Welcome to Cutting Edge. Guests can see and read the contents of most of the boards on this forum but need to become members to read all of them. Currently membership is instant, but new accounts may be deleted if not activated within fourteen days.

If you decide to join the forum, please open your welcome message for further details. New members are requested to introduce themselves on the appropriate thread on our welcome board.

Members may post messages and start threads, but it is essential that they read our posting rules and advice before doing so. If you have any immediate questions or queries, please post them on the suggestions board.

After posting at least ten messages, members are able to contact each other and the staff through our personal messaging system.

This forum is administrated by Ivan and moonbeam and moderated by boatlady and astradt1.

Thank you for visiting Cutting Edge.

Apostrophes – do they matter?

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Ivan on Sun Jan 19, 2014 3:23 pm

First topic message reminder :

I remember taking exams at school and invariably at the top of every question paper it would say: “Credit will be given for good English and the orderly presentation of material. Candidates who neglect these essentials will be penalised.” I used to think that was a strange thing to put on papers for subjects other than English.

The owners of this site have requested that we avoid SMS language and spelling mistakes (although they haven’t provided a spell check facility), and we have provided some tips, including use of the apostrophe, here:-
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t391-posting-tips

The matter of apostrophes came into my mind when I read that Cambridge City Council has banned punctuation from new street names. Officers said they were following national guidance which warned apostrophes could lead to mistakes, particularly for emergency services. It’s not the first time this has happened, they were banned in Birmingham back in 2009.

This has infuriated the Good Grammar Company, whose spokesperson said: “Dropping apostrophes is pandering to the lowest denominator and while eradicating them anywhere is dreadful, it is particularly bad to do it in Cambridge, a city renowned for learning.”

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/News/Apostrophe-catastrophe-as-Cambridge-City-Council-bans-punctuation-from-new-street-names-20140117060000.htm

You live and learn, and I’ve now discovered that there exists the Apostrophe Protection Society. It was founded in 2001 by John Richards, a retired sub-editor, in response to his observations of widespread incorrect use of the apostrophe. The society reminds us of the basic rules:-
- Plurals don’t have apostrophes.
- Apostrophes signify possession, unless you are using the word ‘it’.
- Apostrophes are used for contractions.



http://www.redmolotov.com/blog/an-important-lesson-from-the-apostrophe-protection-society/

Even if we consider that good English matters in examinations, does it matter the rest of the time? After all, isn’t the primary purpose of language that it should be a means of communication, so that we can understand each other? As long as we know what someone is trying to say when they write something, does it matter if, for example, apostrophes are put in the wrong places or aren’t used at all? Do you take less notice of what another poster has to say if it is not well expressed? Or is all this just for geeks and grammar fascists?  Rolling Eyes 
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 7044
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down


Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Foxcliffe on Sat Jun 13, 2015 1:50 pm

oftenwrong wrote:and possibly ... Modern English Grammar
would that I had been allowed to make good the error of my ways Wink

Foxcliffe

Posts : 39
Join date : 2015-06-10

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Ivan on Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:03 pm

I've owned a Thesaurus for more years than I care to remember, but I've never really worked out how to use it! Is it anything like a dictionary, when you need to have some idea of how to spell a word before you can look up how to spell it (and what it means, of course!)?  Shocked

In many situations, what you write is likely to be taken more seriously if it is fluent and well expressed. In others – such as an internet discussion forum like this – good grammar and spelling aren’t crucial (as long as your message can be understood), but taking some care over what you post shows a degree of respect for your readers.

Errors obviously fall into two main categories:-

Typos – most of which could be eliminated if the poster would only take the trouble to read the message before sending it. A message was posted on another thread this morning where ‘bit’ was typed, presumably instead of ‘not’ (since ‘b’ is next to ‘n’ on the keyboard, and ‘i’ is next to ‘o’. Messages can be edited for up to 60 minutes after posting. We had to introduce that restriction after two members threw their toys out of the pram and started editing away all of their messages, making a nonsense of many of the threads. (Incidentally, if there are no new posts on the thread after the message you wish to edit, there is no need to fill in the ‘reason for editing’ box.)

Ignorance – not knowing that you’re making a mistake, not being aware that the word ‘their’ (meaning belonging to them) exists, or that the plural of Tory is Tories (not Tory’s). ‘Your’ and ‘you’re’ are often misused, and then there is ‘must of’ being written instead of ‘must have’, which is a reflection of the way some people speak. I’d like to point out these mistakes to the members who make them, but isn’t it too personal and likely to make them feel angry or humiliated, or both?

Now, I'd better read this through before I send it...... afraid
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 7044
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Foxcliffe on Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:47 pm

Sorry Ivan, I was toying with oftenwrong after having a grammatical error I had made pointed out but at the same time carrying on with a previous discussion we had about 'Flood control', wherein I had moaned about being unable to edit said glaring mistake - in advance of discovering your comment about changing the forum settings to prevent retrospective editing.  Timing is not my forte Rolling Eyes

Ivan wrote:isn’t it too personal and likely to make them feel angry or humiliated, or both?

Unfortunately I fear you are correct in the majority of cases.  Personally I don't mind and have already stated so but most would take it as a criticism and none of us, understandably, like to be criticised.
avatar
Foxcliffe

Posts : 39
Join date : 2015-06-10
Location : UK

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:58 pm

" none of us, understandably, like to be criticised"

On the subject of errors, isn't it ' none of us.... likes to be criticised', given that 'none' is a contraction of no-one' - ie not one person ?
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by boatlady on Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:26 pm

Ooh you old pedant Very Happy
avatar
boatlady
Administrator (Global Moderator)

Posts : 3712
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:34 pm

Probberly - it's just wot I does...    Shocked
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by boatlady on Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:05 pm

lol!
avatar
boatlady
Administrator (Global Moderator)

Posts : 3712
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Foxcliffe on Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:10 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:.... likes to be criticised'
Too late came the cry!!!  Sorry, all editing rights have been revoked.  You'll just have to make the best of it sarcasm

EDIT but, actually, I stand by my original in that not one of us like that at all tongue
avatar
Foxcliffe

Posts : 39
Join date : 2015-06-10
Location : UK

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:16 pm

I already had...!  Smile
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Foxcliffe on Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:22 pm

Well there's a blessing Razz
avatar
Foxcliffe

Posts : 39
Join date : 2015-06-10
Location : UK

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:38 pm

 Blessings are just a tool of the trade...  Smile
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Foxcliffe on Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:43 pm

And your trade would be pointing? Now there's a blessing, I could really do with my chimney being done right now. You just would not believe the state it is in afraid
avatar
Foxcliffe

Posts : 39
Join date : 2015-06-10
Location : UK

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:47 pm

None of us might like to be accused of pedantry, but consider if you will that sometimes none logically requires a plural:

None of the women here meet after work.

It takes at least two to meet, surely?

In my opening sentence the inclusion of "might" renders "likes" ungrammatical.

Does it not? (as one of our regulars is wont to add).
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11750
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:55 pm

I would suggest  - if 'none' is accepted as meaning 'not one'  -that , in the example used, it implies that not one of the women meets another ( or others) after work.

Interesting though...


Last edited by Phil Hornby on Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:57 pm

" ...You just would not believe the state it is in "


I just might...   Smile
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by bobby on Sun Jun 14, 2015 12:26 am

You live and learn, and I’ve now discovered that there exists the Apostrophe Protection Society. It was founded in 2001 by John Richards, a retired sub-editor, in response to his observations of widespread incorrect use of the apostrophe. The society reminds us of the basic rules:-
- Plurals don’t have apostrophes.
- Apostrophes signify possession, unless you are using the word ‘it’.
- Apostrophes are used for contractions.

After having seven kids, my wife remembers having many apostrophes.
avatar
bobby

Posts : 1939
Join date : 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by boatlady on Sun Jun 14, 2015 11:17 am

I bet she does!! Very Happy
avatar
boatlady
Administrator (Global Moderator)

Posts : 3712
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:15 pm

Sanity returns. Razz
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11750
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Ivan on Sun Oct 18, 2015 10:57 pm



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CL84EpLXAAALUeY.jpg
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 7044
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Oct 19, 2015 11:57 am

If only more people who post on-line could get that close to accuracy... Rolling Eyes
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:47 pm

But before it gets technical -

Rule 11

The plurals for capital letters and numbers used as nouns are not formed with
apostrophes.

Examples:
She consulted with three M.D.s.
BUT
She went to three M.D.s' offices.
The apostrophe is needed here to show plural possessive.
She learned her ABCs.
the 1990s not the 1990's
the '90s or the mid-'70s not the '90's or the mid-'70's
She learned her times tables for 6s and 7s.

Exception:
Use apostrophes with capital letters and numbers when the meaning would be
unclear otherwise.

Examples:
Please dot your i's.
You don't mean is.
Ted couldn't distinguish between his 6's and 0's.
You need to use the apostrophe to indicate the plural of zero or it will look
like the word Os. To be consistent within a sentence, you would also use the
apostrophe to indicate the plural of 6's.

avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11750
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:38 pm

Not forgetting :

The man who invented predictive text has died.

I bet you didn't even know he was i'll... Shocked
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Ivan on Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:55 pm

Can We Stop the Apostrophe Madness?

by Terri Herman-Ponce:-

https://terriponce.com/2016/10/23/can-we-stop-the-apostrophe-madness/
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 7044
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by boatlady on Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:45 am

Nicely explained - it's not rocket science, and you'd think people would learn this stuff in school
avatar
boatlady
Administrator (Global Moderator)

Posts : 3712
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:22 am

Remembered from childhood (and cannot now be unlearned):

U U U U U U U U U U U s
your I I I I I I I I I I I s
if U  B  
Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y Y s

Sorry! Embarassed
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11750
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by boatlady on Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:12 pm

lol! sunny
avatar
boatlady
Administrator (Global Moderator)

Posts : 3712
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Ivan on Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:32 am

you'd think people would learn this stuff in school
These beacons of wisdom clearly didn't...... No


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyvHYH9WEAAR2gj.jpg
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 7044
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by boatlady on Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:40 am

I begin to think education in this country has failed over the last 40 years or so - no-one seems to have any respect for the language any more; no-one seems to understand anything about history or the natural world or geography
avatar
boatlady
Administrator (Global Moderator)

Posts : 3712
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Phil Hornby on Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:32 pm

If that lot aren't ashamed to be holding that banner, they are even more thick, stupid and bone-headed than I thought... Shocked
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by boatlady on Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:00 pm

They look rather proud, if anything - a definite air of gravitas
avatar
boatlady
Administrator (Global Moderator)

Posts : 3712
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:52 am

The most appallingly bloody B-Movie ever must be "You're next" which you may enjoy if thrilled by the plunging of a dagger into a man's eye. (etcetera).

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/youre_next_2011/

But the wording scrawled in blood is always correctly punctuated.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11750
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Phil Hornby on Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:17 pm

There appear to be folk willing to admonish anyone who points out their errors of punctuation etc. as 'grammar Nazis' ( or in one recent case I noted, 'grammer Nazis' !).

How odd that such people are willing to make a public show not only of how dim they are, but also their unashamed tolerance of being wrong...
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:11 pm

....and finally, in 2016
A Happy New Year to Grammar Pedants everywhere:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the-top-10-adjectives-that-come-after-the-noun-a7497521.html
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11750
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:33 pm

HNY, ow.

It's good to see that some folk are still interested in grammar like wot it should be wrote...
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:12 pm

A surprising number of folk, it seems



¡Próspero Año Nuevo á todos!
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11750
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by boatlady on Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:46 pm

That was an unpresidented message (don't even know how he managed it - spellcheck insisted on changing to the correct spelling and I had to be very firm)
avatar
boatlady
Administrator (Global Moderator)

Posts : 3712
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:31 pm

All bases covered now, Boss!

avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11750
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Phil Hornby on Sun Jan 01, 2017 9:42 pm

Left hand; right hand.

But surely not in Bournemouth...?!
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:34 pm

Q: What do you say when you are comforting a grammar nazi?
A: There, Their, They're.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11750
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:46 pm

"Let's eat grandma!"  ....sorry, make that : "Let's eat, grandma..."

(lileks.com)

Sorry, I thought you said a 'grandma nazi....'     Embarassed
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Apostrophes – do they matter?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum