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Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

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Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Redflag on Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:23 pm

First topic message reminder :

Maybe Goves wife will provide the job seekers with the money to buy her expensive facial creams, and maybe while she is at it she could take them out and buy them a new outfit to attend there interview with  so they can get a zero hour contract job. lol! lol!
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by astradt1 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:51 pm

It is also interesting that it was No10 that released the information not the police, as has happened when it was a Celeb...And what about the timing.......Headline News Trouble in Ukraine.....Great days to bury bad news......

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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Ivan on Tue Mar 04, 2014 11:28 pm

Two further articles on the Patrick Rock story.
 
Patrick Rock child porn allegations: Downing Street accused of cover-up
 
Extracts from an article by Steven Swinford and Georgia Graham:-
 
Downing Street has been accused of a cover-up after it emerged that one of Cameron's closest aides was apparently told he was suspected of child pornography offences hours before police could arrest him.

Patrick Rock, who served as Mr Cameron's deputy policy chief, resigned shortly after the allegations were put to Downing Street on February 12. He was not arrested by the National Crime Agency, however, until the early hours of the following morning.

It also emerged that Rock, who had been tipped for a Tory peerage, was previously accused of sexual harassment by a colleague.

Labour MP John Mann said: "It gives the impression of a clumsy attempt at a cover-up. If Mr Rock was told of the allegations before his arrest, it is an issue, it would interfere with the justice system."

 
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Patrick Rock arrest: David Cameron defends secrecy
 
Extracts from an article by Rowena Mason and Nicholas Watt:-
 
A Downing Street spokesman defended the decision not to be proactive about revealing the arrest or resignation of Rock before a newspaper asked questions, saying it would not have been appropriate. The spokesman also refused to reveal whether an allegation of inappropriate behaviour had been dealt with by Ed Llewellyn, Cameron's chief of staff and an old friend of Rock.

Labour MP Tom Watson said: “I do think it is not unreasonable for Downing Street to explain why he resigned hours before the police appear to have acted."

The arrest of Rock will have come as a severe shock to Cameron and the Tory establishment. Cameron and Rock worked together as special advisers to Michael Howard in his time as home secretary in the mid 1990s. Rock later worked for Lord Patten alongside Llewellyn, during his time as a European commissioner in Brussels.

Rock helped to draw up the government policy that led to the deal on the use of online filters with the large internet firms. Under the deal, all households connected to the internet will be contacted to be asked if they would like the filters installed.

 
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by boatlady on Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:18 am

I don't know --- all this is making me think of Andrew Mitchell
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:02 am

Power corrupts - sometimes even when it's only an illusory power.
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Redflag on Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:31 pm

boatlady wrote:I don't know --- all this is making me think of Andrew Mitchell

All this makes me think about all ther Tory scandals that were covered up during the Thatcher gov't boatlady, and there where plenty of them like the truth that Mad Cow Desease Could be passed on to humans Gummer I think was the gov't Minister in that scandal Parkinson getting his secretary pregnant and refusing to provide for the child, then Neil Hamilton taking money for asking questions who has now ended up were he belongs in the UKIP party. stirpot 
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by boatlady on Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:35 pm

The point being, that, after Andrew Mitchell's exposure as an elitist arrogant piece of s--t - several Police officers were forced into a humiliating public apology and lost their livelihoods.
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:29 pm

The lesson is that if you intend to take on the Establishment, you need to have all your ducks in a row first.
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by boatlady on Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:56 am

And it may be that some ducks are still hiding - ready to spring forth once we think we've got the b-----ds bang to rights.

I suspect the No10 publicity machine will have already made arrangements for Mr Rock to emerge eventually pure as the driven snow, and then anyone who drew any unwanted conclusions would be firmly back-footed - or am I just paranoid?
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Phil Hornby on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:20 am

It's taking Cameron a hell of a time to tell us why the Rock affair is all Ed Miliband's fault...      scratch
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Dan Fante on Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:22 am

boatlady wrote:The point being, that, after Andrew Mitchell's exposure as an elitist arrogant piece of s--t - several Police officers were forced into a humiliating public apology and lost their livelihoods.
That said, I can't help but feel the copper who chose to make up a story about being a witness to the events has to at least shoulder some of the blame for his own predicament Wink
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Redflag on Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:23 pm

I have to disagree with you on this one Dan Fante, in regards to the policemen the WHOLE truth came out at what they did BUT Andrew Mitchell has not told the public EXACTLY what he said at the gates of No10, and since Mitchell is a LYING Tory SCUMBAG there is no smoke without fire. pokenest
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Dan Fante on Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:48 pm

Redflag wrote:I have to disagree with you on this one Dan Fante, in regards to the policemen the WHOLE truth came out at what they did BUT Andrew Mitchell has not told the public EXACTLY what he said at the gates of No10, and since Mitchell is a LYING Tory SCUMBAG there is no smoke without fire. pokenest
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. I have little doubt Mitchell is an odious you know what and there was obviously some altercation with the police that day (that probably involved him giving it the big 'I am'). However, the actions of the PC (now ex-PC and current convict) who lied about being there are indefensible. He deserved everything he got. And you have to wonder what else he was prepared to lie about during his career in incidents that weren't in the spotlight. He also stitched his colleagues up and gave credence to Mitchell's claims that the whole thing was a pack of lies.
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by boatlady on Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:43 pm

the whole thing was a pack of lies. .

Unlike 'news' delivered daily from the government?

Not saying it was right to lie to back up his mates - but if he deserves prison for that, don't some of our government ministers also deserve prison for some of the lies they have told?
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Dan Fante on Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:56 pm

boatlady wrote:Not saying it was right to lie to back up his mates - but if he deserves prison for that, don't some of our government ministers also deserve prison for some of the lies they have told?
I've already given my view on the officer in question. You'll have to be more specific in respect of a view on a particular incident involving a politician. Not that I'm opposed to seeing a few of them brought to justice, so to speak.
Ignore the party politics for a moment though - do you not think a Policeman (his position does make it more serious in both my view and in the view of the law) lying about being witness to and in attendance of an incident is a serious offence? Especially when it involves a high profile public figure (although that is less important than the overall principle, in my view). It's a terrible indictment on the officer himself and the Police as a whole.
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:09 pm

With the Mitchell affaire, we may have got the right result for the wrong reasons, but the duplicity of the Number 10 Press Office has been unremitting and constant ever since the 2010 Election was overseen by a certain Press Baron.
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by boatlady on Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:15 pm

Dan Fante - I do take your point about the necessity for policemen (and other public servants) to have the appearance as well as the reality of complete probity - and I support the call for police officers, civil servants, teachers, social workers and all the like occupations to be conducted in a truthful and accountable manner - including dismissal for those whose behaviour falls short of the standards expected.

I think the same standards should apply also to those elected representatives that run the country on our behalf and that for example, misreporting of unemployment figures, cheating on expenses claims, failure to declare business interests that can be furthered by policy decisions that one is involved in - all events that have been reported on widely in the past few years - are also offences that should be scrutinised and should merit punishment. I also might want to argue that using abusive language to a police officer who is merely doing his duty ought also to be punished - if we expect high standards of behaviour, surely we should be providing some protections in the shape of a right not to be abused while on duty.

I expect a high standard of behaviour from my public servants, but I know they are human and can sometimes make mistakes and do stupid things. I also realise that sometimes public servants experience high levels of provocation from the public they are serving

In the incident with Mr Mitchell, no-one came out looking very good, but I note, as Redflag comments, that we still don't actually know what was said, and it remains likely that Mr Mitchell may have used language to a police officer that would get you or I arrested. This doesn't in any way excuse the action of an officer telling a lie to support his mate - it may however begin to make it easier to understand how it happened.

I didn't follow the case all that closely at the time; however, as a retired public sector employee myself, I am aware how difficult it can sometimes be to maintain a high standard of behaviour in the face of employers that have little concern for ones welfare and a public who feel justified in heaping blame and abuse on the head of the hapless public servant - up to and including actual physical assault - all this for a wage much less than a back bench MP (£80000-£110000 according to answers.com - and for many that is a part-time wage )
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Phil Hornby on Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:46 am

Boatlady says : "I think the same standards should apply also to those elected representatives that run the country on our behalf and that for example, misreporting of unemployment figures, cheating on expenses claims, failure to declare business interests that can be furthered by policy decisions that one is involved in - all events that have been reported on widely in the past few years - are also offences that should be scrutinised and should merit punishment. "

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes ?

There has never been a time when such close scrutiny of MPs is required.

The current bunch of unashamed shysters who call themselves the government need watching constantly and more closely than Jimmy Savile at a teenagers'  tea party...


Last edited by Phil Hornby on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : quote originally wrongly attributed to Ivan)
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Dan Fante on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:23 am

boatlady wrote:In the incident with Mr Mitchell, no-one came out looking very good, but I note, as Redflag comments, that we still don't actually know what was said, and it remains likely that Mr Mitchell may have used language to a police officer that would get you or I arrested. This doesn't in any way excuse the action of an officer telling a lie to support his mate - it may however begin to make it easier to understand how it happened.
No one knows what was said except the people who were there. It's got sweet FA to do with my point about the copper who went to prison though, seeing as we know he wasn't there and fabricated evidence. How would you feel if you had a run-in with the a police officer, and then he not only lied but got his mate (who wasn't even there) to also lie to back him up? The upshot being you lost your job over it. I'm talking about the principle involved here.
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by boatlady on Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:43 am

And the principle is conceded - however, context counts for something - and the police officer who lied arguably did a lot less harm than for example the DWP with its misreporting of unemployment statistics
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Dan Fante on Fri Mar 07, 2014 10:06 am

boatlady wrote:And the principle is conceded - however, context counts for something - and the police officer who lied arguably did a lot less harm than for example the DWP with its misreporting of unemployment statistics
I don't understand the point you're making about context in relation to this. How do you mean?
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:27 pm

We are surely entitled to expect a high standard of behaviour from public servants and elected parliamentarians in all aspects of their comportment. Mitchell apparently allowed himself to express irritation whilst in conversation with a Police Officer on duty, which is not appropriate to the office he held. It is appropriate that he resigned subsequently.

The clownish behaviour of another Policeman in contributing fictitious "supporting evidence" was clearly inappropriate and the correct action has been taken to remove that person from his job. The significance of that isolated gesture however is that the Coalition's evident determination to have a show-down with "The Police" has unsurprisingly generated dissatisfaction at all levels of the force. That story is far from finished.
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Phil Hornby on Fri Mar 07, 2014 12:39 pm

I am a supporter of the Police in general - they have a very difficult and thankless job.

However, some of the younger officers need to be more selective in who they practice their surliness upon. On two occasions I have had dealings with young constables and have had to ask them if they might express themselves a little more politely, since not all of us are hell-bent on making life difficult for them and they should not commence conversations on the assumption that we are...
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Redflag on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:07 pm

Dan Fante wrote:
I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. I have little doubt Mitchell is an odious you know what and there was obviously some altercation with the police that day (that probably involved him giving it the big 'I am'). However, the actions of the PC (now ex-PC and current convict) who lied about being there are indefensible. He deserved everything he got. And you have to wonder what else he was prepared to lie about during his career in incidents that weren't in the spotlight. He also stitched his colleagues up and gave credence to Mitchell's claims that the whole thing was a pack of lies.
 
All I was saying Dan Fantr is the police are being punished for there lying, but since we have never been told EXACTLY WHAT Mitchell said to them at the gates of No10 how do we know that there was not some truth in what the police have said. cheers
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by boatlady on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:07 pm

I think OW has covered it adequately - I have nothing to add on this topic
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Dan Fante on Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:45 pm

Redflag wrote:All I was saying Dan Fantr is the police are being punished for there lying, but since we have never been told EXACTLY WHAT Mitchell said to them at the gates of No10 how do we know that there was not some truth in what the police have said. cheers 
I suspect there was some truth to what they claimed. My guess is that Mitchell usual talked to them like they were something he'd scraped off his shoe; they, in response to this, go petty about him riding his bike into Downing Street; he had a pop at them. That's probably it. Pure conjecture of course. It's all a far cry from the time when the Tories were the coppers friends and, in response for being Maggie's shock troops, they were afforded ridiculous protection from the consequences of their actions in the Miners' Strikes and at events like Hillsborough.
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Penderyn on Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:45 pm

Isn't it awful - I tend to assume that ANY accusation made against the tories is true.   It the short term I am apparently wrong - in the long term ludicrously naïve and suggestible:  it is always much, MUCH worse!
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Redflag on Fri Mar 07, 2014 7:37 pm

I think your spot on Penderyn, I do not think you are wrong with your assumptions I would not believe a word that came out of any Tories gob, I also believe them to be capable of doing the most dispicable things  without it bothering there conscience or keep them awake headbang
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Ivan on Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:35 pm

"For too long, the benefits of immigration went to employers who wanted an easy supply of cheap labour, or to the wealthy metropolitan elite who wanted cheap tradesmen and services, but not to the ordinary, hard-working people of this country."
 
So said James Brokenshire, the new immigration minister. (You will recall that the last one, Mark Harper, had to resign after it emerged he was employing an illegal immigrant as a cleaner). But the stench of hypocrisy is never far away from the Tories. Cameron’s Nepalese nanny has just been granted British citizenship, and Downing Street is silent over whether he helped her to achieve it.
 
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by astradt1 on Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:44 pm

Cameron’s Nepalese nanny has just been granted British citizenship

Now compare this to Nepalese Gurkha's who have served many years in the British army who still have problems getting British Citizenship......

"We're all in this together"
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:59 pm

But Britain is "among the wealthiest countries and money is no object", astradt. Our own Prime Minister has said so.
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Redflag on Sun Mar 09, 2014 9:31 am

Astradt1 & OW we all have found out what the Tories say and what they do are two different things, just think how many LIES they have told the people of the UK over there time in gov't too many to count.

I would imagine that the flood defences that have been destroyed some will be repaired more so those in South East England were the Tory voters live others will just get sticky taped together, but if it becomes clear to the Tories will be "One Term Firm" they will wreck havoc on the UK. pokenest 
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Ivan on Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:14 am

Tory MP Mark Menzies resigns as ministerial aide following allegations by Brazilian rent boy
 
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Redflag on Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:11 pm

Nothing changes does it Ivan when there is a Tory gov't running the country, it was the same under Thatcher I am sure I do not need to tell any of the posters on here about the sexual scandals that hit the Thatcher gov't between 1979/97 and even after the sexual exploits of the Thatcher gov't ie John Majors affair with Edwina Currie while he was married to Norma.

I wonder how much of a cover-up this story will get when Davy boy is so near a general election, what I would like to know how much mud is going to be slung between the Tories and the Fib-Dems during the run up to the general election I tend to think the L/Ds are in for a shock at just how dirty and underhand the Tories will be driven by the King of Spin Lyton Crosby. stirpot 
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by astradt1 on Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:01 pm

The Parliamentary Standards Commissioner recommends that M Miller should pay back £45,000 in over claimed interest payments. The Parliamentary Committee changed the recommendation to £5,800 and an apology to the House of Parliament, she does not have to apologise to the tax payers who have paid the over claim and also for the investigation in to her case.
 
There have been calls for M Miller to step down but Cameron backs her.....even claiming that in a committee, which has 10 MPs and 3 lay members, that the MPs did not have the casing vote!!!!
 
Given all the above should Kathryn Hudson, the Commissioner for standards, make a stand and resign on the grounds that the committee and the PM have made it impossible for her to do the job she is expected to do?
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Redflag on Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:09 am

I would say astradt1 that if Kathryn Hudson did resign over this it would keep the story on the front pages of the newspapers, along with the story about how the public where conned over the Royal Mail SELL OUT it would bring Davy boy & Lyton Crosby no end of grief  stirpot lol! which would not upset me at all or millions of others.
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:26 am

Morals are for the little people.
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:10 pm

astradt1 wrote: 
There have been calls for M Miller to step down but Cameron backs her.....even claiming that in a committee, which has 10 MPs and 3 lay members, that the MPs did not have the casing vote!!!!
 
Given all the above should Kathryn Hudson, the Commissioner for standards, make a stand and resign on the grounds that the committee and the PM have made it impossible for her to do the job she is expected to do?

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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by Ivan on Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:13 pm


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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by bobby on Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:09 pm

I'll put a pound to a penny Herr Cameron will get her to resign. He will do this for no other reason other than to save his own arse, lets face it, he doesn't really give a monkeys if one of his own nick a few grand off the tax payer, so long as the don't get captured then its all swing around Davy boy. Of course he will promise her a better job in his new cabinet should he win the next General Election
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by bobby on Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:32 pm

Iain Duncan Smith said:



Maria Miller row is at risk of becoming witch-hunt, says Iain Duncan Smith

I wonder just what Iain Dumkopf Schmidt would be saying, if it where one of his hated benefits claimants who tried to nick a tenner a week in extra benefits.
Anyway she is a bleeding witch and should be treated in accordance with her CRIME .






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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:00 pm

The Fleet Street rule-of-thumb is that Ms. Miller is toast if this is still a front-page story NEXT weekend.
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Re: Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 2)

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