Global warming - it's happening much faster than we think!

[Stox 16]

The usual suspects complaining that the Antarctic ice is growing, when you take the whole area covered into account you would see it increases on sea every winter and decreases in the summer time.  Nothing unusual regarding this, it’s the seasonal changes.

Over the last few decades we have seen the Antarctic cover more sea level ice, due to increased wind activity in the region for whatever reason.  This has pushed the ice to spread out that little but further.

However, the land ice that covers the land under the Antarctic has decreased dramatically.  Something that the sceptics will always avoid talking about as it puts a massive hole in their theory that climate change is simply not happening.  The usual 2/2.5 miles deep ice covers land has dropped down to around 2 miles at its highest.

Here is a link for a full explanation. So what do you believe is happening? does this matter too you? or are you not worried at all?

http://www.skepticalscience.com/antarctica-gaining-ice-intermediate.htm

[astra]

Hello Stox,

I have not read the link - will get round to it. This smacks to me of the happenings to the Gulf Stream (North Atlantic Drift) and the Jet Stream miles above it. Apparently getting farther South year on year and affecting our Weather Patterns.

I just feel that mother nature has been at this for a long time and yes we are buggering up the air, and this could have been sorted out by agreements after the war - the technology existed then - just too expensive!
ME?? According to Google Earth, my house is 170 feet above sea level so I am allright Jackie! (as is said in these parts)

[astra]

Hello Stox,

I have not read the link - will get round to it. This smacks to me of the happenings to the Gulf Stream (North Atlantic Drift) and the Jet Stream miles above it. Apparently getting farther South year on year and affecting our Weather Patterns.

I just feel that mother nature has been at this for a long time and yes we are buggering up the air, and this could have been sorted out by agreements after the war - the technology existed then - just too expensive!
ME?? According to Google Earth, my house is 170 feet above sea level so I am allright Jackie! (as is said in these parts)

[Stox 16]

Hello Astra
             I do wonder where we are heading too astra. I sometime think nature is losing the battle with us humans. I wonder what the out come will be if we do not start too do something about it. the trouble is no one government really wishes to take the lead on this due to there own economy's do they?

[oftenwrong]

God grant me serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.

[Shirina]

God grant me serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.

And the intelligence to formulate a plan to change the things I can ...
And the foresight to know the consequences if I sit and do nothing ...
And the rationality to know that sometimes an futile attempt can still be for the greater good

I really don't understand why it matters if climate change is a result of Mankind's actions. Efforts and initiatives to preserve the planet and limit pollution will result in a positive outcome. Unfortunately, the bean counters and the profiteers are scared to death that ensuring earth doesn't become a cesspool of garbage might cost them a bit of money. There was a time when we actually gave two bits about the world we plan to bequeath to our children. Apparently greed has gotten the better of many, and now that attitude no longer seems to prevail.

Here's an anti-pollution ad that aired back in the 70's - it sends a powerful message. Today, it would be dismissed as a "liberal conspiracy."

[Stox 16]

Thanks for that Shirina, out of interest, what would you say is the General view about this issue in the US? as from over here it always comes over as mixed messages?

[fretslider]

The usual suspects complaining that the Antarctic ice is growing, when you take the whole area covered into account you would see it increases on sea every winter and decreases in the summer time. Nothing unusual regarding this, it’s the seasonal changes.

Over the last few decades we have seen the Antarctic cover more sea level ice, due to increased wind activity in the region for whatever reason. This has pushed the ice to spread out that little but further.

However, the land ice that covers the land under the Antarctic has decreased dramatically. Something that the sceptics will always avoid talking about as it puts a massive hole in their theory that climate change is simply not happening. The usual 2/2.5 miles deep ice covers land has dropped down to around 2 miles at its highest.

Here is a link for a full explanation. So what do you believe is happening? does this matter too you? or are you not worried at all?

http://www.skepticalscience.com/antarctica-gaining-ice-intermediate.htm

Never believe anyone who claims they know what is going on with the climate, because the truth is nobody does, especially the ludicrous John Cook.

John Cook, on his website Skeptical Science, stated that “the usual suspects in natural climate change – solar variations, volcanoes, Milankovitch cycles – are all conspicuous in their absence over the past three decades of warming.

Volcanoes? Has John never heard of Pinatubo’s temperature dip ? (June 15, 1991)
Milankovitch Cycles? Ummm much longer time scale than three decades John.
Solar variation? http://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/12/9581/2012/acp-12-9581-2012.pdf - just out.

Best of all, here is Glenn Tamblyn (Skeptical Science author/moderator) secretly conversing with his SkS pals on their off limits forum and saying “we need a conspiracy to save humanity”. The Viet Cong comparison is a nice touch too. There’s talk of convening a “war council” too. Unfortunately Cook forgot to exclude the public from his secret forum....

"And this isn’t about science or personal careers and reputations any more. This is a fight for survival. Our civilisations survival. .. We need our own anonymous (or not so anonymous) donors, our own think tanks…. Our Monckton’s … Our assassins.

Anyone got Bill Gates’ private number, Warren Buffett, Richard Branson? Our ‘side’ has got to get professional, ASAP. We don’t need to blog. We need to network. Every single blog, organisation, movement is like a platoon in an army. ..This has a lot of similarities to the Vietnam War….And the skeptics are the Viet Cong… Not fighting like ‘Gentlemen’ at all. And the mainstream guys like Gleick don’t know how to deal with this. Queensberry Rules rather than biting and gouging.

..So, either Mother Nature deigns to give the world a terrifying wake up call. Or people like us have to build the greatest guerilla force in human history. Now. Because time is up…Someone needs to convene a council of war of the major environmental movements, blogs, institutes etc. In a smoke filled room (OK, an incense filled room) we need a conspiracy to save humanity."

No wonder they cosy up to Lewandowsky. You gotta laugh.



"Here's an anti-pollution ad that aired back in the 70's - it sends a powerful message. Today, it would be dismissed as a "liberal conspiracy.""

CO2 is a pollutant? Really? How so?

[Jsmythe]

There are ancient maps of both poles.These maps so accurate that it is astounding by todays understanding. Even in the 1700s other maps have been made - although some I believe, were copied from the much earlier era.. What is most amazing is; These maps were made before the ice covered those areas.


It is perhaps the cycle of the way things just are. In fact this does have a hint of disapproval with how the global warming phenomenon is presented.

[Ivan]

Like a detective story, first you need a victim, in this case the planet Earth: more energy is remaining in the atmosphere. Then you need a method, and ask how the energy could be made to remain. For that, you need a provable mechanism by which energy can be trapped in the atmosphere, and greenhouse gases provide that mechanism.

Next, you need a ‘motive’. Why has this happened? Because CO2 has increased by nearly 50% in the last 150 years and the increase is from burning fossil fuels. And finally, the smoking gun, the evidence that proves ‘whodunit’: energy being trapped in the atmosphere corresponds exactly to the wavelengths of energy captured by CO2.

The last point is what places CO2 at the scene of the crime. The investigation by science builds up empirical evidence that proves, step by step, that man-made carbon dioxide is causing the Earth to warm up.

http://www.skepticalscience.com/empirical-evidence-for-global-warming.htm

Most of the people who deny global warming tend to be right-wingers who are on the side of those who are mainly interested in making a fast buck and don't care if doing so damages the planet. The overwhelming majority of scientists, something like 97%, now accept that man-made global warming is a fact, rather than a theory. It's a pity that when news outlets such as the BBC discuss the topic, they tend to interview one person from either side of this debate, creating the impression that the global warning deniers have a credible argument.

[oftenwrong]

Global warming is a Fact. Apportioning blame to the Industrial Revolution is Opinion.

Geologists and archeologists can show conclusive evidence that during the measurable lifetime of our Earth there have been many swings of temperature. Worldwide tropical climate for Dinosaurs, a couple of Ice Ages, and a modern history of fluctuations as a result of extreme volcanic activity screening the sun.

[Aspca4ever]

Right in front of the base camp - 75 minute long calving took place in Greenland --- AWESOME footage and horrifying to watch and think about too! 




BTW - I did several searches about 'GLOBAL WARMING' prior to starting this specific topic; and this is happening much faster then our recorded data from the Arctic Circle and Antarctica 

[Ivan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ChuirhVWEAEV6ym.jpg

[Ivan]

Noam Chomsky: “The Republican Party Has Become the Most Dangerous Organisation in World History”

“On Nov. 8, the World Meteorological Organisation reported that the past five years were the hottest on record. It reported rising sea levels, soon to increase as a result of the unexpectedly rapid melting of polar ice, most ominously the huge Antarctic glaciers. Already, Arctic sea ice over the past five years is 28% below the average of the previous 29 years, not only raising sea levels, but also reducing the cooling effect of polar ice reflection of solar rays, thereby accelerating the grim effects of global warming.

Another event took place on Nov. 8; the most powerful country in world history had an election. The outcome placed total control of the government in the hands of the Republican Party, which has become the most dangerous organisation in world history, dedicated to racing as rapidly as possible to destruction of organised human life. The president-elect calls for rapid increase in use of fossil fuels, including coal; dismantling of regulations; rejection of help to developing countries that are seeking to move to sustainable energy; and in general, racing to the cliff as fast as possible.

In Bangladesh alone, tens of millions are expected to have to flee from low-lying plains in coming years because of sea level rise and more severe weather, creating a migrant crisis that will make today's pale in significance. These catastrophic consequences can only increase, not just in Bangladesh, but in all of South Asia as temperatures inexorably rise and the Himalayan glaciers melt, threatening the entire water supply. Already in India, some 300 million people are reported to lack adequate drinking water. And the effects will reach far beyond.”

For the whole article:-
http://www.ecowatch.com/noam-chomsky-trump-2093271018.html

[Ivan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1a_tnLWIAEoJnA.jpg

[boatlady]

Sadly, it seems, a large number of public office holders (at least in the West) seem not to believe in climate change - or at least not to be willing to risk votes in order to do anything about it

[oftenwrong]

The problem for national governments seems to be that tackling global warming, (an inexact science) is either very expensive, inconvenient, unpopular with voters - or all three. Cameron talked a green game until he saw the bill, and swiftly rowed back from such ideas.

Without doubt, we have all been vaguely aware of a change in weather patterns. Britain since the millennium has suffered more flooding, colder winters fluctuating with milder ones, and unpredictable summers. Fact. But geological records show far greater oscillations between sub-tropical weather and ice-ages during the past million years.

So what makes us think we can do anything about it?

[Ivan]

I doubt if there is any issue which more clearly defines the difference between left and right in politics. Right-wingers are essentially vandals who will asset-strip the state for short-term gain and couldn’t care less about what their actions might do to the planet, as long as there is money to be made. The world is getting warmer, the polar ice caps continue to melt, so the sea level will rise and cause further devastation in South Asia, but why should they care? As individuals, they won’t be around in eighty to a hundred years, and the next generation or two will have to sort out their own problems - isn’t that what right-wingers believe? Yet to hide their true beliefs, they choose to deny both man-made climate change and global warming, in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence.

On the other hand, you could subscribe to the view that the world has enough resources to feed, clothe and house everyone if they were distributed more fairly, and that we should look after the planet for the sake of those who will follow us. That’s what those who are genuinely left-of-centre believe, but maybe not those who consider themselves to be ‘moderates’ and who think there is no alternative to a capitalist system which is both destroying the planet and itself in the process, because the more inequality it creates the more unsustainable it becomes.

[Ivan]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DBQ-6prXUAEAazB.jpg

[oftenwrong]

Today is International Mountain Day


http://www.un.org/en/events/mountainday/

(Dutch participation is voluntary)

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