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So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

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So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Boudica on Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:41 pm

First topic message reminder :

Having given the topic some serious consideration, I have no idea why the religious hate each other and the irreligious. And vice versa, of course.

Despite being collective worship coordinator at my secondary school, I am an athiest. Not proudly so, I might add - I just don't have faith in a deity or multiples thereof. Having said that, I have no issue with anyone who does. Harnessed in the right way, it can be an astonishing force for good.

I suspect the umbrella I would fall under is humanist, although I have never chosen a banner for myself. I believe in people: the family and friends around me; my students and colleagues; members of the human race in general.

The thing I object to is the evangelising fraternity who,when I politely reject their view of the universe, choose to label me as ... well, all sort of insulting and unfair nonsense. At this stage, please believe that I find Richard Dawkins as irritating as any ayalloah, church elder or priest.

Ultimately, if your religion fascilitates your ability to be a good, kind and humane person, brilliant. If you can be the same without a god, more power to your elbow.

So why can't we leave each other to get on with it?
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by polyglide on Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:05 pm

You need common sense and the powers of reasoning to appreciate the difference between intelligent debate and idiotic comments and sady, sadly, sadly, you are adept at the silly comments but devoid of the others.

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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:26 pm

You need common sense and the powers of reasoning to appreciate the difference between intelligent debate and idiotic comments and sady, sadly, sadly, you are adept at the silly comments but devoid of the others. .

Oh really, ok, prove evolution is false.


29+ Evidences for Macroevolution
The Scientific Case for Common Descent

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

I will wait here. Basketball
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:07 pm

The Process of Evolution
Statement of Scientific Understanding
Summary Statement
All living beings have developed over time from ancestors through a series of changes. That life has evolved over long periods of time, with all forms of life related to one another, is a scientifically well-established fact. Along with researchers throughout the world, scientists at the Smithsonian’s National Museum of Natural History have contributed significantly to understanding the patterns and processes of evolution in humans and other species of animals and plants.

As one of the world’s leading research museums, the National Museum of Natural History has the responsibility to share with the public the latest research on the process of evolution. It is not the Museum’s responsibility or intent to determine how visitors relate this information to their own religious or personal views.

The Science of Evolution
In informal language, the word “theory” often implies an idea without much factual substantiation. But a “scientific theory” is different: Based on repeated observations, experiments, measurements and discoveries, a scientific theory represents the most logical and best-tested available explanation for natural phenomena. A scientific theory examines and explains why and how specific natural phenomena occur – for example, why there are differences among species, how lineages of species have changed over time and how species are related to each other.

Evolutionary theory provides a logical framework for making sense of the great diversity of organisms on earth—for understanding both differences and similarities among them. For example, the theory of evolution (sometimes referred to as descent with modification) helps explain three distinct patterns that we see in the world around us:

1.The diversity of life (biodiversity)—there are millions of different kinds of organisms and life forms, and millions have existed for varying lengths of time during Earth’s long history
2.The similarity of life—even species that look very different and are only remotely related share remarkable aspects of anatomy and molecular chemistry, such as DNA shared by nearly all life forms
3.The history of life—fossilized remains of ancient organisms found embedded in successive layers of rock of different ages show many sequential, step-like changes that have occurred over more than three billion years
Evolution is not a matter of mere chance or random change. It is shaped by the process of genetic change, the production and survival of new adaptations and organisms, changes in the frequency of genetic variations, and results in the wide variety of ways in which organisms adapt to and survive in their diverse and changing surroundings. Genetic variation—amply documented in nature—is the raw material for how living beings change.

Scientists have learned how humans have developed over time from examining fossil remains of earlier humans, archeological finds, and the evidence of genetics. All of the resulting information supports the idea that humans have emerged by a process of change over time, and that humans are related to all other lifeforms.

Although there is no scientific controversy about the fact that evolution occurs, our understanding of the details progresses as scientists continue to learn more from combined geological, morphological, and molecular data. Continued research has filled in many of the earlier gaps in the explanation of evolution; for example, many of the gaps in the fossil record have now been filled in by new discoveries. Today’s rapidly increasing understanding of molecular biology and genetics also now provides a much more complete understanding of the evolutionary process.
28 August 2007

http://www.mnh.si.edu/press_office/statements/evolution.htm


When polyglide breaks out again, can someone ask her to explain why these scientists do not share her common sense ?
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:11 pm

It's darn sight better than endlessly repeating other people for lack of an original thought of your own.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:21 pm

It's darn sight better than endlessly repeating other people for lack of an original thought of your own..

You mean like original thoughts from the Bible ....lol, just priceless.

This is hilarious coming from someone who posts famous quotes like a verbal tic.

Original thought that contradicts incontrovertible evidence is called a delusion, something you are a veritable expert on.

Any time you feel brave enough to discuss evolution with me cupcake then step up to the plate, we will see how successful your original thought is against my evidence based opinions.

p.s. Is that why you have just posted a philosophical extract on the other thread without one single original thought......lolol.

You are unbelievably dense.....for a sage.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:53 pm

People do not seem to understand natural selection, it does not purposely select the fittest genes nor purposely kill the weakest genes. Nature isn't directing evolution, evolution is an inevitable outcome of environmental pressure, these pressures can end variations or encourage variation.

It is the environment that dictates survival, a product of a mindless undirected process. We don't know if the universe has a purpose but we know it cannot involve us, this begs the question why we believe it has a purpose in the first place ?

Do we see wind shaping rocks as having a possible purpose, the answer is no because purpose has to do with life and natural selection renders purpose as highly highly improbable. Theistic evolution is complete garbage, anyone who understands natural selection knows this.

There have to be limits to what is probable, I do not believe a being is directing every inch of the climate to effect every genetic variation knowing full well the outcome, its just bloody ludicrous, if it can do all of these things then it can just as well create life as per Genesis and save a lot of time and suffering.

Darwin did not discover evolution, Darwin discovered natural selection, when people say Darwin killed God they mean Natural Selection killed God.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Jsmythe on Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:06 pm

We have in many ways tried to define God;picking holes here and there,trying to make sense of something seemingly impossible. Not one man or women has yet been able to define what 'Natural' actually is.

Natural has been accepted to be the baseline ruler for measuring apparent impossibilities.If we do not understand why Natural is the way it is in the first place then Natural is itself an unknown phenomenon.

Would it be fair to say that Natural selection follows a particular pattern which is by perspective - 'logical' - in the sense of altering or assisting life to exist in what ever environment?
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:46 pm

Would it be fair to say that Natural selection follows a particular pattern which is by perspective - 'logical' - in the sense of altering or assisting life to exist in what ever environment? .

Looking back in hindsight is not evidence of foresight.

I think it is fair to say the outcome of natural selection is logical if one is a mindless eugenics sadist, a cross between Machiavelli and Mengele. 95% of species that have ever existed are now extinct, evolution with foresight may not seem too logical to the losers of this natural lottery. One must remember, the outcome of natural selection may not be random but the necessary genetic mutations and environmental pressures are.
Genetic mutations have no survival advantage until they are needed, most mutations are not needed and are discarded, life in an unchanging environment is not complex life, it is sludge.

To suggest genetic mutation may have a designed purpose or a will to live is nothing but cognitive bias.

It seems you see nature and the natural as potential agents of purpose, organic and inorganic tango partners dovetailing in harmony, almost supernatural one might say, now where have I heard that before ?
Life needs a certain type of environment to start and survive, without these conditions no genetic mutation would save them, there is no whatever environment.


I think logical is not the right description, undirected cause and effect determinism is closer to the evidence.


Last edited by Tosh on Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:09 pm

Where's that smell of socks originating?

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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:45 pm

Where's that smell of socks originating?

The only thing I smell is your fear Walter, just another screaming example of your inability to debate the content, the plate you were invited to step up to is rusting away as fast as your credibility.

Have you noticed more and more posters are commenting on your input, funny that innit ?

lolol. Basketball
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Guest on Fri Nov 16, 2012 12:10 am

.


Last edited by RockOnBrother on Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by snowyflake on Fri Nov 16, 2012 5:58 am

John Locke spoke of natural rights. Eighty-six years later, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, et al. spoke of certain unalienable rights endowed unto all men by their Creator.

Hi Rock. Smile Creator assumes God (Elohim). Perhaps we are assuming too much here. Perhaps 'Creator' is a generic term used by Declaration of Independence signatories to allow for the freedom of thought in regards to belief and non-belief. That the fact that we are here, we are human, endows us with inalienable rights. Perhaps Creator means by any mechanism that the human race has evolved and whatever your belief or non-belief you have inalienable human rights. This would remove the idea of having these rights 'endowed' to you which is the way I prefer to think of inalienable human rights. That is why the UDHR appeals to me because my human rights are innate not 'endowed'.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:07 am

snowyflake wrote:
John Locke spoke of natural rights. Eighty-six years later, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, et al. spoke of certain unalienable rights endowed unto all men by their Creator.

Hi Rock. Smile....the fact that we are here, we are human, endows us with inalienable rights. Perhaps Creator means by any mechanism that the human race has evolved and whatever your belief or non-belief you have inalienable human rights. This would remove the idea of having these rights 'endowed' to you which is the way I prefer to think of inalienable human rights. That is why the UDHR appeals to me because my human rights are innate not 'endowed'.

Which would seem to make the argument Political, rather than religious. "Inalienable rights" are totally reliant upon the goodwill of Men towards each other. e.g. Guantanamo the Godless.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:04 am


Genesis 1. “In the beginning period that God created the heavens and earth (the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the wind of God was hovering over the surface of the waters), God said, ‘Let light be!’”


Texas,

This is not an accurate description of the big bang or the formation of the universe and its contents. Light was created nearly 10 billion years before the earth, according to this tripe God made the universe in the dark ??
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by polyglide on Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:24 am

Come on Tosh, what was light created from?.

I can tell you how the light comes on when I walk into a room and press the switch.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:58 pm

Come on Tosh, what was light created from?.

The Big Bang, which happened before the earth was formed, this makes genesis 1:1 as inaccurate as you.

I can tell you how the light comes on when I walk into a room and press the switch..

Padded rooms have no switches, if you are not in one now then its only a matter of time.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Guest on Fri Nov 16, 2012 4:58 pm

.


Last edited by RockOnBrother on Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by snowyflake on Fri Nov 16, 2012 10:12 pm

Hey Rock Smile

Regardless of constitutions and declarations, I believe that most of the 7 billion human inhabitants of this planet have innate human rights that are inherently based on the fact that we are human. They are not endowed or gifted to us by imaginary beings. They are our rights as humans.

One's human rights stop when it infringes on the human rights of others. My mom used to say you can be free, sweetie, swing your arms as long and as wide as you like but you must stop if you are in danger of hurting anyone else. Now if all humans abided by that simple rule, what a peaceful world we would live in.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by polyglide on Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:39 am

The only time a padded room will be visited by me is to make it ready for you.

Tosh, just when will you come up with something representing common sense and is original and not quoting someone elseall the time gets tedious.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by snowyflake on Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:49 am

Tosh, just when will you come up with something representing common sense and is original and not quoting someone elseall the time gets tedious.

Really polyglide? The 11th commandment...thou shalt not troll.

Again, for a christian you don't exhibit very christian-like qualities. For a contributor to this thread, you don't contribute anything of consequence. You just disagree without proof and then resort to bashing. If you have something to prove, please provide that proof. Just saying Tosh is wrong is not conducive to the debate. Show us your websites, your evidence, your proof that Tosh and the other atheists have got it so collossally wrong.

Otherwise it gets tedious.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by polyglide on Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:22 am

The answer is, as I have said previously, to just put, proof of creation, on your computer and you will have at least 50 examples proving evolution is nonsense and creation can be explained, I am not going to start quoting other peoples work, it is there for all to see and there are far too many too list.


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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by snowyflake on Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:46 am

Yes, I've looked at christian websites that pretend to have 'proof' of creation. There is no proof of creation. Science has adequately debunked the myths of the bible on numerous occasions and has been debunking the bible for hundreds of years now.

I would love for you to trouble yourself and just give me one link to one website that has convinced you that there is proof of creation please? This is not too much to ask.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:14 pm

The answer is, as I have said previously, to just put, proof of creation, on your computer and you will have at least 50 examples proving evolution is nonsense and creation can be explained, I am not going to start quoting other peoples work, it is there for all to see and there are far too many too list.


You are starting to make it too obvious.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:17 pm

Tosh, just when will you come up with something representing common sense and is original and not quoting someone elseall the time gets tedious..

mmmm, indeed young man, sane people consider the scientific consensus is purdy relevant on scientific matters, you do not which makes you backward. Very Happy
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by polyglide on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:55 pm

Sane peple consider all the relevant facts relating to any subject and not pick and choose those that fit their bill.

Creation has not been disproved because it is impossible to do so without an acceptable and provable alternative.

I have asked those who think evolution is the answer to explain how a beehive has honeycombs the shape they are, it is not so long ago that the scientists said it was because it made the best use of the space, the only wast being the wax etc.,

Now all I want is an answer as to where all the round and oblong and square honeycombs are before nature decided on the present shape?

That is just one question, there must be intelligence involved in all creation how anyone can believe that an oak tree was as a result of pure random events is nonsense, as is the case of the life span of a butterfly and all that that entails.

If you believe in evolution then just explain in a step by step method how the oak tree came about and all the intermediate examples, the same for the butterfly, just the two will do but there are millions of other examples.

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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by polyglide on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:04 pm

Sane people consider every aspect of anything under consideration, scientists deal in theories more than anything else and are as often wrong as right.

Some people have shortcomings in the mental department and unfortunately, Tosh, from your posts it would appear a visit to the vets should be undertaken, at the same time as attending to you mantally he may expain the vast amount of intelligence that must be involved in creation.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:29 pm

You better get back before the next headcount. Arrow
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by polyglide on Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:46 pm

Yes , Tosh. I am used to counting the inmates, what I cannot understand is how with your limited intelligence you managed to escape.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:51 pm

Yes , Tosh. I am used to counting the inmates, what I cannot understand is how with your limited intelligence you managed to escape..

Can you run through again your scientific objections to humans evolving from a common ancestor with primates, I haven't had a laugh since our last chat about butterflies.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by polyglide on Mon Nov 26, 2012 3:32 pm

Yes, but I bet you have cried a lot realising your limited intelligencve.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Mon Nov 26, 2012 4:15 pm

Yes, but I bet you have cried a lot realising your limited intelligencve. .

Still waiting for those scientific objections dear, they seem as sparse as your intellect.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by polyglide on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:49 pm

They are only sparse to those like you who are not able to understand anything beyond the yearling stage.

There is help out there you know.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:05 pm

They are only sparse to those like you who are not able to understand anything beyond the yearling stage.

I am still waiting for you to provide the scientific objections, please proceed, you are saying you understand them not me.

tick...tock...tick...tock.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by polyglide on Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:23 pm

Ive been waiting a long time for something sensible from you, I thik the tick will have gone as well as the tock before there is even a glimmer of hope.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Sat Dec 01, 2012 2:21 pm

Ive been waiting a long time for something sensible from you, I thik the tick will have gone as well as the tock before there is even a glimmer of hope..

You keep forgetting to supply your scientific objections to evolution, do you suffer from selective amnesia ?
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by polyglide on Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:14 pm

If you saw a fly crawling up the wall you would not believe it, so why bother trying to make you understand what is more certain than the fly having been created by the means af a maggot and talking of maggots:::
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by snowyflake on Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:07 pm

It's interesting to note that the behaviour of certain Christians on this board doesn't exactly make you want to run to your nearest church and become one does it?
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by Tosh on Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:17 pm

If you saw a fly crawling up the wall you would not believe it, so why bother trying to make you understand what is more certain than the fly having been created by the means af a maggot and talking of maggots:::.

I do not believe this post contains any scientific objections to Common Descent.

Try again.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by polyglide on Sat Dec 08, 2012 11:48 am

Tosh you ask for all you get, try being kind and others may follow, you must know by now you can be so easily be put down that you are way out of your depth.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by snowyflake on Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:21 pm

Tosh has provided evidence for everything he claims. Polyglide does not. Polyglide makes assertions based on his own personal belief in the bible. We have asked polyglide on numerous occasions to provide evidence which he never provides. All he ever says is look at the websites but he never looks at the counter evidence which is scientifically corroroborated and proven. Scientific theories are not proven wrong by religion, polyglide. Scientific theories stand the test of time and they gather knowledge. If you are so sure that science is wrong and that religion is right why are you arguing about it on an online forum. Publish your results and your proof. Let the whole world know that you, polyglide, the wise and knowledgable, has evidence that science is wrong and that religion is right.

As for being kind, I think that is a Christian's remit to extend the hand of friendship and kindness in the name of Jesus. Tosh has been nothing but honest. Polyglide has been a hypocrite to his own cause. But that's alright, he just has to apologise to God and everything is square. Doesn't matter that polyglide is rude or ignorant so long as he asks for God's forgiveness. What bollocks.
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Re: So...why is it religions hate each other and atheists?

Post by polyglide on Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:49 am

I look at all the evidence starting with all living things.

I then consider the implications of how and why.

I then consider the evidence.

Evolution provides theories that do not stand up to close examination and are just that theories.

Scientists can prove that evolution takes place and I agree that it does but not that it is responsible for life itself and that is the important point.

I think anyone who looks at life and thinks it can have come about without an intelligence being involved must be unable to consider the obvious.
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