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If you had the opportunity to create a religion

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If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by Heretic on Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:54 pm

If you had the opportunity to create a religion what characteristics would it have.

Richard Dawkins has shown how memes, and religion is just a form of meme, slowly change from one form to another following the model that organisms use to evolve in the natural world. Every now and then organisms make a radical change in a short period of time and on the meme front that might be similar to Judaism transforming in part into Christianity which eventually exceeds its root (Judaism) and had a good shot at world domination.

Would you target your religion at the rich? the intellectuals? the scientists? the governments? the masses?

Would it talk about life after death? What promises would you make and why? what would you use as scripture?

As you can see there are all sorts of interesting possibilities. As we think about creating new religions what do we learn about the historic ones?

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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:00 pm

Heretic wrote:If you had the opportunity to create a religion what characteristics would it have.
I'd run it on a points system, like green shield stamps.

Sorry showing my age, I mean like Tesco clubcard points. You do a good deed get some points, with a tiered system of points depending on the type of deed. Of course points would be deducted for bad deeds, you can cash them in against goods and services, or save em up like a pension. I'd insist on universal human rights and equality for every single person.
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by polyglide on Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:55 am

We learn that a lot of religions are based on nothing more than some ones idea of how to control others and usually with the end result being to get their hands on that which they are not entitled to.

Whilst Christianity is for the good of all and offers a life full of hope and if followed a good life on earth.
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by Tosh on Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:52 pm

Whilst Christianity is for the good of all and offers a life full of hope and if followed a good life on earth.
In short, believe in Jesus or get shafted here and the hereafter.
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by Shirina on Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:00 pm

polyglide wrote:Whilst Christianity is for the good of all and offers a life full of hope and if followed a good life on earth.
My religion wouldn't base itself upon the worship and adulation of a supreme being that can "do whatever it wants" while demanding love and obedience like a petulant child.

I've been giving this question some thought lately, and I haven't arrived at any conclusions as of yet ... but I do know for certain that deity worship is definitely out. My religion would be strictly voluntary, and there would be no threats of damnation and hellfire if you don't join my little cabal. My religion would also be for those more interested in bettering the human condition than simply getting rich, and if there was a way to eliminate money altogether, I would do so. Nor would there be a big list of draconic laws ... anyone can follow the "Golden Rule" without being told that homosexuality is an abomination or sex before marriage is a sin.

I also find this to be rather ironic:

polyglide wrote:We learn that a lot of religions are based on nothing more than some ones idea of how to control others
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. Obey them not only to win their favor when their eye is on you, but as slaves of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart" - Ephesians 6:5-6

Not only do we have slavery still in existence in the New Testament (hear that, polyglide?) but it sets up the masses to listen to their masters ... and for a long time, that meant the clergy as well as an owner, a king, or a landlord.
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by Heretic on Fri Nov 01, 2013 10:19 pm

Sharina. Something like this might interest you Sunday Assemblies.

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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by stuart torr on Fri Aug 15, 2014 6:48 pm

How can you have a religion for atheists?
There would certainly be no god for starters would there?
No praying, no churches, no Priests, no hymns ETC.
Not a lot left for us atheists is there?
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by boatlady on Sat Aug 16, 2014 4:59 pm

Some Quakers (not many it's true) profess not to believe in any god.

This doesn't preclude believing in the human spirit and the possibility that our everyday habits of thought may leave insufficient opportunity for reflection and listening to the promptings of our inner nature.

Participating in what is sometimes called 'gathered worship' provides an opportunity to reflect quietly on the assumptions and 'common sense' ideas that we usually rely on - which can, without quiet reflection, lead to ethically dubious decision and actions.

Buddhists, similarly, do not worship a deity, but practice meditation and ethical practices in order to achieve a positive mental state and to live the 'good' life.

I don't know much about the Humanists, but I'm assuming that as there is a Humanist Society there are Humanist gatherings of some sort.

Being an atheist doesn't have to mean that you see yourself just as breathing meat - I believe most thinking people seek wisdom and guidance about matters of virtue and ethics - some of them find it psychologically helpful to think they are asking a divine being for advice - some prefer to think they are thinking things out for themselves. I think we all need to be with other people in order to become the best we can.
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Aug 16, 2014 5:31 pm

If you had the opportunity to create a religion - could you ever exclude politics?
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by stuart torr on Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:39 pm

Not believing oftenwrong, how much politics is actually in religion?
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Aug 16, 2014 10:39 pm

If you first define "Religion", Stuart, and then go on to define "Politics", it's not always straightforward to distinguish between the two.

Each usually contain what might be termed "Control Games". As you will know, Life is a series of choices.
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by stuart torr on Sat Aug 16, 2014 11:04 pm

Very true oftenwrong, choices everywhere, who, why, what where, when.
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by Shirina on Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:41 am

oftenwrong wrote:If you had the opportunity to create a religion - could you ever  exclude politics?

Sure you could. The only reason why politics ever plays a role in religious belief is when your religion tells its adherents that it is the "one true religion" and that "god will be angry and punish all of society if there is too much sin," and "we must convert people, and if we can't, we'll force them to our will with violence or legality."

Most, if not all, religions in the past came into existence because of one thing, and one thing only:  Humanity's fear of the unknown. Not just the fear of death, but also a fear of the natural forces of our planet that could not be predicted - and often still can't. Eclipses, comets, shooting stars, auroras ... earthquakes, volcanos, tsunamis, droughts, floods, thunder and lightning, the behavior of animals, stillborn babies and infertility, disease and sickness, unexpected deaths and even the darkness itself -- they all needed to be explained so that humanity could come to grips with the fickle whimsy of the natural world.

How do we usually design children's toys? We put faces on them, don't we. The toys are anthropomorphized for the child so that the toys seem friendly, inviting, and familiar. Well, that's what religion is. With our child-like knowledge of nature in our days of ignorance, we anthropomorphized nature and called it "God." Whenever something bad happened, God was angry. When God was angry, then THAT had to be explained. Why is God angry? And that's when the rules came, the strict behavior, the oppression, the scapegoating. Once we became arrogant enough to think we had insight into the mind of God, religions became a force for evil, a wolf in sheep's clothing, disguising itself as a force for good.

To design one's own religion without involving it with politics, it just takes the realization that God is not monitoring your sex life and then destroying cities if you turn out to be gay or because you had sex before marriage. When one accepts that not everyone has to worship your god, that your god is not some kind of cosmic bouncer guarding access to the afterlife, that you are not obligated to convert the masses and conquer the world, politics doesn't matter. It just doesn't - so long as your political environment grants you the freedom to follow your religion even if it is only a religion of one.
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:08 pm

QUOTE: ".... When one accepts that not everyone has to worship your god, that your god is not some kind of cosmic bouncer guarding access to the afterlife, that you are not obligated to convert the masses and conquer the world, politics doesn't matter...."

Put like that, Shirina, it seems blindingly obvious, but the simple fact is that few people are prepared to adopt the tenets of any religion but their own. Religious tolerance is practised by many many thoughtful people, but they still think that "their" religion is the obvious (and only) choice. It's like Nationality - look at those funny people who think that having been born British is to have won First Prize in the race of life. Is that Religion, Politics, or something altogether different? Probably just the human condition.


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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by stuart torr on Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:47 pm

oftenwrong.
When one is young and taught one religion, it is very rare that they will change to another, except maybe become atheists.
This is especially true with muslims, and roman catholics do you not think?
When talking about being British, at this moment in time the way the country is going, I'm not sure whether I'm proud or not?
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by boatlady on Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:09 pm

The only thing that sticks in my mind about my early religious education is 'Jesus wants me for a sunbeam' - works for me - I've tried to live by it ever since
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by stuart torr on Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:34 pm

Well boatlady, jesus certainly doesn't want me for a sunbeam  Laughing 
maybe for a lightning strike or thunder.  Wink 
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by boatlady on Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:45 am

No - sunbeam is more fun!!
 sunny flower 
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by stuart torr on Wed Aug 20, 2014 12:08 pm

I'm afraid jesus doesn't need me for anything really boatlady, being an atheist. Laughing but keep smiling.
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:05 pm

If anyone is seriously in doubt that Politics and Religion go hand-in-hand, they might be kind enough to offer a comment on the division between Southern and Northern Ireland, and the transition of British Monarchy from Stuart to Hanover. (Incidentally incorporating the Act of Union between Scotland and England)
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by boatlady on Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:01 am

Politics and organised religion, I have always believed, are all about power and taking control of wealth - what more natural than that the representatives of organised religion should join forces with the representatives of political power - a plague on both their houses say I
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by stuart torr on Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:49 am

A wise post boatlady, and what a plague it is.
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by boatlady on Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:53 pm

So let's all be a sunbeam - if not for Jesus, just for the hell of it!!
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by stuart torr on Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:46 pm

Ok boatlady, just for you and the sheer hell of it. Laughing sunny flower 
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by boatlady on Thu Aug 21, 2014 4:54 pm

lol! sunny 
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by stuart torr on Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:20 pm

cheers sunny 
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by Greatest I am on Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:37 pm

Heretic wrote:If you had the opportunity to create a religion what characteristics would it have.

Richard Dawkins has shown how memes, and religion is just a form of meme, slowly change from one form to another following the model that organisms use to evolve in the natural world. Every now and then organisms make a radical change in a short period of time and on the meme front that might be similar to Judaism transforming in part into Christianity which eventually exceeds its root (Judaism) and had a good shot at world domination.

Would you target your religion at the rich? the intellectuals? the scientists? the governments? the masses?

Would it talk about life after death? What promises would you make and why? what would you use as scripture?

As you can see there are all sorts of interesting possibilities. As we think about creating new religions what do we learn about the historic ones?

Heretic

I would not so much create a new one but would do as I try to do and revive Gnostic Christianity.

Christians decimated us and burned most of our scriptures to try to stifle free thought.

We are a thinking man's and woman's religion and just that puts it a cut above all the mainstream religions.

http://www.thesongofgod.com/tgc/basic_beliefs.html

Enough preaching.

---------------------------------

This link is quite well done and will generate some thought I hope. It is not Gnostic but could be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ1PDxeUynA

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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by Greatest I am on Sat Sep 13, 2014 6:41 pm

boatlady wrote:Politics and organised religion, I have always believed, are all about power and taking control of wealth - what more natural than that the representatives of organised religion should join forces with the representatives of political power - a plague on both their houses say I

They have already. Have you not heard of the Noble Lie?

It has yet to be repealed.

It will not be until we admit to ourselves that we all live in Oligarchies and not democracies or any other political type.

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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by stuart torr on Sat Sep 13, 2014 7:26 pm

Greatest you already belong to a religion of whatever it is that you call it, so why come on here and post your posts, on a thread that is for if you had the "opportunity to create a religion"?
Please do not waste our time. silent thumbsdown
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:16 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
boatlady wrote:Politics and organised religion, I have always believed, are all about power and taking control of wealth - what more natural than that the representatives of organised religion should join forces with the representatives of political power - a plague on both their houses say I

They have already. Have you not heard of the Noble Lie?

It has yet to be repealed.

It will not be until we admit to ourselves that we all live in Oligarchies and not democracies or any other political type.

Regards
DL

You still touting this nonsense? You seem to think democracy is an absolute term, rather than an ideal that is worked on and towards.
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by stuart torr on Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:15 pm

Exactly Sheldon, he's going on and on and on.
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:29 pm

stuart torr wrote:Greatest you already belong to a religion of whatever it is that you call it, so why come on here and post your posts,  on a thread that is for if you had the "opportunity to create a religion"?
Please do not waste our time. silent thumbsdown  

Even though I have named myself a Gnostic Christian, that does not mean that my theology is written in stone. That is t foolish Christian way.

In fact, it is a Jewish and Gnostic tradition to play with the wording of scriptures to try to understand them in different ways as one seeks God. It does not work well if one is a literalist fool who reads literally and who by definition is an idol worshiper.

Regards
DL

P.S. As to your attitude of late. Bite me.
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:37 pm

Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
boatlady wrote:Politics and organised religion, I have always believed, are all about power and taking control of wealth - what more natural than that the representatives of organised religion should join forces with the representatives of political power - a plague on both their houses say I

They have already. Have you not heard of the Noble Lie?

It has yet to be repealed.

It will not be until we admit to ourselves that we all live in Oligarchies and not democracies or any other political type.

Regards
DL

You still touting this nonsense? You seem to think democracy is an absolute term, rather than an ideal that is worked on and towards.

No. It, like all philosophies and theologies should remain flexible. At present the oligarchs that rule us are not interested in letting people vote as they would. In a way they may have a point because in the systems and countries who think they are doing free voting, they will not like that net tax takers have a say in how net tax payers spend on them. It is like the kid with his hand in the cookie jar telling his reprimanding mother how many cookies he is due. I find that strange. We do not put that law in because the oligarchs want the poor to think they are as free as the rest of us, --- but it is all illusion.

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DL

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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:40 pm

stuart torr wrote:Exactly Sheldon, he's going on and on and on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyxBYbfu6k8

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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by stuart torr on Mon Sep 15, 2014 3:50 pm

GIa.
My attitude?
All you do is troll around every forum site, open as many posts as you can, start the same old conversation over and over again.
So what are posters of normal ilk supposed to do about you?
Unfortunately on this forum thread which is not meant for your preaching of a religion if that is what you can call it?
This thread is for "if you had the opportunity to create a religion".
So please find a thread that is suitable, back on the other forum which I left to get out of the way of posters like you.
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by Greatest I am on Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:08 pm

stuart torr wrote:GIa.
My attitude?
All you do is troll around every forum site, open as many posts as you can, start the same old conversation over and over again.
So what are posters of normal ilk supposed to do about you?
Unfortunately on this forum thread which is not meant for your preaching of a religion if that is what you can call it?
This thread is for "if you had the opportunity to create a religion".
So please find a thread that is suitable, back on the other forum which I left to get out of the way of posters like you.

Smart move. The slow should let the quick through.

"So what are posters of normal ilk supposed to do about you?"

Listen carefully and learn. Not try to speak as you do.

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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by stuart torr on Sat Sep 20, 2014 4:39 pm

Why are you going to preach even more about your religion?
Instead you are supposed to create a new one.
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Re: If you had the opportunity to create a religion

Post by Greatest I am on Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:52 am

stuart torr wrote:Why are you going to preach even more about your religion?
Instead you are supposed to create a new one.

The only way to create a new religion is to somehow catch the public's ear. A second requirement in these times is not caring about his lying to the public, --- as we all know that anything said about God is pure speculation.

Even what I say of the Godhead I found is bias. It cannot help but be since I believe it all to be real.

Regards
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