Welcome to Cutting Edge. Guests can see and read the contents of most of the boards on this forum but need to become members to read all of them. Currently membership is instant, but new accounts may be deleted if not activated within fourteen days.

If you decide to join the forum, please open your welcome message for further details. New members are requested to introduce themselves on the appropriate thread on our welcome board.

Members may post messages and start threads, but it is essential that they read our posting rules and advice before doing so. If you have any immediate questions or queries, please post them on the suggestions board.

After posting at least ten messages, members are able to contact each other and the staff through our personal messaging system.

This forum is administrated by Ivan and moonbeam and moderated by boatlady and astradt1.

Thank you for visiting Cutting Edge.

Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Page 1 of 5 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by sickchip on Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:04 pm

In recent times Tories have been branded as being arrogant posh boys out of their depth. Andrew Mitchell's recent confrontation with a policeman, and the comments he allegedly made, seem to bear this out - despite Cameron's desperate attempts to rescue the Tories image from being tarnished by the occasion.

Their policies, and particularly those they target/punish via cutbacks, seem to bear the notion of class elitism out. They persistently punish the poor, and most vulnerable, with no regard for the hardship and impossible circumstances they place them in - on the other hand they continue rewarding the rich with ever more opportunities to avoid tax, get richer, etc.

It is the Tories who are responsible for waging a 'class war'.

Mitchell's outburst should not be dismissed as a 'fit of pique', temper, etc.......it was the mask slipping to reveal the odious nature of those currently governing us.
avatar
sickchip

Posts : 1152
Join date : 2011-10-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:34 pm

"Mitchell's outburst should not be dismissed as a 'fit of pique', temper, etc.......it was the mask slipping to reveal the odious nature of those currently governing us."

The nail is hit on the head. As Mitchell should be - preferably by a police baton.

But it could just as easily have been Gove, Pickles, Hunt, Lansley or any of the other many despicable creeps that currently infest the Tory Party...

avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3955
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Adele Carlyon on Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:41 pm

They are the landed gentry, they are arrogant and above all else they are nasty, and they don't care who knows it! We'll all get along famously as long as we remember to doff our caps to them and scrape the mud off their boots!
avatar
Adele Carlyon

Posts : 412
Join date : 2012-04-13
Location : Wigan, Lancs

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Tosh on Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:26 pm

I feel as if I am reading a " Ripping Yarns " sketch, I didn't realise people still spoke about class wars and the landed gentry.
avatar
Tosh

Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by bobby on Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:26 pm

An apology seems to be the answer to all the shit done by the Tories (this includes Clegg). No matter what disgraceful act they perpetrate, The first thing Herr Cameron is heard to say is “He/She apologised”, so if or when I run the bastards down with my car when they are cycling, all I have to do is say sorry, and I will be allowed to continue on my journey, I don’t think so, my feet wouldn’t touch the ground as I was dragged off to Scotland Yard. The reason he has not been nicked already is that his filthy Tory mates are busying themselves trying to keep the vile mouthed git free. This is absolute proof of one law for them and another for us.

I totally agree with all sickchip has said.
avatar
bobby

Posts : 1939
Join date : 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Tosh on Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:30 pm

I totally agree with all sickchip has said..

You better, this a glorified communist forum. Very Happy
avatar
Tosh

Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by bobby on Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:45 pm

hohohohohohohohohohohoho, you are so funny, I allmost laughed.
avatar
bobby

Posts : 1939
Join date : 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by sickchip on Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:04 pm

Tosh wrote:I didn't realise people still spoke about class wars and the landed gentry.

....as I said, Tosh - it is the tories (and nobody else) who are the ones waging a class war....they have an unhealthy obsession with kicking the poor and less fortunate.

Only a short-sighted monkey, who'd bumped his head whilst falling from a tree after missing a branch and clutching at air, would fail to see that. Smile
avatar
sickchip

Posts : 1152
Join date : 2011-10-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Tosh on Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:24 pm

as I said, Tosh - it is the tories (and nobody else) who are the ones waging a class war....they have an unhealthy obsession with kicking the poor and less fortunate.


Let us assume for a moment this is true, can you provide a reason why they would wish to kick the poor and less fortunate ?

I very much doubt the landed gentry and the aristocracy need the money for themselves.

A rational explanation would help me understand your unhealhy obsession with a political party that would be considered left wing socialist in America.
avatar
Tosh

Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by sickchip on Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:40 pm

What makes you think the main motive is money, tosh?

I would imagine 'control' and maintaining the 'order of things' as they stand are the main motives. It's about keeping the 'oiks'/'plebs' in their place. This is being done by stifling opportunities for social mobility (such as recent tory education proposals, and university costs show), and ensuring the masses have less disposable income as inflation (food/utility bills/fuel) rises; and making people fearful through debt.....a tactic introduced by 80's tories.

They might not particularly need the money, tosh - but they don't want us 'orrible plebs any closer to them. That is why the tories wage war on the masses, tosh - to ensure we never get to play on the same playing field.
avatar
sickchip

Posts : 1152
Join date : 2011-10-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by astradt1 on Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:45 pm

Perhaps we should separate out landed gentry and aristocracy from the Tories.........

If you look at the Tory Parliamentary Party many are millionaire but they are not landed gentry or real Aristos ....

No, some like Cameron, are ascendants of some royal's fling or given the title due to working for the monarch of the time or are the offspring of a past industrialist who gave money to a political party....... nouveau riche of their time...

Real Aristo's are unlikely to worry about their wealth or status but New titles want them to be used and remembered.....

It's a bit like when I was nursing, in the Forces, I found Lieutenants, Captains and some Majors were very conscious of their ranks but Colonels and above tended not to worry about it.........
avatar
astradt1
Moderator

Posts : 961
Join date : 2011-10-08
Age : 62
Location : East Midlands

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Tosh on Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:46 pm

What makes you think the main motive is money, tosh?

I don't , this is why I removed it from the question.

I would imagine 'control' and maintaining the 'order of things' as they stand are the main motives. It's about keeping the 'oiks'/'plebs' in their place. This is being done by stifling opportunities for social mobility (such as recent tory education proposals, and university costs show), and ensuring the masses have less disposable income as inflation (food/utility bills/fuel) rises; and making people fearful through debt.....a tactic introduced by 80's tories.

I would imagine keeping the unwashed masses comfortable would be a more obvious way of controlling them and maintaining the status quo.
Reducing disposable income in a country that is largely dependant on the service sector and up to its neck in personal debt, is an irrational explanation, especially since most of this personal debt was run up during 13 " boom " years of Labour, when there was no shortage of disposable income.

They might not particularly need the money, tosh - but they don't want us 'orrible plebs any closer to them. That is why the tories wage war on the masses, tosh - to ensure we never get to play on the same playing field..

mmm, your reasons are not persuading me, maybe they are motivated by more rational reasons that you have not considered ?


Last edited by Tosh on Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Tosh

Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Redflag on Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:51 pm

Tosh wrote:
I totally agree with all sickchip has said..

You better, this a glorified communist forum. Very Happy

If you do not like this forum FCUK OFF, otherwise ZIP IT.
avatar
Redflag
Deactivated

Posts : 4282
Join date : 2011-12-31

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Sep 22, 2012 7:20 pm

Do the Tories really view the majority of us as being plebs?

Yes, of course they do. They believe in their divine right to rule. The evidence is not hard to find. Just look at the sorry tale of John Major's sleaze-ridden administration, during which they came to imagine they could walk on water.

The response of the Government Chief Whip to a Policeman's directions this week are a mirror of the Master of the Hunt dealing with a Filthy Sab.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11836
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Ivan on Sat Sep 22, 2012 10:17 pm

Mitchell's outburst should not be dismissed as a 'fit of pique', temper, etc.......it was the mask slipping to reveal the odious nature of those currently governing us..
Excellent opening posting from sickchip, spot on! Very Happy

Just look at the sorry tale of John Major's sleaze-ridden administration, during which they came to imagine they could walk on water.
It might be an opportune moment to revisit this:-
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]


avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 7099
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Tosh on Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:06 am

If you do not like this forum FCUK OFF, otherwise ZIP IT..

Calm down you nitwit, you will get yourself suspended for breaching the CoC, are you wearing a beret and a goatie beard, comrade ?


LMAO.
avatar
Tosh

Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by blueturando on Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:50 pm

Do Labour really view the majority of us as being Bigots?

You see how absurd this sounds, but if you're going make absurd statements based on one comment, then we could also say the same about our former Prime Ministers comment regarding a questions posed to him from a 'Working Class' Labour voter.

So it was Labour who was responsible for starting a 'Class war'

blueturando
Banned

Posts : 1203
Join date : 2011-11-21
Age : 50
Location : Jersey CI

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Ivan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:47 am

blueturando. This thread is about “the Tories”, as in those in power. It doesn’t suggest that “Tories”, as in all Tory voters, see the majority of the population as plebs. And it isn’t just based on one remark. From day one, Cameron has surrounded himself with Etonians, Bullingdon Club boys and multimillionaires. The policies being pursued – such as £40k tax cuts for millionaires and VAT increases and job or benefit cuts for everyone else – show what the Tories in the government think of us. So does Duncan Smith’s disgusting remark that Remploy workers just sit around drinking coffee all day.

This article by Amanda Platell sums up the current governing elite:-
[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

In my opinion, the most significant thing about Mitchell's outburst was not his swearing but his "know your place" remark. How many people do you know who would even think along those lines? I do remember a few years ago how Charles Windsor remarked that one of his employees was “getting above her station” when she asked for promotion, but I suppose that’s to be expected from someone who thinks that accident of birth makes him more important than the rest of us.

Gordon Brown was recorded in private (by the Murdoch media - how surprising!) referring to Gillian Duffy as “a bigot” because she’d been making derogatory remarks about immigration. He no doubt concluded that she was a racist. You’re not comparing like with like.

avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 7099
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by sickchip on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:02 am

Excellent post, Ivan.
avatar
sickchip

Posts : 1152
Join date : 2011-10-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by methought on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:43 am

Unfortunately the Tories consider they are better people if they are rich people and the less work they have to do to keep their money the better people they see themselves as being. It isn't about class any longer, but it is about employing people who do their bidding, i.e. about power.

If we take out status and focus on role it is easier to see how empty these claims for status actually are, and the fear which the people holding the purse strings feel for the people they can withhold decent wages from.

Nationalized industry was supposed to end this notion but the workers didn't appreciate that the books still needed to be balanced, and couldn't see the fair play aspect that lost Labour the election back in Scargill days.

Miners' wages were a lot higher than other workers received and the politics of envy meant the rest of the workers weren't feeling 'all in it together'. How anyone fell for that particular Tory mantra is completely beyond me, but it must have worked, better than the message that Gordon had learned some hard lessons from the experience of leading the country at a time when the global debt economy was playing into the hands of a few rich dynasties across the world.

If anyone has a better economics system to offer - the world is listening... Currently Keynesian expansion is the best that can be done by our sovereign economy, to buffer us from the national debt crisis, and we need a lot more of it too.
avatar
methought

Posts : 173
Join date : 2012-09-20

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:46 am

Keynesian expansion is code for "borrow and spend", which is the mantra that Tories always bray at any Labour Chancellor, so not something Gideon is likely to try in the short term. (Well actually he is doing it now, but calls it something different).

There is nothing intrinsically wrong in borrowing money at x% if you can make a profit of x% + y out of the deal. That's how the "Private Capital" asset-strippers work, often by purchasing a Company with its own earnings over a period of time.

In the current uncertainty however, many profitable companies are reluctant to take any chances, so are sitting on a pile of past income, in case the economy falls even further - or there are unforeseeable tax increases.

If HM Treasury needs a quick fix, they could do worse than slap a windfall tax on any income described as a "bonus".
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11836
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by bobby on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:18 pm

Mitchell has stated, 'I did not use the words attributed to me' and perhaps he didn't, but if that is the case, the policemen (plural) that heard him and entered it into their notebooks, should be arrested and dealt with through the courts. As soon as a copper writes something down in his/her note book it becomes evidence. On the other hand if the written evidence is correct, then it must be Mitchell who is lieing, So who is lieing the coppers of which more than one is said to have heard Mitchells outburst, or Mitchell himself. Either way both sides now need to be investigated, then the wrongdoer/s should be nicked and fired from their jobs, as we can not have disshonest police or dishonest polititians.
avatar
bobby

Posts : 1939
Join date : 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Adele Carlyon on Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:44 pm

Totally agree Bobby! One or the other is lying, it's not rocket science to figure that out.

I must admit that the bit that irked me the most, if indeed it is true, is the "know your place" comment. If true, that really does sum up what were up against here.
avatar
Adele Carlyon

Posts : 412
Join date : 2012-04-13
Location : Wigan, Lancs

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:15 pm

If this item is still News on Friday of this week, Flashman's toes will be the ones being toasted at the fire.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11836
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by bobby on Mon Sep 24, 2012 2:47 pm

OW said: If this item is still News on Friday of this week, Flashman's toes will be the ones being toasted at the fire.

Thankfully it seems like it will be Mitchell himself, who will keep it in the news. The more he denys he said anything the longer it will remain newsworthy. The stupid Bastard is shooting himself and Herr Cameron in the foot with just one bullet.
avatar
bobby

Posts : 1939
Join date : 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Adele Carlyon on Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:06 pm

I've been chatting with a friend of mine who is a police constable, and I asked him if the police were gonna keep up the pressure on Mitchell, to which he replied "you can bet your life on it" so maybe he will be for the chop.
avatar
Adele Carlyon

Posts : 412
Join date : 2012-04-13
Location : Wigan, Lancs

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Ivan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:20 pm

Is it one law for those Tory toffs who think they are born to rule, and one for the rest of us? If there was any consistency, not only would Mitchell be out of a job but he'd be in jail.

"18-year-old in Manchester was jailed for four months for 'ranting and swearing' at police."

"38-year-old man was jailed for 10 weeks for swearing at police."

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]



avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 7099
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Adele Carlyon on Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:06 pm

I asked him would I had done the same thing would I have been arrested. "More than likely" was his reply Ivan. It is one law for them and one for us.
avatar
Adele Carlyon

Posts : 412
Join date : 2012-04-13
Location : Wigan, Lancs

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by bobby on Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:27 pm

Adele, or is it many Laws for us and none for them?
avatar
bobby

Posts : 1939
Join date : 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Tosh on Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:35 pm

Is calling someone a " Toff " any less offensive than a " pleb " ?

avatar
Tosh

Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Tosh on Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:38 pm

Never vote for anyone who denies they are in politics for their own personal gain.



avatar
Tosh

Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:11 pm

Cameron Gets Toff ...er...Tough With Mitchell

[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.](msn)

" You made a serious error of judgement, Andrew : it's the general public who are 'plebs' - the police are 'bastards' ..."
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3955
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by sickchip on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:24 pm

The tories are playing a dangerous game upsetting the police.

They depend on the police to protect them, and their kind, against us unhappy plebs who choose to demonstrate/march etc.

Maybe letting the police know they see them in the same light as the masses will encourage the police to take a lighter approach to handling future demos/marches/political protest.........the police might even turn a blind eye and allow the angry plebs to get much much closer to Cameron and his fellow toffs.

An own goal by the arrogant tories?
avatar
sickchip

Posts : 1152
Join date : 2011-10-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:50 pm

An own goal by the arrogant tories?

Watch out for another Micahel Winner film on the subject - Death Wish 2012
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11836
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by sickchip on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:58 pm

I do wonder if PC Pleb will be so eager to do his utmost to protect these tory toffs from his fellow plebs - the general public, now?
avatar
sickchip

Posts : 1152
Join date : 2011-10-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Adele Carlyon on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:38 pm

Yes Bobby, you're right! And here was me thinking that everyone is born equal, but some of us are more equal than others eh?
avatar
Adele Carlyon

Posts : 412
Join date : 2012-04-13
Location : Wigan, Lancs

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Tosh on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:51 pm

Yes Bobby, you're right! And here was me thinking that everyone is born equal, but some of us are more equal than others eh?

Nobody with a functioning brain believes everyone is born equal, the best we can do is to create an environment of equal opportunity, equal rights, equal responsibilities and manage with compassion the inevitable unequal outcomes.

The beauty of human nature lies in its unpredictability.

avatar
Tosh

Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by sickchip on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:53 pm

the best we can do is to create a system with equal opportunity, equal rights, equal responsibilities and manage with compassion the inevitable unequal outcomes.

....best get rid of the Tories then!
avatar
sickchip

Posts : 1152
Join date : 2011-10-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Tosh on Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:58 pm



....best get rid of the Tories then! .

....because Labour closed the gap between the richest and the poorest in 13 years of power ?
avatar
Tosh

Posts : 2270
Join date : 2012-08-15

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Ivan on Mon Sep 24, 2012 9:15 pm

Tosh. Under Labour, the poorest became richer but the richest became even richer. Under the Tories, the poorest are getting poorer but the rich are still getting richer - thanks to the policies being implemented (job losses, benefit cuts and a VAT rise, alongside £40k per annum tax cuts for millionaires).

I thought you were supposed to be an SNP supporter, but you come across more as a closet Tory.

avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 7099
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Do the Tories really view the majority of us as 'plebs'?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 5 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum