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Tell me, true or false?

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Tell me, true or false?

Post by toty5 on Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:28 am

Allah says (Ye who believe intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination, of Satan's handiwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.
 
- Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of God, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain?)  90-91].
Allah  
forbade about  drinking wine
 
the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him  forbade drinking wine
even small amounts , this is confirmed by the verses and hadiths by a thousand and four hundred years
 
But some doctors were claiming that a little wine can be a cure and heal , and some have claimed that a little of it animates Fouad , what says the latest study on the subject of wine?
 
In a study conducted by Dr Sarah Lewis of the Department of Social Medicine , University of Bristol found a strong relationship between alcohol intake and between high blood pressure , and said that drinking alcohol affects blood pressure much more than we thought previously. Has conducted a study on a specific segment of people who are suffering from their body 's inability to remove the effects of alcohol after eating . But that does not mean that the damage is limited to these , but every day reveals a new scientists about the damage alcohol .
 
The number of researchers confirmed that a man , even if eating a small amount of wine it would negatively affect the health and gradually lead to a rise in blood pressure , which causes sudden death of its owner , if not get rid of the final alcohol abuse .
 
Dr. Sarah says :
 
This study shows that alcohol consumption may increase blood pressure to a very large border more than we thought and even if a person drinking alcohol in small quantities .
 
And confirms the researchers that
if a person drinking wine  , even a small amount of it and then leave it remain in his body, the amount of alcohol does not disappear only after tens of days, did not specify the researchers exactly how much remains of alcohol in human cells after eating , and there is no accurate studies about it, but Prophet him and told us that the drinker does not accept his prayer God forty days ! ! ! Glory to God ! If the Holy Prophet wants us to be every cell of our body pure , pure ,
 
research has shown medical conducted on sleep, the brain is issued waves slow during sleep rights and these waves contribute to the production and release of growth hormone is essential for humans , researchers have found something surprising is that a man has eaten amount even if a few molecules of the wine , the wine travels through the blood to the brain and remain for long periods of time and work to confuse the brain is not able to launch electromagnetic waves during sleep and therefore the production of growth hormone depends not able to get to sleep naturally .
 
researchers comes today to  the same speech  and with confidence : Even small amount harm to humans and preferably permanently left ! ! ! This is science always comes to bear witness of the truth of this true religion, and that the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him when he forbade drinking wine or anything intoxicating
 
We say to those who abuse to
 
the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him
what the non-Muslims say read, and think about it, if you follow the scientific method of thinking is, get this result ....
 
You may have heard of the book, wrote a researcher from the West on "The one hundred most influential people in history," The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History, and what I noticed is that this classification itself surprised the author, before anyone else!
 
This author has to stay away great effort from this classification, made, and in particular, because the image of Islam has been distorted in the West bad, and because it could hurt the book, but he was able to escape this truth that Muhammad "peace and blessings of Allah upon Him was the most influential man "in the history of mankind is!
 
Michael H. Hart, author of the book says:
 
Dear readers, they may wonder why I have the name "Mohammed" is placed on the top of the list in this book, but there are compelling arguments that Muhammad is the only man who succeeded on both levels, religious and secular is. The influence of Muhammad's still as strak despite the passage of 14 centuries, and Muhammad is the only political leader who has managed to create a sovereign, who was very religious and scientifically successful, so he deserves the single most influential person in history to be:
 
It is this unparalleled combination of secular and religious influence which i feel entitles Muhammad to be Considered the most influential single figure in human history.
and say to my brothers and sisters in God be with you ! This prophet  worth us to  publish his miracle to know the whole world is our prophet and what is our religion? ! Therefore , I ask you to publish the miracles of the Holy Prophet,
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Dan Fante on Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:01 am

I need a drink after reading that.
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by toty5 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:04 am

Dan Fante wrote:I need a drink after reading that.

The meaning of this speech is very dangerous
This confirms Christians away for the actions and words of Jesus Christ, peace be upon him

Jesus also did not drink alcohol



The Perspective of Islam and Christianity

Proverbs 31: 6-7 "" Give intoxicating liquor, you people, to the one about to perish, and wine to those who are bitter of soul . Let one drink and forget one's poverty, and let one remember one's own trouble no more.""

Genesis 9:21-22 "" And he drank of the wine, and was drunken; and he was uncovered within his tent. And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.""

Genesis 9:24 "" And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.""

Genesis 19:32 "" Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.""

Numbers 6:20 "" And the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the LORD: this is holy for the priest, with the wave breast and heave shoulder: and after that the Nazarite may drink wine.""

Numbers 28:7 "" And the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering.""

The Holy Quran, 5:90-91 "You who believe! Intoxicants and Gambling, all are an abomination of Satan's handiwork. Eschew such abomination, that you may prosper. Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of God, and from prayer; will you not then abstain?"

Looking back, what seems strange to me now is not that people would wish to embody Jesus’ values, but that others would criticize them for it. What seems even stranger is that few Christians, in the modern day, match this profile. is that Muslims seemed to embody Jesus’ values better than Christians.
Jesus became one of the greatest prophets of God, and was sent to the Children of Israel in order to confirm the teachings of his predecessor, the Prophet Moses. His birth was a miracle, and, like all prophets of God, he was granted several miracles. He approached his people

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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Dan Fante on Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:03 pm

I'm not a Christian.
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by toty5 on Thu Apr 10, 2014 6:06 pm

JEWS

Jews are no exception and consumption of alcohol is prohibited for them also. According to Mosaic Law no fermented beverages are allowed during the Passover feast.

“Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread; On the first day you shall put away leaven out of your houses, for if any one eats what is leavened, from the first day until the seventh day, that person shall be cut off from Israel.”

Exodus 12: 15 (RSV)

“Seven days you shall eat unleavened bread, and on the seventh day there shall be a feast to the Lord. Unleavened bread shall be eaten for seven days; no leavened bread shall be seen with you, and no leaven shall be seen with you in all territory.”

Exodus 13: 6-7 (RSV)

As we can see there is no mention of wine or any fermented drinks in the Mosaic Law cited above.

Bacchiocchi (Ibid) supports the view that Jews are prohibited from drinking alcohol and he says “The Talmud prohibits drinking alcohol to the accompaniment of musical instruments at festive occasions such as weddings. This prohibition is confirmed by later testimony of the rabbis. For example S.M. Isaac, an eminent nineteenth-century rabbi and editor of The Jewish Messenger says, “ The Jews do not, in their feasts for sacred purposes, including the marriage feast, ever use any kind of fermented drinks. In their oblations and libations, both private and public they employ the fruit of the is, fresh grapes-unfermented grape juice, and raisins, as the symbol of benediction. Fermentation is to them always a symbol of corruption." Though Rabbi Isaac's statement is not quite accurate, since Jewish sources are not unanimous on the kind of wine to be used at sacred festivals, it still does indicate that some Jews used unfermented wine at wedding feasts.
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:33 pm

Nutters of the World - UNITE!
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Dan Fante on Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:35 am

Laughing I'm not Jewish either.
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by toty5 on Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:52 pm

In Australia, a country with a population of around 20 million, about 3000 people die each year from alcohol abuse while 65,000 others are hospitalised. Studies have consistently revealed a link between heavy drinking and brain damage and around 2500 Australians are treated annually for alcohol related brain damage. Research in the United Kingdom indicates that 6%


of cancer deaths are related to alcohol abuse and Harvard Centre for Cancer Prevention says that drinking greatly increases the risk for numerous cancers. Alcohol is considered highly carcinogenic, increasing the risk of mouth, pharynx, larynx, oesophagus, liver, and breast cancers. Drinking alcohol during pregnancy can lead to Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, causing the child to be small at birth, have some facial malformations, small eye openings, webbed or even missing fingers or toes, organ deformities, learning disabilities, mental retardation and much more.

Researchers in Australia have also estimated that 47% of all those who commit violent crimes, and 43% of all victims of these crimes, were drunk prior to the event. Alcohol is responsible for 44% of fire injuries, 34% of falls and drownings, 30% of car accidents, 16% of child abuse instances, and 7% of industrial accidents. Even though it is clear that alcohol is responsible

for a great many evils it is legal and even encouraged in most societies. In Muslim countries where alcohol is forbidden many people still find it difficult to resist temptation and fall prey to the disease that is alcoholism. Amazingly even in the light of such startling evidence against alcohol, people around the globe continue to consume alcohol in ever-increasing amounts


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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by boatlady on Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:56 pm

Thanks for all the copious amounts of information etc, toty5 - as this is a discussion forum I suspect people may be puzzled as to your agenda, as you don't seem open to discuss or even to express your own opinions.
This is not so much a conversation as an extended rant interrupted by a very little bit of heckling
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Dan Fante on Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:09 pm

The life expectancy in Australia (both for the current population as a whole and the projected ones of those being born now) is about ten years more than in Saudi Arabia (for example) so I find focussing purely on alcohol to be rather misleading and a rather peculiar basis for an argument about one culture getting things right in regards to health.
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Ivan on Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:02 pm

toty5 wrote:-
Jesus also did not drink alcohol
You may be right, but he didn't say that others shouldn’t drink alcohol, and he didn’t give them 70 lashes if they did. In fact, the first miracle which he is alleged to have performed in Cana in Galilee was to turn water into wine (John 2:1-11).
 
Your quotes about alcohol come from the Old Testament, which strikes a very different tone from the New Testament of Jesus. As Richard Dawkins wrote in ‘The God Delusion’: “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”
 
Alcohol is a drug and should therefore be used responsibly. It does indeed cause raised blood pressure in the short term, and excessive use can cause both liver disease and cancer. However, scientists believe that small amounts of alcohol can help people over 45 years of age. Alcohol appears to increase the level of ‘good’ cholesterol (HDL) in the blood, and that reduces the amount of fatty deposit (atheroma) which narrows our arteries and makes them more likely to clog. Furthermore, alcohol can help prevent the formation of blood clots which can close off the arteries, causing a heart attack. It can stop platelets from clumping together to form clots and, a small amount of alcohol with a meal can reduce the sudden rise of a protein (fibrinogen) produced by the liver which increases the likelihood of harmful blood clots forming (thrombosis).
 
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Seven benefits from drinking moderate amounts of alcohol are explained here:-
 
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So what about smoking, which has no health benefits whatsoever and kills far more people than alcohol? I’ve read that Mormons don’t allow smoking and that Jehovah’s Witnesses have prohibited it since 1973, interpreting it as one of the ‘unclean habits’ referred to in the Bible. In Saudi Arabia you can expect a whipping if you drink alcohol, but the country ranks 23rd in the world for the percentage of its population that smokes. That alone is evidence that smoking, though discouraged, is not universally banned throughout Islam. No doubt that’s because it wasn’t around in 7th century Arabia for a shepherd to issue dictums about.
 
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:33 pm

Moderation in everything. There are a number of things which are good servants but capable of being a bad Master, e.g. Fire, water, electricity and self-propelled vehicles as well as alcohol and drugs.
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by toty5 on Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:53 pm

[quote="Ivan"]
toty5 wrote:-
Jesus also did not drink alcohol
CHRISTIANS

Christians drink because they believe that there is nothing wrong when one drinks moderately alcoholic beverages. They even support their claim through medical research, that moderate drinking is good for the heart. They support their claim by stating that Jesus Christ (PBUH= peace be upon him) made fermented wine at the wedding in Cana; That he approved of intoxicant drinks in the parable of new wine skins and old wine; That he admitted to drinking wine in describing his lifestyle (”eating and drinking”). And by instituting the cup of the Lord’s Supper he commanded its use until eternity. In otherwords for the Christians, Jesus's (PBUH) example and teachings form the belief and practice. Logically and rationally if wine was good for Jesus (PBUH) it is also good for his followers.

"The Biblical terms for wine (yayin in Hebrew and oinos in Greek) are used in Scripture to refer to the juice of the grape, whether fermented or unfermented. This significant finding discredits the popular claim that the Bible knows only fermented wine, which it approves when used moderately. The truth of the matter is that the Bible knows both fermented wine, which it disapproves, and unfermented grape juice, which it approves.

Some of the reasons Scripture condemns the use of alcoholic beverages are that they distort the perception of reality (Is 28:7; Prov 23:33); they impair the capacity to make moral, responsible decisions (Lev 10:9-11); they weaken moral sensitivities and inhibitions (Gen 9:21; 19:32; Hab 2:15; Is 5:11-12); they cause physical sickness (Prov 23:20-21; Hos 7:5; Is 19:14; Ps 60:3); and they disqualify for both civil and religious service (Prov 31:4-5; Lev 10:9-11; Ezek 44:23; 1 Tim 3:2-3; Titus 1:7-Cool." (REF: S. Bacchiocchi. The Sobering Facts About New Testament Wine, Signs of the Times, January 1990)

"Contrary to popular opinion, in the ancient world the preservation of grape juice unfermented was a relatively simple process. It was accomplished by boiling down the juice to a syrup, or by separating the fermentable pulp from the juice of the grape by means of filtration, or by placing the grape juice in sealed jars which were immersed in a pool of cold water, or by fumigating the wine jars with sulphur before sealing them. The use of such techniques clearly indicates that the means of preserving grape juice without fermentation were known and used in the ancient world." (REF. Bacchiocchi, Ibid)

The Wedding at Cana

In the Bible (Revised Standard Version or RSV) in the book of John, Chapter 2 and verses 1-11, describe that Jesus (PBUH) his mother and his disciples were invited to a wedding at Cana in Galilee. Here Jesus (PBUH) shows a miracle by converting water into wine.

" When the steward of the feast tasted the water that was made wine, and did not know where it came from: the steward of the feast called the bridegroom, and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first; and when men have drunk freely, then the poor wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.” John 2: 10, 11.

Samuele Bacchiocchi (REF: S. Bacchiocchi. The Sobering Facts About New Testament Wine, Signs of the Times, January 1990, pp. 3-5 ) argues that "good wine" does not mean that it has a high alcoholic content.

He says Christians believe that the wine was fermented from grape juice and that the word “the best” (John 2: 10 NIV) is interpreted as “a high quality alcoholic wine.” He further states that the words “have drunk freely” does not mean that they were intoxicated from an overuse of fermented wine. According to Bacchiocchi the wine” used in the wedding at Cana was unfermented grape juice and that the Jews at that time knew how to preserve unfermented grape juice through the year. The expression “have drunk freely”, he says, “is used in the sense of satiation. It refers simply to the large quantity of wine generally consumed at a feast, without any reference to its intoxicating effects.”

One can read “In Cana, the disciples did not enjoy the new supply of wine but ‘believed in him’ who had made it (John 2: 11).” (The Broadman Bible commentary Vol. 9, 1970, p. 229).

“ And no one puts new wine into old “wineskins”; if he does, the wine will burst the skins, and the wine is lost, and so are the skins; but new wine is for fresh skins.”

Mark 2: 22



Christians interpret this verse to mean that Jesus (PBUH) is advising not to put “new wine into old wineskins.” This is rebuffed by Bacchiocchi by quoting Alexander B. Bruce (”The Synoptic Gospels” in The Expositor’s Greek Testament, Grand Rapids, 1956, p.500) “ Jesus was not thinking at all of fermented, intoxicating wine, but of must, a non-intoxicating beverage, which could be kept safely in new leather bottles, but not in old skins which had previously contained ordinary wine, because particles of albuminoid matter adhering to the kin would set up fermentation and develop gas with an enormous pressure.”

“ For John the Baptist (Yahya (AS)) has come eating no bread and drinking NO wine; and you say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of man has come eating and drinking; and you say, ‘Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!.'



Luke 7: 33,34 (RSV)

Again Christians believe that Jesus (PBUH), is admitting his ‘eating and drinking’ life style and they conclude that Jesus (PBUH), must be drinking alcoholic wine, otherwise he will not be called a “drunkard.” In counter argument, Bacchiocchi (Ibid) says “Jesus used the phrase “eating no bread and drinking no wine” to describe the life style of John the Baptist (Yahya (AS)) who was socially isolated, whereas Jesus describes his own life style as “ eating and drinking” meaning that Jesus lived a “life style free of social association.” “ The important point is in the words “Son of man has come eating and drinking” the word wine is missing. Hence if Jesus (PBUH) was a wine-drinker he could have repeated the word wine which he used in describing John the Baptist.

The word “drunkard” used against Jesus (PBUH) is a false accusation. Because on two occasions his adversaries said of him “you have a demon” (John 7:20., 8:118). Does it mean that Jesus (PBUH) had an evil spirit within him simply because his adversaries say so. Jesus (PBUH) was a Prophet and his life style of self-denial is the proof.

The following verses refer to the Last Supper of Christ (PBUH):

“Drink of it, all of you for this is my blood of the cove­nant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. I tell you I shall not drink again of this fruit of’ the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s Kingdom.”

Matthew 26: 28-29 (RSV).



“ And he said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant,

Which poured out for many. Truly, I say to you, I shall not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the Kingdom of’ God.”

Mark 14: 24-25 (RSV)

Christians believe that the wine used during the Last Supper was alcoholic because words “fruit of the vine” are interpreted as fermented wine. Secondly they assume that during Passover time Jews drink only fermented wine. Bacchiocchi (Ibid) says “Fermented wine is not the natural fruit of the vine but the unnatural fruit of fermentation and decay. The Jewish historian Josephus, who was a contemporary of the apostles, explicitly calls the three clusters of grapes freshly squeezed in a cup by Pharaoh’s cupbearer “the fruit of the vine.” Thus the phrase was used to designate the sweet unfermented juice of the grape….

Christ could hardly have commanded “all” of his followers through the ages to drink the cup if it contained alcoholic wine. There are some to whom alcohol in any form is very harmful. We cannot conceive of Christ bending over to bless in grateful prayer a cup containing alcoholic wine which the Scripture warns us not to look at (Prov 23:31). A cup that intoxicates is a cup of cursing and not "the cup of blessing" (1 Cor 10:16); it is "the cup of demons" and not "the cup of the Lord" (1 Cor 10:21); it is a cup that cannot fittingly symbolize the incorruptible and "precious blood of Christ" (1 Peter 1:18-19). This gives us reason to believe that the cup He "blessed" and gave to His disciples did not contain any "fermented thing"

prohibited by Scripture.



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Why does Islam forbid alcohol ?

I've Islam forbids alcohol consumption in the words of the Almighty right : { O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah ], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful.} Al-Mā'idah 90 . Modern science has come to confirm and prove what the Koran Quon long ago .

It has been proven scientifically many disadvantages caused by the abuse of alcohol , even in small quantities .

The path of alcohol in the body when taken

1) Mouth : alcohol enters the body through the mouth .

2) Stomach : some alcohol enters the blood .

3) the small intestine : up to the small intestine , O Take the way to the circulatory system.

4) Heart : The heart pumps the wine to the body .

5 ) brain : As the wine up to the brain .

The effects caused by alcohol on the nervous system are:

The influence of alcohol with a small amount :

1 ) causes relaxation.

2) impair the ability to concentrate .

3) slow neurological repercussions .

4) impair motor coordination .

Medium quantity :

1) Talk inconspicuously .

2) also cause dizziness .

3) and leads to a feeling of emotional change .

A large amount :

1) causes vomiting

2) the difficulty in breathing .

3) loss of consciousness .

4 ) leads to coma.

Alcohol affects the cerebellum , cerebral cortex , the brain stem and spinal cord .


National Academy of Sciences.Dietary reference intakes for thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, vitamin B6, folate, vitamin B12, pantothenic acid, biotin, and choline. 1999.

Morgan, M.Y. Alcohol and nutrition. British Medical Bulletins 38:21–29, 1982.

Martin, P.R.; Singleton, C.K.; and Hiller–Sturmhöfel, S.H. The role of thiamine in alcoholic brain disease. Alcohol Research & Health 27(2):134–142, 2003.

\\\\\\\\\\




Er what kind of religious nation is the Islamic Republic of
Saudi Arabia?



Saudi Arabia only has two cities, which only Muslims may enter. The rest of the Kingdom is intertwined.


Who told you that smoking is halal in Islam?
Regrettably
Many non-Muslims

Built his ideas about Islam
By random acts Muslims
But
Basically
These acts are not true
I beseech you to excuse
You do not know
Not studying Arabic and Islamic law
Like me

Therefore
I'm here to clarify the truth of the matter
Of the Holy Qur'an and the Hadith
wine was prohibited
-Example

Smoking
Not in the Qur'an
But
Falls under
Allah warned in the Holy Qur'an
Of anything that hurt health
Alcohol, drugs and smoking
Are all involved in one item

Allah says in the Holy Qur'an

195. And spend in the Cause of Allah (ie Jihad of all kinds, etc.) And do not throw yourselves into destruction (by not spending your wealth in the Cause of Allah), and do good. Truly, Allah loves Al-Muhsinun (the good-doers


All the rules in Islam

Imposed or prohibited
The foundation
Protection
Human


Allah says in the Holy Qur'an
29. . And do not kill yourselves (nor kill one another). Surely, Allah is Most Merciful to you.
Surah An-Nisa'
157. Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write (ieMuhammad) whom they find written with them in the Taurat (Torah) (Deut, xviii, 15) and the Injeel (Gospel) (John xiv, 16), - he commands them for Al-Ma'ruf (ie Islamic Monotheism and all that Islam has ordained); and forbids them from Al-Munkar (ie disbelief, polytheism of all kinds, and all that Islam has forbidden); he allows them as lawful At-Taiyibat [(ie all good and lawful) as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.], and prohibits them as unlawful Al-Khaba'ith (ie all evil and unlawful as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.), he releases them from their heavy burdens (of Allah's Covenant), and from the fetters (bindings) that were upon them. So those who believe in him (Muhammad), honour him, help him, and follow the light (the Qur'an) which has been sent down with him, it is they who will be successful.
Surah Al-A'raf


26.. But spend not wastefully (your wealth) in the manner of a spendthrift .

27. Verily, spendthrifts are brothers of the Shayatin (devils), and the Shaitan (Devil - Satan) is ever ungrateful to his Lord.
Surah Al-Isra'
5. And give not unto the foolish your property which Allah has made a means of support for you , but feed and clothe them therewith, and speak to them words of kindness and justice.
Surah An-Nisa

100. Say (O Muhammad ): "Not equal are Al-Khabith (all that is evil and bad as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.) and At-Taiyib (all that is good as regards things, deeds, beliefs, persons, foods, etc.), even though the abundance of Al-Khabith (evil) may please you." So fear Allah much [(abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)], O men of understanding in order that you may be successful.
Surah Al-Ma'idah
Addictive-Noxious Smell-Waste of Money

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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Ivan on Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:51 pm

toty5. I am indeed fortunate that, as an atheist, I’m not told what I have to think by texts written hundreds or even thousands of years ago. Everybody knows that consuming excessive amounts of alcohol damages your health, but I’ve already shown, with sources, that moderate consumption can have some health benefits.
 
Christ could hardly have commanded “all” of his followers through the ages to drink the cup if it contained alcoholic wine.
Yes he could. I can only speak for UK history, but alcohol consumption didn't start to be questioned by some Christians until the eighteenth century. That was when gin was cheap, vast quantities of it were consumed and William Hogarth highlighted its effects in a print. Beer was drunk by most people, especially as water supplies were often seriously polluted.
 
What interests me here is your motivation in trying to claim that all alcohol is bad for the person, even though there is some evidence to the contrary. Are you just slavishly following various interpretations of the texts of your religion? Because if you are genuinely concerned about the well-being of people, I would expect you to be condemning the savage physical punishments imposed in some Islamic societies for consuming alcohol. Having a drink may or may not be bad for your health, but being lashed 70 times most certainly is.
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by boatlady on Sat Apr 12, 2014 9:19 am

And, toty5, in replying, please try to remember that this is a DISCUSSION forum
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by toty5 on Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:11 am

A scientific study proved that human may be affected by what he or she believe even if it is wrong and just thinking in a fake thing may affect our behavior……



A research performed by Seema Assefi and Maryanne Garry, two psychologists at Victoria University in New Zealand illustrated that human memory can be affected by alcohol.

Tests showed that participants in an experiment who were told they were drinking vodka, but were not, were more swayed by misleading information and more certain their memory was correct than those who were told they were drinking tonic water. Dr Garry says the research has given new insights into how human memory works and how both social and non-social influences can affect a person's recall of events.



"What we have done is that we have made people's memory worse by telling them that they were intoxicated even though they had drunken nothing stronger than plain flat tonic water with limes," he adds.

In the study, 148 students were split into two groups, half being told they were getting vodka and tonic and the rest told they were getting just tonic. In reality, all were getting just plain tonic. The research was carried out in a bar-like room equipped with bartenders, vodka bottles, tonic bottles, and glasses.

Researchers poured flat tonic water from sealed vodka bottles to appear genuine. The deception was completed by rimming glasses with limes dunked in vodka

.

After consuming their drinks, the students watched a sequence of slides depicting a crime. They also read a summary of the crime that contained misleading information.



Scientists say that just thinking about Alcohol can make people tipsy

"We found people who thought they were intoxicated were more suggestible and made worse eyewitnesses compared with those who thought they were sober," Seema Assefi says. “In fact the 'vodka and tonic' students acted drunk, some even showing physical signs of intoxication," she adds.

"When students were told the true nature of the experiment at the completion of the study, many were amazed that they had only received plain tonic, insisting that they had felt drunk at the time," she comments. Dr Garry concludes: "It showed that even thinking you've been drinking affects your behavior

.

Some figures about Alcohol consumption in United Kingdom

Statistics in 2003 showed the following figures about alcohol around the UK:

• One in three men and one in five women fail to drink sensibly.

• Youngsters are starting to binge-drink at an earlier age.as the binge-drinking period that was once confined to the late teens runs from 16 to 24.

• Officials say that the government would have to increase spending on alcohol services from £100m to £300m.

• Governmental reports say that Britain's binge drinking culture is costing the country £20 billion a year and 17 million working days are lost to hangovers and drink-related illness each year.

• Billions more are spent clearing up alcohol-related crime and social problems. In addition, alcohol-related problems are responsible for 22,000 premature deaths each year and Up to1.3 million children are affected by parents with drink problems.

\\\\\

Regrettably
Many non-Muslims

Built his ideas about Islam
By random acts Muslims
But
Basically
These acts are not true
I beseech you to excuse
If there is shortening in some Muslim countries, or of some to associate Islam - he is a failure because of ignorance, and distance from the application of the laws of religion, and the burden in on the mistake and religion is unconnected with the consequences of those shortcomings.
The remedy for that error can only be by reference to the guidance of Islam and its teachings; for the treatment of error.

The Western civilization can hardly know anything of such meanings,


But Islam prohibits alcohol and 99 % per cent of Muslims
don't drinking wine

This is an achievement

Even after knowing the dangers and disadvantages of drinking, few Muslims and almost all of the Jews and Christians indulge in drinking alcohol.

A Muslim may wonder if Allah (SWT= The Mighty, The Exalted) prohibited wine and other intoxicating drinks to Muslims why did He not prohibit the same to the Christians and Jews through the Bible and Torah respectively. We are told in the Qur’an that the Jews and the Christians altered or misinterpreted their Scriptures to suit their needs and cravings.


See here


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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by toty5 on Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:51 am

Someone told me
As-Salāmu Alaykum Brother toty

   Thank for sharing this.Alcohol and drugs are evil tools used for profit with a government tax and seal.


   Your videos are true these things eat away at the heart, brain, liver, lungs etc... and are a false solace in the moments of sadness, grief, or disappointment. It is another thing that keeps us from achieving " being all one can be." The mind has to clear. The problems in life no matter how unpleasant or ugly. Must be acknowledged first, looked at in some detail and taken on in such a manner to eliminate or greatly minimize so things become manageable. Drugs and alcohol cloud judgement, and disorients people.

       Tell me true or false?,,,,,,why?



   You give a very balanced outline of the teaching of the Quran and of the Bible.
   You provided statistics, and of course information about alcohol and drug abuse I know is true.

   I was taught and learned at a very early age that it is not right to be judgmental of what others do, or think. My mother taught me that. I sat with her possibly more than my other siblings and talked. I wanted to truly know my mother. I asked her questions because I could as a child sense her pain. She would not like many others show it outright on her face or in words. I sensed it. I knew so I would ask.

   She shared what she knew and understood of my father. She told me of how they met, how much he actually loved her and some of the words he used telling her how pretty she was.
   How he fought a good fight, and bit a policeman on the leg. He fought on his feet and on the ground. But a physical fight is different from a psychological one. I think after he did his tour in WWII in Germany. He possibly came back different.
   Racism in America's military, tolerating mistreatment at home in America and abroad as less than. Can take it's toll.

   Made him bitter somewhat and he lost sight of humility. Men often have no other man he can actually speak to. Not in a way where he can say. That hurt me. That is hurtful and unacceptable. That or this is not fair. You are told "life is not fair" get used to it. Be a man, suck it up. Your acting like a girly-man stuff. So men hold in those pains and it materializes elsewhere in their lives. No man or woman can bottle up unhappiness, pain and mistreatment and expect it to not manifest in some other behavior or manner. By not having outlets, being able to say or share your feelings causes more problems. when a lady tries to share her. Some men will do the same to hers. Shut them down.

   I believe It's a false notion and understanding that men should not feel pain, feel bad, get scared as a man. A man with wisdom and understanding of himself and life ( eyes open and conscious to his influences ) of course knows how to work through those emotions and channel them in a proper manner so that no more loss or harm is done.
   While my father was alive, I talked with him as much as possible. In many ways ( emotionally ) he was absent. He laughed and he had wisdom. He is survived by my mother, five sisters and four boys.. this includes me. We all speak well of him. Honor our father and mother. We loved him until his last days and he knew this because we said to him we loved him.

   He taught me Humility. Which is based on not being centered on the self. Think of how someone else would react, respond or feel about some of the things you do.

   But Alcohol kept him from practicing what he preached. My father was an alcoholic.

   Sober during his working hours but drunk after. He held a lot of pain in his understanding and in life. Racism I know played a part. Pressures at work or just the responsibilities it takes to be a man can be daunting to some. How he tried to remain humble, had to be humble and still be a Man in America. For African Americans this is still an issue. Many drink in excess to escape the pain of poverty and mistreatment experienced. Retreating into this false world of feel good, good feeling while under the influence. Only to wake to more or another stressful nightmare.

   Happiness like time is fleeting. You can chase them, can't contain either, but want more.

   This led to him spending more time in the streets drinking with his Fair-weather friends - A friend who is only a friend when circumstances are pleasant or profitable for them. Who supports others only when it is easy and convenient to do so.

   Instead of coming home where he could close the door. Not expect to be judged. Where he could have expressed what he felt and grew stronger against that which stood against him. Supported by those he cared about, that cared about him and were in his life. But in his generation he was taught a man has to bottle up all ills.


   Not being at home where he could close the door and leave the problems outside. His years of abuse caught up and seriously disabled him. I have five sisters, three brothers. We love him no less.
   We have a saying in America " a rolling stone gathers no moss." My father was a rolling stone.
   So this prompted me early in life to really pay attention to behavior and know when there may be unspoken things happening in the lives of those around me. That may need addressing, discussed or pointed out

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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Dan Fante on Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:24 pm



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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:42 pm

toty5 wrote: ..............

But Islam prohibits alcohol and 99 % per cent of Muslims
don't drinking wine

This is an achievement

Even after knowing the dangers and disadvantages of drinking, few Muslims and almost all of the Jews and Christians indulge in drinking alcohol.

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"Few Muslims (indulge in drinking alcohol)."

It's a shame to prick the bubble of such certainty, but be assured that many, many Muslims are very well acquainted with the taste of alcohol. Every large town in Morocco has a drinking-den, approached through a doorway curtained from the street. In e.g. Tunisia, it's not hard to find a restaurant offering a wine-list, and there will usually be a (strongly fortified against burglary) grog-shop somewhere in each principal town. The clients are exclusively male, and the atmosphere both furtive and lacking in much evidence of pleasure.

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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Ivan on Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:19 pm

toty5 wrote:-
We are told in the Qur’an that the Jews and the Christians altered or misinterpreted their Scriptures to suit their needs and cravings.
Maybe the scriptures are contradictory, or perhaps the Jews and Christians just cherry-pick the ones they like? Muslims wouldn’t do anything like that, I suppose? Why do you think there are differences within Islam?
 
Writing in ‘The Spectator’ in July 2005, Patrick Sookhdeo, the director of the Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity, wrote: “By far the majority of Muslims today live their lives without recourse to violence, for the Qur’an is like a pick-and-mix selection. If you want peace, you can find peaceable verses. If you want war, you can find bellicose verses.” And the Bible is much the same. But I digress; this thread is about the effects of alcohol.
 
The moderator boatlady posted the following on this thread:-
please try to remember that this is a DISCUSSION forum
Nobody in their right mind will argue with the fact that excessive amounts of alcohol can damage your health, but in so-called ‘free’ societies we are free to weigh up the risks and benefits for ourselves - without being a slave to the contents of ancient texts. And you still haven’t answered as to whether you think people who drink alcohol should be punished, often in ways that definitely damage their health.
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Dan Fante on Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:06 am

oftenwrong wrote:
"Few Muslims (indulge in drinking alcohol)."

It's a shame to prick the bubble of such certainty, but be assured that many, many Muslims are very well acquainted with the taste of alcohol.  Every large town in Morocco has a drinking-den, approached through a doorway curtained from the street.   In e.g. Tunisia, it's not hard to find a restaurant offering a wine-list, and there will usually be a (strongly fortified against burglary) grog-shop somewhere in each principal town.  The clients are exclusively male, and the atmosphere both furtive and lacking in much evidence of pleasure.
My mate, who lives in Paris, reckons most of the young Muslims of North African descent he encounters (and he knows a fair few) drink. The men do, anyway.
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by toty5 on Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:03 pm

Ivan wrote:
toty5 wrote:-
We are told in the Qur’an that the Jews and the Christians altered or misinterpreted their Scriptures to suit their needs and cravings.
Maybe the scriptures are contradictory, or perhaps the Jews and Christians just cherry-pick the ones they like? Muslims wouldn’t do anything like that, I suppose? Why do you think there are differences within Islam?
 
Writing in ‘The Spectator’ in July 2005, Patrick Sookhdeo, the director of the Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity, wrote: “By far the majority of Muslims today live their lives without recourse to violence, for the Qur’an is like a pick-and-mix selection. If you want peace, you can find peaceable verses. If you want war, you can find bellicose verses.” And the Bible is much the same. But I digress; this thread is about the effects of alcohol.
 
The moderator boatlady posted the following on this thread:-
please try to remember that this is a DISCUSSION forum
Nobody in their right mind will argue with the fact that excessive amounts of alcohol can damage your health, but in so-called ‘free’ societies we are free to weigh up the risks and benefits for ourselves - without being a slave to the contents of ancient texts. And you still haven’t answered as to whether you think people who drink alcohol should be punished, often in ways that definitely damage their health.


Islamic law
From God to the people
A curriculum and the Constitution of the life of this world and the Hereafter
Straightening the life of a Muslim
Islam is innocent of the actions of governments
The application of Islamic law
Will provide safety and protection and happiness
Muslim and non-Muslim
Like
Amr ibn al-Aas in the conquest of Egypt


Baha'i, the Shiites and Ismailis
Have nothing to do with Islam
No matter how you try to prove a negative




There is no such thing as a modern mechanism of Sharia, since its source is the infallible inspiration (revelation). Thus, this Sharia, in fact, is applicable in all times and places and comprehensive to each and every situation and occasion. Thereupon, our scholars have named the following primary sources of Sharia:
1. The Qur'an and Sunnah 2. Ijma' (consensus of Muslim scholars).
There are other sources of Sharia. Among these are:
1. Qiyas (Analogy) 2. Istislah (Consideration of the public interest)
3. Istihsan (Application of discretion in a judicial decision and approval)
4. Sharia of previous religions which does not contradict the Sharia of Islam.
5. Al-Istishab (Approvals of the past which apply in the present, and future). 6. The Prophet's Companion's opinion.
There is no agreement among scholar about the last six sources of Sharia. However applying the ruling of Qiyas (Analogy) is agreed by all Muslim scholars except Ahl-al-Zaher and their disagreement in this matter does not have any weight.


The Muslim ruler must apply the Sharia Hudud ruling (Islamic law). He should not be lax in applying them regardless of the possible consequences. Indeed it is Allah who has prescribed these rules on His slaves and He knows what is good for them. Allah Says (interpretation of meaning): {Should not He Who has created know? And He is the Most Kind and Courteous (to His slaves) All-Aware (of everything).}[67: 14].
Allah is The Most Gracious, The Most Compassionate, So He does not order people to do what is bad for them or what can lead to perversion and depravation. Is there any act worse than killing people, oppressing them, stealing them, misrespecting their dignity, spoiling their transactions? No doubt, that disrupting the application of Sharia law increases the percentage of crimes and make the latter common normal things as seen in the world today, which has replaced Sharia by man-made law. This derived law is not based on any basis of truth or justice.
On the other hand if Islamic law, namely, Hudud is applied in a given country, it is applied on the Muslim citizens only. If a Muslim and a non-Muslim bring an affair in front of a judge, he should study it and give a fair decision allotting each one of them his full rights. Whenever non-Muslims have lived in a Muslim country but they have always been treated according to some special criteria. There are books of Fiqh that determine the Zimmi's (non-Muslim living in a Muslim country) rights in a Sharia applying state.

There is always hope in reform and a return to Islamic law
The application of Islamic law
Will provide safety and protection and happiness

Infidel can become a good Muslim
For one reason
Do not confuse culture, customs and traditions
And between
The correct Islamic approach

This is something a treasure for the unbeliever
His life changed for the better

Can not abandon it




If you want to know Islam properly
[Must study the Qur'an and the Hadith]

And not through acts of random people


\\\\\\

\\\\
The Creator created us as free people in the world and also has placed prophets sent by the exhortation to the people on earth and had to lay solid. The creator has said: The man who seeks God will my satisfaction embark and the man who seeks the satisfaction of the subject matter, his own path. But! Every man will be on the day of resurrection to life and the people will return to their master groups. That is the day of judgment which man gets to hear what she has brought forth, and what they would have been apparent. Whoever has wronged will on that day his promised punishment, and the one who has done well (surrender to God) will reward fully received. Wait why we wait with you. The time will be soon! A man lives only a fraction of a second when the actual duration of the beginning of creation to the end of creation would calculate. Therefore, awareness and research necessary and folly,

arrogance and envy pure waste of time. For this reason I am looking for the satisfaction of God, because we are not aimlessly on earth are placed. We have an agent and that is that we encourage the good and good acts, so we promised paradise our goal will obtain. We have a choice between good and evil.


Exactly common sense is the key point in our life. According to common sense, the most knowledgeable Individual about the creation would be its creator, for example: the producer of one car is the one that could answer all the questions related to this car its purpose, how to use it...

In our case, the Creator of Human being would be the appropriate one to determine what is good and what is bad for them. In order to fulfill this requirement, He sent different messenger and prophets (Peace be upon them) in order to teach people how to behave.
Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him

Talked about all religious and worldly matters

Because Islam
Constitution and approach to life

In eating and sleeping and praying, bathing and transactions between people and so on

Religion is not just a ritual only

Pray and then go out to lie and drinking alcohol and lack of hygiene and adultery

Like other religions



/////

regrettably

Penalty of wine to not apply now
Because if the penalty applied  now
Will not open any vintage shop in Muslim countries


With regard to the punishment of the drinker in this world, the punishment is flogging, according to the consensus of the fuqaha’, because of the report narrated by Muslim (3281) from Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him), who said that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) flogged the one who had drunk wine with palm branches stripped of their leaves and with shoes.

But there is some difference of opinion as to the number of lashes. The majority of scholars are of the view that it is eighty lashes for a free man and forty for others.

They quoted as evidence the hadeeth of Anas quoted above, in which it says that a man who had drunk wine was brought to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and he had him flogged forty times with two palm branches that had been stripped of their leaves. Abu Bakr also did likewise (during his caliphate). When ‘Umar was the caliph, he consulted the people and ‘Abd al-Rahmaan said, “The minimum punishment is eighty,” so that is what ‘Umar commanded.

The Sahaabah agreed with ‘Umar (may Allaah be pleased with him) and did not differ. The Council of Senior Scholars is agreed that the punishment for one who drinks wine is the hadd punishment, which is eighty lashes.

Some of the scholars – such as Ibn Quddamah (may Allaah have mercy on him) and Shaykh al-Islam [Ibn Taymiyah] in al-Ikhtiyaaraat – think that giving more than forty lashes is left to the discretion of the Muslim leader. So if he thinks that there is a need to give more than forty lashes, as happened at the time of ‘Umar, then he may make it eighty. And Allaah knows best.”



With regard to the wine-drinker’s prayer and fasting, undoubtedly he is obliged to perform the prayers on time and to fast in Ramadaan. If he neglects any of his prayers or fasts, then he is committing a major sin which is worse than the sin of drinking alcohol. If he drinks wine during the day in Ramadaan then he is committing two major sins: the first is breaking the fast during the day in Ramadaan and the second is drinking alcohol.  He should note that if a Muslim falls into sin and is unable to repent because his faith is weak that does not justify him persisting in sin or failing to do acts of worship and being negligent concerning them. Rather he should do whatever he can of acts of worship and strive to give up the major sins that he is committing. We ask Allaah to help us to avoid sins, both major and minor, for He is the All-Hearing, Ever Near.

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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Ivan on Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:38 pm

toty5 wrote:-
Baha'i, the Shiites and Ismailis have nothing to do with Islam
That’s your opinion. I suspect they may beg to differ.
 
Whenever non-Muslims have lived in a Muslim country but they have always been treated according to some special criteria.
In Malaysia maybe, but try telling that to Christians who want to practise their faith and "spread the word" in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan.
 
Being an atheist, I won’t be told what to think and I don’t need to hide behind a plethora of religious texts. Most of your latest post has nothing to do with the subject of this thread, which is whether or not alcohol is bad for your health. In excess it is bad, and your health is likely to suffer, no argument. Yet you are unable or unwilling to see that lashing people for drinking alcohol damages their health. If you were genuinely concerned with people’s well-being, and not just a religious fanatic peddling a narrow, extreme and highly offensive point of view, you might well not want people to drink, but you certainly wouldn’t want them to be flogged.
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by toty5 on Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:17 am

Why increasing numbers of young people drinking alcohol

1 - as a result of peer pressure and tradition (the influence of friends).
2 - some people have false beliefs that drinking alcohol makes them feel happy and helps them to spend a good time and eliminates shame.
3 - as a result of being bored and looking for excitement in life.
4 - Some people believe that alcohol abuse will help to overcome the problems
5 -  role models bad young man's family who are abusing alcohol and encourage it.



(1) nose :

And nose as we know is a member of smell in the human body whereby one can distinguish between different smells , have been found to abuse alcohol addiction weaken that sense the task , which could eventually lead to the loss of such grace

Also cause injury to the nose in the wine tumor bullosa (Rhinophyma) or what is known as nose Drunkard , where deformation occurs deep in the nose may require him to make it a facelift .

(2) the pharynx :

Is a corridor which fork to each of the esophagus ( food that connects to the stomach ) and the larynx and trachea



And cause the wine to the side of the injury recurring inflammation pharynx (Pharyngitis) , which makes the patient hates his life as a result of repeated where infected with difficulty in swallowing permanently , in addition to other symptoms.

Scientific research has shown the role of alcohol in cancer of the pharynx .

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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Ivan on Wed Apr 23, 2014 1:45 pm

toty5. As I've said previously, nobody in their right mind would argue that excessive drinking is harmful to your health, so your last message was pointless. But not everyone who drinks alcohol abuses it.
 
Still you won’t answer my question! If you’re so concerned about people’s health and well-being, why won’t you condemn the Islamic punishment of ripping the skin off people’s backs with a whip or a cane if they’ve been caught ‘harming’ themselves with alcohol? How can that be anything but detrimental to their health? Can’t you see your hypocrisy?
 
If a 7th century shepherd had said that we must drink alcohol, would you then refuse to condemn vicious punishments for those who didn’t imbibe it? I feel so sorry for you, being a slave to obscure ancient texts which tell you what you must think and say. However, in that respect I guess you’re no different from fundamentalists in other religions.
 
Doubt is not a pleasant condition. But certainty is absurd." (Voltaire)
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by boatlady on Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:36 pm

“Doubt is not a pleasant condition. But certainty is absurd." (Voltaire)

That is so true!!!
You can bet your life that the minute you start to feel completely certain about something, that's the time events or revealed wisdom will show you to be but a callow fool
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by toty5 on Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:56 am

Ivan wrote:toty5. As I've said previously, nobody in their right mind would argue that excessive drinking is harmful to your health, so your last message was pointless. But not everyone who drinks alcohol abuses it.
 
Still you won’t answer my question! If you’re so concerned about people’s health and well-being, why won’t you condemn the Islamic punishment of ripping the skin off people’s backs with a whip or a cane if they’ve been caught ‘harming’ themselves with alcohol? How can that be anything but detrimental to their health? Can’t you see your hypocrisy?
 
If a 7th century shepherd had said that we must drink alcohol, would you then refuse to condemn vicious punishments for those who didn’t imbibe it? I feel so sorry for you, being a slave to obscure ancient texts which tell you what you must think and say. However, in that respect I guess you’re no different from fundamentalists in other religions.
 
Doubt is not a pleasant condition. But certainty is absurd." (Voltaire)



Allah
forbade about drinking wine

the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him forbade drinking wine



I am a Muslim I respect the words of God

Jesus also did not drink alcoh


Islamic law
From God to the people
A curriculum and the Constitution of the life of this world and the Hereafter
Straightening the life of a Muslim
Islam is innocent of the actions of governments
The application of Islamic law
Will provide safety and protection and happiness
Muslim and non-Muslim

regrettably

Penalty of wine to not apply now
Because if the penalty applied now
Will not open any vintage shop in Muslim countries



There is always hope in reform and a return to Islamic law
The application of Islamic law
Will provide safety and protection and happiness

Infidel can become a good Muslim
For one reason
Do not confuse culture, customs and traditions
And between
The correct Islamic approach

This is something a treasure for the unbeliever
His life changed for the better

Can not abandon it



[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]
If you want to know Islam properly
[Must study the Qur'an and the Hadith]

And not through acts of random people



Looking back, what seems strange to me now is not that people would wish to embody Jesus’ values, but that others would criticize them for it. What seems even stranger is that few Christians, in the modern day, match this profile. is that Muslims seemed to embody Jesus’ values better than Christians.

1. Jesus was bearded, as are most Muslims, but only the rare Christian.

2. Jesus dressed modestly. If we close our eyes and form a mental picture, we see flowing robes, from wrists to ankles—much like the loose Arabian thobes and the Indio-Pakistani shalwar kameez, typical of the Muslims of those areas. What we don’t imagine is the revealing or seductive clothing so ubiquitous in Christian cultures.

3. Jesus’ mother covered her hair, and this practice was maintained among the Christian women of the Holy Land up to the middle of the twentieth century. Again, this is a practice maintained among Muslims as well as Orthodox Jews (of which Jesus was one), but not among modern day Christians.
Manners

1. Jesus focused upon salvation and eschewed finery. How many “righteous” Christians fit this “It’s not just on Sundays” profile? Now how many “five prayers a day, every day of the year” Muslims?

2. Jesus spoke with humility and kindness. He didn’t “showboat.” When we think of his speeches, we don’t imagine theatrics. He was a simple man known for quality and truth. How many preachers and how many evangelists follow this example?

3. Jesus taught his disciples to offer the greeting of “Peace” (Luke 10:5), and then set the example: “Peace be with you” (Luke 24:36, John 20:19, John 20:21, John 20:26). Who continues this practice to this day, Christians or Muslims? “Peace be with you” is the meaning of the Muslim greeting, “Assalam alaikum.” Interestingly enough, we find this greeting in Judaism as well (Genesis 43:23, Numbers 6:26, Judges 6:23, I Samuel 1:17 and I Samuel 25:6).
Religious Practices

1. Jesus was circumcised (Luke 2:21). Paul taught it wasn’t necessary (Rom 4:11 and Gal 5:2). Muslims believe it is.

2. Jesus didn’t eat pork, in keeping with Old Testament law (Leviticus 11:7 and Deuteronomy 14:Cool. Muslims also believe pork is forbidden. Christians … well, you get the idea.

3. Jesus didn’t give or take usury, in compliance with the Old Testament prohibition (Exodus 22:25). Usury is forbidden in the Old Testament and the Quran, as it was forbidden in the religion of Jesus. The economies of most Christian countries, however, are structured upon usury.

4. Jesus didn’t fornicate, and abstained from extramarital contact with women. Now, this issue extends to the least physical contact with the opposite sex. With the exception of performing religious rituals and helping those in need, Jesus never even touched a woman other than his mother. Strictly practicing Orthodox Jews maintain this practice to this day in observance of Old Testament law. Likewise, practicing Muslims don’t even shake hands between the sexes. Can Christian “hug your neighbor” and “kiss the bride” congregations make the same claim?
Practices of Worship

1. Jesus purified himself with washing prior to prayer, as was the practice of the pious prophets who preceded him (see Exodus 40:31-32 in reference to Moses and Aaron), and as is the practice of Muslims.

2. Jesus prayed in prostration (Matthew 26:39), like the other prophets (see Nehemiah 8:6 with regard to Ezra and the people, Joshua 5:14 for Joshua, Genesis 17:3 and 24:52 for Abraham, Exodus 34:8 and Numbers 20:6 for Moses and Aaron). Who prays like that, Christians or Muslims?

3. Jesus fasted for more than a month at a time (Matthew 4:2 and Luke 4:2), as did the pious before him (Exodus 34:28, I Kings 19:Cool, and as do Muslims in the annual fast of the month of Ramadan.

4. Jesus made pilgrimage for the purpose of worship, as all Orthodox Jews aspire to do. The Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca is well known, and is alluded to in the Bible (see The First and Final Commandment).
Matters of Creed

1. Jesus taught the oneness of God (Mark 12:29-30, Matthew 22:37 and Luke 10:27), as conveyed in the first commandment (Exodus 20:3). Nowhere did he declare the Trinity.

2. Jesus declared himself a man and a prophet of God (see above), and nowhere claimed divinity or divine sonship. Which creed are the above points more consistent with—the Trinitarian formula or the absolute monotheism of Islam?



One wonders what happened between the practices of the first generation of Jesus’ followers and the Christians of modern day. At the same time, we have to respect the fact that Muslims exemplify Jesus’ teachings more than Christians do. Furthermore, we should remember that the Old Testament foretold three prophets to follow. John the Baptist and Jesus Christ were numbers one and two, and Jesus Christ himself predicted the third and last. Hence, both Old and New Testaments speak of a final prophet, and we would be amiss if we didn’t consider that final prophet to be Muhammad, and the final revelation to be that of Islam

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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Ivan on Mon Apr 28, 2014 11:25 pm

toty5 wrote:-
we have to respect the fact that Muslims exemplify Jesus’ teachings more than Christians do….we would be amiss if we didn’t consider that final prophet to be Muhammad, and the final revelation to be that of Islam
I can’t imagine many Christians agreeing with that, and I doubt if many Mormons would accept that Islam was the final revelation. You see, all you religious folk will believe what you want, or are told, to believe, which blinds you to any critical historical analysis.
 
You make a list of claims about Jesus – whether or not he ate pork, or had sex etc – but how could we possibly know such details? The gospels were written long after his death, nobody knows anything about the authors and they almost certainly never met Jesus personally. And maybe the clothing that people wear has something to do with the climate of where they live. For example, I doubt if an Eskimo would last long if he walked around in a loincloth of the sort worn by Gandhi.
 
Scientists say that just thinking about alcohol can make people tipsy
That's a deduction too far – the research didn’t show anything of the sort. We’ve all heard of ‘the placebo effect’, but there is also a likelihood that the quinine in tonic water will have affected some of the participants in the test. Quinine was used to prevent malaria; as it has a bitter taste, British people living in India in the nineteenth century added gin to it to make it taste better. The side effects of quinine can include disturbances of vision, hearing, and balance.
 
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You like quoting scientific research when it supports your religious dogma, but I have no doubt that any evidence which contradicts your beliefs will be summarily dismissed; it’s called cherry-picking. You know that you’re right because you’ve read ‘the truth’ in your Qur’an (just as a fundamentalist Christian has in his or her Bible) and nothing will budge you from that belief.
 
In a similar vein, you'll never admit that it’s definitely detrimental to a person’s health to lash them for doing something which may or may not be harmful to them, depending on the quantity of alcohol consumed. Your religion has prescribed that people who imbibe must be lashed, so as far as you're concerned, that's that. I can only conclude that your concern for people’s well-being is spurious and that you are just using it as a vehicle to peddle your religion, which is out of place on this health board. If you post any more links which have nothing to do with the subject of this or any other thread, they will be deleted.
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Dan Fante on Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:49 am

So, Toty, you're in essence saying that many Muslims adhere to laws laid down in Bronze Age times. Well, on this matter at least, we agree. Where we differ is that you seem to think this is admirable.
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by toty5 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:25 am

You make a list of claims about Jesus – whether or not he ate pork, or had sex etc – but how could we possibly know such details? The gospels were written long after his death, nobody knows anything about the authors and they almost certainly never met Jesus personally. And maybe the clothing that people wear has something to do with the climate of where they live. For example, I doubt if an Eskimo would last long if he walked around in a loincloth of the sort worn by Gandhi.
 
 
First
enough The Qur'an
 
Secondly
the Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings in the Gospel of Bernada
It is clearly stated in the Gospel of Bernada Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon him
and his wives and his companions
 
some People
   converted to Islam
When they read Gospel of Bernada
 

 
Bernada and is one of the disciples of Christian while John and Matthew, Mark and Luke the four Gospels there is no evidence that they are disciples
 
\\\\\\
practical realities
 
from people
 
Scientists say that just thinking about alcohol can make people tipsy
 
 
Someone told me
That the Bible encourages the use of alcohol: PARTLY TRUE ... it is encouraged in some parts of the Bible, and discouraged in others, and Christians differ widely in their attitudes toward alcohol use.
The biggest guide to distort the Bible
Alcohol is the number one drug problem in America.
 
There are more than 12 million alcoholics in the U.S.
 
Three-fourths of all adults drink alcohol, and 6% of them are alcoholics.
 
Americans spend $197 million each day on alcohol.
 
In the United States, a person is killed in an alcohol-related car accident every 30 minutes.
 
A 2000 study found nearly 7 million persons age 12 to 20 were binge drinkers.
 
Three-fourths of all high school seniors report being drunk at least once.
 
Adolescents who begin drinking before the age of 15 are four times more likely to become alcoholics than their counterparts who do not begin drinking until the age of 21.
 
People with a higher education are more likely to drink.
 
Higher income people are more likely to drink.
 
These are also facts. Wait, what am I doing?
 
Someone told me
 
 
alcohol, my grandfather died from cancer caused by drinking, and my youngest brother was killed by a hit and run driver (the majority of hit and run drivers are intoxicated). My best friend from high school spent $150,000 on credit cards on Heroin. I can't think of any people who don't know someone very negatively affected by alcohol and / or drug use.
 
Alcohol and drug use is extremely strongly corrolated with crime, murder, violence, rape, child abuse as well as socially destructive behaviors like sexual promiscuity.
 
They are a plague.
 
Because alcohol acts like other drugs that affect judgment, awareness, the pleasure centers of the brain, addiction, etc.
 
Unfortunately, a large minority (maybe 20-30%?) WILL have significant problems due to alcohol and drug use, and a smaller fraction (5%?) will cause untold grief and heartache for countless others.
 
I stand by my comment: alcohol and drugs are a plague upon society.
 
 
60% of US adults consumed alcohol in the last year. Multiplying that by the fraction I listed of people for whom drinking is a problem, I would be comfortable saying 12-18% of US adults have at least some degree of problem drinking (examples: binge drinking leading to sexual encounters that are later regretted, missing work due to hangovers, money issues due to money spent at bars, marital fights fueled by alcohol, inadvisable conversations at an office party where one too many drinks was tied on, driving under the influence (but not caught), etc.)
 
And of course the 5% or so for whom alcohol is a very serious problem (3% of US adults, since 40% don't drink) then go on to do things like slaughter my brother from behind the wheel, die from liver failure, sexually abuse their stepdaughters, lose their jobs, and otherwise wreak havoc upon the fabric of society.
 
Of course among some subgroups such as Native Americans, those percentages are far, far higher.
Sure. But people do stupid things all on their own without touching a drop all the time. I just don't care if people want to drink. They are adults; they are making a decision to do something.
I was a child and a victim of an adult's drinking
\\\\\\\\
 
 

Islam, raise the value of the humans
 
And kept it from destruction
See
As a result of abuse and drinking
 
wine-
 
 
 
cause loss of concentration, loss of consciousness
Any person can commit murder, robbery and rape
This is terrible
 
Wine was forbidden corrupt
Thank God for the blessing of Islam
 
Narrated By 'Aisha: Allah's Apostle was asked about Al-Bit. He said, "All drinks that intoxicate are unlawful (to drink.)

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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by toty5 on Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:27 am

CCTV released of drunk woman falling under train - YouTube

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Islam, raise the value of the humans

And kept it from destruction
See
As a result of abuse and drinking

wine-



cause loss of concentration, loss of consciousness
Any person can commit murder, robbery and rape
This is terrible

Wine was forbidden corrupt
Thank God for the blessing of Islam

Narrated By 'Aisha: Allah's Apostle was asked about Al-Bit. He said, "All drinks that intoxicate are unlawful (to drink.)

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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Apr 29, 2014 11:56 am

Dietary prescription and proscription is a feature of many religions. In late 15th.C Spain, those Moors who were not driven out were obliged to adopt the Christian religion and among other requirements to eat Pork meat.

To them, it must presumably have been bracketed with alcohol.
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by toty5 on Thu May 08, 2014 8:38 pm

Intoxication risks

Intoxication is the most common cause of alcohol-related problems, leading to injuries and premature deaths. As a result, intoxication accounts for two-thirds of the years of life lost from drinking. Alcohol is responsible for:

30% of road accidents
44% of fire injuries
34% of falls and drownings
16% of child abuse cases
12% of suicides
10% of industrial accidents

As well as deaths, short-term effects of alcohol result in illness and loss of work productivity (e.g. hangovers, drink driving offences). In addition, alcohol contributes to criminal behaviour - in Australia over 70% of prisoners convicted of violent assaults have drunk alcohol before committing the offence and more than 40% of domestic violence incidents involve alcohol.
Long-term effects

Each year approximately 3000 people die in Australia as a result of excessive alcohol consumption and around 65 000 people are hospitalised. Long-term excessive alcohol consumption is associated with:

heart damage
high blood pressure and stroke
liver damage
cancers of the digestive system
other digestive system disorders (e.g. stomach ulcers)
sexual impotence and reduced fertility
increasing risk of breast cancer
sleeping difficulties
brain damage with mood and personality changes
concentration and memory problems

In addition to health problems, alcohol also impacts on relationships, finances, work, and may result in legal problems.
Tolerance and Dependence

A regular drinker may develop tolerance and dependence. Tolerance means that they feel less effect than they used to with the same amount of alcohol. Dependence means that the alcohol becomes central in their life - a lot of time is spent thinking about alcohol, obtaining it, consuming it and recovering from it. The person will find it difficult to stop drinking or to control the amount consumed.
Withdrawal

Someone who is physically dependent on alcohol will experience withdrawal symptoms when they stop drinking or substantially reduce their intake. Symptoms usually commence 6-24 hours after the last drink, last for about 5 days and include:

tremor
nausea
anxiety
depression
sweating
headache
difficulty sleeping (may last several weeks)

Alcohol withdrawal can be very dangerous; people drinking more than 8 standard drinks a day are advised to discuss a decision to stop drinking with a doctor as medical treatment may be required to prevent complications.
The Mother of Every Evil

One day, as he came out from his mosque, the Prophet Muhammad, may God send praises upon him, noticed his cousin and son-in-law, Ali b. Abi Talib, visibly upset. When the concerned Prophet asked Ali what was troubling him, Ali simply pointed to the bloody carcass of his dearly cherished camel - no ordinary camel, but the war-weathered camel that Ali would mount in his valiant defense of the Prophet and Islam on the battlefield. Ali told the Prophet that one of their uncles had been responsible for the unsanctioned slaughter of his animal, and so the Prophet went to ascertain his (i.e. the uncle's) side of the story.

Entering in the presence of his uncle, the Prophet found him drunk with wine. Upon seeing the displeasure in his nephew's face, the uncle knew at once, despite his intoxication, that the Prophet had come to question him about Ali's beast of war. With nothing good to say in his defense, the guilt-ridden, drunken uncle blurted out to his nephew: "You and your father are my slaves!" The Prophet's only response to the blasphemous outburst was to exclaim: "Truly, alcohol is the mother of every evil!"

And so, from the biography of the Prophet Muhammad we learn a weighty lesson as regards the colossal and evil consequences of alcoholic drink. Any one of the alcohol-inspired acts in this short episode from the blessed Prophet's life would suffice the reader as an admonition: whether it be the culling of Ali's camel, the drunken state of an uncle of a Prophet of God - let alone His last and final messenger to mankind - or the wicked insult he spewed out against him and his own


deceased brother, who was no less than the father of the Prophet of God. How much worse then when we consider all these crimes together? Not to mention the many evils indirectly resulting from the uncle's consumption of the alcohol, such as the loss to the Muslim community of one its battle-hardened steeds of war, or the pain, anguish and, perhaps, embarrassment that Muhammad must have felt at this tragic family affair. No doubt, it was precisely because the Prophet recognized that it was the alcohol that gave birth to and nurtured all these foul sins that he denounced it as: "the mother of every evil!"

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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Ivan on Thu May 08, 2014 8:58 pm

Yawn, someone wake me up when he's finished, please. Sleep
 
And yet again I ask - what does it do for a person's health to lash them 70 or 80 times?? headbang
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu May 08, 2014 11:25 pm

Gideon Osborne seemed to be convinced. A great believer in the hair-shirt.
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Dan Fante on Fri May 09, 2014 10:08 am

Sultan of Brunei unveils strict sharia penal code

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Could we have a step-by-step analysis of the health benefits of death by stoning?
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by Ivan on Fri May 09, 2014 10:37 am

"Theory states that Allah's law is cruel and unfair but Allah himself has said that his law is indeed fair", says the Sultan, according to that article. I expect Allah did say he was being fair, what a surprise! Stoning to death for being gay sounds really 'fair', doesn't it? Evil or Very Mad 
 
I don't doubt that Ma Windsor will still invite such vicious scum as the Sultan of Brunei to her various functions. Why? Because he's 'royal' and that's all that counts. As in the past, he will continue to be wined and dined at our expense. Hold on, I'm not so sure about the wine; wouldn't that require him to have a good lashing for the benefit of his health?  Shocked
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri May 09, 2014 5:34 pm

Ask the Dorchester Hotel in Park Lane about that.

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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by stuart torr on Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:03 pm

Is everybody ready for a good old knees up, minus the sultan of brunei obviously. Laughing


Last edited by stuart torr on Fri Sep 05, 2014 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : put dubai instead of brunei)
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Re: Tell me, true or false?

Post by boatlady on Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:26 pm

I'll bring the wine - can you manage the food ( a quiche or two makes a nice start)?
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