Welcome to Cutting Edge. Guests can see and read the contents of most of the boards on this forum but need to become members to read all of them. Currently membership is instant, but new accounts may be deleted if not activated within fourteen days.

If you decide to join the forum, please open your welcome message for further details. New members are requested to introduce themselves on the appropriate thread on our welcome board.

Members may post messages and start threads, but it is essential that they read our posting rules and advice before doing so. If you have any immediate questions or queries, please post them on the suggestions board.

After posting at least ten messages, members are able to contact each other and the staff through our personal messaging system.

This forum is administrated by Ivan and moonbeam and moderated by boatlady and astradt1.

Thank you for visiting Cutting Edge.

Employment statistics

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Employment statistics - Cameron lies again

Post by skwalker1964 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:56 am

First topic message reminder :

Repost from my blog. As usual, for links please visit the original at: http://skwalker1964.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/october-employment-statistics-cameron-lies-and-misdirects/

It’s time again to take a proper look at the latest ONS employment statistics. David Cameron, with his usual arrogant sneer, tried to taunt Ed Miliband this week during Prime Minister’s Questions, by asking why Miliband wasn’t congratulating the government on the fact that “employment is up by 212,000 this quarter; unemployment is down by 50,000 this quarter; the claimant count has actually fallen by 4,000; and what that means is that since the election some 170,000 fewer people are on out-of-work benefits“.

That kind of sneering triumphalism deserves to be challenged and examined at the best of times – and even more so in a period where the vast majority of people are being forced to get by on less by ideologically-driven and unnecessary cuts. So, let’s take a look behind the headlines.

Adjusted vs unadjusted

In my monthly analyses, I always mention that I’m using the unadjusted statistics, but this month that point is deserving of its own section. The ONS statisticians make theoretical seasonal adjustments to the actual figures to fit what they think is happening – but the raw, unadjusted figures tell what is really happening to real people. In general – though not always – the adjusted figures will be kinder to the government, but the raw data represent real life, whichever way they go. Let’s compare Cameron’s self-congratulation with the real-life figures:

- “employment is up by 212,000 this quarter”. Employment is up, but actually by 397,000, not 212,000. This matches almost exactly the reduction (400,000) in the number of ‘economically inactive’ people – this is very significant, as we’ll see shortly.

- “unemployment is down by 50,000 this quarter”. Well, no it isn’t. Employment is actually UP by 95,000, from 2.506 million to 2.601 million.

- “the claimant count has actually fallen by 4,000″. The claimant count is actually down by almost 20,000 since the last quarter.

- “what that means is that since the election some 170,000 fewer people are on out-of-work benefits”. I can’t find any statistic in the tables to support this assertion. Whether you use the adjusted or unadjusted statistics, the claimant count is much higher than it was at the time of the election: 1,517,300 people vs 1,494,500 people according to the adjusted figures, or 1,569,900 vs 1,502,200 according to the unadjusted statistics.

So either Cameron got it completely wrong – or else he lied (again) to Parliament. Cameron’s claim differs by 398,000 from the actual (adjusted) number. Too big to realistically be a mistake – but just right for a ‘Big Lie’. As we’ve seen with the ‘1 million net new jobs’ claim, Cameron just can’t resist the opportunity to stretch his claims well beyond the point where they can be called true, for the sake of political point-scoring.

Take all of Cameron’s statements together with the actual statistics, and you get a very different picture from the one he’s trying to paint:

- Claimant count down for the quarter but unemployment actually up means more than 100,000 people losing their jobs but being denied access to needed benefits.

- Employment up, and economic inactivity down by the same amount, while unemployment rose. Economic inactivity figures primarily represent those who, by choice, are not earning wages nor claiming benefits – for example, full-time parents or those with a spouse earning enough to mean they don’t have to work. A reduction in economic inactivity, then, is by no means necessarily a good thing.

The fact that unemployment rose means that the government is not helping those who want to work to find jobs. Instead its economic policies are reducing our incomes so that those who previously didn’t want or need to work are now having to find jobs to make ends meet – while those who are unemployed and seeking work are unable to find it. This is borne out by the next set of statistics.

No dent in unemployment, especially long-term

Numbers in all categories of long-term unemployment (12-24 months and 24+ months) are up substantially. And, contrary to the Tories’ ‘scrounger’ demonisation (the shift worker looking up at the closed curtains of his unemployed neighbour tucked cosily in bed, as Osborne so ludicrously put it), this is not because of people simply preferring a cushy life on benefits. As of the latest quarterly figures, there are 2,528,000 people out of work, and only 475,000 vacancies for them to fight for. No matter what, there are more than 2 million people in this country for whom there is no job – and more than 5 people fighting for every single job there is – even assuming that every vacancy has people with the right skills and circumstances to be able to do it.

Sometimes it’s hard to be a woman…

As (I think!) Tammy Wynette put it so eloquently. And how right she was. In various ways, women continue to be penalised disproportionately under the coalition government – not just in terms of lost benefits and increased costs, but in employment:

Unemployment: women make up 59% of the increase in unemployment.

Single parent claimants: single parent claimants (who are predominantly female) of job-seekers’ allowance is up since the last quarter – and almost doubled (from 70,130 to 134,885) since this government took office.

Lost hours: British people worked fewer hours in the last year, and fewer compared to a quarter ago. While male workers, whether full- or part-time, lost only around 30 minutes from their working (and therefore paid) week, female workers lost an hour or more.

‘Twas tough in such a time to be alive, but to be young was very hell

It’s a very hard time to be young at the moment. Housing costs are making the dream of independence and one’s own home unattainable for huge numbers of young people. University debts have escalated massively under this government (and no amount of musical apology from Nick Clegg changes the fact). The government is targeting young people for the removal of entitlement to housing benefit.

And unemployment? Well, for the 16-17 and 18-24 age groups, unemployment is up sharply. For 16-17 year-olds, the rate has increased massively from 33% to 40%. In pure numbers terms, another 62,000 people in that age group are out of work, and another 56,000 18-24 year-olds.

The working poor

Average wages increased slightly on the quarter, and since last year. However, they failed by a distance to keep pace with inflation – meaning that almost all of us are worse off under the coalition, no matter which period you look at. This means more working people pushed below the poverty line and need to claim housing benefit and income support – in spite of the government’s propaganda that implies that benefit-claimants are work-shy scroungers. This is probably exacerbated by the following segment.

The swing to part-time and low security continues

The number of people working part-time jumped by 59,000 compared to the previous quarter, while self-employment climbed by 55,000. While the government will try to spin the latter figure as showing that they are promoting enterprise, the reality is that most of these ‘self-employed’ jobs are either imposed by companies to avoid having to pay for sick leave, holidays and national insurance or represent people who are trying to make a living because they can’t find an employed position, but are by no means guaranteed to succeed.

Full-time employed positions have increased by only 30,000 since a year ago, while part-time positions have increased by 214,000 – a major factor in the fact that we’re working fewer hours as a nation, and being paid less too.

Productivity down

The government likes to claim that it’s pro-business and pro-enterprise, and – according to Cameron’s speech at his party’s conference earlier this month – that it’s making us leaner, meaner and more competitive. However, the statistics couldn’t contradict that claim more strongly.

Productivity per British worker is down – and is the lowest it has been since the government took office. That’s what happens when people feel under-valued, exploited, oppressed and abused – their hearts are no longer in their jobs and their output declines. Cameron and his government are crushing the spirits of British workers – or at least angering them so intensely that a de facto go-slow is taking place.

I’m sure there would be more bad news – because there always is – for disabled people, but the statistics on unemployment among the disabled are only updated every 3 months (which is a scandal in itself, really), so there’s nothing new to report yet compared to last month.

But the stats that have been published show, once again, that while there is some good news (in spite, rather than because of, the government), Cameron is presenting an extremely selective picture of the employment situation in Britain and shamelessly using it to pat himself, and his government, on the back – when in fact, the reality is that, for most of us, things are hard and getting harder. Most of us are in it together, while the Tories and their rich chums get richer and smugger – and applaud the orchestra fiddling as the Titanic sinks.

I wish I could say it’s not the norm.
avatar
skwalker1964

Posts : 819
Join date : 2012-05-15

http://skwalker1964.wordpress.com

Back to top Go down


Re: Employment statistics

Post by bobby on Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:02 am

Absolutely boatlady, How can it be right when low paid workers are in fact subsidising their own jobs, in order to make the already rich even richer.

bobby

Posts : 1939
Join date : 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by boatlady on Fri Jan 23, 2015 12:58 pm

I've always maintained that an adult working 40 hours a week, at whatever work, ought to be able to afford the essentials to finance a civilised life - decent accommodation, transportation, decent quality food, civilised entertainment and access to educational opportunities, as well as being able to provide for a small family, without recourse to State benefits - after all we work in order to live - our labour ought to bring us at least the means to live.
People who employ labour have a moral obligation to pay a living wage imho
avatar
boatlady
Administrator (Global Moderator)

Posts : 3651
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by bobby on Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:46 pm

Totally agree boatlady. What we keep hearing from the more unscrupulous employer is that they wouldn't be able to operate if they paid more in wages. I think that if they can not afford the going rate for their workforce, they haven't the right to be in business.
Keeping these companies afloat suits the Tories as it is yet another way for them to massage the figures making the Country look more prosperous than it truly is. I can not afford to purchase something I would simply go without, the same should apply when purchasing labour.  
avatar
bobby

Posts : 1939
Join date : 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by boatlady on Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:42 pm

true, that
avatar
boatlady
Administrator (Global Moderator)

Posts : 3651
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by Mel on Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:42 am

Under the Tories since 2010 the fall in earnings has been massive . The IFS explanation for the squeeze is that productivity growth has been negligible. Nonsense, why has this happened? A fall in investment and the ability of firms to replace expensive capital with cheap labour is the reason.
Now and of course we are nearer the election Tories band around thet Real earnings have started to rise at a faster rate. If this is true for the few, it is mainly because inflation is falling due to crashing oil prices. With the Tories in power earning for the masses will remain low. They talk about "BRITISH" earnings, what about the cheap labour expolitation of the foreign non British
workers, who flee their corrupt countries where slave labour exists
to come here happy to work for less than the min wage in many cases, thereby taking jobs from British folk.
Many of these workers are living together in one flat, six to a room so that they can share the rent and therefore able to survive on the slave labour wages that our people are unable to live on.
As bobby says, the Tories are using these workers to massage the unemployment figs and boast they have created jobs.
avatar
Mel

Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by Ivan on Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:15 am



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B-JcmYWIcAAq23A.jpg
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 6903
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by Mel on Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:22 pm

I'm sorry to say Ivan, those figs that are absolutely correct will never reach the masses. They now really believe that unemployment has fallen and that the deficit has been halved, wages have risen and that inflation is so low. None of these factors can be attributed to the Tories as they are ALL false and massaged.
No good saying it won't wash the general public, as thanks to Tory press and media who have the monopoly, public will believe every word written and voiced at them daily.
The trouble is when Labour politicians do get a glimmer of a chance to speak out, they fail to make it simple as your post figs do. They waffle about technicalities instead of countering the very strong claims the bloody lying Tories are coming out with.

With regards to the election, as far as the Tories are concerned, they play on what they have supposedly achieved and not what they will be doing if elected again.
I am fearful of the whole issue for Ed.
avatar
Mel

Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:29 pm

Tory donors have given the Party more money than it is legally allowed to spend on Election expenses. The Labour Party is funded by the Trade Union movement, and in the financial sense fighting with one hand tied behind its back. It has always been like that, politics in the XIX Century was limited to wealthy men in Parliament to ensure things stayed that way.

But the democratic vote can easily overcome that, since there are more poor voters than rich ones - if they will only realise that and act accordingly.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11621
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by Mel on Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:08 pm

OW Wrote
"But the democratic vote can easily overcome that, since there are more poor voters than rich ones - if they will only realise that and act accordingly."
Political and non distorted Education is needed for the poor voters which will never happen I fear.

My eldest daughter is at Kings College London reads Law,philosophy and poilitics Masters. A year ago she was arguing with me on the subject of past and present Tory policies.
Having defended the Tories in further debate with me and she having had further education on the subject, she has come to the same conclusion that we on this forum have. That is that they are tyrants, liars and supporters of the rich at the expense of the poor.
avatar
Mel

Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by Mel on Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:04 pm

CAMERON'S POLICIES
1/ SACK WORKERS. REDEFINE THEIR JOBS AS "COMMUNITY".
2/ MAKE THE UNEMPLOYED DO THE JOB FOR £71PER WK
3/ MY MATES POCKET THE PROFITS.
4/ MY PARTY GETS A CONTIBUTION.
5/ I GET A JOB ON THE BOARD.
6/CALL IT "THE FREE MARKET.
7/ SUPPORT MODERN SLAVERY.
avatar
Mel

Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by Charlatan on Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:38 pm

mel wrote:That is that they are tyrants, liars and supporters of the rich at the expense of the poor.

Okay, so they favor the rich. if they did not, they wouldn't be able to push for more jobs and make trade deals that benefit everybody. i am not saying they do, i am saying they are able.

Have you looked at their schedule for the term? have they done what they said they were going to do, or, are they doing something else that is good? failing to do good, and doing stuff, is doing bad, yes? i mean, everything costs money!

What would you say to said Tories if you had fifteen minutes? would you shout at them like a certain Julius Malema i am sure you have heard of, or would you research, brainstorm and submit your proposal for the betterment of all?
avatar
Charlatan

Posts : 246
Join date : 2011-11-11
Age : 36
Location : Cape Town South Africa

http://thecropof2010.yolasite.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by Mel on Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:07 am

Charliatan Quote "What would you say to said Tories if you had fifteen minutes? would you shout at them like a certain Julius Malema i am sure you have heard of, or would you research, brainstorm and submit your proposal for the betterment of all?."

You must surely know my answer to that question.
avatar
Mel

Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by Charlatan on Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:27 am

Mel wrote:Charliatan Quote "What would you say to said Tories if you had fifteen minutes? would you shout at them like a certain Julius Malema i am sure you have heard of, or would you research, brainstorm and submit your proposal for the betterment of all?."

You must surely know my answer to that question.

I am sorry, i couldn't get to the next page of the forums, so only saw your first message. i read your later when the pages opened up, and have decided that your suggestions are a bit strong.

So, if you were to, instead of being on a loud speaker with a lot of people outside the assembly, place yourself inside the assembly, what would you really say?

Manners are something that separate us from beasts, no? so, as eloquently as you can, could you state what you would really say?

A little correction here, i thought your policies were Mr. Cameron's! i just saw your name and the entires being in bold, so thought it was you. my apologies.

Am i correct in assuming that you would reverse all the things that Mr. Cameron says? i myself prefer UKIP.
avatar
Charlatan

Posts : 246
Join date : 2011-11-11
Age : 36
Location : Cape Town South Africa

http://thecropof2010.yolasite.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by Mel on Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:02 am

Ok Charliatan, one has to put ones case as briefly and as strong as possible so as to get the message across.
Cameron is at most times very rude and arrogant at the dispatch box and gets his message over covering up his failiers to address difficult questions that are put to him.

I would certainly not be so stupid as to be seen to be rude in the circumstance you describe. However I would put my points over with much strength and vigour, without waffle and to the point in simplicity. Simplicity is something Labour IMO fail to promote. In the very few press and media interviews that they are afforded by the prolific Tory loving owned media forum, they should keep it simple and brief as they are not afforded very much time, unlike the Tory members who are given plenty of scope. This is why people such as yourself may lean towards UKIP I am afraid.

From day one, it is as plain as a pike staff to see what an absolute con man Cameron has been. Only if you have a short memory and are reading the Tory rags and being brainwashed daily with the propaganda will you not see what is really going on.
Cameron could be the love child of Thatcher, he is more dangerous in so many ways the she was, which is saying something. He has introduced unsavoury people into his party such as Andy Coulson, and the ex boss of HSBC to name just two. Thatcher was aware of Leon Brittan's illegal sexual maters as comparison.

Yes I would undo 90% of Cameron's dirty policies along with his disgusting unfeeling animal Iain Duncan Smith's policies.

Please read what I have written on thread "WHO DOES GIDEON OSBORNE THINK HE IS KIDDING". You may then think again about favouring UKIP.

Kind Regards,
Mel
avatar
Mel

Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by boatlady on Sun Feb 22, 2015 11:18 am

Also, Charlatan, maybe catching up on English news from South Africa, what is happening here may seem a little less worrying than it appears on the ground - You are living in a country with a history of deliberately creating an underclass and know from first-hand experience no doubt what problems that has caused, and I believe still continues to cause - I believe in England we are witnessing a deliberate campaign of deskilling, impoverishing and disenfranchising the poorer sections of society - little wonder that some people are angry
avatar
boatlady
Administrator (Global Moderator)

Posts : 3651
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by Ivan on Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:12 pm

Between 1979 and 1997, the method of calculating the numbers of unemployed in the UK changed 24 times. In 23 of those changes, the numbers went down. Since 2010, the Tories have continued that ‘tradition’.

We currently have about a million people sanctioned, nearly a million using foodbanks and there is fake 'workfare' employment. 1.8 million people have zero hours contracts (many of which are classified as ‘full-time’ contracts), and Iain Duncan Smith is so worried about them that now he wants them renamed!

We have 1.3 million people working part-time but wanting full-time jobs, a record 4.5 million ‘self-employed’ (and this at a time when bank lending to business has collapsed and the average wage for self-employed workers is about £207 per week).

Adding the 1.8 million officially unemployed, it means that about 9.5 million of our citizens are not in a particularly good place just now. Furthermore, 9 million people are registered as ‘economically inactive’; some are full-time carers, some are students, many are unemployed but have simply given up trying to get work. That suggests that about 18.5 million of us are not enjoying the "good life" which Cameron says has arrived.

As a result of this Tory employment ‘miracle’, we have had a record fall in disposable income, record benefits payments, record numbers of children living in poverty, record numbers of homeless families, record numbers of adults living in poverty, and for the first time ever more people in work and claiming benefits than unemployed and claiming. It means that statistically you are more likely to be poverty in a working household than in an unemployed household.

It comes as no surprise that UK productivity is at a record low and is the worst among the G7 countries. Please remember all this when you next hear the Tories spouting their lies about creating 1,000 jobs a day since 2010.
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 6903
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by Mel on Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:22 pm

Absolutely correct Ivan and utterly disgusting to say the least.
Talk about figures manipulation, Tories are experts at it.
The problem is IMO we have too who are so glad to have any old job are so grateful they think the Tories have assisted them. There are those who I meet such as plumbers, carpenters and many other tradesmen, employed and self employed who say "i'm ok Jack". Many are too young to have experienced Thatcher and are hoodwinked by the Tory media/press spouting Tory propaganda, especially about "Labour letting in all those immigrants and Labour creating the financial crisis" They have got it into their heads about "those still in bed, when we are getting up to work". One can see why they think this way having been drip drip fed Tory propaganda. However let us hope the majority of working class folk have seen through these Tory tyrants.
avatar
Mel

Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:49 pm

Such is the sneering viciousness of Duncan Smith that it would never have surprised me - and it still wouldn't - if an attempt had been made on his life.

Don't ask me how I would feel if it happened...
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3932
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by stuart torr on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:35 pm

Well Phil looking at your photograph? false specs, moustache, and reverands outfit, when are you going to do the hit?
avatar
stuart torr
Deceased

Posts : 3187
Join date : 2013-10-10
Age : 57
Location : Nottingham. England. UK.

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:48 pm

I could be dangerous with a carbine under my cassock...
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3932
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by stuart torr on Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:00 pm

Laughing Laughing Laughing
avatar
stuart torr
Deceased

Posts : 3187
Join date : 2013-10-10
Age : 57
Location : Nottingham. England. UK.

Back to top Go down

Re: Employment statistics

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum