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Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

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Cameron is obnoxious and loathsome

Post by Ivan on Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:40 pm

First topic message reminder :

We were warned two years ago that Cameron is an obnoxious and loathsome individual, but not enough people were listening:-
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by blueturando on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:03 pm

Or you could just let the Tories take everything you earn and give it to the wealthy and Millionaires

How does that work then Redflag? Just another baseless comment as usual

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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Ivan on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:21 pm

Just another baseless comment as usual.
LOL. That's a bit rich coming from someone who went out of his way to try to prove the myth of welfare dependency in the UK, even using a source based on New Zealand in the process. Evil or Very Mad
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Redflag on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:37 pm

blueturando wrote:
Or you could just let the Tories take everything you earn and give it to the wealthy and Millionaires

How does that work then Redflag? Just another baseless comment as usual

The only baseless comment is coming directly from Tory party HQ blue.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by blueturando on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:48 pm

Ivan...I don't need to prove the concept and reality that is welfare dependency in the UK. Unless you've had your TV switched off for a few years then you may have seen programmes where people on benefits say they are trapped and even politicians in your own party admit there is a dependency culture/trap.

You can pretend until your last breath that there isn't one, but only you and maybe a few other deluded people actually really believe this

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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by blueturando on Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:51 pm

The only baseless comment is coming directly from Tory party HQ blue..

Again Red I have no idea what you're talking about and I suspect, neither do you.

Or you could just let the Tories take everything you earn and give it to the wealthy and Millionaires

Please try and explain how this works? I mean if you are going to continue to chuck out random statements at least tell us what you mean

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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:02 pm

"a dependency culture/trap."

which Tory MPs are dealing with through spiteful moves to deprive the less fortunate of what little they might have left.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by blueturando on Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:09 pm

Well it seems that the reforms have the publics backing and from what I saw on the BBC news last night, even people on benifits are pleased that the systems is being made simpler and it pays to be in work rather than not

What ever happened the the Labour Party that used to support the 'Working Class'?

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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Ivan on Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:27 pm

blueturando wrote:-
I don't need to prove the concept and reality that is welfare dependency in the UK.
You can’t prove it because it’s a myth that is unsupported by evidence. When you tried previously, you shot yourself in the foot by posting this source:-
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Note how it mentions “surveys which have shown that most claimants would rather be in employment, often for the intrinsic rewards of work rather than just for the greater income.” In the very next sentence it refers to “the myth of dependency culture”. Your source, not mine!

I haven’t got the time to waste on proving to you yet again that welfare dependency is a big fat Tory lie used to justify turning one part of the working class against another. Anecdotes about Philpott, or countless falsehoods from Iain Duncan Smith and Grant Shapps, may reinforce your prejudices, but they are still lies. If you're so pig-headed and bigoted as to believe such tripe, then don't be surprised if people treat you with the contempt you deserve.

Below are some sources which contain the facts, but of course you won’t read them as they would make uncomfortable reading. Far better to wallow in ignorance and then accuse those of us who do rely on evidence that we’re “making it up as we go along”.

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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Redflag on Wed May 01, 2013 8:05 am

blueturando wrote:
The only baseless comment is coming directly from Tory party HQ blue..

Again Red I have no idea what you're talking about and I suspect, neither do you.

Or you could just let the Tories take everything you earn and give it to the wealthy and Millionaires

Please try and explain how this works? I mean if you are going to continue to chuck out random statements at least tell us what you mean


I will tell you what I mean blue, you think by telling the same old Tory Ideology LIE eventually the people will swallow it some have for the time being but they will wake up I hope the Tories are prepared to face the wrath of the UK public.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Ivan on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:30 pm

Summing up the Tories’ message – poisonous and drenched in myths as it is
 
Extracts from an article by Owen Jones:-
 
We’re clearing up Labour’s mess. Labour overspent and now we’re balancing the books. A national deficit is like a household budget. Welfare is out of control and lining the pockets of the skivers. The unemployed person or immigrant down the road is living off your hard-earned taxes. Labour is in the pocket of union barons.

Summing up the Tories’ message – poisonous and drenched in myths as it is – in quick, sharp sentences is remarkably easy to do. It has been relentlessly, remorselessly, tediously hammered into the electorate’s skulls. Ministers, backbenchers and Tory media outriders have been disciplined members of this co-ordinated campaign. But if nonsense is repeated incessantly and is met with a weak challenge, it can soon become received wisdom.

The Tories have kicked off the long election campaign by borrowing the slogan of knuckle-dragging racists and spray painting it on government-funded vans, paraded in racially mixed communities; by conducting stop-checks of ethnic minority Britons at stations in the London Underground, demanding proof they should not be ejected from the country; and by using the official Home Office Twitter account to gleefully show bewildered, handcuffed people being thrown into vehicles, describing them as “immigration offenders” in tribute to Britain’s vaunted tradition of innocence until proven otherwise. Prepare for worse. Cameron’s Conservatives will shamelessly use taxpayers’ money to exploit people’s fears and prejudices to win the victory that eluded them in 2010.

 
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:52 pm

Owen Jones is one of the commentators who think that Labour should bare its chest and take on the Tory foe regardless of personal safety.

Beats tactics any day.

Go down fighting, lads.  They'll be sorry when we're all dead!

No they won't, actually.  Goliath wins by default in that scenario.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Redflag on Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:20 am

blueturando wrote:Well it seems that the reforms have the publics backing and from what I saw on the BBC news last night, even people on benifits are pleased that the systems is being made simpler and it pays to be in work rather than not

What ever happened the the Labour Party that used to support the 'Working Class'?

I would not bank on that blue the Tories have got away with LYING THROUGH THERE BACK TEETH TO THE PEOPLE OF UK for now, when the Universal credits come into being from the EVIL SCUMBAG IBS then the TRUTH WILL BE OUT then we will see how many will agree with the Welfare CUTS NOT REFORM.

As for it paying to work that is a BLATANT LIE for a start if you look at Zero Hour Contracts + Workfare that must take the TRUE Unemployment figures to over FOUR MILLION just another Tory cover up the same thing Thatcher did only her was giving her MPs a pay rise through there expenses claims while the rest of the UK where on pay freezes, the same expenses system that gave us the expenses Scandal.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Redflag on Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:04 am

blueturando wrote:
The only baseless comment is coming directly from Tory party HQ blue..

Again Red I have no idea what you're talking about and I suspect, neither do you.

Or you could just let the Tories take everything you earn and give it to the wealthy and Millionaires

Please try and explain how this works? I mean if you are going to continue to chuck out random statements at least tell us what you mean

Blue, if you needed me to break it down so that even a 5 year old could understand, you only had to ask...

Ok presuming you haven't been living in some cave somewhere you will be aware of the 5p Tax?? Yes? ~ Where the tories reduced the tax rate down from 50p in the £ to 45p in the £ for those earning £150.000 + Country up sh*tcreek financially, yet the tories still offer tax relief to THEIR SUPPORTERS(enboldened just to ensure you get the message and no confussion!) Tax break No#2 comes in the form of increase in personal allowance, supposedly created for those at the lower end of the wage scale, yet those in the upper echelon of the wages curve will also benefit from this too. So 2 tax breaks for TORY SUPPORTERS (enboldened just to ensure you get the message and no confussion!) yet eveyone else gets: bedroom tax, benefit cuts, NHS services drastically cut.

After outlining the key points of Tory ideology for a 5 year old to understand I am sure you will now see I was able to ascertain that Tories take everything you earn and give it to the wealthy & Millionaires. As for chucking out random statements I'll leave that to your good self!
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International recognition of what we already knew - the 'inherited mess' is a myth

Post by skwalker1964 on Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:39 pm

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The Observer published a very interesting article on Sunday, in which its senior economic correspondent, William Keegan, noted that two economists of world renown have recently assessed the economic performance of the last Labour government and come to similar conclusions:

The ‘inherited mess’ – that most worn-out of Tory accusations against the Labour party – is a complete myth.

Since that touches on one of the seminal posts of this blog, dating back over a year, and one which has been the subject of much attempted-but-failed derision by Tory trolls visiting this blog, I’m going to indulge in a little bit of ‘I told you so’.

Keegan quotes economist Simon Wren-Lewis – the economist whose intervention kept the UK out of the euro – in the Oxford Review of Economic Policy:

The debt-to-GDP ratio in 2007 was lower than its level in 1997, and the net borrowing requirement was fairly close to a neutral 2% deficit, so it cannot be said that fiscal policy was seriously deficient over this period.

In my post The Myth of the Inherited Mess in May 2012, I wrote:

In fact, although not shown on this graph, the debt when Labour took power – the ‘inherited mess’ from the previous Tory government! – was higher than at any time during Labour’s tenure until the 2008 global crash.

Keegan quotes Wren again:

The line that the Labour government was responsible for leaving a disastrous fiscal position which requires great national sacrifice to put right is pure spin

I wrote:

WHEN THIS GOVERNMENT AND ITS REPRESENTATIVES SAY ‘THE MESS WE INHERITED’ – AS THEY OH SO SURELY WILL – THEY ARE LYING: IT IS A ‘BIG (FAT!) LIE’!…

Keegan observes:

The difference is that the fracture to my shoulder was the result of an accident, whereas the austerity policy was no accident, but deliberately inflicted on an economy that had been gently recovering from the financial crisis.

I wrote:

They want to fool you, so they can continue wrecking our great country and siphoning our money into the pockets of the so-called elite who pay into Tory party coffers (and Tory ministers’ bank accounts, it appears).

I also wrote:

Anyone who knows me very well will know that I talk a lot about the ‘Big Lie’ concept. In a nutshell, this says that the bigger a lie is, and the more emphatically it’s spouted, the more people are likely to think, ‘Well, they wouldn’t dare say it, and especially not like that, if it weren’t true!’ But of course, it isn’t true – that’s the whole point. As someone said to me the other day, a plausible lie, shouted loud enough and often enough, usually gets to be taken for the truth.’

Keegan comments,

I
t has to be conceded, however, that the coalition’s judgment that it could fool a lot of the people a lot of the time with this blatant misrepresentation was all too shrewd.

While Wren-Lewis called it “unfortunate, but hardly surprising, that the Labour record of this time has become highly politicised.

As I pointed out in 2012, the ‘Big Lie’ on Labour’s handling of the economy is used to justify the equally big lie that austerity is the right path to recovery, when it fact it merely intensifies and extends the economic misery for millions.

Keegan calls George Osborne “the most dangerous chancellor of my career” – a sentiment with which I would wholeheartedly concur. I’m not alone. Keegan quotes new US Treasury Secretary Jack Lew, in a tacit but unmistakable condemnation of the Tories’ economic policies:

While long-term fiscal policy requires tough decisions, we knew we could not cut our way to prosperity.

In 2012 I wrote:

Tory spending cuts, even without a global ‘meltdown’, are pushing debt up and making the debt-block fatter. Countries like the USA, who under Barack Obama took a positive approach to stimulate their economy, have experienced growth during the same period that we’ve increased debt and suffered recession.

But the point of this post is not really to pat myself on the back, even though it’s nice to be proved right (though it would be much nicer not to have to be!).

The real point is this: nothing has changed.

In spite of a very, very minor economic upturn which (since the Tories are happy to blame bad weather for downturns) is probably due to nothing much more than the weather, the Tory ‘direction of travel’ has not changed at all.

In a period in which the cuts already made are beginning to bite, with millions in hardship because of the bedroom tax, cuts to benefits and decreasing wages pushing hundreds of thousands of children into poverty, and hundreds of thousands of disabled people joining them – the Tories are routinely speaking of ‘fat on the bone’ still to be cut.

Francis Maude and others have recently been interviewed on BBC Radio 4 stating that further welfare cuts are required to ‘balance the books’ and avoid the need for tax rises. Rhetoric about the ‘bloated’ welfare state and public sector is still commonplace.

And it’s all still based on a ‘Big Lie’ so big that the concept of ‘big’ is dwarfed by it.

The Tories still believe that they can “fool a lot of people a lot of the time with this blatant misrepresentation”.

But the word is out, and articles like that in the Observer represent a glimmer of light and of the hope of dispelling the blatant, cynical lie. Most of the media won’t, of course, carry it – they’ll continue to propagate the nonsense-myth, shamelessly.

So it’s up to us to use the tools and connections available to us to spread the word and combat the Big Lie with the far bigger Truth that will be far more powerful if it just reaches the ears of enough people. And it’s up to us not to grow weary or lose hope – or if we do, then to grit our teeth and keep fighting out of sheer, bloody-minded refusal to let the cancer grow unfought.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Redflag on Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:49 pm

I am glad you have brought up that WORN OUT THAT OLD CHESTNUT skywalker, every time they come out with the mess the Labour party left they never mention it was there donors that the Labour party had to go borrow the money to bail them out, I wonder what the Tory party would have done for funds if the banks and hedge funds had been allowed to go to the wall ??
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by blueturando on Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:11 pm

Ok presuming you haven't been living in some cave somewhere you will be aware of the 5p Tax?? Yes? ~ Where the tories reduced the tax rate down from 50p in the £ to 45p in the £ for those earning £150.000 + Country up sh*tcreek financially, yet the tories still offer tax relief to THEIR SUPPORTERS

Red....Your argument would only make sense if the tax rate was at 50p during 13 years of Labour Government....Well we all know it wasn't (40p) and the rate was only changed a couple of months before Labour were beaten in the GE. So the coalition top rate is 5p more than Labours....Seems like is was your crowd who supported the rich. We still had huge debt while Brown was in the Treasury, or he wouldn't have sold off the gold reserves and raided pension funds to fill the spending gap, so why didn't you and others call for a tax rate increase then????

Once again and hopefully the last time, this weak argument does not wash with the public and thats why Labour are not trusted with the economy...Please take your blinkers off for once

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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by blueturando on Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:15 pm

Skwalker.....and I don't suppose Labour have ever accepted large donations from rich individuals have they? I'm sure if any were offered Labour said 'No thanks'?....Would you like me to list some? Once again the argument is lost...Its like a Cod moaning that a halibut is too fishy

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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by blueturando on Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:21 pm

Tax break No#2 comes in the form of increase in personal allowance, supposedly created for those at the lower end of the wage scale, yet those in the upper echelon of the wages curve will also benefit from this too. So 2 tax breaks for TORY SUPPORTERS

Tory supporters? So are you saying that all people who have received an increase to their personnel allowance vote Tory? I hope youre right Redflag

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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Penderyn on Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:33 pm

Tories do nothing but lie, ever, and no-one who ever looks into any matter ever believes 'em. It is just a sort of fog they keep pumping out, so that the half-asleep do what they say because it is easier than acting like men or women. And when you point out such obvious points, all they ever do is curse at the ex-Labour Party for taking over the world, and particularly the American housing market, to cause the Slump. Jesus wept!
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by blueturando on Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:57 pm

They all lie Penderyn.... Even as a Tory I am no fan of many of their policies and the directions they take, but what I hate more is the hypocrisy from various people that think the currnet Labour party is any different...Well here's news, they are not any different.

What you see here is Tribal politics and absolutley nothing to do with supporting the working/middle class man, women or child. If that was the case the Labour party would have been on the attack over many policy and welfare decisions, but all we see and here is thinly veiled attemps that vanish in a week or so.....Their silence is deafening and says all you need to know

All 3 main partys are now just filled with career politicians, who are more interested in enhancing their own standing and people who could benefit them personally, rather than do what they are paid to do and that is represent the people of the UK.

Some of the BS posted on here is almost unbelievable, but then I remember that its all down to making sure their tribe gets in power and nothing to do with what would be good for the country and the people in it.

Spin and lies will be king Peneryn, until someone changes our politics

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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Penderyn on Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:04 pm

blueturando wrote:They all lie Penderyn.... Even as a Tory I am no fan of many of their policies and the directions they take, but what I hate more is the hypocrisy from various people that think the currnet Labour party is any different...Well here's news, they are not any different.

What you see here is Tribal politics and absolutley nothing to do with supporting the working/middle class man, women or child. If that was the case the Labour party would have been on the attack over many policy and welfare decisions, but all we see and here is thinly veiled attemps that vanish in a week or so.....Their silence is deafening and says all you need to know

All 3 main partys are now just filled with career politicians, who are more interested in enhancing their own standing and people who could benefit them personally, rather than do what they are paid to do and that is represent the people of the UK.

Some of the BS posted on here is almost unbelievable, but then I remember that its all down to making sure their tribe gets in power and nothing to do with what would be good for the country and the people in it.

Spin and lies will be king Peneryn, until someone changes our politics

Duw, Duw! - I find I am mostly disagreeing with your avatar! Smile
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by boatlady on Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:38 pm

Steve
Good post.
There is some slight evidence that the debate is opening out and that some of the big lies are being if not questioned at least looked at a bit more closely.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:47 pm

For so long as the Tories are supported by big business and particularly the Press Barons, other political parties can only play catchup.

Surely it must be time for a democratic change.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Redflag on Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:53 pm

blueturando wrote:
Ok presuming you haven't been living in some cave somewhere you will be aware of the 5p Tax?? Yes? ~ Where the tories reduced the tax rate down from 50p in the £ to 45p in the £ for those earning £150.000 + Country up sh*tcreek financially, yet the tories still offer tax relief to THEIR SUPPORTERS

Red....Your argument would only make sense if the tax rate was at 50p during 13 years of Labour Government....Well we all know it wasn't (40p) and the rate was only changed a couple of months before Labour were beaten in the GE. So the coalition top rate is 5p more than Labours....Seems like is was your crowd who supported the rich. We still had huge debt while Brown was in the Treasury, or he wouldn't have sold off the gold reserves and raided pension funds to fill the spending gap, so why didn't you and others call for a tax rate increase then????

Once again and hopefully the last time, this weak argument does not wash with the public and thats why Labour are not trusted with the economy...Please take your blinkers off for once
 
Blue let me explain this so you and other Tories finally get it not the lies that your party have been spouting for the last 39 months, In May 1997 the Labour party came to power after a LANDSLIDE VICTORY ,  the banking CRISIS when the bankers and hedge fund manager took their customers savings for a night out at the CASINO and lost the bloody lot in 2008.  The Banks were on the brink of collapse when Gordon Brown HAD to go and borrow money to bail them out, or your savings or business along with many others would have went down the SWANEE along with the entire UK.
 
Gordon Brown done his upmost to keep our ecomomy growing hence keeping people in their jobs and also paying there NI and Tax so the treasury would have money coming in to pay the UKs bills, until then everything was OK work was plentyfull there was no need to hike up tax then the interest on the loans that were taken out to BAIL OUT BANKS had to be paid. Gordon Brown did his best to keep the UK economy going vat cuts, cajoling people to buy new cars by offering them a £3.000 on their old one if it was 10 years old to keep the car manufacturing going hence keeping people in work, then because the interest was high he had to hike up the tax from 40p in the £ to 50p in the £ and since the people that would be paying the hike in tax where also the ones that caused the CRISIS.
 
I do not need to take my blinkers off blue I AM NOT WEARING ANY but I think you need to see a doctor quite soon and get him to wash out all the SHYTE and SPIN your party has been feeding you for too many years.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Ivan on Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:27 pm

the coalition top rate is 5p more than Labours....Seems like is was your crowd who supported the rich.
Redflag. It isn’t really worth responding to such classic troll behaviour from blueturando. He’s raised the point about the 40% tax rate under Labour a number of times previously – copying what his lord and master Cameron does at PMQs – and it doesn’t matter how many times you reply, he comes back and posts the same old shyte again a few weeks later.
 
There’s no point in explaining that Labour didn’t need to increase the top rate of tax when the economy was growing continuously for eleven years. There’s no point in explaining that, in vastly different circumstances in 2009-10, Labour decided that those with the broadest backs should carry a bigger burden. So my advice is - the next time that deceitful soundbite is spewed up, don’t feed the troll.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by blueturando on Wed Aug 07, 2013 12:16 am

Redflag. It isn’t really worth responding to such classic troll behaviour from blueturando

So anyone who doesn't agree with your politics is a troll then? I thought you above such childish remarks Ivan, but obviously I was wrong

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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:12 am

In a college debating society it is common for a speaker to act as "Devil's Advocate" i.e. to deliberately oppose what would be an otherwise popular motion, in order to stimulate discussion.

If that's your intention, blueturando, all well and good, but personal jibes can quickly fall into the "trolling" category.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Redflag on Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:32 am

blueturando wrote:
Redflag. It isn’t really worth responding to such classic troll behaviour from blueturando

So anyone who doesn't agree with your politics is a troll then? I thought you above such childish remarks Ivan, but obviously I was wrong

Again we need to explain things as if you where A FIVE YEAR OLD blue, from the way you are spitting your DUMMY it looks like you are the same as Cameron and the Tory MPs "CAN NOT TAKE THE TRUTH" if its not LIES & SPIN you and your party DO NOT WANT TO KNOWcheers
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Ivan on Thu Aug 08, 2013 11:55 pm

blueturando wrote:-
So anyone who doesn't agree with your politics is a troll then?
That’s not what I said at all, but why am I not surprised that a troll is twisting my words yet again? Evil or Very Mad 
 
I think this is a good definition of a troll:-
 
“Someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.”
 
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(I’m sure that definition could be widened to include people who use threads, instead of the personal messaging system, to make complaints.)
 
You know exactly what I was talking about, your frequent repetition of deceitful drivel about the 50% tax rate. The plain fact is that the Tories cut it when many other people were being squeezed – for example with 20% VAT, with benefit cuts, with the bedroom tax, with over 700,000 public sector jobs being abolished. Don’t bother to repeat the Tory lie that cutting tax for the rich brings in more money, we've heard it many times before and it's rubbish. Scrapping the 50% rate will reduce taxation revenue by at least £2.7 billion.
 
Incidentally, posting the same tripe more than once transgresses the rules of the site owner, Forumotion.com:-
 
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Trolling includes posting absurdities such as this:-
 
Seems like is was your crowd who supported the rich.
I’ll let Ian Dunt answer that nonsense:-
 
“In almost every government department, actions are being taken which give the rich greater rights than the poor. Under the guise of deficit reduction, those on low-to-middle wages are stripped of their ability to secure legal aid, robbing them of fair representation under the law. If you use a library, the local council will do its best to strip it of the pitiful funds it receives while slashing corporation tax for the book shop chain next door.

This barren division also applies to immigration. Those with net assets of at least £1 million can enter when they like and stay for as long as they like. They are not required to meet any English language requirements – only the poor will be forced to learn a language in Cameron's Britain. We invite in the impossibly rich playboys, the jet-set from the Middle East and Latin America, who refuse to participate in British society. But it is acceptable, because they are rich. The fact that their appalling wealth drives up property prices means nothing to a government that prostitutes ethical and social issues in the name of money.

If you're poor, it's a different story. From student immigration to working visas, the government is intent on making it harder to come here. Half the working population of Britain have lost the right to fall in love with someone overseas and bring them home to live together. Only the rich can fall in love on holiday. Only the rich are allowed to live with the person they love. The poor must be apart, or leave their own country.”

 
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Penderyn on Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:11 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Owen Jones is one of the commentators who think that Labour should bare its chest and take on the Tory foe regardless of personal safety.

Beats tactics any day.

Go down fighting, lads.  They'll be sorry when we're all dead!

No they won't, actually.  Goliath wins by default in that scenario.
If all you do is join the Philistines, what exactly is the point then? If the vast majority who do the work are killed, that is the end of the vermin who live off their backs you know.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Redflag on Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:01 pm

blueturando wrote:
Tax break No#2 comes in the form of increase in personal allowance, supposedly created for those at the lower end of the wage scale, yet those in the upper echelon of the wages curve will also benefit from this too. So 2 tax breaks for TORY SUPPORTERS
Tory supporters? So are you saying that all people who have received an increase to their personnel allowance vote Tory? I hope youre right Redflag
I see once again blue you are twisting my words as Ivan has said too many times so...

Get into your high chair have you got your BIB on ? right I will begin now no dribbling...

All that was being said the ELITE at the top of the Money tree that recieved a 5p tax break from DIddy Gideon also benefitted from the rise in personnell allowance so that is two tax breaks for the rich & wealthy friends and donors of the Tory party.

Ah now I see you have fallen out of your high chair let me put you back in...
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Aug 09, 2013 7:23 pm

Penderyn wrote: ....

If all you do is join the Philistines, what exactly is the point then?   If the vast majority who do the work are killed, that is the end of the vermin who live off their backs you know.
The Operation was a success, but the patient died.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by sickchip on Fri Aug 09, 2013 10:08 pm

blue,

Reading between your lines I can see you are, at heart - and by instinct, a decent person who is uncomfortable with many of the current government's policies. I suspect you are beginning to realise that the imbalances and inequalities in society are reaching a point where they are becoming, to say the least, somewhat problematic. I would hazard a guess that 'capitalism' in it's current guise makes you a little uneasy.

I think there is less difference between yourself, Ivan, Redflag, etc, than, at face value, people here might imagine.

My one grumble would be your perverse, and dated, avatar......but maybe it is an intended irritant on your part.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Redflag on Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:42 am

 
I used to think the same thing about blue, sickchip. I thought here we have one decent Tory, but of late that seems to have changed a lot maybe it because of the fcuk ups that the Tories are having of late, UKIP taking their members and their Idiotic policies that are thought up in one minute and then do not work so they're scrapped.
 
Or maybe it's just as you have said about capitalism making him uneasy and grumpy.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Aug 10, 2013 12:49 pm

Distilled, the message coming from Cutting Edge subscribers to the entire political establishment is:

A plague on all your houses!

(NIHILISM ni·hil·ism
1.total rejection of social mores: the general rejection of established social conventions and beliefs, especially of morality and religion
2.belief that nothing is worthwhile: a belief that life is pointless and human values are worthless
3.disbelief in objective truth: the belief that there is no objective basis for truth.
Synonyms: negativism, pessimism, nothingness, emptiness, anarchism, skepticism).

So what comes next?
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Penderyn on Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:08 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Distilled, the message coming from Cutting Edge subscribers to the entire political establishment is:  

A plague on all your houses!

(NIHILISM  ni·hil·ism
1.total rejection of social mores: the general rejection of established social conventions and beliefs, especially of morality and religion
2.belief that nothing is worthwhile: a belief that life is pointless and human values are worthless
3.disbelief in objective truth: the belief that there is no objective basis for truth.
Synonyms: negativism, pessimism, nothingness, emptiness, anarchism, skepticism).

So what comes next?
The replacement of a narrow political class having no connection with ordinary life, all enslaved to bankers and Murdochs. An insistence that no-one enter parliament until he/she has done twenty years real work shouldn't be hard to enforce. In practice, we'll have to rebuild the labour movement, since the mugs decided to save on their union subs by eating grass and believing whatever crap their masters told 'em, but that's obvious, surely?
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Redflag on Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:12 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Distilled, the message coming from Cutting Edge subscribers to the entire political establishment is:  

A plague on all your houses!

(NIHILISM  ni·hil·ism
1.total rejection of social mores: the general rejection of established social conventions and beliefs, especially of morality and religion
2.belief that nothing is worthwhile: a belief that life is pointless and human values are worthless
3.disbelief in objective truth: the belief that there is no objective basis for truth.
Synonyms: negativism, pessimism, nothingness, emptiness, anarchism, skepticism).

So what comes next?
We get rid of what is causing all our WOES, SACK THE EFFING TORIES.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Aug 10, 2013 1:16 pm

A good start, Redflag, but what if the price of sacking the effing tories turns out to be a Lib-Lab coalition?
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Redflag on Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:22 pm

oftenwrong wrote:A good start, Redflag, but what if the price of sacking the effing tories turns out to be a Lib-Lab coalition?
 
If everybody that has been badly effected by the Tory cuts gets off their ASSES and gets down to their local POLLING STATION OW the Labour party will get a LANDSLIDE VICTORY just like 1997, then there will be no need for a coalition plus do not think the PROSTITUTE PARTY will have enough MPs to form a coalition after the general election in 2015.
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by blueturando on Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:06 pm

blue,

Reading between your lines I can see you are, at heart - and by instinct, a decent person who is uncomfortable with many of the current government's policies. I suspect you are beginning to realise that the imbalances and inequalities in society are reaching a point where they are becoming, to say the least, somewhat problematic. I would hazard a guess that 'capitalism' in it's current guise makes you a little uneasy.
Sickchip.....You are right on all of the above and I do not have faith in any of our politicians to deliver. Spin, lies and personal gain is all that they are good for...unless you are one of the sheep and then those things get ignored

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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

Post by Penderyn on Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:00 pm

And what the shit benefit will a New Labour landslide victory be to ordinary working people?
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Re: Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

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