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Governing body or executioner?

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Governing body or executioner?

Post by Redflag on Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:57 pm

First topic message reminder :

May 2010 saw David Cameron come to power in the UK and taking pride of position as PM ~ however over the past 3 years it may have been prudent to market him as the GRIM REAPER in training. With all the cuts being made from DWP, NHS and not to forget the addition of the bedroom tax, Cameron and his cohorts are chalking up quite a death toll, which raises the question of "Is he running the country or trying to get his Reaper qualification?" Then not forgetting his cohorts that make up his cabinet ministers, that would be perfectly suited to the 9 rings of Hell in Alighieri's Divine Comedy, rather than be placed strategically throughout positions of power in the UK.  
 
The centre point for this thread is about the casualties that have been caused by Cameron & Co. As mentioned above, the areas that have been subjected to brutality are those involving the most vulnerable in society, the punching bags of the Tory party ~ if you will...  As alarming as that claim is, what should be considered as more alarming is that there have been ACTUAL deaths at the hands of Cameron and the rest due to the "CUTS".  So at what stage does running a country mean you get to don a black cloak and scythe amd start down a road that kills people? The argument is used against gun companies or Tobacco giants they may not be the one to pull the trigger so to speak, but their responsiblity does not end there either.  
 
Welfare rerform death toll  Link for a list of 34 names that have died as a result of welfare reform.  The bedroom tax has now racked up a list of its own casualties too. Again Cameron dons his cloak and scythe and the the death toll rises at the hands of the Tory party. Fuel poverty will be the next on Death's list, with prices set to soar again over the coming Winter months, yet when pushed to step in, Cameron can only step in and assist the energy companies by cutting obligations even futher to OAP's and benefit claimants. Death in this case does not actually ride a white horse, more like a white spark from the energy companies... ALL THE WAY TO THE TORY PARTY COFFERS!
 
The grave's the market place where all must meet
Both rich and poor, as well as small and great;
If life were merchandise, that gold could buy,
The rich would live -- only the poor would die.  
(last paragraph from Death and the Lady  Lesley Nelson Burns)

Seeing this in black and white makes the intention of the tory party undeniable.  
 
Finally the NHS cuts have also racked up enough casualties too, 20 billion taken from the budget 5,000 nurses now unemployed and being admitted into any NHS hospital has become like something you would find on a novelty game show, all the pain of injury, however just minus the audience laughing at your discomfort.
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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by Dan Fante on Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:44 am

Nicely avoided. Laughing You'd make a great politician going off your posts. I'm yet to see one that isn't a soundbite.

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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:47 am

Do we have an Aries amongst us?

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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by Dan Fante on Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:53 am

oftenwrong wrote:
Incidentally, Denmark, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Germany are similar in not being "nuclear powers".  Perhaps that is the secret of their success, rather than the underlying political process.
This is good stuff Laughing To borrow from Carl Sagan, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning behind this.
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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:29 pm

The word "perhaps" leaves a Reader free to impose their own view on what I've written, Dan.
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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by Ivan on Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:37 pm

Dan Fante wrote:-
Do you think the UK is politically similar to Israel?....Why not use Germany as an example?

You have to go back to 1992 for an election where the Tories got more than 40% of the popular vote. How does that equate to PR guaranteeing them power on permanent basis?
 
I always favoured PR. What could be fairer than a party which gets 40% of the votes also getting 40% of the seats in the legislature? I also thought the bottom line was that there could never be another nasty, vicious Tory government under PR.
 
The events of May 2010 changed my mind. I still can’t comprehend what Clegg, Laws and Huhne did. They failed to learn from history on how the Tories stitched up the old Liberal Party after the First World War. They rolled over and dropped their long-standing ‘red line’ of PR as a condition for entering any coalition. After just four days they agreed to be part of a government in which all the major offices of state – PM, chancellor, home secretary, foreign secretary, health secretary, education secretary, defence secretary – were filled by Tories. They threw most of their manifesto in the dustbin, broke not just their promises, but their pledges, to students and allowed the NHS to be asset-stripped. For what? The implementation of their policy of raising the starting tax threshold to £10k over five years, something which was largely negated by an increase in VAT to 20%.
 
Israel is indeed an extreme example of the drawbacks of PR, where small religious parties have so much clout. It appears that Germany is going to have a ‘grand coalition’ again, with the SDP in coalition with Merkel. That can’t be good for democracy; where’s the opposition?
 
I think what Redflag is saying is that coalitions – an inevitable result of PR – can produce extreme right-wing aberrations like Cameron’s evil, corrupt and incompetent government, even though the Tories won only 36.1% of the vote.  On the other hand, it was first-past-the-post which was responsible for Thatcher’s decade of destruction. Can’t really win, can we?
Crying or Very sad
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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:54 pm

"One Man, One Vote, once every five years" doesn't seem to cut it, and the debate between first-past-the-post and the various guises of PR has similar (though different in kind) deficiencies.

What do we have to do to achieve honest, responsive and representative Government? Any ideas? Anyone?
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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by Mel on Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:20 pm

"What do we have to do to achieve honest, responsive and representative Government? Any ideas? Anyone?."

Get clever people into power who understand the needs of the majority have been there and pay them more than they could receive from the largest paying private company.
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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by Bellatori on Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:05 pm

Mel wrote:"What do we have to do to achieve honest, responsive and representative Government? Any ideas? Anyone?."

Get clever people into power who understand the needs of the majority have been there and pay them more than they could receive from the largest paying  private company.
It has always seemed to me that the desire to be an MP should be an automatic disqualification from the job. I have always felt that MPs have a tendency for self-aggrandisement that always trumps any desire to actually do anything useful.

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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by Phil Hornby on Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:35 pm

It has long been an irritation to me that local councillors strut about and insist on being called Councillor Smith (eg)wherever they go and bristle if they are called Mr or Mrs etc. That is why I have studiously avoided the  'Councillor' title at all times when I have had the misfortune to deal with them professionally. Not all of them have exactly thanked me for it, but that just made the habit more appealing.
 
MPs are the same, but just a little higher up the ego chain. I wouldn't give you a fiver for the lot of them. I have had less direct contact with MPs during my working life, but the same contempt applies.
 
And if, by chance, any of the aforementioned happen to see this and recall any contacts with me, I can safely say that any offence caused is of no concern to me whatsoever...    Smile
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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:20 pm

Amen to that! May God preserve us from jacks-in-office.
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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by Dan Fante on Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:26 am

oftenwrong wrote:The word "perhaps" leaves a Reader free to impose their own view on what I've written, Dan.
It also infers you were suggesting it could be the case but I concede it does contain a caveat that allows you to avoid the issue when questioned upon it. Do you think you're the first person I've encountered on the internet who uses these tactics? Laughing
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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by Dan Fante on Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:28 am

oftenwrong wrote:"One Man, One Vote, once every five years" doesn't seem to cut it, and the debate between first-past-the-post and the various guises of PR has similar (though different in kind) deficiencies.

What do we have to do to achieve honest, responsive and representative Government?  Any ideas?  Anyone?
What's your view?
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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by Dan Fante on Thu Oct 31, 2013 8:30 am

Phil Hornby wrote:It has long been an irritation to me that local councillors strut about and insist on being called Councillor Smith (eg)wherever they go and bristle if they are called Mr or Mrs etc. That is why I have studiously avoided the  'Councillor' title at all times when I have had the misfortune to deal with them professionally. Not all of them have exactly thanked me for it, but that just made the habit more appealing.
 
MPs are the same, but just a little higher up the ego chain. I wouldn't give you a fiver for the lot of them. I have had less direct contact with MPs during my working life, but the same contempt applies.
 
And if, by chance, any of the aforementioned happen to see this and recall any contacts with me, I can safely say that any offence caused is of no concern to me whatsoever...    Smile
I've worked in local government. They tend to be jumped-up little so-and-so's regardless of their political persuasion.
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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:34 am

Dan Fante wrote:
oftenwrong wrote:"One Man, One Vote, once every five years" doesn't seem to cut it, and the debate between first-past-the-post and the various guises of PR has similar (though different in kind) deficiencies.

What do we have to do to achieve honest, responsive and representative Government?  Any ideas?  Anyone?
What's your view?
I haven't been cautioned yet. Rolling Eyes 
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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by Dan Fante on Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:37 am

Curious that you would ask a question but choose not to answer it yourself. Or, to put it another way: "Nuffink to do wiv me, Guv!"
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Re: Governing body or executioner?

Post by Redflag on Thu Oct 31, 2013 10:04 pm

"Nuffink to do wiv me, Guv!"  
 
that is always the best reply Dan Fante, non committal.
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Re: Governing body or executioner?

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