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Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

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Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:50 am

Women in Combat and Sexual Assault
By Heather Mac Donald
January 27, 2013 7:01 P.M.

I caught a snippet of the congressional hearing on sexual predation at Lackland Air Force Base last week on CSPAN.

Sexual predation is indefensible, and everything should be done to punish the perpetrators and deter further abuse. But there may be a limit to how much gender-sensitivity training can do to reengineer some brutish but basic human impulses in an institution still at least formally dedicated to a high-testosterone activity, one characterized by extreme and absolute differences of power. The goal of the military’s diversity infrastructure — to introduce women into every corner of a formerly predominantly male activity — had better be highly important to war preparedness to justify the cost. There may have been a wisdom in the millennia-long separation of the sexes in the combat portions of military organizations, beyond simply the physical unfitness of nearly all women for the rigors of actual, sustained combat.

The hearing featured tearful victims of sexual assault on American military bases, still reeling from the experience years later. What will happen, one wonders, if our newly minted female fighters are captured in a country where rape is a tool of war. Will we take sexual-assault advisers on combat missions or let the women fend for themselves psychologically as well as physically? And what will be the opportunities to retrain the enemy?

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/338942/women-combat-and-sexual-assault-heather-mac-donald

The underlined text echoes exactly the first thoughts that popped into my mind upon hearing that women in the U.S. military can now become combat soldiers/sailors/airmen.

What percent of female POWs that are captured by Islamafascist taliban and al qaida cowards will be raped? I suspect that one hundred percent will be raped brutally, and I suspect that one hundred percent will be raped brutally and repeatedly.


Last edited by RockOnBrother on Wed Feb 06, 2013 2:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by Shirina on Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:57 am

Women have been in combat in many nations around the world. Israel hasn't had a problem and the Soviet Union had women in combat going all the way back to WWII. Women are even getting into the suicide bomber business, not that that's a good thing.

The issue of rape is a cultural failing and shouldn't be pinned on the female - whether directly or indirectly - by denying her the same chance to serve her country as any man would. There are inherent risks associated with military service. As long as the recruiters are up front and honest when informing potential female recruits about those risks, it should be up to the woman - not the misguided if benevolent wants of men - to decide if the risks are worth it.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:45 am

A current case in the British Army indicates that alleged rape can take place in an Officers Mess, remote from The Front Line.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by moonbeam on Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:39 pm

Women get raped by soldiers in their own military too, as oftenwrong mentioned. However, I would think that any woman going into combat in an area where the incidence of rape is very high knows that that is a possibility. She accepts that risk, along with the risk of death or injury, before she goes.

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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:04 pm

Heather Mac Donald, January 27, 2013 at 7:01 PM:

What will happen… if our newly minted female fighters are captured in a country where rape is a tool of war.1

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/338942/women-combat-and-sexual-assault-heather-mac-donald
oftenwrong wrote:
… alleged rape can take place in an Officers Mess, remote from The Front Line.
moonbeam wrote:
Women get raped by soldiers in their own military too…
Uniform Code of Military Justice

•Sub Chapter 10. Punitive Articles
◦920. ARTICLE 120. RAPE AND CARNAL KNOWLEDGE

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife, by force and without consent, is guilty of rape and shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.2

(b) Any person subject to this chapter who, under circumstances not amounting to rape, commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife who has not attained the age of sixteen years, is guilty of carnal knowledge and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.2
 

  1. taliban and al qaida cowards employ rape as a tool of war.

  2. The United States military justice system punishes military personnel for rape.

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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:32 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
Uniform Code of Military Justice

•Sub Chapter 10. Punitive Articles
◦920. ARTICLE 120. RAPE AND CARNAL KNOWLEDGE

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife, by force and without consent, is guilty of rape and shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.2

(b) Any person subject to this chapter who, under circumstances not amounting to rape, commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife who has not attained the age of sixteen years, is guilty of carnal knowledge and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.2
[color=black]

Unless there is a bit more to that Army Regulation, rape is not a criminal matter inside marriage. An outmoded belief in English Law.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by moonbeam on Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:54 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
The United States military justice system punishes military personnel for rape.
1. A woman in the military should not have to worry about being raped by those she serves with! How despicable.
2. Only if the woman comes forward.


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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:02 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
RockOnBrother wrote:
Uniform Code of Military Justice

•Sub Chapter 10. Punitive Articles
◦920. ARTICLE 120. RAPE AND CARNAL KNOWLEDGE

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife, by force and without consent, is guilty of rape and shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.2

(b) Any person subject to this chapter who, under circumstances not amounting to rape, commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife who has not attained the age of sixteen years, is guilty of carnal knowledge and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.2
Unless there is a bit more to that Army Regulation, rape is not a criminal matter inside marriage.a  An outmoded belief in English Law.
 

  • Red herring. Neither taliban nor al qaida prohibit rape. Neither taliban nor al qaida punish rapists. Both taliban and al qaida employ rape as a tool of war.  



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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:19 pm

moonbeam wrote:
RockOnBrother wrote:
The United States military justice system punishes military personnel for rape.
1. A woman in the military should not have to worry about being raped by those she serves with! How despicable.
2. Only if the woman comes forward.

1. Yes she should. A woman should always worry about being raped by those with which she serves, whether the woman serves as an office worker, a corporate executive, a teacher, or a soldier-sailor-airman-marine-coastguardsman.

2. No person should be accused of a heinous crime without an accuser coming forward to accuse. That’s common law, the core of American USV federal, state, and military justice systems.

Of course rape is despicable; that’s why UCMJ allows the death penalty to be administered to persons convicted of rape at courts martial.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by moonbeam on Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:45 am

1. I completely disagree that a woman should have to worry about being raped by a co-worker of any kind.

2. If the woman doesn't come forward, who is doing the accusing?


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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Fri Feb 01, 2013 1:20 am

moonbeam wrote:
1. I completely disagree that a woman should have to worry about being raped by a co-worker of any kind.

2. If the woman doesn't come forward, who is doing the accusing?

1. You have a right to disagree with reality if you so choose. A woman who does not worry about being raped by co-workers is a naïve woman in a cruel, harsh world.

2. If the victim does not come forward, no one is doing the reporting r the accusing. If the rape is un-witnessed by a third party, the rape can only be reported and the rapist(s) accused by (1) the rapist(s), or (2) the victim. I doubt very seriously that rapists often come forward and report and accuse themselves; thus, if the rape is going to be reported and the rapist(s) accused, it’s up to the victim to come forward and do so.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by moonbeam on Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:01 am

1. I don't worry about my coworkers raping me, and I can assure you that I don't consider myself to be naive. In fact, I have never worked in an environment where I was ever concerned for my safety in any way, shape or form.

2. "it’s up to the victim to come forward and do so." That was exactly my point! You previously said "No person should be accused of a heinous crime without an accuser coming forward to accuse." which just really made no sense to me because the perpetrator is hardly going to confess on his own. Smile

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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:29 am


1. I pray that you are never victimized by a co-worker or co-workers. I don’t know the stats; I do know that a significant number of rape victims are raped by persons known to and up until then trusted by the victims.

I once served the people of my state as a child abuse and neglect investigator-social worker. During training, I and others were taught that child abusers and neglectors were more often than not closely associated with their victims. In my time of service, every case that I investigated or otherwise became aware of involved a perpetrator or perpetrators that were closely associated with the victims.

Two boys, ages about two and three, were found dead in a ditch beside a Farm to Market road, with burns covering over half of their bodies. My fellow investigator tracked down the perpetrators and turned them in to the county sheriff’s office. The perpetrators were the mother and father of the victims.

Child abusers are cowards seeking easy victims upon whom to prey. Rapists are cowards seeking easy victims upon whom to prey. In both types of heinous crimes, perpetrators are often “wolves in sheep’s clothing”, awaiting an opportune moment to strike vulnerable prey. That’s life in its harsh reality.

2. In our country, a person accused of a crime has a Constitutionally-guaranteed right “to be confronted with” her/his accuser(s). A person accused of rape is not excluded from this right. I hope that this is now clear.

United States Constitution, Amendment 6

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by bambu on Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:29 am

It's a volunteer military...women sign up at their own peril, the same as the men.

False rape allegations are prevalent in greater society...so anyone accused of rape in the military needs to get a fair, just, and thorough trial, with 'watertight/airtight' evidence presented.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:23 pm

bambu wrote:
False rape allegations are prevalent in greater society...so anyone accused of rape in the military needs to get a fair, just, and thorough trial, with 'watertight/airtight' evidence presented.

True.

The Innocence Project
Dallas County Cases Where DNA Has Proven Innocence

Since 2001, 24 men who were wrongfully convicted in Dallas County, Texas, have been fully exonerated by DNA testing. Together they served more than 300 years in prison and many more years on parole.

Wiley Fountain - Sentence: 40 Years
.. convicted in 1986 of aggravated sexual assault…

Larry Fuller - Sentence: 50 Years
… convicted in 1981 of aggravated rape…

Charles Chatman - Sentence: 99 Years
… convicted in Dallas of a 1981 rape…

Thomas McGowan - Sentence: Life
… served nearly 23 years in Texas prison for a rape…

Johnnie Lindsey - Sentence: Life
… wrongfully convicted in 1982 of aggravated rape…

Cornelius Dupree - Sentence: 75 years
… a rape and robbery he didn’t commit.

http://www.innocenceproject.org/Content/Dallas_County_Cases_Where_DNA_Has_Proven_Innocence.php

One often-overlooked consequence of these wrongful convictions is that wrongfully un-convicted predators remain free to prowl to and fro seeking new victims.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:14 pm

Shirina wrote:
… the female… [should not be denied]  the same chance to serve her country as any man would.
moonbeam wrote:
… any woman going into combat in an area where the incidence of rape is very high knows that that is a possibility. She accepts that risk, along with the risk of death or injury, before she goes.
bambu wrote:
It's a volunteer military...women sign up at their own peril, the same as the men.

Normally, I would agree; I do not agree in this instance. The women mentioned and/or referenced above have not been brutally, repeatedly raped by taliban and al qaida cowards that employ rape as a tool of war; thus, the women mentioned and/or referenced above have no experiential data upon which to base their decisions to place themselves in far greater jeopardy than their male counterparts.

Shirina wrote:
… it should be up to the woman - not the misguided if benevolent wants of men - to decide if the risks are worth it.

This is a red herring, a bright red herring. I shall not defer expression of my concern until such time as I can complete a gender-conversion operation so that I can express the exact same concern as a female.

Shirina wrote:
The issue of rape is a cultural failing and shouldn't be pinned on the female - whether directly or indirectly - by denying her the same chance to serve her country as any man would.

This is also a red herring, a scarlet red herring. The “issue of rape” is an assault issue; the “issue of rape” is an extreme violence against persons issue; the “issue of rape” is a long term, often lifelong, deep psychological damage issue.

If 6 was 9 - Jimi Hendrix
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/2V4SnJy2Ge8

3:26-3:43: “Don’t nobody know what I’m talking about. I’ve got my own life to live. I’m the one that’s gonna have to die when it’s my time today, so let me live my life the way I want to”, Jimi Hendrix, 1967. Three years later he was dead.

Those who loved him died with him in their souls. Even those who did not know him personally died just a bit in their souls at learning of his death; I know, because I am one of those.

When a soldier suffers, those who love her/him suffer.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by Shirina on Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:58 pm

The “issue of rape” is an assault issue; the “issue of rape” is an extreme violence against persons issue; the “issue of rape” is a long term, often lifelong, deep psychological damage issue.

Rape is just another form of torture ... and both men and women are often tortured as POWs. Torture in its many forms always leave life-long, deep psychological damage. Just being in combat can do that.

I'm not trying to downplay the severity of rape, not in the least, but when rape is put into the context of war, it is not any worse than any other form of torture.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by willingsniper on Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:39 am

Shirina wrote:
The “issue of rape” is an assault issue; the “issue of rape” is an extreme violence against persons issue; the “issue of rape” is a long term, often lifelong, deep psychological damage issue.

Rape is just another form of torture ... and both men and women are often tortured as POWs. Torture in its many forms always leave life-long, deep psychological damage. Just being in combat can do that.

I'm not trying to downplay the severity of rape, not in the least, but when rape is put into the context of war, it is not any worse than any other form of torture.

So true.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by willingsniper on Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:51 am

taliban and al qaida cowards employ rape as a tool of war.

So does the US. And most often not a tool, just R&R. We often rape very young girls with impunity. Most cases of rape go unreported, and many of those go unprosecuted, and the ones that are prosecuted often go unpunished. Gang rape of very young village girls is the norm. Some are killed afterward. Some are murdered by their own families for being raped. Some have their whole family murdered by us. We are far from blameless. War is hell most often for the occupied innocents.

The United States military justice system punishes military personnel for rape.

See above
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Tue Feb 05, 2013 8:20 am

willingsniper wrote:
taliban and al qaida cowards employ rape as a tool of war.
So does the US.

Comparison is inappropriate, improper, and incorrect.

taliban and al qaida cowards face applause for raping innocent women; in an incident documented by Reuters, a taliban coward faced applause for placing nine rounds into the head of an innocent woman after first kidnapping and gang-raping her.

RockOnBrother, Monday, 9 July 2012 at 18:49
from Female human rights in Moslem cultures in World Issues
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t580-female-human-rights-in-moslem-cultures#23184

Taliban publicly execute woman near Kabul to cheers of jubilation from watching men

By Hamid Shalizi and Amie Ferris-Rotman

KABUL – Saturday, 7 July 2012, 7:04 PM BST

KABUL (Reuters) - A man Afghan officials say is a member of the Taliban shot dead a woman accused of adultery in front of a crowd near Kabul, a video obtained by Reuters showed, a sign that the austere Islamist group dictates law even near the Afghan capital.

In the three-minute video, a turban-clad man approaches a woman kneeling in the dirt and shoots her five times at close range with an automatic rifle, to cheers of jubilation from the 150 or so men watching in a village in Parwan province.

"Allah warns us not to get close to adultery because it's the wrong way," another man says as the shooter gets closer to the woman. "It is the order of Allah that she be executed".

… [this public punishment] raised concern about the treatment of Afghan women 11 years into the NATO-led war against Taliban insurgents.

When the unnamed woman, most of her body tightly wrapped in a shawl, fell sideways after being shot several times in the head, the spectators chanted: "Long live the Afghan mujahideen! (Islamist fighters)", a name the Taliban use for themselves.

Full Reuters story: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/07/07/us-afghanistan-taliban-woman-idUKBRE8660C320120707

Video: Taliban publicly execute woman near Kabul
http://www.youtube.com/v/vCV61MYdRj8

United States troops face death.

RockOnBrother, Thursday, 31 January 2013 at 22:04
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t775-women-in-combat-rape-waiting-to-happen#33579

Uniform Code of Military Justice

•Sub Chapter 10. Punitive Articles
◦920. ARTICLE 120. RAPE AND CARNAL KNOWLEDGE

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife, by force and without consent, is guilty of rape and shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

Continuing…

willingsniper wrote:
The United States military justice system punishes military personnel for rape.

See above

See below.

RockOnBrother, Thursday, 31 January 2013 at 22:04
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t775-women-in-combat-rape-waiting-to-happen#33579

Uniform Code of Military Justice

•Sub Chapter 10. Punitive Articles
◦920. ARTICLE 120. RAPE AND CARNAL KNOWLEDGE

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife, by force and without consent, is guilty of rape and shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.


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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by bobby on Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:54 pm

Rockonbrother, First let me thank you for your research regarding the US Military legal stance on rape.


]•Sub Chapter 10. Punitive Articles
◦920. ARTICLE 120. RAPE AND CARNAL KNOWLEDGE

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife, by force and without consent, [u]is guilty of rape and shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct

(b) Any person subject to this chapter who, under circumstances not amounting to rape, commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife who has not attained the age of sixteen years, [u]is guilty of carnal knowledge and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct


I gather by the very fact you have posted the article, you actually believe in them.

That being the case, what then of an incident that happened on March 16th 1968, a platoon (not to be confused with a British Platoon which is considerably smaller in number) of US soldiers (well that’s what they called them) entered a Village in Vietnam and raped, mutilated, shot and tortured what was later reported as up to 504 predominantly elderly women and children, some of the children where found after having their throats cut by the brave US warriors. 1 platoon fired on the civilian population on entry to the Village of MY LAI even though the victims where clearly elderly and children as the younger women and men where busy working in the rice fields at the time. Of all those that took part in this horrific, cowardly inhuman act only one went to trial by Court Martial, this lump of shit was second Lieutenant William Calley, who after being found guilty was awarded Life imprisonment at hard labour. This American Hero served no more than 3 years for his major part in the heinous crime committed by him and those under his command.


I am mentioning this now as quite a while back rockonbrother posted something similar and I responded in the same fashion as I am now. Instead of acting as I think any decent person would he set about justifying what those US scumbags did in an unarmed civilian village in a Country they had no right to be in.
Incidentally similar acts happened in other Villages

Now he is telling us about what he thinks is the rightful treatment of perpetrators of Rape, and that is up to the death penalty. So tell me Roc, will you still defend those cowardly lumps of shit that committed the worst crimes in that war. Or is what you have recently posted without meaning.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Tue Feb 05, 2013 2:04 pm

bobby wrote:
Rockonbrother, First let me thank you for your research regarding the US Military legal stance on rape.


]•Sub Chapter 10. Punitive Articles
◦920. ARTICLE 120. RAPE AND CARNAL KNOWLEDGE

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife, by force and without consent, is guilty of rape and shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct

(b) Any person subject to this chapter who, under circumstances not amounting to rape, commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife who has not attained the age of sixteen years, is guilty of carnal knowledge and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct


I gather by the very fact you have posted the article, you actually believe in them.

Correct. Insofar as Article 120 extends, I “believe in” it. The implied exclusion as a victim of a female that is his wife (“a female not his wife”) ought to be addressed. The implied exclusion of female perpetrators ought also to be addressed, even though the likelihood of a female committing rape in statistically insignificant.

Rape, in my view, is in a category of egregiousness just below murder and voluntary manslaughter, and thus ought to be punished by at the least life in prison (maximum security) without the possibility of parole.  

bobby wrote:
That being the case, what then of an incident that happened on March 16th 1968,  a platoon (not to be confused with a British Platoon which is considerably smaller in number) of US soldiers (well that’s what they called them) entered a Village in Vietnam and raped, mutilated, shot and tortured what was later reported as up to 504 predominantly elderly women and children, some of the children where found after having their throats cut by the brave US warriors. 1 platoon fired on the civilian population on entry to the Village of MY LAI even though the victims where clearly elderly and children as the younger women and men where busy working in the rice fields at the time. Of all those that took part in this horrific, cowardly inhuman act only one went to trial by Court Martial, this lump of shit was second Lieutenant William Calley, who after being found guilty was awarded Life imprisonment at hard labour. This American Hero served no more than 3 years for his major part  in the heinous crime committed by him and those under his command.


I am mentioning this now as quite a while back  rockonbrother posted something similar and I responded in the same fashion as I am now. Instead of acting as I think any decent person would he set about justifying what those US scumbags did in an unarmed civilian village in a Country they had no right to be in.
Incidentally similar acts happened in other Villages

Now he is telling us about what he thinks is the rightful treatment of perpetrators of Rape, and that is up to the death penalty. So tell me Roc, will you still defend those cowardly lumps of shit that committed the worst crimes in that war. Or is what you have recently posted without meaning.


Read.

RockOnBrother, Tuesday, 24 January 2012 at 15:18
from Marine faces 3 months in brig for Iraqi deaths: has justice been served? in Law And Order
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t315-marine-faces-3-months-in-brig-for-iraqi-deaths-has-justice-been-served#8223

Marine faces 3 months in brig for Iraqi deaths
By JULIE WATSON | Associated Press – 46 mins ago

CAMP PENDLETON, California (AP) — Military prosecutors worked for more than six years to bring [31-year-old] Marine Staff Sgt. Frank Wuterich to trial on manslaughter charges that could have sent him away to prison for life.

But only weeks after the long-awaited trial started, they offered Wuterich a deal that stopped the proceedings and could mean little to no jail time for the squad leader who ordered his men to "shoot first, ask questions later," resulting in one of the Iraq War's worst attacks on civilians by U.S. troops.

[Wuterich] pleaded guilty Monday to negligent dereliction of duty for leading the squad that killed 24 unarmed Iraqi civilians in the town of Haditha in 2005 during raids after a roadside bomb exploded, killing a fellow Marine and wounding two others.

Wuterich, who was indicted in 19 of the 24 deaths, now faces no more than three months in confinement.

Full story: http://news.yahoo.com/marine-faces-3-months-brig-iraqi-deaths-081536305.html
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I’ve one observation: U.S. and Iraqi procedural rules most likely substantially differ. If, after serving whatever minimum time (if any) to which he is sentenced under the UCMJ, Wuterich were to be extradited to Iraq at the request of the government of Iraq, this intentional manslaughterer might actually be served up a portion of justice in the country in which he orchestrated injustice.
RockOnBrother, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 at 5:46
from Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed? in World Issues
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t407-should-the-perpetrator-of-the-kandahar-massacre-be-tried-in-afghanistan-and-executed#13137

BBC NEWS ASIA
12 March 2012 Last updated at 13:01 ET

How it happened: Massacre in Kandahar

In the pre-dawn hours of Sunday, a US soldier stationed at a base in Afghanistan's Kandahar province allegedly launched a single-handed gun attack on nearby Afghan villagers

The soldier… is said to have broken into three homes in three different locations in Panjwai district - the villages of Alkozai and Najeeban and another settlement known locally as "Ibrahim Khan Houses".

… by the end of the attack, 16 people, nine of them children, were dead and five wounded. Some of the bodies had been set on fire.

Full BBC print story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-17334643
__________________________________________________________________________________________

Should the perpetrator be tried in Afghanistan?

Yes. Upon apprehension and positive identification, he should be handed over to Afghan authorities as soon as possible. As a U.S. serviceman who has spit and defecated upon his uniform and his country, he deserves no consideration whatsoever from U.S. authorities. Insofar as I’m concerned, he abdicated U.S. citizenship when he murdered the first innocent soul.


Should the perpetrator be executed?

Yes. If Afghan authorities do not do so, then he should be tried under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Upon conviction, he should be speedily executed by whatever means are available under UCMJ.

As soon as I find his name, I’ll post it on this thread. There is no excuse, there is no “reason why”, there is no acceptable explanation. This is despicable, immoral bestiality, pure and simple, and this beast deserves to be removed from existence as soon as is possible given whatever constraints of due process are necessary.


Note: BBC News is the United Kingdom’s gift to people worldwide who want real news.
RockOnBrother, Tuesday, 13 March 2012 at 16:31
from Should the perpetrator of the Kandahar massacre be tried in Afghanistan and executed? in World Issues
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t407-should-the-perpetrator-of-the-kandahar-massacre-be-tried-in-afghanistan-and-executed#13183

Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ)

http://www.ucmj.us/


802. ARTICLE 2. PERSONS SUBJECT TO THIS CHAPTER
01. General Provisions

(a) The following persons are subject to this chapter:

(1) Members of a regular component of the armed forces…

http://www.ucmj.us/sub-chapter-1-general-provisions/802-article-2-persons-subject-to-this-chapter


918. ARTICLE 118. MURDER
10. Punitive Articles

Any person subject to this chapter whom without justification or excuse, unlawfully kills a human being, when he- -

(1) has a premeditated design to kill;

(2) intends to kill or inflict great bodily harm;

(3) is engaged in an act which is inherently dangerous to others and evinces a wanton disregard of human life; or

(4) is engaged in the perpetration or attempted perpetration of burglary, sodomy, rape, robbery, or aggravated arson;

is guilty of murder, and shall suffer such punishment as a court-martial may direct, except that if found guilty under clause (1) or (4), he shall suffer death or imprisonment for life as a court-martial may direct.

http://www.ucmj.us/sub-chapter-10-punitive-articles/918-article-118-murder


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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by bobby on Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:49 pm

Rockonbrother, are you now agreeing that the animals who perpetrated the atrocity at My Lai should have faced the full force of the law?
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by willingsniper on Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:55 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
willingsniper wrote:
taliban and al qaida cowards employ rape as a tool of war.
So does the US.

Comparison is inappropriate, improper, and incorrect.

taliban and al qaida cowards face applause for raping innocent women; in an incident documented by Reuters, a taliban coward faced applause for placing nine rounds into the head of an innocent woman after first kidnapping and gang-raping her.

RockOnBrother, Monday, 9 July 2012 at 18:49
from Female human rights in Moslem cultures in World Issues
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t580-female-human-rights-in-moslem-cultures#23184

Taliban publicly execute woman near Kabul to cheers of jubilation from watching men

By Hamid Shalizi and Amie Ferris-Rotman

KABUL – Saturday, 7 July 2012, 7:04 PM BST

KABUL (Reuters) - A man Afghan officials say is a member of the Taliban shot dead a woman accused of adultery in front of a crowd near Kabul, a video obtained by Reuters showed, a sign that the austere Islamist group dictates law even near the Afghan capital.

In the three-minute video, a turban-clad man approaches a woman kneeling in the dirt and shoots her five times at close range with an automatic rifle, to cheers of jubilation from the 150 or so men watching in a village in Parwan province.

"Allah warns us not to get close to adultery because it's the wrong way," another man says as the shooter gets closer to the woman. "It is the order of Allah that she be executed".

… [this public punishment] raised concern about the treatment of Afghan women 11 years into the NATO-led war against Taliban insurgents.

When the unnamed woman, most of her body tightly wrapped in a shawl, fell sideways after being shot several times in the head, the spectators chanted: "Long live the Afghan mujahideen! (Islamist fighters)", a name the Taliban use for themselves.

Full Reuters story: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/07/07/us-afghanistan-taliban-woman-idUKBRE8660C320120707

Video: Taliban publicly execute woman near Kabul
http://www.youtube.com/v/vCV61MYdRj8

United States troops face death.

RockOnBrother, Thursday, 31 January 2013 at 22:04
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t775-women-in-combat-rape-waiting-to-happen#33579

Uniform Code of Military Justice

•Sub Chapter 10. Punitive Articles
◦920. ARTICLE 120. RAPE AND CARNAL KNOWLEDGE

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife, by force and without consent, is guilty of rape and shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

Continuing…

willingsniper wrote:
The United States military justice system punishes military personnel for rape.

See above

See below.

RockOnBrother, Thursday, 31 January 2013 at 22:04
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t775-women-in-combat-rape-waiting-to-happen#33579

Uniform Code of Military Justice

•Sub Chapter 10. Punitive Articles
◦920. ARTICLE 120. RAPE AND CARNAL KNOWLEDGE

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife, by force and without consent, is guilty of rape and shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

Respectfully, you have no idea what your talking about. And you may feel free to cherry pick cases from the internet, but it doesn't even scratch the surface.
Most of the instances of rape, and gang rape go unreported. You can go by what you read, I go by what I have seen, and lived.
Most of the time troops won't turn their brothers in. And when you do, you become a pariah. Something you don't want in theater.
Everyone is heavily armed, and if they feel you don't have their backs, well accidents happen. Besides command has better things to do than listen to your whiny ass give up your brother because he got some.

Rockon, I am not saying that all of our troops are evil. What I am saying is that we have been deployed for two and three tours. We have next to no contact with real life. A different morality starts to creep in.

Please feel free to post some article about how above reproach our military justice system is. I mean if I paints US as angels and redeemers, and makes you feel better.

Let the pissing match continue.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by willingsniper on Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:58 pm

RockOnBrother, Thursday, 31 January 2013 at 22:04
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t775-women-in-combat-rape-waiting-to-happen#33579

Uniform Code of Military Justice

•Sub Chapter 10. Punitive Articles
◦920. ARTICLE 120. RAPE AND CARNAL KNOWLEDGE

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife, by force and without consent, is guilty of rape and shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

And no one speeds because there are laws against it? Oh, and everyone that does gets caught, and is brought to justice.

Nice argument.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by willingsniper on Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:06 pm

If women choose to risk their lives to serve their country, they should not be prevented from doing so.

To prevent them would infringe on their one their liberty.

Liberty is one of the things we have fought for since our country's inception.

I would be proud to fight beside any woman who made the choice to fight beside me.

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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by bobby on Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:31 pm

Rockonbrother, I asked you a simple question, yet you try to sidestep it by offering other cases all totally unrelated to the My Lai atrocity, so I ask again.

Rockonbrother, are you now agreeing that the animals who perpetrated the atrocity at My Lai should have faced the full force of the law?
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by bambu on Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:29 pm

In a world that worships beauty, good luck to any female war veteran minus limbs, with a burnt/disfigured face, etc...or ones raped/tortured by the enemy and rescued.
They'll need it...it's a cruel, cruel word.

"Out of the way, cripple" young people said to an elderly woman who was waiting to board a train in Sydney....she rang the talkback radio.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:46 am

willingsniper wrote:
RockOnBrother, Thursday, 31 January 2013 at 22:04
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t775-women-in-combat-rape-waiting-to-happen#33579

Uniform Code of Military Justice

•Sub Chapter 10. Punitive Articles
◦920. ARTICLE 120. RAPE AND CARNAL KNOWLEDGE

(a) Any person subject to this chapter who commits an act of sexual intercourse with a female not his wife, by force and without consent, is guilty of rape and shall be punished by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.
And no one speeds because there are laws against it?

Red herring. There are laws against rape in the state in which you reside; there are persons charged with rape, convicted of rape, and serving time for rape in the state in which you reside.

willingsniper wrote:
Respectfully, you have no idea what your talking about.

Yes I do.

willingsniper wrote:
… command has better things to do than listen to your whiny ass give up your brother because he got some.

Your words speak for who you are and what you believe; “he got some” and “he raped one or more innocent women” are two different sentences conveying two different sets of facts.


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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:00 am

bobby wrote:
Rockonbrother, I asked you a simple question, yet you try to sidestep it by offering other cases all totally unrelated to the My Lai atrocity, so I ask again.

Rockonbrother, are you now agreeing that the animals who perpetrated the atrocity at My Lai should have faced the full force of the law?

See RockOnBrother’s post, Tuesday, 5 February 2013 at 16:21 (click here to view).
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by willingsniper on Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:26 am

Your words speak for who you are and what you believe; “he got some” and “he raped one or more innocent women” are two different sentences conveying two different sets of facts.

I was speaking from the view of command. I am speaking from the experience of what I have seen, and lived through.

Again you have no idea what your talking about. But please copy, and paste some more. If nothing else it's entertaining.
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:36 am

willingsniper wrote:
Your words speak for who you are and what you believe; “he got some” and “he raped one or more innocent women” are two different sentences conveying two different sets of facts.

I was speaking from the view of command.

You have spoken the words without any such qualification; accordingly, until you specifically and clearly state otherwise, the conclusion stands.

willingsniper wrote:
Again you have no idea what your talking about.

Yes I do.

willingsniper wrote:
… it's entertaining.

I do not consider rape “entertaining.”
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by willingsniper on Wed Feb 06, 2013 6:22 am

I do not consider rape “entertaining.”

No one said rape was entertaining.

What is entertaining though, is your copy paste side show.

Be sure to pack a coat for your trip to the moral high ground.

I'm finished here. I am sure you're not though Mr. know nothing.

Now have the last word, so you don't lose any sleep.





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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Wed Feb 06, 2013 7:15 am

willingsniper wrote:
I do not consider rape “entertaining.”
What is entertaining though, is your copy paste side show.

The core topics of the “copy” (the initiating article; a news story regarding taliban kidnapping, raping, and murdering an innocent woman; a news story regarding a US marine leading a squad that murdered civilians; a news story regarding a US soldier that murdered civilians; two UCMJ references concerning definitions of and punishments for rape and murder) that has been “pasted” hereon are rape and murder; accordingly, if one finds the “copy and paste” hereon “entertaining”, and since the core topics of the “copy and paste” are rape and murder, then one finds rape and murder “entertaining.”

I do not find rape and murder “entertaining.”
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by bobby on Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:44 am

Rockonbrother, This is the third time of asking for a simple answer( and I don't expect it to be the last), or is it that you think by engaging in written filibustering you are impressing me, Well let me tell you, you aint, but are showing yourself to be a bigot and a hypocrite, I am not at all impressed. Now as for the simple I repeat “simple” question.

Rockonbrother, are you now agreeing that the animals who perpetrated the atrocity at My Lai should have faced the full force of the law?


Now be a good boy, get yourself an atlas, and you will see just where Vietnam is and its nowhere near that list of places where other US soldiers committed even more atrocities
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:29 pm

Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

The philosophy backing such a question is thousands of years old, traceable to the myth of Amazon Warriors, perpetuated through mediaeval notions of Chivalry, and the description applied by our Victorian ancestors: "A Fate worse than Death!"



Can anyhone seriously suggest in the 21st. Century that there are fates which exceed Death in their intensity?

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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Wed Feb 06, 2013 12:34 pm

bobby wrote:
Rockonbrother, This is the third time of asking for a simple answer( and I don't expect it to be the last), or is it that you think by engaging in written  filibustering you are impressing me, Well let me tell you, you aint, but are showing yourself to be a bigot and a hypocrite, I am not at all impressed. Now as for the simple I repeat “simple” question.

Rockonbrother, are you now agreeing that the animals who perpetrated the atrocity at My Lai should have faced the full force of the law?


Now be a good boy, get yourself an atlas, and you will see just where Vietnam is and its nowhere near that list of places where other US  soldiers committed even more atrocities

Again (final time on this thread regarding underlined text above): See RockOnBrother’s post, Tuesday, 5 February 2013 at 16:21, click here to view (on the thread “Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?” in USA Politics at http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t775-women-in-combat-rape-waiting-to-happen#33789).
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by bobby on Wed Feb 06, 2013 4:00 pm

Rockonbrother: Now for the fourth time of asking a very simple question, would it be possible to get a strait answer from you. I ask a question about a particular incident, and all you can do is to post incidents which happened one in Kandahar which is around 3000 miles from Vietnam or Iraq which is about 4000 miles from Vietnam. Now I appreciate these figures may not mean much to a person from the State that usually claim that everything is big in Texas.

Again and I expect not for the last time, This is about the rape, murder and mutilation of innocent civilians in My Lai, Vietnam. Where a platoon of Brave Us troops committed many atrocities on up to 504 civilians most elderly women and children.

So now . Please answer my question, or do some of us a great favour, and do not make anymore posts regarding the rights and wrongs of rape, murder or mutilation. As far as I am concerned you have no right on a debating forum when you will not debate, or answer a genuine question based on something you actually said.
Rockonbrother, are you now agreeing that the animals who perpetrated the atrocity at My Lai should have faced the full force of the law?
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Re: Women in combat: Rape waiting to happen?

Post by ROB on Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:03 pm

Shirina wrote:
The “issue of rape” is an assault issue; the “issue of rape” is an extreme violence against persons issue; the “issue of rape” is a long term, often lifelong, deep psychological damage issue.
Rape is just another form of torture…

Rape is a specific form of torture, not “just” another form. As a man immune to vaginal rape and not particularly susceptible to rape of any form, I cannot even begin to fathom the psychological horror of having one’s most intimate organ callously and brutally violated. I cannot accept the premise that rape is comparable to other forms of torture.

Shirina wrote:
… both men and women are often tortured as POWs.

As implied in my comments above, female POWs are almost certainly subjected to vaginal rape, a form of torture to which male POWs cannot be subjected.

Shirina wrote:
Torture in its many forms always leave life-long, deep psychological damage. Just being in combat can do that.

As a male, I can be left with life-long, deep psychological damage from other forms of torture; female warriors, in contrast, can be left with life-long, deep psychological damage from other forms of torture and rape.

Shirina wrote:
I'm not trying to downplay the severity of rape, not in the least, but when rape is put into the context of war, it is not any worse than any other form of torture.

I must disagree; female warriors are inherently in double jeopardy.
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