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Do they understand?

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Do they understand?

Post by Heretic on Sun Mar 02, 2014 2:35 pm

First topic message reminder :

There is one kind of Christianity that never spoken about. This is the one where Christians see that the heart of God is broken because his children “Adam and Eve” chose the fruit of “the tree of the Fruit of the Knowledge of Good and Evil” rather than to live within his will and grow into his children. Mature children that would pass on through the generations his will and his Kingdom in their hearts. These children would not of needed a messiah because they would not of fallen.

It could be that this broken hearted God has worked tirelessly through the generations to establish the condition where a symbolic foundation could be made to start the restoration of mankind and at various levels through Noah, Abraham, Issac, Jacob eventually to Moses and through the history of the Jewish people up to the life of Jesus.

Jesus represents symbolically a rebirth of the ideal that Adam was meant to fulfil. Jesus would of established The Kingdom of God On Earth if the Jewish people had embraced him but instead for the sake of fear and a few other excuses. As a consequence of this betrayal by the Jewish people of God’s anointed one the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth could not be established, but there was enough of a foundation for God’s Kingdom to be established spiritually and for God to continue working with mankind but instead of through the Jewish people he elected to work through those that accepted and relied on Jesus as the foundation of their lives.

Parallels have been drawn between events in Jewish and Christian histories and significant events.

I don’t have time to check the reliability of the owners of the site but I have come across these ideas before http://www.puritans.net/news/parallelhistories022403.htm among other places I saw the essentials of Jewish / Christian parallel histories on a wall chart/poster in the office of a Catholic Priest.

What comes out to me from the Bible account of the Jewish people and early Christian history is how hard and how desperately God worked for man’s salvation and how that was don done primarily through the lives of significant people in a specific genealogy first of physically through the Jewish people and then spiritually through the Christians. This work has been tireless on the part of God but patchy on the part of those few significant men, men that everybody else needed to catch the coat-tails of.

The Jews still look for their Messiah, the Christians seek the return of theirs and Islam (which could be perceived as a successful attempt to bring the idol worshipping Bedouin into the monotheistic fold) are expecting a figure to come at some unspecified time in the future to wrap up history to some kind of conclusion [not dissimilar to Revelations and Jewish End time prophesies].

That was a very brief synopsis of monotheism but the striking thing is the effort of God and a tiny number of others. What gratitude does God get for this? From many people a false sense of gratitude and a shopping list, if I was God I might feel tempted to tell these where to go so it’s just as well I'm not God.

Where is the understanding of this parents broken heart, his patience, who can even imagine God crying each time one of us hurts him by, who can imagine wiping the tears of God and promising with every fibre in his existence that he will not hurt him again, who tries to undo all the harm they've done. I have seen this but not in a religious context. I have seen it when a repentant son asks his father for forgiveness, and seen the promise of good behaviour kept. Where it is not seen is in church, it is not seen in the prayers of Christians or in their hearts enacted (in their lives in other words).

[I will post this on two sites so if you happen to post on both then please forgive me but I have been thinking of this for a while].

Heretic

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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:25 pm

probably right there oftenwrong

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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Sat Mar 15, 2014 3:32 pm

PG,GOD Did not make me,and all the ill's of the world are usually bought about by greed,and avarice and large ego's i'm afraid,usually starting at the top,the world leaders,those at the bottom are the poorest and will forever be downtrodden by those at the top.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by snowyflake on Sun Mar 16, 2014 11:49 am

Hi stu, are you over here now? Hope you are ok. I'm getting a bit fed up with the trolls on the other site. Fed up with discussing this topic now after so many years. So I understand your frustration with certain of the posters.

In any case, hope you are feeling ok. Will pop back later.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:22 pm

Hi snowyflake, yes I am over here now my love,got totally fed up with the back biting etc from certain posters,and you could not have a conversation like I did with Ghost without interference. Surely a theist and atheist can converse without pushing god down my throat,just regarding our differences and why? the pleasant chap that he was too. take care anyway speak soon.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by polyglide on Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:05 pm

Stu, I could not agree more, man is the problem and God the answer.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:19 pm

god is not the answer PG,just that certain men cannot stand not being the centre of attention,as their ego's are to big on the other site that I was talking to snowyflake about.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by polyglide on Tue Mar 18, 2014 3:50 pm

I agree whole heartily regarding man being egoistic and that is the reason we are in such a state.

A little more understanding from all quarters would go a long way but the chances are very remote.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by Norm Deplume on Tue Mar 18, 2014 4:51 pm

polyglide wrote:I agree whole heartily regarding man being egoistic and that is the reason we are in such a state.

A little more understanding from all quarters would go a long way but the chances are very remote.

Egoism can be manifested in demanding that others agree with you, suppressing or persecuting dissenters and expecting obedience and worship. But that's gods for you.

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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:49 am

You could actually say the same for believers in gods too Norm could you not.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by polyglide on Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:36 pm

I do not demand anything from anyone but attempt through the gift Jesus has given us to show people there is an alternative to negative thought.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:46 pm

Exactly PG,positive thought is with myself today,and no holy person put it there.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by Dan Fante on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:02 pm

polyglide wrote:I do not demand anything from anyone but attempt through the gift Jesus has given us to show people there is an alternative to negative thought.

It doesn't seem to be doing you much good:

polyglide wrote:The world is too far gone, there are not enough people who care.

Those who fight, fight for their own ends and give no thought to anything else.

Those who believe in God fight with words that mainly fall on deaf ears.

I cannot see any future, irrespective of any other consideration, for mankind at all in the long term, he has strayed too far from what is right.

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Re: Do they understand?

Post by polyglide on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:26 pm

Stu,just give a little thought to what you have just said.

No one put it there.

Then where did it come from or the ability for it to arrise etc;
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:54 pm

A cheque owed to me put it there,my ex partner talking to me about our daughter put it there as we are on good terms again. you also spell arise with one r not two.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by polyglide on Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:36 pm

What is an r between friends.

I have thoughts that I do not want nor do I know from whence they come, our minds are not something we have complete control over
and this I feel is because of the depravity within present day man and his attention to everything but what he should be attending to.

I am pleased for you and you daughter and pray the good terms will even get better.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by Dan Fante on Wed Mar 19, 2014 2:51 pm

polyglide wrote: our minds are not something we have complete control over
Meaning free will is illusory.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Wed Mar 19, 2014 3:24 pm

PG,you really are madder than I thought,of course we have free will,you believe in god I do not,I have power over my mind thank-you.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by polyglide on Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:14 am

You only think you have control over your thoughts.

What you do have is the choice involved in how you deal with them.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by Dan Fante on Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:24 am

How can anyone make a choice without having the ability to control their own thoughts?
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:55 pm

PG, I do not have any romans holding me prisoner, beating me etc like they did in the bible, and also telling me how to think etc. I am in free UK where we have free thought, and no god telling me what to do either, get a grip of yourself man please.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by polyglide on Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:20 am

You are unable to understand logic.

Just explain how you arrived at your last thought. what put it into your head, thin air in your case.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:31 am

Ahahahah oh PG, you really do make me laugh at times.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by Dan Fante on Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:46 pm

polyglide wrote:You are unable to understand logic.

Just explain how you arrived at your last thought. what put it into your head, thin air in your case.
How can anyone make a choice without having the ability to control their own thoughts?
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by polyglide on Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:18 am

A thought just came into my head, is an oft made remark.

It is the manner in which we deal with our thoughts that matter not from whence they came.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:32 am

Yes thin air in your case PG.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by polyglide on Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:35 am

You are just a little wrong, it is with great care, not thin air.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by Greatest I am on Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:38 am

I see some shallow thinking here on Eden.

You are mostly focussed on the way Christianity sees a Jewish myth and even see the Jews in a poor light because of the way Christianity has interpreted the Jewish myth.

KIS people. It is not a complicated story for those who wrote it.

The main points are that Jews saw Eden as man's elevation and not his fall. They do not have the concept of original sin as befits anyone with any decent morals, and they see the virtue in seeking knowledge whereas Christians believe we should have stayed in ignorant bliss and they see no value in A & E becoming as God's in the knowing of good and evil as a part of their coming of age myth.

This shows how Jews think of Eden and our elevation.

http://www.mrrena.com/misc/judaism2.php

This clip shows how we should all deal with the given Gods until we develop our own internal one and as Jesus said, write the laws of God in our hearts.

Most here seem quite bent on winning arguments without educating the other side and seem to have forgotten how to love.

I may be one of the most guilty of that.

Regards
DL


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Re: Do they understand?

Post by Greatest I am on Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:40 am

Oops.

I forgot to give this clip.

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU

Regards
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by polyglide on Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:47 am

I love eveyone, though I must admit some more than others.

I do not wish to win any argument, I do not think there is one regarding God, the evidence is all around you.

I believe in the one God of creation.

There are other entities of a similar nature in the universe of that I have no doubt.

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Re: Do they understand?

Post by Greatest I am on Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:53 am

polyglide wrote:I love eveyone, though I must admit some more than others.

I do not wish to win any argument, I do not think there is one regarding God, the evidence is all around you.

I believe in the one God of creation.

There are other entities of a similar nature in the universe of that I have no doubt.


God has friends to discuss their various genocides over drinks. How nice for them.
They need to do something I guess as they watch us roast in hell.
IU hope you read that bit I wrote about how Christians might be hurting themselves with the belief in hell. I hope you will opine.

I am not sure if I wrote it out of a sense of love or one of hate for the belief. Let me know what you thin my motivation was.

Regards
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:56 am

Hope I get invites to the wedding between you two,

forgot. enjoy
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by polyglide on Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:14 pm

It would, I feel, be silly to assume that in the universe we are the main or the only life forms as those on earth.

There will no doubt be matters far beyond our understanding involved.

If you attempt to compare the life of, say a worm on earth with that of an elephant, then you can then start to visualise the possibilities involved in the universe.

Many people unfortunately make a hell on earth for themselves by the choices they make.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by Dan Fante on Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:06 pm

polyglide wrote:I love eveyone, though I must admit some more than others.

I do not wish to win any argument, I do not think there is one regarding God, the evidence is all around you.

I believe in the one God of creation.

There are other entities of a similar nature in the universe of that I have no doubt.

Claiming to love everyone cheapens the very concept of love. It makes it meaningless. It's also patently garbage and an attempt to appear more moral than anyone not making the same claim.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:04 pm

So very true Dan, I know I don't love everybody, but I do not hate the ones I do not love either.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:35 pm

There can be very little credibility attached to any claim of universal "love" or "hate".

Though Marmite may be an exception.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:02 pm

Boy do I hate that stuff oftenwrong
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by polyglide on Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:26 am

If you are told that if you put your finger in a fire it will get burnt and you put it in !!!!!!!!!!.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Fri Apr 04, 2014 1:00 pm

That's an old one PG, BEEN SAID MANY TIMES
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by polyglide on Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:59 am

Then why does it not register?.
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by stuart torr on Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:38 am

we like getting burnt
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Re: Do they understand?

Post by polyglide on Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:41 am

Now we are actually getting to the point.
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Re: Do they understand?

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