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Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

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Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by tlttf on Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:16 am

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Fantastic article from the "New Statesman", sums up politics as is?

Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

All parties love the easy, polarising rhetoric of “us” against “them” – but how distinct are their ideas?

By Rafael Behr, Published 31 January 2013

There is a reliable way to tell if David Cameron is rattled. When the Prime Minister is on shaky ground, he hurls the charge of being “left-wing” at Ed Miliband as if it were the foulest thing he could say within the bounds of parliamentary protocol. The “Red Ed” label has never been a plausible line of attack but it is a comforting fiction for senior Conservatives who deride the Labour leader’s agenda as a slide into unelectable socialism.

Take time out from tribalism and read the article!

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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Redflag on Tue Aug 20, 2013 12:35 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Various correspondents to this message-board seem to think that there is no "dividing line" between political parties, who simply await "Buggins' turn" to hold office.

Do you think that The Electorate share such an opinion, Steve?
I agree with what you have said OW, I do not believe the Electorate will not share their opinion OW.

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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by skwalker1964 on Tue Aug 20, 2013 11:20 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Various correspondents to this message-board seem to think that there is no "dividing line" between political parties, who simply await "Buggins' turn" to hold office.

Do you think that The Electorate share such an opinion, Steve?
I fear that many do - and that many of our politicians do too little to change that perception.
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by sickchip on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:53 am

Following the recent 'Miranda' episode, and the state's abuse of supposed 'anti-terroist' laws, it is apparent that 'elected' governments be they Labour, Tory, or Lib-Dem are just a front for the real forces of power and their continuing neo-liberal agenda.
 
Surveillance is being routinely abused to curtail your freedom and pervert democracy.
 
It's all about preventing change, or a 'real' challenge that provides a genuine alternative, to the current forces of power and our current systems of government. They will not relinquish power at any price.
 
Government has become a paranoid enterprise primarily focused on oppression and 'control'. In fact they don't govern us - they control us......keep us in place. Any 'real' opposition will be crushed by any means necessary.
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:49 pm

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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Redflag on Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:31 pm

Ivan wrote:I may be wrong, but it looks to me as if Ed Miliband hates Cameron as much as most of us:-
 
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That look is of nothing less than PURE HATE from Ed Miliband he looks how we all feel.
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:57 pm

Did you ever wish that you could piss upon someone from a great height?
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Redflag on Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:34 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Did you ever wish that you could piss upon someone from a great height?
Would love to know what Ed is thinking in that photo OW but could guess that whatever it does look rather evil never thought that Ed had that in him.
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Ivan on Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:20 pm

Can anyone spot a difference between the Tories and Labour in the following three paragraphs? Rolling Eyes 
 
During the 1992 general election, the Conservatives promised not to extend the scope of VAT, but in March 1993, Lamont announced that domestic fuel and power, which had previously been zero-rated, would have VAT levied at 8% from April 1994 and the full 17.5% from April 1995.

In its 1997 general election manifesto, the Labour Party pledged to reduce VAT on domestic fuel and power to 5%. After gaining power, the new Labour chancellor, Gordon Brown, announced in June 1997 that the lower rate of VAT on domestic fuel and power would be reduced from 8% to 5% with effect from 1 September 1997.

In the run up to the 2010 general election there were reports that the Conservatives would raise VAT if they gained power. The party denied the reports. Following the election in May 2010, the Conservatives formed a coalition government with the Liberal Democrats, and in June 2010 Conservative chancellor George Osborne announced that the standard rate of VAT would increase from 17.5% to 20% with effect from 4 January 2011.

 
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Bellatori on Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:06 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Did you ever wish that you could piss upon someone from a great height?
I think you are very close... I think Ed was thinking 'Now what would I be expected to do if he spontaneously conflagrated... Could I claim the zip stuck?"

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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Redflag on Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:34 pm

Ivan wrote:Can anyone spot a difference between the Tories and Labour in the following three paragraphs? Rolling Eyes 
 
During the 1992 general election, the Conservatives promised not to extend the scope of VAT, but in March 1993, Lamont announced that domestic fuel and power, which had previously been zero-rated, would have VAT levied at 8% from April 1994 and the full 17.5% from April 1995.

In its 1997 general election manifesto, the Labour Party pledged to reduce VAT on domestic fuel and power to 5%. After gaining power, the new Labour chancellor, Gordon Brown, announced in June 1997 that the lower rate of VAT on domestic fuel and power would be reduced from 8% to 5% with effect from 1 September 1997.

In the run up to the 2010 general election there were reports that the Conservatives would raise VAT if they gained power. The party denied the reports. Following the election in May 2010, the Conservatives formed a coalition government with the Liberal Democrats, and in June 2010 Conservative chancellor George Osborne announced that the standard rate of VAT would increase from 17.5% to 20% with effect from 4 January 2011.

 
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Good post Ivan the first two are what Labour party said they would do and did carry it out, the third one is the Tory policy that they LIED through their back teeth about until they had pulled the wool over the eyes of the UK publc then they did raise the VAT. LYING SCUMBAGS. There will be no kidding the voters in May 2015 too many of the UK public have seen through all the Tory LIES and I will be out there helping the Labour party do better in the 2015 general election than Tony Blair did in 1997, so Cameron better get used to being called the "One Term PM":yeahthat:
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:41 pm

As is customary in politics, the reasons put forward for a tax are not quite so reasonable upon investigation. VAT had its origins as a Luxury Tax, on things like fur coats and expensive cars. Nobody could seriously describe gas and electricity as "luxuries", and VAT has the harshest impact upon the poor, whose every expenditure is an essential.

Wealthy people can exercise discretion over what they will buy, and essentials form a minor part of their overall budget.
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Redflag on Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:55 am

Well said OW but the people that are having to manage on  buttons that pass for wages it is a different story, they this winter will have to decide whether to keep warm or eat.:yeahthat:
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:56 am

There has never been a better time to reign in the fat-cat Energy Suppliers, who have raised their charges by 8% or 10% in a year when their wholesale cost has increased by only 2%. Has Ed Miliband embarassed the Coalition sufficiently to force them into action or must he keeep up the pressure?
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Redflag on Tue Oct 29, 2013 7:47 pm

Ed Miliband intends to keep up the pressure, Caroline Flint was on the news tonight repeating Eds pledge that they will freeze the prices for 20 months, then he will fix the market and get a body in that has teeth that bite unlike Ofgem that is a gumless wonder.
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Ivan on Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:23 am

The next election will be different from previous ones because if you don’t like this government, there is only one realistic alternative. I doubt if the former Liberal Democrat supporter who wrote this is unique:-
 
“I hate Tories for many reasons: for lining the pockets of the rich, for hammering the poor, for what they did to the miners, for welfare cuts, for privatisation, for deregulation of financial services, for selling council houses, for alienating the North of England, Wales and Scotland, for their born to rule mentality, for being hopelessly out of touch with the needs of most people, for creating free schools and for a thousand more reasons.

I hate Cameron and his Tory cronies because they support the rich whilst penalising or victimising the poor in a way that is completely unfair and morally bankrupt. I also hate them because the Tories are bloody successful at getting their message across – by propagating fear and loathing to base instincts of many people – driven home through a manipulative right-wing media.

The party that was my natural habitat suddenly jumped into bed with the party that I hate. They have allowed the Tories to do terrible things I do not want to be associated with, whilst showing such a complete disdain for me and many other Liberal Democrats – forcing many of us to have no choice but to leave.

Sadly therefore, my main objective in May 2015 is to vote with vengeance and hate. This is hardly the most analytical or positive statement of intent. I don’t care. To get those bastards out of office, it matters more to me to see the Tories lose than to see another party win.

Hate is a horrible thing. But the Tories are even more horrible than hate, and that is why I hate them.”

 
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Redflag on Sun Nov 24, 2013 7:27 am

Ivan wrote:The next election will be different from previous ones because if you don’t like this government, there is only one realistic alternative. I doubt if the former Liberal Democrat supporter who wrote this is unique:-
 
“The party that was my natural habitat suddenly jumped into bed with the party that I hate. They have allowed the Tories to do terrible things I do not want to be associated with, whilst showing such a complete disdain for me and many other Liberal Democrats – forcing many of us to have no choice but to leave.

Sadly therefore, my main objective in May 2015 is to vote with vengeance and hate. This is hardly the most analytical or positive statement of intent. I don’t care. To get those bastards out of office, it matters more to me to see the Tories lose than to see another party win.”
 
IVAN its a pity some of the Lib-Dem MPs did not see things the same way,  who ever wrote this forgot two things 1) the reason they get things across is through nothing more than LYING through their back teeth 2) the one word they do not understand or believe it exists is TRUTH.:yeahthat:
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:05 pm

I don't want to sound unnecessarily brutal, but I think we can discount any effect which the Liberal Democrat Party might have upon voters at the next General Election.
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Redflag on Mon Nov 25, 2013 10:05 am

oftenwrong wrote: I think we can discount any effect which the Liberal Democrat Party might have upon voters at the next General Election.
 
After what they have done to the voters of the UK you are quite correct OW, plus the LIES they told in 2010 to get our vote the people will just look at them and split their sides laughing when a Lib-Dem asks for their vote.:yeahthat:
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Penderyn on Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:19 pm

skwalker1964 wrote:The dividing line is pretty clear and simple. If you're on the side of ordinary people, especially the most vulnerable, you can vote Labour, or perhaps Green.

If you don't give a stuff for them, and actually rather like a bit of bashing the disabled, unemployed etc - and of course you think the rich are entitled to keep as much of their wealth as they can get away with, no matter what's happening to 'the 99%', then you'll vote Tory, or perhaps UKIP.

The rest is detail.
That's the sensible dividing line. Unfortunately far too many of the ordinary people devote their minds to imbibing the Mail and other capitalist bilge, and many minnows believe they are big bold sharks. The problem of ideology is very real, and it took near-starvation and two world wars to wake the majority up last time, sod it!
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:47 pm

The problem with "ordinary people" voting for continuation of government by the Toffs, Penderyn, is that they seem to think some sort of reward will emerge from their toadying.

How many times do such people have to hit themselves with a hammer before realising how painful the result always is?
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Penderyn on Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:58 pm

oftenwrong wrote:The problem with "ordinary people" voting for continuation of government by the Toffs, Penderyn, is that they seem to think some sort of reward will emerge from their toadying.

How many times do such people have to hit themselves with a hammer before realising how painful the result always is?
Very, very many, alas!
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Redflag on Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:21 am

Penderyn wrote:
oftenwrong wrote:The problem with "ordinary people" voting for continuation of government by the Toffs, Penderyn, is that they seem to think some sort of reward will emerge from their toadying.

How many times do such people have to hit themselves with a hammer before realising how painful the result always is?
Very, very many, alas!

OW & Penderyn let us hope that this Tory gov't has given the people of the UK the final hammer blow and brought them to there senses bloody damn quicker than normal.pokenest 
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:33 pm

If you agree with the suggestion that we get the Government we deserve, then many of us must have been very very naughty in the years running up to the last General Election.
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Phil Hornby on Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:21 pm

Life has given me far more than I ever deserved - and I am still angry with the activities of this Coalition.

Heaven knows how I would be feeling if I was actively a victim, like so many thousands of poor b*ggers...   Mad
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Penderyn on Tue Nov 26, 2013 4:41 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:Life has given me far more than I ever deserved - and I am still angry with the activities of this Coalition.

Heaven knows how I would be feeling if I was actively a victim, like so many thousands of poor b*ggers...   Mad
You might be feeling utterly hopeless, since the scumbags manage, though their media, to suggest that everyone supports them.
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:05 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:Life has given me far more than I ever deserved - and I am still angry with the activities of this Coalition.

Heaven knows how I would be feeling if I was actively a victim, like so many thousands of poor b*ggers...   Mad
Our situation since the vile Coalition was formed reminds me frequently of a quotation:

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" is often attributed to Edmund Burke. Although it has not been found in his speeches, writings, or letters (and is thus apocryphal), in 1770 he wrote in Thoughts on the Cause of the Present Discontents that "when bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle.

Edmund Burke was often referred to as the originator of Conservatism. How far we are fallen.
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by boatlady on Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:27 pm

The tragic thing, for me, about the current 'austerity' politics is that, like the old Poor Laws, they are robbing vulnerable and poor people of their self respect and their hope for the future.

The relentless nature of the persecution people are subjected to beggars belief, from sick and disabled people having 6 monthly reviews of their entitlement to benefit, to unemployed people having to 'hand in' their record of jobs applied for and losing benefit if it is not to the liking of the job centre clerk they hand it to.

Claiming a benefit, people will often be given the wrong instructions, leading to delays in payment and often loss of benefit. Overpayments from before 2000 are still being chased up and deducted from people's benefits.

Council Tax arrears of as little as £50 are resulting in Court action and visits from the bailiffs.

Some people are so far in debt to the government (not even payday lenders) that they can't see any future.
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Penderyn on Tue Nov 26, 2013 5:48 pm

boatlady wrote:The tragic thing, for me, about the current 'austerity' politics is that, like the old Poor Laws, they are robbing vulnerable and poor people of their self respect and their hope for the future.
 
It fills me with black rage, but what are we to do if no single political party will fight?   I have (very mild) hopes for the 30th November!
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:14 pm

Maybe we should all - all of us - join Alex Salmond and secede from The Union!
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Redflag on Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:49 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Maybe we should all - all of us - join Alex Salmond and secede from The Union!
If I was you I would not bother OW Salmond is just as big a LIAR as the Tories :yeahthat: 
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Bellatori on Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:58 pm

If the Scots vote AGAINST independence then we will have Alec Salmond to thank IMHO...

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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Phil Hornby on Wed Nov 27, 2013 7:52 am

However big a "liar" Alex Salmond is, how I wish we had somebody south of the border as skilled in articulating opposition to the curse of the Conservatives...
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:43 am

"Charisma" Who has or had it among the politicians?

Churchill, Enoch Powell, JFK, and now Boris and Alex

It's a short list. Who've I left out?

From History, Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Columbus, Saladin, Napoleon, Nelson .... and Hitler.
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Ivan on Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:51 am

Who've I left out?
 
Pierre Trudeau, Bill Clinton and maybe Tony Blair? scratch
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by bobby on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:42 pm

Who've I left out?

Benito Amilcare Andrea Mussolini
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Redflag on Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:45 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:However big a "liar" Alex Salmond is, how I wish we had somebody south of the border as skilled in articulating opposition to the curse of the Conservatives...

That would be no use to you PH, because just like DC Salmond gets caught out in his LIES as us Scots have found him out :yeahthat: 
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Dan Fante on Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:48 pm

I heard about this on the radio yesterday and was searching for a suitable article:

Local government cuts unfair to north-east, say councils
The average council in the north-east will lose £665 per person against £305 in the south-east by 2017-18
Councils in the north-east of England will lose more than twice as much funding per person as those in the south-east over the next five years, according to a local government lobby group which says government cuts are widening England's economic divide.

A group of mainly urban councils says its calculations, based on cuts already pushed through and changes in local funding to come, suggest the average council in the north-east will lose £665 per person, compared with £305 in the south-east, by 2017-18.
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This basically sums up one of the reasons why I would never vote Tory. They have an absolute disdain for us lot.
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Redflag on Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:05 pm

You have the right idea Dan Fante, for all the disdain they have for us lot they are still expecting us to vote Tory in 2015, and of course Ingham's statement of us Northerners being demented because we do not vote for Tory MPs "HOW BRAINY US NORTHERNERS REALLY ARE"   :yeahthat:
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Dan Fante on Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:51 pm

I welcome Ingham's moronic comments (and his eyebrows) in a way since they can only further damage Tory credibility.
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by Phil Hornby on Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:42 pm

Oh, definitely.

 It is much like appearances on TV by John Redwood - it makes me want to put my boot through the screen but , simultaneously, it brings home to the public just what a weird creep the chap actually is.

 And that effect applies to so many of the Tory breed - Porky Pickles, Sanctimonious Green, Weedy Gove, the Unbearable Duncan Smith to name but a few...
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Re: Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:30 pm

There are obvious parallels with the discredited Major administration of 1992 to 1997, the "Sleaze Government".

MPs are ever bolder with expenses claims, and the question is when, rather than whether, the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority becomes overwhelmed by the number of investigations running.

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