Has English Premier League football become too predictable and boring?

First topic message reminder :

In 1956-7, Ipswich Town Football Club was promoted from Division 3 (South) to Division 2 (what's now called the Championship). Its success continued, reaching Division 1 (when it really was Division 1 and not, in effect, Division 3), and becoming English champions in its first season in the top flight (1961-2). Admittedly, the team's success owed a lot to the brilliance of Alf Ramsey, who later became the only manager ever to lead England to World Cup victory, but we all know it couldn't happen now. Nobody in their right mind would expect Swansea to become Premier League champions this season, only a very small group of teams can possibly achieve that. Realistically, only about seven teams have any chance of finishing in the top four - isn't it all too predictable, and therefore boring?

It all comes down to money, like so many things in life. Manchester United supporters used to joke that the two best teams in Manchester were Manchester United and Manchester United reserves, but I doubt if they do that now after their recent 6-1 thrashing by Manchester City. So what's changed? Manchester City was taken over by a group of businessmen from Abu Dhabi and received an enormous injection of cash.

Wouldn't you prefer it if Ipswich Town, or maybe Swansea or Wigan, had a chance of being English champions?

Statistics seem to indicate that a Newcastle victory at Old Trafford is as rare as an honest Tory MP.

 Well, not quite that rare , obviously...         

Ha ha ha ha!!!!!! Rare???? a one off fluke.

Man u hit the bar twice, hit the post and should have had what was a stone wall penalty.
Ah well, give the old Geordies a bit of luck. Hope it lasts  

Tbh Mel, I think we thoroughly deserved the win. I don't think it was a fluke at all. We controlled the game for large portions of it. We had more possession and more shots. We rode our luck at times but you need that when you go to Old Trafford. And it wasn't a stonewall penalty because it needs to be deliberate handball (or the arm to be in an 'unnatural' position) for that to be the case. Not that I think the officials saw it anyway. I think if Rooney was available it would have been a different result though. You lot really should be doing better against a wee club from the North East though   

It seems to me that the Old Trafford faithful should simply adhere to the adage : ' win as if you are used to it and lose as if it is nice for a change'...

( Ralph Waldo Emerson - apologies if possibly slightly misquoted?)

Makes a change Phil it's true. Talking of change, it's about time these so called officials changed their specs. For example Dan, where was the goaline official when the hand ball actually stopped the ball gong into the corner of the net?
Was he/she a Geordie or even a Man City supporter?  

"..where was the goaline official when the hand ball actually stopped the ball gong into the corner of the net?".

It's possible that they were just looking at the results for next weekend's matches before they are sent to the referees...    

Mel wrote:Makes a change Phil it's true. Talking of change, it's about time these so called officials changed their specs. For example Dan, where was the goaline official when the hand ball actually stopped the ball gong into the corner of the net?
Was he/she a Geordie or even a Man City supporter?  

Get over it, man.

More predictability in the Premier League today. The referees on the televised matches look significantly overweight and one of them appeared to feel that it was necessary to book a player from each team whenever a foul was committed by one of them.

Watching Spurs v Liverpool as I type and it cannot be long before the man in the middle remembers his instructions and gives the Scousers some helpful decisions...          

So, the Liverpool manager has been asked to explain his comments about the referee and 'assistant referees' after the match against Manchester City.

Not too difficult : I imagine he is suggesting that the officials are either incompetent or cheats. Were one to speak to them , they might well say that Rodgers is looking to blame somebody else because his team lost.

It could be said that everyone would be correct in their judgements. Welcome to the 21st Century Premier League...!        

Has English Premier League football become too predictable and boring? .... and will the FA ever wake up to the harsh reality that billionaire owners of a Club don't necessarily behave in the interests of the Game?

Just been looking at the Premier League table after 21 of the 38 matches this season. There is a fourteen-point gap between Manchester United in 7th place and Hull in 10th place, but only a six-point gap between Hull and Crystal Palace in the 20th and last place. What chance is there of a team outside of those top seven breaking through and finishing in the first four in the foreseeable future? I’d better say that ‘The Toon’ might, in order not to risk offending certain posters, but I wouldn’t put any money on it.

Just as well. Newcastle fans are usually offended when our chances are written off. Due to having faith in our beloved owner's lofty ambitions and being so accustomed to success   

So, you've been at that famous Brown Ale again , haven't you, Dan...?    

Phil Hornby wrote:So, you've been at that famous Brown Ale again , haven't you, Dan...?    

With a healthy portion of sarcasm Actually I haven't been at the Broon aka 'Dog' / loony juice for a while. They don't even make it up here any more, which is a bit of a joke. Although a few local microbreweries have kept the tradition alive with their own (better) versions. The Wylam Brewery do a nice version.

Give me the Moulin Brewery near Pitlochry anytime!

I am not convinced by Pardew at Newcastle. When I see him I think of Cardew the Cad, only I tend to refer to him as Pardew the Pr...yes, well, you get my drift. Such a big club needs a better manager - he seems a bit of a liability with his 'girly' responses to setbacks ( witness last week for a start).

Surely some sort of trophy must beckon soon...?            

My flat overlooks the Newcastle Brewery... no wait a minute... my flat used to overlook the Newcastle Brewery. It now overlooks a building site (marginally better than the derelict site of yore). Apparently you can still call it Newkie Brown and make it in Sheffield. I feel deeply betrayed.

If I crane my neck I can almost see St. James Park and, with the window open, always know when Newcastle score (not often enough).

Did you know there are heretics who keep the bottles in a chiller? ...and they serve it in a pint glass... disgusting.

" Did you know there are heretics who keep the bottles in a chiller? ...and they serve it in a pint glass... disgusting"

Those Sunderland supporters, eh...?           

People from Newcastle serve it chilled, Bella. That's the way it's always served up here. It tastes horrible warm (in my opinion). It should be served in a half-pint schooner though so you're 50% there

And Phil, I'm in a sort of no man's land regarding Pardew. He's a symptom rather than the real problem at the club. I think he's a limited manager but he also has to work within the sort of constraints a top manager probably wouldn't agree to, so in many ways he's as good as we're likely to get under Ashley. I think the owner has done some good things, especially in sorting out a half decent recruitment policy by utilising Graham Carr. This has seen some excellent players arrive at the club and is the reason why, when everyone's fit, we're capable of giving anyone a run for their money. When Plan A works, it's hard to beat. I question Pardew's ability to come up with alternatives to this Plan A and this was particularly obvious last season when we weren't all that far off going down. If you look at the back-up team that Pardew has been allowed to assemble then you can see why I have some sympathy with them. He has John Carver - a bloke who has no top flight coaching experience beyond his current tenure at the club and his time here under Bobby Robson and Steve Stone - someone whose experience basically amounts to looking after some of the youth sides at our academy prior to his being promoted to help out with the first team. And that's all he's got to help him out. When things aren't going well you need a good coaching team to bounce ideas off and to come up with new strategies etc. The problem is that the owner will spend money on players with potential resale value but will not invest in managers and coaches to anything like the same degree because (the latter in particular) don't have that resale value if they move to another club. When you factor in that we don't even try and win the cups and only focus on the league (something the club let slip at a fan's forum at the start of the season) then you can see a glass ceiling has been created at the club. Incidentally, I'm not crying out for the owner to throw megabucks at chasing the league title or even the CL spots but not even properly competing in the cups is another part of the reason why Ashley is strangling the life out of the club. We're made in Sports Direct's image these days.

Dan - it looks like you need to get Bella and Mike Ashley round for a chat.

Firstly Bella has to stop craning his neck and actually get to a game to cheer those boys on and ,secondly , Ashley needs some of your common-sense analysis. You obviously don't go back far enough, but in the fifties Newcastle booked a hotel in Wembley pretty regularly. I guess folk thought that it had become a bit predictable then, too - but sport always goes in cycles.

So get that brew in the cooler, put that tasteful Sports Direct hoodie on and put out a bowl of peanuts...

I think Bella is a Leeds United fan. I must admit, I no longer go to the matches (bar maybe one or two a season). I had a season ticket for about 20 years, and had gone even before that, then packed in when my son was born. He was obviously a big part of the reason for that but the current owner made it easy (and I know the last owners had their faults but at least they had ambition). I know all about the success of the 50s of course. I read a good book by Charlie Crowe about it recently (who played in one winning final, was dropped for another and missed the '55 win through injury) but everyone up here knows about Wor Jackie et al anyway. It's the last domestic trophy we won.

When I was drinking Newkie Brown and supporting Leeds in the late 60s early 70s, you NEVER put the beer in the chiller. It came out of a crate from the cellar at about 5->8C. If you drink it out of the chiller at <4C you might as well drink lager for all the taste it would have.   

The film about Brian Clough and Leeds was probably somewhere near the mark. The players were living in the past and were past it. I had moved back to London and watched with dismay as the wheels came off the Leeds wagon. The board made a mistake. They supported Bremner when they should have supported Clough.

Now I don't really watch much football BUT when my grandson is a little older I will take him to St. James. We are both Geordies after all even if I was born in Caterham. Half my family, as I found out doing some research, come from Newcastle!! The other half from Peterhead...

: As I type Liverpool are losing 0-1 at home to Aston Villa.

So, talking of predictability : home penalty soon, anyone? Just to get the Anfield boys back in the game, you understand?

 How long can the tame referee hold out before making a controversial decision to favour those Scouse  punters...?    

Update  - it's now 0-2. That ref certainly has his work cut out to get them back into this...    . But he'll do it...   

"  But he'll do it...     "

And indeed he did - dubious penalty and all. How's that for predictable...?  

It was a daft challenge by the keeper mind. Looked a pen in real time too.

Bellatori wrote:When I was drinking Newkie Brown and supporting Leeds in the late 60s early 70s, you NEVER put the beer in the chiller. It came out of a crate from the cellar at about 5->8C. If you drink it out of the chiller at <4C you might as well drink lager for all the taste it would have.   

The film about Brian Clough and Leeds was probably somewhere near the mark. The players were living in the past and were past it. I had moved back to London and watched with dismay as the wheels came off the Leeds wagon. The board made a mistake. They supported Bremner when they should have supported Clough.

Now I don't really watch much football BUT when my grandson is a little older I will take him to St. James. We are both Geordies after all even if I was born in Caterham. Half my family, as I found out doing some research, come from Newcastle!! The other half from Peterhead...

You sure you want to impose such a miserable future on the young lad, Bella?
By the way, Provided You Don't Kiss Me by Duncan Hamilton is a great biog of Brian Clough.

What's boring about a "Quenelle Gesture" compared with, say, a goal from the halfway line?

Juan Mata Latest

t(footballerpics)


" I did what? I'm sure it said 'City' on that contract..."

Well, I'm a Chelsea supporter but my hubby is a lifelong Brentford fan so he knows what it's like to support a team with little money and few fans but where they can still manage to get reasonable success - look at the League One table - on a shoestring.

Even though Uwe Rosler got poached!

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

As the days drift by, the football world can see the helpful momentum being built game by game for Liverpool. They have now had more ( most helpful) penalties than any other team in the Premier League this season. At Fulham they were saved ( again ) in the final minute by the latest award and can be virtually assured of one if things are not going their way at Anfield. 

They do , of course, have a very talented side- including the repulsive ace-diver and carnivore Suarez - but they are undoubtedly favoured by outstandingly helpful match officials. My cynicism suggests to me that we shall see a continuation of this in the coming weeks, with some concomitant 'rotten luck' for their close rivals. I can smell it. If I am wrong, I shall stand outside Pease Pottage Conservative Club with a daffodil behind each ear, shouting : " I love the Welsh!"

How many of us long for those halcyon days when nobody knew the result of football matches until they were actually played...            

Corks! Away from the Premier League, of course, but Liverpool appear to have been awarded another penalty to get them back in the FA Cup game at Arsenal!

What an amazing co-incidence, too,  that it is the usual suspect, Luis 'Diver' Suarez,  who has given the ref a chance to assist those Scousers. Will they ever get through a game without such help, one wonders?

Given the draw for the next round , I suppose it is to be expected that a Liverpool v Everton tie is the 'favoured option'. The impact of saturation TV coverage and the betting industry has certainly made itself felt in recent years. Can the 'man in the middle'  find yet another helpful and mysterious decision to even up that score? Ten added minutes anyone?

And they call it  ' sport'...        



Post-match analysis : Bad luck, Howard Webb - not quite able to keep to the script - better fortune next time, eh...?

Has anyone seen or heard from Mel lately?

Mel was on the forum on Monday morning, so he's okay, thanks.   
 
I've adjusted the settings so that all members can see the contents of the memberlist from the bar at the top of every page; I hadn't realised that they couldn't do so already.  

(msn)

So, Nicholas Quennelka has been banned for five matches and fined £80,000.

If we give him the benefit of the doubt, we might say he has been a silly boy. Let's hope he isn't a silly boy again...

What makes me dubious about Anelka's claims of innocence is that his mate, who he reckoned he was supporting, is well-known for his anti-semitism within France. It's inconceivable that even a PL footballer would be thick enough not to know exactly what he was doing when you bear that in mind.

I can't think of a single modern-day footballer who has the sportsmanship and sense of fair play that Tom Finney had. They simply don't make 'em like him anymore.

I know it is a totally different era, but the fun and innocence left the game long ago. Sir Tom must have been disgusted in his later years with the cheating that poisons the game now. But he would have been too polite to say so, of course...

I don't think Bobby Charlton, Stanley Matthews or Billy Wright were ever booked by a referee, and they certainly were never sent off. To be fair, you didn't get booked (or yellow carded) for exuberance or for using up ten seconds to take a goal kick in those days. Furthermore, if you shoved a goalkeeper in the net when he had the ball, you were awarded a goal, as Nat Lofthouse could confirm if it wasn't for the inconvenient fact that he's dead.
 
If you go back to the 1860s, there wasn't even a referee or linesmen in a football match. It was assumed that any infringement of the rules would be accidental and that the two captains would settle all disputes. But then we're talking of an era when Old Etonians won the F.A.Cup, and we all know what honest gentlemen they are....   

Bobby Charlton was booked once  - but it was rescinded.

Can anyone imagine a centre back like Billy Wright avoiding a booking these days?

To be fair, you had to pull a knife to get booked back then.
And Finney must have been the last of those 50s legends who was still with us. He was no Jackie Milburn mind.

Jackie who...?     

We also lost Bert Williams , the old Wolves and England 'keeper recently. My first football hero when I was about 6 years old. My parents bought me a pair of gold and black hooped socks which I wore with pride with my green goalie's jersey. No £60 shirts from Sports Direct for me, I'm afraid!

Football was a great game then. My mother saw Finney in his heyday and regarded him as the best she ever watched - she used to tell me he was as 'fast as the wind'...an unbiased view from a Manchester girl...

You could probably buy the whole shop in Sports Direct for £50. My Dad saw Matthews play towards the end of his career. He basically just stood wide right shifted it half a yard and put a good ball in. Which is what Beckham made a career out of. And I'm not one of those who doesn't / didn't rate Beckham.