Sharia law vs. Christian law

by Charlatan Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:07 am

First topic message reminder :

This is what divides the world. Only in north and south america is this topic not really important, but the rest of the world fights tooth and nail over this. If we could find a happy medium, then there would be nearly global peace! So off we go to find the meeting point...

I find that abrahamic laws are pretty societal. If we take away from them, well we could lose out with divorce or whatever that is, and in the opinion of world peace it is pretty hard to make people worship god. Other than that it must remain, but could we add to it for these countries? I wouldn't be surprised if in London some happy go lucky bomber targets markets or something, so we need to 'get sharia law in' to 'keep it out.' If there are enough sharia law places then there will be no world terror, i figure - well not in these proportions.

What do we know about sharia law? Does it say you must kill? Does it say you must steal? Does it upset society? It does none of these things, so what is wrong with it??? People are fighting in north africa and he middle east, with concern coming from europe and eastern asia. The muslims have spread far and wide, and where they are impoverished they will not sell out on religion to the abrahamic laws only. The best thing to do is get more information on how to give the people this. It happens in iran and saudi arabia at least. Maybe a thing to consider would be why are the poor so willing to fight for what they believe in?

The poor often have little to do with luxury. The more luxury you have the less you fight! You see this in america too, at least, where the republicans are usually the poorer people an are also very religious. Could it be that money breeds sin? Surely not... right?

If we were to look at this from a psychological stand point, we would observe that poor people have less to be happy with, but, have the time to spend with family, strangely. For some reason they have a happy family typically when in the rural areas. Would it be that demolishing all churches would satisfy this need for peace? I hope not, let's get back to the psyche? If the person who has less loves more, then maybe there should be more wealth distribution. This will occupy the minds of all these rural people and then they would be happier, distanced from their loved ones. I understand also that families in the middle class have a lot of love, but time spent with them is less compared to the rural people. What is it about being impoverished that makes people think their lives are not worth anything, and the lives of others are also not worth anything?

Maybe what is needed is a lot of love? Imagine a radio station that is tuned to gospel music all day long? This simple luxury could be what is missing in the lives of the rural people. I know in my country south africa they go madd for gospel in the rural areas, so why not try that in other muslim areas? Al jazeer is still in business, so they must support local stuff. Imagine a muslim radio station that plays muslim worship songs all day long. Think how important the music is to people that go to concerts and watch mtv, buy cds and go to night clubs or trendy restaurants to listen to music? Music must be the way to get to these people and relax and soothe them...

So is it a case of sharia vs. abrahamic laws? Is it that simple, or are the people not exposed to enough of their desire to feel with god at all times? I guarantee you that feeling as if god is with them more they will relax more, dance more, feel better.

But now it is a politcal thing! The west wants to 'domesticate' the east. The problem with that is that there is already a identity that exists out there in the outback, and that it wants to remain there. I am sure with some gospel music there would be great strides forwards.

by polyglide Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:41 pm

For heavens sake Shirina, GET A LIFE.

Jesus said those who believe in him and repent.

Not those who do not believe in him prior to judgement day and realise as no doubt you will. too late.

by Shirina Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:36 pm

Not those who do not believe in him prior to judgement day and realise as no doubt you will. too late.

I see.

So Jesus DOES have limits to his forgiveness.

by snowyflake Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:09 pm

So, how does judgement day work then? We all stand in a queue and are sentenced according to our belief or disbelief in Jesus? So I could be a mass murdering maniac but so long as I believe that jesus was the son of god and came to sacrifice himself as atonement for my sins, I get a free pass to heaven? But the little African girl who has only known Allah all her life, she goes to the lake of fire?

Do I have to represent myself or can I have a lawyer?

by Shirina Tue Apr 23, 2013 8:16 pm

So, how does judgement day work then?

All cults are the same no matter how large or well-funded. You have to both join the cult and then swear allegience to the figurehead in order to reap the rewards. All others are damned. Just because the leader died thousands of years ago makes no difference. It is still the same cult-like mentality that we can see in Heaven's Gate or the Branch Davidians. They all lay claim to the "truth."

by polyglide Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:33 am

God through Jesus does not have a limit to forgiveness.

God is well aware of the situation of all mankind which has been brought about in several ways.

Prior to the time of the birth of Jesus mankind will be judged according to the manner in which they behaved and the law according to God at that time, I do not know what the terms or anything else relative to that time were, nor does it worry me, my concern is after the birth of Jesus.

Jesus said that even sinners of the most vile could be saved if they truly repented for their actions and believed in him as the son of God and that he came and gave his life in order that they may be saved..

Now there is nothing complicated in that.

Judgement for those prior to Jesus offering us redemption will be will be dealt with by God.

by snowyflake Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:40 am

Prior to the time of the birth of Jesus mankind will be judged according to the manner in which they behaved and the law according to God at that time, I do not know what the terms or anything else relative to that time were, nor does it worry me, my concern is after the birth of Jesus.

How do you know this? Where is it written? Please support your assertions with evidence.

Jesus said that even sinners of the most vile could be saved if they truly repented for their actions and believed in him as the son of God and that he came and gave his life in order that they may be saved..

So the serial killer who raped and murdered a little girl while she was praying for God to save her, so long as he repents he can stand next to her in the queue on judgement day. Sweet.

This is, by itself, evidence of the non-existence of God. The cirque de soleil that goes on in the minds of believers is a psychiatrists wet dream. And these people are running around on the loose.

by Shirina Sat Apr 27, 2013 11:55 am

God through Jesus does not have a limit to forgiveness.

You just admitted that he did. Non-belief is unforgivable.

Prior to the time of the birth of Jesus mankind will be judged according to the manner in which they behaved and the law according to God at that time

That's not what the majority of Christians believe. Each individual will be judged according to his belief in God and whether or not he repented. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with how we lived our lives. You also say "at that time." Which time? Are we to be judged based on Bronze Age laws or today's laws? Should we be murdering our own children for rebelliousness like God commanded?

Jesus said that even sinners of the most vile could be saved if they truly repented for their actions and believed in him as the son of God

See? What did I tell you.

How can Jesus's forgiveness be limitless yet still have an "if" in the equation? In other words, Jesus's forgiveness is limitless IF you repent and believe in him. Otherwise, he doesn't forgive you - i.e. a limiit as to what Jesus will forgive. Wow, what an egomaniac!

Like I said, it's all about joining a cult and swearing allegiance to the figurehead, the charismatic leader who dictates your life and how to live it. Christianity is a cult - just an exceptionally large one. It started out as a cult and would have STAYED a cult if not for Constantine and a number of tribal kings who forced people to convert at the point of their swords.

by polyglide Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:08 pm

Shirina, I just cannot understand your sense of reasoning it reminds me of a two year old who only understands half of what is said.

Without Jesus coming and giving his life to save those worthy of him doing so then it would have been the end of the majority of mankind.

Now I do not know how simple the terms I will have to use to make you understand the implications but I will use those applicable to a two year old.

You have been caught pinching an appple, the owner of the apple says if you say sorry then I will not only let you off but I will also give you the apple.

If you do not say you are sorry you will be procecuted.

by snowyflake Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:15 pm

I just cannot understand your sense of reasoning it reminds me of a two year old who only understands half of what is said.

You're the one that believes in an invisible friend that was resurrected from the dead. Do you believe in Santa Claus as well? What kind of logic do you use to discount the existence of Santa Claus but accept the existence of God? What is the difference please?

by Shirina Sat Apr 27, 2013 12:20 pm

Shirina, I just cannot understand your sense of reasoning it reminds me of a two year old who only understands half of what is said.

You certainly have a difficult time refuting the reasoning of a two year-old.

Without Jesus coming and giving his life to save those worthy of him doing so then it would have been the end of the majority of mankind.

Jesus came, Rome fell, and the Western world descended into a period of almost a thousand years of darkness. Do you know anything at all about the centuries between the fall of Rome and the Renaissance? Do you comprehend the grinding poverty, the religious persecution, the wars, the injustice, and the disease? Perhaps if Jesus HADN'T come and people hadn't sunk into paranoid superstition and religious nut-jobbery, we would be a thousand years ahead of where we are now in terms of medicine, scientific knowledge, and moral judgment. Instead, we're still making up for lost time largely thanks to your cult.

You have been caught pinching an appple, the owner of the apple says if you say sorry then I will not only let you off but I will also give you the apple.

LOL! Is this some vague reference to Eve? Seriously? At any rate, you have the historical knowledge of a two year-old, and it gets tiresome dealing with it. All you know seems to come from the Bible, which highlights all that is wrong in this world.

by Tosh Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:58 pm

Which part of " not forgiven " does this screwball not understand ?

If you deny the holy spirit it is an unforgivable sin, end of story, lets get back to the butterflies.

by polyglide Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:06 pm

If you cannot, as you persistantly prove, understand logic, then it is no good going beyond the infantile stage.

The holy spirit has nothing to do with the offer made by Jesus.

It has nothing to do with Eve.

It is a straight forward offer and the terms of which are plain to a anyone with one iota of grey matter and that is perhaps the problem with some, a total lack.

by Tosh Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:42 pm

The holy spirit has nothing to do with the offer made by Jesus.

Mark 3:28-30: "Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven all their sins and all the blasphemies they utter. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin.

I am convinced you are retarded.

by snowyflake Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:13 pm

I am convinced you are retarded.

That is insulting to retarded people, Tosh. Smile

They're much more on the ball than believers in fantasy superheroes.

by Shirina Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:07 pm

It is a straight forward offer and the terms of which are plain to a anyone with one iota of grey matter and that is perhaps the problem with some, a total lack.

Yes, I suppose "worship me or be tortured forever" is a pretty straight forward offer.

by polyglide Wed May 01, 2013 11:14 am

God, so far as I am aware, will deal with people according to their actions taking into account all the relevant circumstances.

The Bible is the word of God as written by man, as far as I am concerned it is a true record with seeming events that we are unable to understand, it is the option of man to seek the truth through the Bible or take passages out ot context.

I am not concerned with the Old Testament, I do not know all the circumstances involved and therefore unable to draw any conclusions but I do believe they portray in truth that which God intended man to know and consider, prior to the birth of Jesus.

by Shirina Wed May 01, 2013 11:26 am

but I do believe they portray in truth that which God intended man to know and consider, prior to the birth of Jesus.

It was meant for the Hebrews and ONLY the Hebrews. God was a tribal god and no better or more real than "the Great Juju on the Mountain" as Dawkins once put it. Judaism is still to this day a tribal religion and Christianity was a messianic cult that built itself on Judaism - just like Islam built itself upon Christianity. The only reason either of the latter two religions ever became the sensation that it is today is because, by chance, several of the barbarian leaders adopted Christianity after the fall of Rome and forced it onto their subjects. Islam was also spread by force as the Muslim world rolled over Asia all the way to Spain.

by Tosh Wed May 01, 2013 1:16 pm

Shirina, you should get a medal for patience and tolerance, polyglide is possibly the dumbest human I have ever met, he is evidence there is little intelligence in the design.

This yo yo has to be a fake, how can he switch on a computer with the reasoning facilities of a hedgehog on crack.

by Mel Wed May 01, 2013 2:15 pm

TOSH. PERSONAL INSULTS ARE NOT TOLERATED ON THIS FORUM. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM DOING SO. THANK YOU.

Your intersting input to this thread is well worth reading most of the time. You do yourself no justice being an intelligent person by insulting other members and promoting backlash with your sometimes antagonistic attitude.

Regards,

Mel

by Tosh Wed May 01, 2013 6:32 pm

TOSH. PERSONAL INSULTS ARE NOT TOLERATED ON THIS FORUM. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM DOING SO. THANK YOU.

I was led to believe personal insults were tolerated as long as they were under 14-15 lines.

I will put your comments in my code of conduct spread sheet.

by snowyflake Fri May 03, 2013 8:29 pm

I was led to believe personal insults were tolerated as long as they were under 14-15 lines

by polyglide Sat May 04, 2013 11:17 am

What I see in the posts are examples of wasted education.

To accept everything that some scientist says and continually use it as a condition of your support for any subject, shows you have no real ideas or thoughts of your own.

Of course take others ideas into consideration, like evolution and then try and follow the idea through.

Evolutuion stops at a very limited extent and is only applicable to that which is already created.

The hundred dollar question is creation and not evolution, without which there could be no evolution.

by snowyflake Sat May 04, 2013 11:33 am

To accept everything that some scientist says and continually use it as a condition of your support for any subject, shows you have no real ideas or thoughts of your own.

Who said anything about accepting everything a scientist says? The scientists presents evidence and you are free to accept or discard the evidence. The belief in God provides no evidence for his existence so a rational thinker would say therefore he does not exist.

We cannot lay claim to existence when there is no evidence for existence otherwise all things exist no matter how far out or crazy.

by Shirina Sat May 04, 2013 12:56 pm

What I see in the posts are examples of wasted education.

I guess we should have studied a little harder in Sunday School. Shocked

To accept everything that some scientist says and continually use it as a condition of your support for any subject, shows you have no real ideas or thoughts of your own.

I deal in facts, polyglide, and my opinions are ALWAYS supported by facts. I'm not given to wild flights of fancy. Sure, blathering on about "wouldn't it be cool if ..." is a lot of fun while standing around the keg at a frat party during the wee hours, but when it comes to debate and real discussion, much less my personal convictions, I don't kick science to the curb just because it interferes with what I think "ought" to be. Sometimes having thoughts of your own is just needlessly reinventing the wheel.

The hundred dollar question is creation and not evolution, without which there could be no evolution.

Start dishing out some empirical evidence for creation and I'll consider it, but the arguments for it so far lack any fizz.

by Tosh Sat May 04, 2013 1:10 pm

The hundred dollar question is creation and not evolution, without which there could be no evolution.

So the purpose of the entire universe is to create single cells ?

Maybe God is a biology student.

by Shirina Sat May 04, 2013 2:54 pm

Maybe God is an amoeba.

by snowyflake Sun May 05, 2013 7:54 am

Maybe God is an amoeba

It loses something in Our Amoeba who art in Heaven don't you think? Smile

by Shirina Sun May 05, 2013 9:45 pm

snowyflake wrote:
Maybe God is an amoeba

It loses something in Our Amoeba who art in Heaven don't you think?

If you think that's bad, just imagine Jesus trying to explain who his father was. jocolor

by ROB Mon May 06, 2013 3:56 pm

Shirina wrote:
… just imagine Jesus trying to explain who his father was.

Greek Bible

“Let not your heart be troubled: you believe in God, believe also in me.”

“In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also. And you know the way where I am going.”

Thomas said unto him, “Lord, we know not where you are going, and how can we know the way?”

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes unto the Father but by me. If you had known me, you would have known my Father also, and from henceforth you know him, and have seen him.”

John 14:1-7

by snowyflake Fri May 10, 2013 7:46 pm

Imaginary beings are the bane of this planet's existence.

by polyglide Wed May 22, 2013 10:57 am

No, the bane of all the planets problems is mankind, there would be very little wrong with the planet if man had done as he was instructed, just as a car will perform if all the instructions are followed.

The fact that man has ingnored God's instruictions has allowed Satan to continue his dirty work.

We can see the way the world is going and it is the fault of man.

by Mel Wed May 22, 2013 12:12 pm

"We can see the way the world is going and it is the fault of man. "

I couldn't agree more with you polyglide.

by Tosh Wed May 22, 2013 4:34 pm

I blame Satan nothing to do with man.

These people need locked up.

by oftenwrong Wed May 22, 2013 5:41 pm

The word "Sharia" is widely thought to mean "(God's) Law" when translated into English, so the thread title begins Law law, which is presumably not too far away from Winston Churchill's reference to "Jaw jaw preferable to War war."

by Shirina Thu May 23, 2013 8:19 pm

polyglide wrote:if man had done as he was instructed, just as a car will perform if all the instructions are followed.

And what, precisely, was Man instructed to do?

polyglide wrote:The fact that man has ingnored God's instruictions has allowed Satan to continue his dirty work.

So it's not really Satan's fault ... are you a Satan worshiper?

polyglide wrote:We can see the way the world is going and it is the fault of man.

Well of course it is since there is no God or Satan.

by polyglide Fri May 24, 2013 11:03 am

Shirina you realy are dafter than I thought, just let us consider your last post.

The Ten Commandments.

Satan corrupts at every opportunity, this has nothing to do with me or anyone else worshiping Satan it is just a fact. The proof that he uses idiots is well represented in some posts. as your last one.

The fault is man's because he has decided to take his ways and not God's.

You are unable to address any point raised other than to come up with a load of nonsense, that has nothing to do with that being considered.

by Shirina Fri May 24, 2013 3:23 pm

Shirina you realy are dafter than I thought, just let us consider your last post.

You think I'm daft because I don't believe in some silly story about some ridiculous battle between good and evil with humans caught in the middle and used as scapegoats by both sides? All of this fuss and bother over mere mortal humans! This little war between God and Satan for our souls is just plain idiotic ... and you believe in it. Then you call ME daft! Now that's funny, I don't care who you are.

The Ten Commandments.

I can think of a hundred things more important to do or not to do than what's in the Ten Commandments.

Satan corrupts at every opportunity, this has nothing to do with me or anyone else worshiping Satan it is just a fact.

No, it is not fact. It is your BELIEF. I think Satan is nonsense.

The fault is man's because he has decided to take his ways and not God's.

So what parts of the Bible should we adhere to and which parts should we ignore?

You are unable to address any point raised other than to come up with a load of nonsense, that has nothing to do with that being considered.

I have answered every question put to me, and I address each of your points, as well, often line by line. It's not my fault if you're too dense to understand the points I'm making.

by ROB Fri May 24, 2013 5:42 pm

Shirina wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t176p330-sharia-law-vs-christian-law#41074
The Ten Commandments.
I can think of a hundred things more important to do or not to do than what's in the Ten Commandments.

You can?

Hebrew Bible

“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you.”

“You shall not murder.”

“You shall not commit adultery.”

“You shall not steal.”

“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.”

“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

Exodus 20:12-17

I would like to see your list of a hundred things more important to do and not do than these.

Shirina wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t176p330-sharia-law-vs-christian-law#41074
So what parts of the Bible should we adhere to…?

We should adhere to these parts of the Hebrew Bible.

Hebrew Bible

“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the Lord your God gives you.”

“You shall not murder.”

“You shall not commit adultery.”

“You shall not steal.”

“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.”

“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor.”

Exodus 20:12-17

by oftenwrong Fri May 24, 2013 7:41 pm

There are many coincidences between the decrees of the Ten Commandments and what sensible people might describe as good-neighbourliness.

The good times prevail while people respect the rights of other people, but evaporate in the face of intolerance and acquisitive aggression.

Our written history is full of examples. Might as well get used to it.

by Tosh Fri May 24, 2013 7:52 pm

I wouldn't honor my parents if they sexually abused me or tried to kill me.

I would steal if my kids were starving or dying of thirst.

I would tell a lie if it saved someone's life.

Is the death penalty not murder ?

Morality like every thing else is relative.

by trevorw2539 Fri May 24, 2013 9:23 pm

The Hebrew Bible is borrowing most of the commandments from earlier civilisations.

There's nothing wrong with that. They are good. We should remember though that they are not unique to the Hebrews as the OT seems to indicate.
The same applies to other things.
The cloud by day and the fire by night. A practise also used by other armies so a large army always knew where the 'head/leading' part of the army was.
Jewish religious ritual and the Ark are reminiscent of Egyptian ways. If Moses was bought up as an Egyptian this is understandable.

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