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How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

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How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by Greatest I am on Sat Feb 01, 2014 6:41 pm

First topic message reminder :

How will you get yourself into heaven?

On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Revisit substitutionary atonement or vicarious redemption and scapegoating with me just to refresh your memory.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNtBkOXItqw

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. Scapegoating IOW.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning as we all know that it is immoral to kill the innocent. God knows this yet Christians do not seem to. You do. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a son just to prove it's benevolence. When you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

If and when you say yes, you become his.

-----------------------------------

The other option in scriptures, a moral one, is shown here. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Scriptures indicate that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and as God’s will is supreme and cannot be thwarted, this will come to pass.

---------------------------------

It is a special distorted Christian view of love that sees, --- as the greatest act of love possible, --- their God condemning them, and then turning and demanding his son’s deaths and thus corrupting God's perfect justice. A bribe set by God as judge himself for himself. This is of course ridiculous.

Christians have an insane view of love, IMO.

Would you express your love for humanity or those you love by having your own child needlessly murdered?

Or if convinced that a sacrifice was somehow good, would you have the moral fortitude to step up yourself to that cross instead of sending your child?

Your cowardly God did not.

Regards
DL
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by Shirina on Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:13 pm

polyglide wrote:Floods, earth quakes in diverse places, brother fighting brother, illness in many forms etc; all in one generation. etc;

ROFL! Right, and we're going to have some 8 headed whore rise up and whatnot ... like a Godzilla movie.

What I find funny about Revelation is how all of these disasters happen at once, as if one disaster wouldn't preclude another. For instance, it's rather hard to fight WWIII when the earth is being pounded by meteor impacts.

It's just absurd to beleive in any of this rubbish. Sure, the sun will become as black as sackcloth ... and let's see how long we fight wars when the sun goes out.

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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by polyglide on Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:28 am

Sorry for not replying sooner Dan but the computer broke down.

The passage you refer to in Reverlations can be easily expained if you read on instead of just picking a section.

The lamb is representative of the food etc; God will provide for the faithful, this is expained and gives you the clear indication that all the other matters are sybolic.

The eyes indicate you can deceive others and maybe yourself but God sees everything and cannot be deceived.

The four beasts are as solicitors opening a will and explaining the contents etc;

So on and soforth.

Seek and ye shall find.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by polyglide on Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:31 am

Explained and symbolic. sorry.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by Dan Fante on Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:41 am

PG, putting aside what you earlier claimed (i.e. that Revelation validates your beliefs about the state of the world - although I fail to see how your interpretation above backs that up) you claim it's self-explanatory but that in itself is simply not true. There exists a wide variety of interpretations even within mainstream Christianity. The imagery used is obscure and complex and probably relates to events at the time within the Roman Empire etc. Notwithstanding the author being the victim of mental illness or exposure to ergot, or similar. It's probably more open to different readings than any other book in the Bible. To say it relates to current events is one thing, but to argue that is obvious is quite another. I don't think you'd get a single respected theologian that would agree with you either.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by polyglide on Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:52 am

I can understand your opinion and respect same, however, I do agree regarding the fact that different interpretations can be made, however, there can only be one actual intended purpose for each event mentioned and that is where seeking the meaning is critical in determining the actual events that will occur.

What is obvious is that everything is there, it is a matter of understanding what is there that poses the problem.

The state of the world is one indication of things to come.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by Dan Fante on Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:52 am

polyglide wrote:Explained and symbolic. sorry.
Also, since when has a lamb been symbolic of the provision of food in Christianity? That wouldn't be the obvious interpretation at all given other references within the New Testament.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by Dan Fante on Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:55 am

polyglide wrote:I can understand your opinion and respect same, however, I do agree regarding the fact that different interpretations can be made, however, there can only be one actual intended purpose for each event mentioned and that is where seeking the meaning is critical in determining the actual events that will occur.

What is obvious is that everything is there, it is a matter of understanding what is there that poses the problem.

The state of the world is one indication of things to come.

That completely contradicts what you said about being self-explanatory though.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by polyglide on Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:13 pm

No, it is self expanitory in as much, if you accept that it is symbolic then all you have to do is understand the meanings.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by Dan Fante on Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:15 pm

So not at all then. Laughing
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by stuart torr on Fri Feb 28, 2014 5:14 pm

As an atheist Dan, I will either rot in a box or get burnt to ashes, there is no heaven for me mate.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by Norm Deplume on Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:08 pm

Dan Fante wrote:
polyglide wrote:Explained and symbolic. sorry.
Also, since when has a lamb been symbolic of the provision of food in Christianity? That wouldn't be the obvious interpretation at all given other references within the New Testament.

I suppose a sufficiently fringe interpretation could claim that as Jesus was referred to as the lamb of God then food is provided through the ritual cannibalism of communion.

Not the least bit self-explanatory, though.

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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by Shirina on Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:02 pm

None of it really matters anyway, does it? In fact, the existence of humanity was utterly pointless. We're all on an express train to destruction, non-stop and no exits. Heh, we're so locked in to our inevitable demise that we can't even jump from the train. Since humanity never had the ability to create a better world for ourselves, nothing we did means a damn; even if we had all gotten together and created a utopia, God would have come along to kick the anthill just because he's God.

After all, according to polyglide's belief, this was all one big set-up. We were "programmed" to fail and never had a chance. Perhaps that is why God has consistently fought against our cooperative efforts. Confusing our languages at the Tower of Babel, for instance, all but guaranteed divisiveness and eventual mistrust and warfare. Or how about making the Bible vague and prone to wild interpretations? Yeah, that'll get people to fracture into groups, cults, sects, and denominations. And refusing to provide evidence for his existence will only divide everyone even more between believers and non-believers. Yay! I'll even send my angels out to people like Muhammed and Joseph Smith so they can start even more religions. Muhahahaha! Look at 'em fight amongst themselves NOW!

Meanwhile, our free will meant diddly squat because nothing we could have done would have prevented our apocalyptic doom.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by Penderyn on Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:16 pm

Dan Fante wrote:All this living by Jesus' example (whatever that is) is a load of guff anyway. All you need to do to be a Christian is to believe in God / Jesus and your reward for this is a place in heaven. According to the Bible anyway.

What is 'the Bible'? Christianity is contained - along with some other strange stuff - in the New Testament. What has all the archaic stuff to do with it?
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by polyglide on Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:51 pm

At the prersent time, to believe in Jesus and act accordingly.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by Penderyn on Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:19 pm

polyglide wrote:At the prersent time, to believe in Jesus and act accordingly.

Okay. What for the Old Testament?
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by polyglide on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:08 pm

The Old Testament is relevant to the times prior to the coming of Jesus, God will judge those of those times according to their behavior and actions of those times.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by Penderyn on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:42 pm

polyglide wrote:The Old Testament is relevant to the times prior to the coming of Jesus, God will judge those of those times according to their behavior and actions of those times.

What have they to do with us?
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by polyglide on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:46 pm

Nothing, the times are different and God's terms are different.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by polyglide on Tue Mar 04, 2014 3:04 pm

Stu, there is always hope that one day you will see the light and I pray you will do so.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by Penderyn on Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:52 pm

polyglide wrote:Nothing, the times are different and God's terms are different.

Good. Pax!
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by stuart torr on Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:57 pm

pg I see the light every day that I wake up,so there is no need to pray for me and waste your time honestly,give your time to someone who needs it please.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:12 pm

polyglide wrote:For the latter day people the one and only way is to accept that Jesus came to save the world and to seek forgiveness for our sins.

Everything prior to the birth of Jesus is tottaly irrelevant to the peopel of today.

I think you mean some people. I am not aware of any compelling evidence that Jesus was even born, and even he was his birth was no more significant than a host of other probable mythical legends such as Hercules or King Arthur.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:15 pm

polyglide wrote:At the prersent time, to believe in Jesus and act accordingly.

You seem very judgemental to me, how is that acting according to the teaching alleged to have come from Jesus?
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by polyglide on Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:02 am

God is the only one who can judge.

We can maybe delude ourselves but not God.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by stuart torr on Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:53 pm

My daughter judges me,and so does my pooch with her big brown eyes PG no god judges me I assure you.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:13 pm

polyglide wrote:God is the only one who can judge.

We can maybe delude ourselves but not God.

That's axiomatic, since god is an imaginary creation of the human mind.
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Post by stuart torr on Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:38 pm

Which one of the thousand gods that exist anyway Sheldon will judge us? Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Re: How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

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