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West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

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West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Adele Carlyon on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:13 pm

I was just wondering how many midwives you could train and employ with 40 million pounds?

Apparently the government "got their sums wrong".  Do they try hard at being as thick as two short planks, or does it just come naturally? They're forcing austerity on the poorest and then wasting 40 million because the transport budget couldn't stretch to a couple of calculators! Dearie Me!  Evil or Very Mad
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by bobby on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:38 pm

Hello Adele, and of course they are blaming the civil servants, like all else thats gone tits up, its nothing to do with them.
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Adele Carlyon on Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:54 pm

Hi Bobby. It makes me feel totally sick! The sooner these cretins are gone the better.
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Tosh on Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:09 pm

All governments, civil servants and nationalised industries waste money, its not theirs after all, once you remove the profit motive and self interest it results in economic apathy.
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:48 pm

The original privatisation of British Rail during the reign of John Major was in so many ways a dog's dinner, because no investor could have hoped for a return on their money. Hence all the horlicks about franchises and Railtrack and taxpayer's subsidies to the shareholders.

There is a pleasing irony in the return of this continuing rail-crash to bite its Tory originators on the bum.
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by boatlady on Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:59 pm

Time to re-nationalise the railways?
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Adele Carlyon on Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:07 pm

If only!
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by blueturando on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:50 pm

There were no errors made here, just a few greasing of palms to get the gig.
Unfortunately for Department of Transport and Justine Greening, they didn't factor in Branson taking them to court where their double dealing would have been exposed. So now we have 3 civil servants who will probably be paid off handsomly to take the fall

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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:20 pm

blueturando wrote:There were no errors made here, just a few greasing of palms to get the gig.
Unfortunately for Department of Transport and Justine Greening, they didn't factor in Branson taking them to court where their double dealing would have been exposed. So now we have 3 civil servants who will probably be paid off handsomly to take the fall

".... they didn't factor in Branson taking them to court where their double dealing would have been exposed."

They really should have, Branson took a lot of money off British Airways when he was able to prove that they had conspired to divert his passengers.
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Tosh on Wed Oct 03, 2012 10:55 pm

If civil servants cannot run a bidding process efficiently then I doubt they can run a railine efficiently.

Please stop promoting nationalisation as a solution to all evils, history has proven otherwise.



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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Redflag on Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:58 am

bobby wrote:Hello Adele, and of course they are blaming the civil servants, like all else thats gone tits up, its nothing to do with them.

Hi bobby, you should know by now they never blame themselves Hunt should have gone so should Mitchell but heres the rub by the time he sacked his cabinet over all of the blunders they make, there would not be one left to fill the cabinet posts. lol! lol! lol!
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:58 pm

The least competent administration in modern history was always going to blame civil servants, the tide tables, post equinox weather and the previous government, for anything which went wrong. It couldn't possibly have been the inevitable result of a botched privatisation. Or, as it was described in 1993, The Poll Tax on Wheels.
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Tosh on Thu Oct 04, 2012 2:36 pm

The least competent administration in modern history

mmmm, ok, if you say so.

Seems a tad over the top but who am I to disagree with a higher intellect. Very Happy
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:34 pm

Oh, I don't know, Tosh ........... Embarassed

Would you like to list Cameron's successes ?
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Tosh on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:29 pm

Would you like to list Cameron's successes ?.

Libya as against Iraq.

Bond yields-low interest rates--AAA credit rating versus Financial meltdown of the banking industry.

Getting long term welfare claimants back to work versus 1 million Polish immigrants driving down pay and conditions.

Cuts in the defence budget versus 2 aircraft carriers with no aircraft.

Olympics versus Millenium Celebrations.

I would prefer all goverments to do as little as possible, then they cannot screw up.

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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Adele Carlyon on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:38 pm

That'll take all of 0.00000000000000001 seconds OW!
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Redflag on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:38 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Oh, I don't know, Tosh ........... Embarassed

Would you like to list Cameron's successes ?

That would consist of a A4 sheet of BLANK PAPER. cheers
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Adele Carlyon on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:56 pm

haha! Spot on! cheers
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by tlttf on Thu Oct 04, 2012 6:47 pm

Total fiasco the West Coast railway. Not quite as bad as the Glasgow railway upgrade that ran from 1998-2008 at a cost of 9 billion when the original quote was 2 billion and we won't talk about the NHS super computer.

It simply highlights the reason why we need less government interference in contracts. Why don't they simply place safeguards within the system so that Joe public doesn't pay for the screwups and let private enterprise get on with it?

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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Tosh on Thu Oct 04, 2012 7:19 pm

The Tories biggest failure todate has to be Paul McCartney screeching " Hey Jude " for 9 minutes, if there was a civil servant listening at the rehearsals then he should be stoned to death.
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Redflag on Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:01 pm

tlttf wrote:Total fiasco the West Coast railway. Not quite as bad as the Glasgow railway upgrade that ran from 1998-2008 at a cost of 9 billion when the original quote was 2 billion and we won't talk about the NHS super computer.

It simply highlights the reason why we need less government interference in contracts. Why don't they simply place safeguards within the system so that Joe public doesn't pay for the screwups and let private enterprise get on with it?

I see your still willing to go over the Labour party mistakes but not so bloody keen to mention all the mistakes of the Tories and there scandals, so next time before you start casting up Labour faults and mistake just be ready for the Tory mistakes and scandals to follow in the next post tittf. lol!
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Tosh on Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:11 pm

It simply highlights the reason why we need less government interference in contracts. Why don't they simply place safeguards within the system so that Joe public doesn't pay for the screwups and let private enterprise get on with it?

Redflag dearest, which part of this statement do you not comprehend

His complaint is mine, all governments regardless of their politics screw up when it involves spending tax payers money. Providing further examples of screw ups merely demonstrates our point and proves our case.

God bless you.



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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Redflag on Thu Oct 04, 2012 8:26 pm

Tosh wrote:
It simply highlights the reason why we need less government interference in contracts. Why don't they simply place safeguards within the system so that Joe public doesn't pay for the screwups and let private enterprise get on with it?

Redflag dearest, which part of this statement do you not comprehend

His complaint is mine, all governments regardless of their politics screw up when it involves spending tax payers money. Providing further examples of screw ups merely demonstrates our point and proves our case.

God bless you.




So why are you sticking up for a gov't that thinks its OK to make the low paid and vulnerable pay for the CASINO bankers while giving the Millionaires a tax break of £40.000 per year. Thanks for the God Bless me as the Tories do not give too fcuks for anybody but themselves.
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Tosh on Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:22 pm

So why are you sticking up for a gov't that thinks its OK to make the low paid and vulnerable pay for the CASINO bankers while giving the Millionaires a tax break of £40.000 per year.

To be honest I stick up for policies that I consider to be rational, fair and cost effective, I am not interested in party politics, I believe it died at the end of the 20th century. The right and left wing ideologues refuse to accept the vast majority want a regulated capitalist system with a robust and efficient welfare state.

The right/left debate is over, and you both lost, we want administrators not heroes.

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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:41 pm

"The right/left debate is over, and you both lost...."
Politics has always produced winners and losers. The Right/Left definitions are largely an invention to make Press reports more concise.

There will be no improvement as long as "tradition" holds sway over modernisation because the obvious change from delegates to universal plebiscite using the internet, will not take place while MPs stand to lose their purpose and income.

Nor is there likely to be a rapid resolution to the West Coast Line fiasco, since two enquiries have already been launched, not to mention the evident fact that the entire 1993 privatisation of British Rail may have to be revisited.

What larks!
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Tosh on Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:27 pm

The country has lost its blind faith in politics and politicians, they have woken up to the fact that see-saw politics is an inefficient and expensive system to govern a nation. The country is saying at the ballot box they want consensus politics, they want coalitions and all supporters of the main parties better get used to this new paradigm. The status quo have blocked the German style of PR because it always leads to coalitions and consensus politics....but the British public got there anyway using the outdated first past the post system.

Its over but you just don't realise it, it would not surprise me if coalitions becomes the norm, and an overall majority a rarity.


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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Redflag on Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:20 am

Tosh wrote:
So why are you sticking up for a gov't that thinks its OK to make the low paid and vulnerable pay for the CASINO bankers while giving the Millionaires a tax break of £40.000 per year.

To be honest I stick up for policies that I consider to be rational, fair and cost effective, I am not interested in party politics, I believe it died at the end of the 20th century. The right and left wing ideologues refuse to accept the vast majority want a regulated capitalist system with a robust and efficient welfare state.

The right/left debate is over, and you both lost, we want administrators not heroes.


It sounds like you are all for capitalism, and to hell with the rest of us let them rob us blind as they did when we the tax payer had to bail out the bankers in 2008, or maybe you think we should bail all of the capitalists when they get THEMSELVES in trouble.
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Tosh on Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:00 am

It sounds like you are all for capitalism, and to hell with the rest of us let them rob us blind as they did when we the tax payer had to bail out the bankers in 2008, or maybe you think we should bail all of the capitalists when they get THEMSELVES in trouble..

Please please read my post again, I clearly state " regulated capitalism " and" a robust welfare state ". I object to bailing out any business that is too big to fail but lets not kid ourselves, this country's expansion of the public sector was financed by the taxes from casino banking, the cheap mortgages and easy credit was possible due to the banking industry. The City contributedto nearly 25% of all tax proceeds, it was our biggest earning industry, the envy of the world and we got stung after 10 years of profit making.

I am a realist, globalisation means clever people with clever ideas just don't get rich they get very rich, because these ideas leave our tiny market and go global. The plus side is global good ideas employ more people than tiny island good ideas, and that is the exchange. Like you I expect the very wealthy to pay tax and want all loop holes closed and a mansion tax.

Ed's speech was vacuous tripe for the party faithful, devoid of real content, what content there was, was false. Millionaires were paying 100k per year more tax under the Tories than Labour, the tax cuts will reduce this by 40k to 60k.
As for the government writing them a cheque for 40k, hold on a minute, this assumes all our earnings are the property of the government, it is the other way round, we earn all the money and attribute a portion to government.

I do not want clever people with good ideas to take these ideas to a country with a fairer tax system, these people create sustainable jobs and sustainable taxes.

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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:44 am

"Ed's speech was vacuous tripe for the party faithful, devoid of real content...."

Or to put another way, carefully avoided giving hostages to fortune by disclosing opposition plans for the next General Election, in 2015.
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Redflag on Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:12 pm

oftenwrong wrote:"Ed's speech was vacuous tripe for the party faithful, devoid of real content...."

Or to put another way, carefully avoided giving hostages to fortune by disclosing opposition plans for the next General Election, in 2015.

You have hit the nail on the head with that one OW, Scam..er..on needs to get ideas from some where as he nor his MPs have got a FCUKING CLUE themselves, that is because there brains are some where in there Groin Area. cheers
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Tosh on Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:50 pm

Or to put another way, carefully avoided giving hostages to fortune by disclosing opposition plans for the next General Election, in 2015..

Assuming he has plans without evidence requires faith, sorry but Ed is not God.

Why does he not state which unpopular Tory policies he intends to reverse, such as NHS reforms ?
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Ivan on Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:59 pm

The Labour Party (in the form of Andy Burnham) has stated categorically that the NHS Act will be repealed. I believe it to be Labour policy to renationalise the railways, but I'll have to look that up.

Was Cameron acting as God when he had only two policies at a similar time in the last parliament - to cut IHT (mainly to the benefit of millionaires) and to legalise foxhunting? Interestingly, neither policy has been implemented. Oh, and I nearly forgot, wasn't there a "cast iron" guarantee on a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty?
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Tosh on Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:04 pm

Ivan,

Quoting David Camron is wasted on me, I wouldn't vote a Conservative into power if the opposition was Michael Foot and Clement Freud.

Can you provide me a link confirming this manifesto committment ?
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:40 pm

Nothing is too much trouble for other people. I remember Cameron's "cast iron" commitment being made around the time of the Lisbon Treaty being signed in conditions of solitary attendance by our PM of the day.

Perhaps you were too busy stepping over homeless indigents upon leaving the Opera, when the Cameron commitment was delivered to a hushed and expectant Public.
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Tosh on Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:02 pm

Nothing is too much trouble for other people. I remember Cameron's "cast iron" commitment being made around the time of the Lisbon Treaty being signed in conditions of solitary attendance by our PM of the day.

So do I, I was referring to Andy's pledge. Question

Perhaps you were too busy stepping over homeless indigents upon leaving the Opera, when the Cameron commitment was delivered to a hushed and expectant Public..

I would not step over a homeless indigent. Twisted Evil
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Phil Hornby on Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:25 pm

Savile's Travails



" The age of my train was 14 years, which , coincidentally, was also the age of the girl I just groped..."
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Tosh on Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:22 pm

I actually remember some rumour about him being a bit of a Benny Hill with young girls in the 70s, didn't realise they were that young.
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:37 pm

More years ago than I care to remember I had a girlfriend who casually mentioned in conversation that she, when younger, had been on a door-list at Broadcasting House which admitted her to the BBC Radio One studio while DJs were broadcasting, late at night.

British libel law being as it is, I have no intention of ever repeating the names of DJs she mentioned, but I do hope that the BBC will not adopt a "holier than thou" attitude if there is now to be a Police Enquiry.

Now what were we talking about before the Revd. Hornby subtly advertised the family business ....?
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by Redflag on Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:48 am

oftenwrong wrote:Nothing is too much trouble for other people. I remember Cameron's "cast iron" commitment being made around the time of the Lisbon Treaty being signed in conditions of solitary attendance by our PM of the day.

Perhaps you were too busy stepping over homeless indigents upon leaving the Opera, when the Cameron commitment was delivered to a hushed and expectant Public.

He made a lot more "cast iron" commitments before the last election and just look what has happened to them "gone with a puff of smoke" as soon as he got into power.
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Re: West Coast mainline fiasco and Tory handling of our railways

Post by bobby on Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:48 am

At the Labour Party Conference, Ed Miliband also stated he would repeal NHS reforms.
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