2015 general election: “I will vote for……because……”

First topic message reminder :

I thought it might be useful if we had a thread on which members can, if they wish, say who they will be voting for on 7 May and add some details as to why. There are obvious overlaps between some of the parties; for example, Labour and the Liberal Democrats want to bring in a mansion tax and keep us in the EU, while both the Green Party and the SNP want to scrap Trident. If you’re still not sure which party comes closest to representing your views, you can take a short ‘test’ here:-

https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t1029-which-political-party-do-you-side-with

I’ll start the ball rolling. I apologise for re-posting this message, but I do so at the request of one of the original members of this forum:-

“Although Ed Miliband did appear on a picket line with Doncaster care workers, I wish that Labour would be more supportive of legitimate strike action, especially by firemen, NHS staff and teachers who have had their conditions of employment and pension arrangements changed arbitrarily. I think the party is still traumatised by the damage done to it – 18 years out of office - by what were largely myths about the so-called ‘winter of discontent’ of 1978-9.

No, Labour doesn’t do many of the things I’d like it to do, but why should it? I’m just one of the ten million plus people it needs to support it if it is to form the next government. A party which has to appeal to 35-40% of the population must be a compromise, a coalition within itself. It needs to resonate with its core vote, but also to those who thought in 2010 that the Lib Dems were left of centre, and to those who have been tempted more recently into thinking that UKIP might somehow represent the working class.

I will vote Labour because, although it won’t rule for the benefit solely of Ivan White, it will abolish the bedroom tax and bring in a mansion tax, it will repeal the Health and Social Care Act and it will end uncertainty over our membership of the EU. I will vote Labour because I dislike everything this Tory-dominated government of ideologues and liars has done, which has included abusing the human rights of the disabled. I will vote Labour because on 8 May either Ed Miliband will become PM or we will have another five years of ‘Dodgy Dave’ and his asset-stripping corporate cronies, and that’s a no-brainer.”

Redflag wrote:-
In todays news it appears that Nicola Sturgeon has said she would prefer the Tories to win the election, just like Salmond did for Thatcher to bring down the Labour gov't.

As I’ve mentioned previously, Callaghan’s Labour government lost a confidence vote in 1979, then Thatcher won the subsequent general election. Alex Salmond didn’t become an MP until 1987.

I’m disappointed that so many people in the Labour Party should immediately choose to believe a story in a Tory newspaper from an anonymous source. We don’t like it when they tell lies about us, so let’s show some consistency, not jump on a bandwagon because it might (but probably doesn't) suit our agenda. The judicious thing for Labour members to have done when this story broke would have been to keep quiet and see what develops.

As the incumbent, Cameron has the right to squat in Downing Street unless and until someone else has enough support to form a government. In keeping with the characteristic Tory policy of ‘divide and rule’, it is in Cameron’s interests to drive the biggest possible wedge between Labour and any potential partners in a future government. The Lib Dems are unlikely to have enough MPs to be the second party in a coalition, and if they did they’d undoubtedly prefer the Tories again; you only have to listen to Clegg and Ashdown still trying to blame Labour for the global credit crunch to work that out.

This attack on Nicola Sturgeon might well have Lynton Crosby’s fingerprints all over it. The intention of it is to paint her as duplicitous and set the Labour Party against her, when it should be focusing its attack on the Tories. Sadly it looks like a trap into which too many Labour members have walked.

There is still time and scope for Labour to keep the SNP onside, even though it may go against the grain to be on relatively 'friendly' terms ( maybe behind the scenes) with an opponent which could decimate them in Scotland. For the greater good, it must be hoped that Miliband will be cautious and exercise good judgement in this matter. To do otherwise will be yet another opportunity he will have missed amongst a host of too many others. Whoever might have influence with Ed must surely be telling him to tread carefully... mustn't they...?

You put the point over very well Claudine.

Phil, the Tories refuse to say who they would get into bed with, whereas Ed has ruled out the possiblity of jumping in with SNP. However, he cleverly has actually left the door open by hinting he might just lay on top of the mattress with them if need be.

Frankly, I am not convinced that Ed can afford to be fussy about exactly who he sleeps with. If the choice is between spending a considerable time outside in the cold , shorn of all but his underpants, or bunking up with a kilted maiden whose true feelings really lie elsewhere , but who is up for a one-term stand, then he might do well to put on the electric blanket before she changes her limited and temporary affections...

Perhaps the hot water bottle might be of less danger of getting into hot water Phil....

Ms. Sturgeon denies ever having said what is alleged, describing the story in The Telegraph as "dirty tricks". If that is shown to be true, it might suggest that the Tories are prepared to do whatever it takes to avoid defeat.

Things can only get .... worse!

Or the Tories are afraid of not just losing Scotland to Independence but the fact that Wales may follow them in the Independence stakes OW, maybe that is the reason for the Torygraph story.

Chancellor George Osborne announces election pledge to get 2.4 million first-time buyers onto the housing ladder in a 1980s-style home ownership boom.

"Labour and Conservative parties are neck-and-neck in the Polls."

But not for the first time.  

In 1992 Thatcher had given way to John Major as PM, and Norman Lamont was Chancellor.  The Labour Party under Neil Kinnock was expected to win but the surprise result was a fourth consecutive election victory for the Tories, who received a record number of winning votes despite the recession.
"It was The Sun wot won it", according to the infamous headline, but within weeks Lamont's efforts to maintain parity with the Deutschmark resulted in devaluation, and mortgage rates exceeding 15%.  Homeowners in negative equity posted their keys back to the Building Societies, and houses just got cheaper and cheaper until the middle of 1995, while thousands of small and medium businesses failed completely.

As has been said elsewhere, the election of 2015 might just be a good one to lose, if History is a guide.

I will vote Labour because i have a social conscience.

I think that it's going to be a Labour led coalition after the next election because the math doesn't favour the Tories.

No-one will want to be in a coalition with the Tories, barring the 2 or 3 swivel-eyed loons who retain UKIP's defection seats.

Not even the Libdems will risk another 5 years of that.

Reckon on 270-280 seats for the Tories - you need 323 for a majority. Add Labour (280-285), LibDems (25-30) and SNP (30 ish) plus the odd Green or two and you can see where the Tories are going to struggle.

Polling is much more scientific these days and polls never wrong within the margin of error (3 points either way)

I think it's going to be Labour with some SNP support.

Hope you're right in your prediction, Phil - another 5 years of government led by the Tories would be intolerable.

Let's hope, if you're right, that the SNP can forget their devolution dreams at least in the short term to ensure Ed has the muscle he needs to get some serious measures through parliament to undo some of the damage done in the last 5 years

boatlady wrote:Hope you're right in your prediction, Phil - another 5 years of government led by the Tories would be intolerable.

I fully agree with you. What they are planning to do with disability benefits is criminal whilst Osborne has refused to rule out further tax cuts for the rich. This is the worst set of Tories that there has ever been.

The reality is that people seem fed up with the two party system and seem to be more open to coalition governments.

What's clear is that the RW will never have a full strangle hold over politics anymore, they will be prevented from carrying out their worst by lefty coalition partners when they even get a shot at office again

This time around it's going to be a full on lefty alliance in a naturally lefty society!

Yippee!!!

boatlady wrote:Yippee!!!

Perhaps we should bring back the stocks and the public would be able to pelt them with rotten food, since they are so fond of the Victorian times!

I would prefer to bring back Madam Guillotine instead of the stocks Phillip, that way the Tories could never come back which would be what the Tories rightly deserve.

As for Ed having some sort of arrangement with the SNP, I would warn Ed because the SNP are slimely creatures by nature (I live in Scotland) they would try to extract a high price for any arrangement with Ed because when it all boils down the SNP want Independence for Scotland.

Redflag. If Labour is close to an overall majority (not likely, according to current polling), it could survive with some deft footwork, always making sure that one or two minor groups had enough reason to at least abstain on every measure that was introduced. However, if Labour is the largest party after the election but is a long way short of a majority, what’s the alternative to coming to an arrangement with the third largest party, which is likely to be the SNP? There probably won’t be enough Lib Dems to have any clout, and who on the left would want to hook up with them? It would also be the height of cynicism for the Lib Dems to be part of a government which is trying to undo many of the ghastly measures which they enabled the Tories to introduce.

Would you settle for a grand coalition of Tories and Labour? After all, something similar is currently in power in Germany. Such an arrangement here would finish the Labour Party for ever, and I for one would tear up my membership card within 24 hours of any such government being formed.

There’s little point in constantly harking back to what happened in 1979, and maybe the SNP had good reason to vote for a no confidence motion in late March of that year (and let’s not forget that there had to be another general election by October). A majority of Scots had voted for devolution, but a Labour MP named George Cunningham (a Scot who represented an English seat) had succeeded in amending the enabling legislation so that at least 40% of the Scottish electorate, not just a simple majority, had to vote yes. Alec Douglas-Home promised that the Tories would introduce devolution for Scotland if elected, but of course they never did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_devolution_referendum%2C_1979

Scotland had a referendum on independence because a majority voted for the SNP in the Scottish Parliament elections in 2011. Sending maybe 40 SNP MPs to Westminster, out of a total of 650 in the UK, would not trigger another independence vote. The SNP MPs would be there to do their best for Scotland as part of the UK. Of course I want to see a majority Labour government in May, but if it doesn’t happen we have to work with whatever result the voters come up with – it’s called democracy. For Labour to turn its back on another pro-EU, social democratic party which loathes the Tories would be a folly. The result would be Cameron squatting in Downing Street for a few months and then engineering another election which, with all the donations they’ve received from hedge funds, the Tories would be best placed to fight and win.

All good reasons to implore Ed Miliband not to alienate the SNP currently with any silly remarks about the 'dodgy memo' issue. His recent reactions worry me.

I accept that caution is needed to avoid damaging Labour candidates' chances in Scotland, but he needs to box clever if we are to have any prospect of the single most important prize : the demise of Cameron and his evil army

As onlookers, it's all too easy to accept the arithmetic of a minority Labour government supported by SNP but we haven't had the election yet, which puts Our Ed between a rock and a hard place.

Any whiff of a pre-agreed jolly with the Scotnats kills stone dead the prospects for any and all Labour candidates in Scotland, who would appear and feel redundant. They've hardly been in a strong position anyway since the Referendum.

All very logical and understandable, but potential beggars can't be choosers. The question is : which presents the bigger risk - the rock or the hard place...?

Ivan wrote:Scotland had a referendum on independence because a majority voted for the SNP in the Scottish Parliament elections in 2011. Sending maybe 40 SNP MPs to Westminster, out of a total of 650 in the UK, would not trigger another independence vote. The SNP MPs would be there to do their best for Scotland as part of the UK. Of course I want to see a majority Labour government in May, but if it doesn’t happen we have to work with whatever result the voters come up with – it’s called democracy. For Labour to turn its back on another pro-EU, social democratic party which loathes the Tories would be a folly. The result would be Cameron squatting in Downing Street for a few months and then engineering another election which, with all the donations they’ve received from hedge funds, the Tories would be best placed to fight and win.

Sorry Ivan you have the wrong idea about the SNP if the Labour party had to have an arrangement with the SNP, they would extract a high price for the arrangement you seem to forget I live in Scotland and seen all the nastiness that came out of the Independence Referendum from the SNP and there supporters, which IMHO came right from the top of the SNP if you did not support yes you where UNPATRIOTIC or a SCAREMONGER on behalf of the Westminister gov't.

I do hope that England give the Labour party the number of seats they need without any of the smaller parties support, so Ed can give SNP & Plaid Cymru the two finger salute Tories will not win any seats in Scotland or Wales my reckoning says if they take around 100 seats from the Tories which is possible with the way they have treated the people of the UK over the last 5 years.

I do hope that England give the Labour party the number of seats they need without any of the smaller parties support

I suspect that most people on this forum hope that - but what if it doesn't happen? What is Labour supposed to do? Walk away and leave the government of the country in the hands of Cameron and his corrupt and vicious cronies?

Redflag wrote:I would prefer to bring back Madam Guillotine instead of the stocks Phillip, that way the Tories could never come back which would be what the Tories rightly deserve.    

As for Ed having some sort of arrangement with the SNP, I would warn Ed because the SNP are slimely creatures by nature (I live in Scotland) they would try to extract a high price for any arrangement with Ed because when it all boils down the SNP want Independence for Scotland.

Well most Scots that my partner and i've met, and in especially the Costa Del Sol (we have a house there) they have been the most fun people to meet there! (they were on holiday and very drunk though)

Phil Hornby wrote:All good reasons to implore Ed Miliband not to alienate the SNP currently with any silly remarks about the 'dodgy memo' issue. His recent reactions worry me.

I accept that caution is needed to avoid damaging Labour candidates' chances in Scotland, but he needs to box clever if we are to have any prospect of the single most important prize : the demise of Cameron and his evil army

That bothers me as well Phil. Would the Labour party be so stupid as to inflict the Tories on us again by not doing such a deal?

Ivan wrote:

I do hope that England give the Labour party the number of seats they need without any of the smaller parties support

I suspect that most people on this forum hope that - but what if it doesn't happen? What is Labour supposed to do? Walk away and leave the government of the country in the hands of Cameron and his corrupt and vicious cronies?  

I don't know what i would do if Labour walked away from a left wing coalition. I think that the SNP have suggested that they would work with labour on a vote by vote issue. I think that the Scots MP's at Westmister don't even vote now on English only issues.

I hope that the Labour camp are going to be flexible in negociations with the other left wing parties after the next election in hung parliament talks.

I think that i've thought about that question and that i would never vote Labour again if they sacraficed us to another five years of the tories and then to seek solace abroad by opening some kind of guest house business there.

In todays Daily Record sister paper to the Dail Mirror the Headline is. SNP BOSS: mY FURY AT NATS WHO WANT TORIES BACK IN & he has quit the SNP & joined the Labour party Its a two page article will give you all an proper up date after I have read the full story.

It appears Muhammad Shoaib who was the organizer of "Asians for Independence" in Scotland.    He was shocked by senior SNP members in Nicola Sturgeon Glasgow constituency are backing another 5 years David Cameron, Mr Shoaib shared the platform with Salmond & Sturgeon during the Referendum for Independence.     Now this gives some creditablity to that leaked memo about what she said to the French Ambassitor.

I myself have never trusted the SNP, I want you all to think about this if Scots have another 5 years of a Tory gov't with all the severe cuts they intend to bring in if re-elected on the 7th May, IMHO it will make Scots more plyable to say yes to Scotland going for Independence, because when it all boils down that is what the SNP end game.

".... Scotland going for Independence, because when it all boils down that is what the SNP end game."

You're not wrong in saying that, Redflag, but it's apparent that more than one contributor to Cutting Edge is quite calm about a notion of some kind of coalition but never called by that name by which SNP vote alongside Labour.

What happens to the goal of Independence if such an arrangement gives the Scots everything they want anyway?

I was wrong on the postal votes issue @boatlady. Apparently if you have been on the register within the last 10 (or is it 15) years then expats can register to vote in the constituency which they left.

West Fife here I come.

oftenwrong wrote:"....  Scotland going for Independence, because when it all boils down that is what the SNP end game."

You're not wrong in saying that, Redflag, but it's apparent that more than one contributor to Cutting Edge is quite calm about a notion of some kind of coalition but never called by that name by which SNP vote alongside Labour.  

What happens to the goal of Independence if such an arrangement gives the Scots everything they want anyway?

Then that would put the Labour party in trouble with there English support OW giving the SNP everything they want, After last nights Scottish Leaders debate Sturgeon is a slimey customer and would not trust her as far as I could throw her & thats not far.

Part of the reason for me coming down south to help Labour candidates is because it worries me of what the SNP are up too, even in last nights debates when asked the question about Scottish Independence she would not deny that there is a possibility after the 7th May & upto 2016 Scottish general election that she will not ask for another Referendum. After giving there word that it was over for a generation on the question of Scotlands Independence you cannot trust the SNP.

The majority of British voters are against any continuation of this tory madness, and the 'personal pledgers' are likely to be wiped out for their Liberal lying.   Some sort of deal is going to be necessary, and a good thing too.   Time to look hard at this spite against the poor and the sick, and the whole 'austerity' nonsense.   My hope is that the SNP, Plaid Cymru and the Greens will score a high enough number of seats to provide a new left wing which decent Labour MPs can join, and save working people from this sick Murdoch-muck

I sincerely hope that Labour get a big enough win that they cannot be outvoted by the rest of the parties together, so that they can put there policies through without any serious trouble.
I will certainly be voting for them to get rid of cameron and his cronies asap.

There is more hope of me being invited to join the Bolshoi Ballet that a Labour win of that size, Stuart...!

I expect so Phil, but I can live in hope.

stuart torr wrote:I sincerely hope that Labour get a big enough win that they cannot be outvoted by the rest of the parties together, so that they can put there policies through without any serious trouble.
I will certainly be voting for them to get rid of cameron and his cronies asap.

The trouble is that we all hate the tory scumbags, but how, without something powerful to the left of Labour, are we to shift the Tory scumbags IN the Labour Party? From Gaitskell on they have been trying to destroy everything the Party was set up to achieve, and they are winning.

very true Penderyn, but we have got to stop them somehow have we not?

stuart torr wrote:very true Penderyn, but we have got to stop them somehow have we not?

Certainly, but the longer they can say, 'all these mere workers have no other choice than us' the more difficult it is going to be.

Well Penderyn we must make sure that these mere workers vote labour must we not.

stuart torr wrote:Well Penderyn we must make sure that these mere workers vote labour must we not.

Better to have a Party like our old one, in which they are members with a decisive voice?

Definitely Penderyn,to make sure that they are heard.