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Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

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Not one Tory or Lib Dem MP turned up for the 'bedroom tax' debate

Post by skwalker1964 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:14 pm

First topic message reminder :

Original at: http://skwalker1964.wordpress.com/2013/01/24/unbelievable-not-1-tory-turns-up-for-bedroom-tax-debate/

The Tories’ complete contempt for ordinary people couldn’t have been more clearly demonstrated than it was in yesterday’s Westminster Hall debate on the onerous, ludicrously-unfair ‘bedroom tax’, which will impoverish millions of struggling people for daring to have a spare bedroom, by deducting benefits.

This includes many people whose children are at university and millions of estranged parents who will be punished for having a room for their visiting children to stay in.

Not one Tory turned up for the debate. Not a single one, apart from the minister who was obliged to attend. Even the pathetic LibDems couldn’t be bothered to make an appearance.




For more details, read Eoin Clark’s excellent blog here.
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by tlttf on Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:44 pm

I'm probably being a little naive on here, wasn't the bedroom subsidy removed to attempt to make people swap with each other, ie; people who had too many bedrooms would swap with those living in overcrowded conditions, according to the gossiping class (on here) there would seem to be nobody living with an overcrowded home. In which case something must be right with the country?

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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by astradt1 on Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:10 pm

I wonder where on the benefits form granting housing benefit did it say that a 'spare room' supplement was included?

The little bit about people being able to swap for bigger/smaller houses was just the excuse this government gave for cutting benefits, which if you refuse to say it's a tax, this exercise really is.......
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by Ivan on Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:19 am

Bedroom tax nightmare is worse than Afghanistan, says war veteran reduced to living on £5 a day
 
Former soldier Dennis Buchan lost almost half his benefits due to the introduction of the tax and faces eviction from his Arbroath home, despite risking his life in Afghanistan.
 
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/bedroom-tax-nightmare-worse-afghanistan-2125392
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by Penderyn on Sat Sep 14, 2013 1:02 pm

Deadly Nightshade wrote:
tlttf wrote:What a strange world some people live in witchy. Nobody denies that there are some that on occasion have to rely on the state for some support. What as that got to do with the conservatives,
Not 100% sure I am gauging your point accurately as the shockingly obvious answer would seem that in this incidence the State & Conservatives would be 1 in the same


anybody that believes the "wannabes" waiting in the wings will even attempt to change one of the policies put forward by the "coalition" (note not tory) lives in a totally red tinted world. Not one government since the 70's has tried to change things for the benefit of the working man/woman. What makes anybody believe things would change under the other socialists?
Blair, in his 13 years in power dismantled the class system almost entirely and gave better options and prospects to women in the workplace, not to mention leveling the playing field for those returning too work after having children. In opening up the Education system he provided not only a means to achieve a better standard of living and a better familial aesthetic by children witnessing their parents going either out to work to earn a living or returning to the Education system to better themselves. This benefit is almost 10 fold, parents who are in low rent housing and who were previously living off the state where offered more than the slander and condemnation of previous Governments~ a way out and a healthy example for the children as opposed to living of the state once they leave school.

I think the above would constitute an attempt to "change things for the benefit of the working man/woman"
Jesus - Blair as revolutionary transformer of society!   How on earth do you think the tories are waging outright class war on the British people if there are no classes?   Those scum stand for the same  thieves as have been looting here since the German mercenaries revolted in the Fifth Century .
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Sep 14, 2013 5:14 pm

Penderyn wrote: Jesus - Blair as revolutionary transformer of society!   How on earth do you think the tories are waging outright class war on the British people if there are no classes?   Those scum stand for the same  thieves as have been looting here since the German mercenaries revolted in the Fifth Century .
Class War is not the property of the Tory Party. Tim Lott, in an article in today's Independent says that the Working Class and Middle Class have between them created a category of "Middle Englanders".

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-left-my-workingclass-roots-behind-so-why-does-radio-4-still-annoy-me-8815130.html
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by Penderyn on Sat Sep 14, 2013 6:16 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
Penderyn wrote: Jesus - Blair as revolutionary transformer of society!   How on earth do you think the tories are waging outright class war on the British people if there are no classes?   Those scum stand for the same  thieves as have been looting here since the German mercenaries revolted in the Fifth Century .
Class War is not the property of the Tory Party.  Tim Lott, in an article in today's Independent says that the Working Class and Middle Class have between them created a category of "Middle Englanders".

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/ive-left-my-workingclass-roots-behind-so-why-does-radio-4-still-annoy-me-8815130.html
Who he? Where is England?
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by methought on Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:52 pm

Time to build more one-bedroom houses, methinks! All ready for the baby-boomers - the suffering caused by the bedroom tax might be just the incentive we need to benefit from. Demonising the disadvantaged is, we all know, an art which this government has practised to perfection. Shame is not in their make-up - and apart from a few granny martyrs, it seems the I'm alright jacks aren't getting out of bed to protest over-much.

(Maybe if I glance at the mirror I can see one quite nearby)
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by Ivan on Sat Sep 14, 2013 7:53 pm

Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax? No. The poll tax affected everyone and made most people worse off. The bedroom tax only affects 660,000 poor and disabled people on housing benefit.
 
Since Thatcher changed the ethos of our society ("greed is good", "no such thing as society, just individuals"), far too many people don't give a sod about those less fortunate than themselves.
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:03 pm

If anyone has the time, inclination and of course the money - a call for a Judicial Review of The Bedroom Tax might reveal that there is no law attaching the payment of Housing Benefit to a specified number of rooms, or their designated use.

The only consideration normally is whether it is a fair rent for the property.
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by Ivan on Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:21 am

Just one more example of the abject cruelty of the Tory bedroom tax:-
 
http://www.shieldsgazette.com/news/bedroom-tax-forcing-arthritic-gran-to-move-1-6084035
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by Bellatori on Sat Oct 26, 2013 9:20 pm

The poll tax was iniquitous and not a little spiteful. I found the following article from 'On this Day' by the BBC which is quite interesting for reasons I will comment on after.

Peaceful protests

The violence erupted just after 1600 BST following a peaceful march against the poll tax which saw up to 70,000 people take to the streets in protest at the new government levy. A group of protesters involved in a sit-in at Whitehall, close to the Downing Street entrance, refused to move after requests from police and stewards. As police arrested offenders, placards and cans were thrown from the crowd and the trouble spread to Charing Cross Road, Pall Mall, Regent Street and Covent Garden.
David Meynell, deputy assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, in charge of the operation, said a peaceful march had been "completely overshadowed by the actions of about 3,000 to 3,500 people in minority groups".
At 15 I photographed the Grosvenor Square protests about Vietnam. I had my camera smashed by police and it taught me a lot. When you do these things you need identification and support from a paper. I had neither BUT fortunately I did look young for my age. I was marched to the tube at Marble Arch and told to go home. My father was very annoyed about the loss of his camera but seeing I was a bit shaken by the whole thing took a surprisingly relaxed attitude about it. I got a summer job which was marginally paid with the local paper taking photos. When I became a teacher I ended up teaching photography night classes. I am also a statistician by qualification.
The reason I mentioned this is that I also took photos of the Poll Tax Riot in London. I made sure that I had a press card from the local advertiser and I took quite a few photos (probably still somewhere in my lock up!). My point is that I estimated the crowd size from a series of photos that I took as the protesters paraded past. My estimate was closer to 85k give or take 2k. Whilst  did not see what triggered the protests when the whole thing turned ugly later in the afternoon, I did see unprovoked attacks on protesters who simply could not get out of the way of charging policemen. In the light of that I always wondered how closely the reports of the start mirrored actually what happened.

The Advertiser did use two of my photos - not the ones where two policemen were dragging a protester off whilst clubbing him with their truncheons however.

I have often quoted the Salvor Hardin saying (Foundation - Isaac Asimov), 'Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent' and the other classic from Gandhi "Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary. "

which leaves me wondering whether Robert Heinlein is more likely correct...

“Anyone who clings to the historically untrue -- and -- thoroughly immoral doctrine that violence never solves anything I would advise to conjure up the ghosts of Napoleon Bonaparte and the Duke of Wellington and let them debate it. The ghost of Hitler would referee. Violence, naked force, has settled more issues in history than has any other factor; and the contrary opinion is wishful thinking at its worst. Breeds that forget this basic truth have always paid for it with their lives and their freedoms.”

Whatever else may be true it is my opinion that the violence that followed the poll tax protests was the cause of its demise.

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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by Dan Fante on Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:04 am

Interesting post, Bellatori. Thanks for that.
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by Ivan on Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:19 pm

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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by Bellatori on Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:05 pm

You would think we were a third world country when the UN feels it has to come to town.

'Shocking' bedroom tax should be axed, says UN investigator

But then, of course, she is biased according to... Grant Shapps Pens Complaint To UN Over Raquel Rolnik's 'Politically Biased' Bedroom Tax Comments

Am I allowed to use the term 'pillock' here? If not then obviously I withdraw the term otherwise I want to say the he is a complete and utter pillock. Actually I take all that back and will short circuit the whole by just saying he's a TORY

...and I note that the Daily Mail took a very supportive view in the article £300-a-night hotel for the Brazilian United Nations inspector who lectured Britain over 'bedroom tax' Sadly they were supportive of the wrong side. Anyone surprised?

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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by Dan Fante on Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:16 pm

Bellatori wrote:You would think we were a third world country when the UN feels it has to come to town.

'Shocking' bedroom tax should be axed, says UN investigator

But then, of course, she is biased according to... Grant Shapps Pens Complaint To UN Over Raquel Rolnik's 'Politically Biased' Bedroom Tax Comments

Am I allowed to use the term 'pillock' here? If not then obviously I withdraw the term otherwise I want to say the he is a complete and utter pillock. Actually I take all that back and will short circuit the whole by just saying he's a TORY

...and I note that the Daily Mail took a very supportive view in the article £300-a-night hotel for the Brazilian United Nations inspector who lectured Britain over 'bedroom tax' Sadly they were supportive of the wrong side. Anyone surprised?
I 'love' how they make a big deal about how you can buy a bottle of wine for two and a half grand there and infer this is part of what makes her a hypocrite, despite there being no suggestion that she purchased a bottle whilst staying there. I would like to see some of the bar tabs put in as expenses by some of the journalists at these newspapers when they're bribing bent coppers, I mean speaking to anonymous sources, in order to get their stories. What an absolute parcel that article is.
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by Ivan on Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:10 pm

Esther McVey flounders as bedroom tax failure becomes clear
 
From an article by George Eaton:-
 
After the publication of a BBC study showing that the bedroom tax has resulted in just 6% of affected tenants moving house, while pushing 28% into rent arrears, it was left to Esther McVey to defend the government. While failing to achieve the behavioural change they wanted (owing to the lack of smaller properties for tenants to move to), ministers boast that the measure is saving £1m a day (housing benefit is reduced by 14% for those deemed to have one "spare room" and by 25% for those with two or more).

But when McVey, the employment minister, was asked on Radio 5 Live how much money the government had saved, she replied: "But it was never all about saving money", a line of argument entirely at odds with that deployed by her department. McVey went on to explain that the policy was "about using the stock, the housing much better". But the problem is that the lack of one bedroom properties means there isn't enough housing to use "better".

While the policy is also costing money, by increasing homelessness and pushing some tenants into the private sector, where rents are higher (inflating the housing benefit bill), it seems likely that there is a net saving. But if, as McVey suggests, the policy isn't really about saving money, it's not clear what the point of it is at all. As long as the government fails to build the houses required, most tenants will simply be left to endure yet another welfare cut.

 
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/03/esther-mcvey-flounders-bedroom-tax-failure-becomes-clear
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat Mar 29, 2014 3:19 pm

" After the publication of a BBC study showing that the bedroom tax has resulted in just 6% of affected tenants moving house..."

Good to note that the BBC is still sufficiently independent to publicise such an unhelpful and unwelcome story for the Tories...    Very Happy
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:34 pm

As long as the topic continues to be discussed, there is hope of yet another U-turn before the Election.
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

Post by Ivan on Wed Feb 11, 2015 4:43 pm

Bedroom tax leaves 1,500 larger homes empty and councils with a £20 million rent deficit

From an article by Nigel Nelson:-

Councils are losing £20 million in rent a year as the bedroom tax leaves homes empty. Nearly 1,500 multiple-bedroom properties are vacant because tenants cannot afford to move into them. Under the bedroom tax their housing benefit has been slashed. The tax has also pushed up rent arrears by £24 million because tenants cannot afford the levy. Many are unable to downsize because there is a shortage of one-bedroom homes.

The waste of good homes comes despite 1.7 million people being stuck on council house waiting lists in England. New government figures show the number of empty properties increased from 25,462 in 2012-13 to 26,958 in 2013-14, when the tax was introduced. As a result, lost rental income went up from £107 million to £127 million.

Shadow housing minister Emma Reynolds said: “The bedroom tax is cruel, unfair and ineffective, which is why a Labour government will scrap it.” A Department for Work and Pensions spokesman said: “There’s no evidence of a link between empty council homes and removing the spare room subsidy.”


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/bedroom-tax-leaves-1500-larger-5124510#
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Re: Will the bedroom tax be the new poll tax?

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