What future will the Lib Dems have by 2015?

The Lib-Dems will not let Nick Clegg lead them into the next general election because Clegg will definitely be a liability.

The Lib-Dems won't have their leadership challenge too near the general election because this will be seen as a vote grabber.

The Lib-Dems must have their leadership challenge ages before the next general election to be seen as a genuine change of leadership.

So, when do you think their leadership challenge will be ?

Ivanhoe wrote:The Lib-Dems will not let Nick Clegg lead them into the next general election because Clegg will definitely be a liability.

The Lib-Dems won't have their leadership challenge too near the general election because this will be seen as a vote grabber.

The Lib-Dems must have their leadership challenge ages before the next general election to be seen as a genuine change of leadership.

So, when do you think their leadership challenge will be ?

That seems to me to underestimate the total dead-end the Liberals have got themselves into: they have lost most of their support by their public lying, and they look sillier and sillier as the tories continue the class war and the break with Europe. Any election will see them wiped out, so how can they break with the tories? - which means they can hardly put up a new candidate to represent all they have thrown away to get a pretence of power, because who is there left to vote for that person? They're dead, and that's it, I'm afraid.

Quote : " They're dead, and that's it, I'm afraid"

Nonsense!

After all, they have a wealth of other splendid potential leaders such as Chris Huhne and Simon Hughes and...er.....ok, you're right : they're dead...!

Phil Hornby wrote:Quote : " They're dead, and that's it, I'm afraid"

Nonsense!

After all, they have a wealth of other splendid potential leaders such as Chris Huhne and Simon Hughes and...er.....ok, you're right : they're dead...!

Perhaps around the same time that either Buffoon Boris or smoothy-chops Daniel Hannan pluck up the courage to challenge the dynamic Cameron.

oftenwrong wrote:Perhaps around the same time that either Buffoon Boris or smoothy-chops Daniel Hannan pluck up the courage to challenge the dynamic Cameron.

 
Come to think of it, Cameron seems quite OK compared to the buffoon and the crypto-fascist.

Dannylot wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:Perhaps around the same time that either Buffoon Boris or smoothy-chops Daniel Hannan pluck up the courage to challenge the dynamic Cameron.

Come to think of it, Cameron seems quite OK compared to the buffoon and the crypto-fascist.

Hello Dannylot good too see you on here mate. Boris has to be the biggest idiot in the whole Tory party.

Ivanhoe wrote:The Lib-Dems will not let Nick Clegg lead them into the next general election because Clegg will definitely be a liability.

The Lib-Dems won't have their leadership challenge too near the general election because this will be seen as a vote grabber.

The Lib-Dems must have their leadership challenge ages before the next general election to be seen as a genuine change of leadership.

So, when do you think their leadership challenge will be ?

In 2010 he was there hero now he is tainted by association and the Lib/Dems know that if he and his party hold on until 2015 there party will be NO MORE so what your saying is very believable I don't see any in there party too take over there all of the same ilk I can see a couple of them turning Tory they love the feeling of power its that long since there where in power but it will be a lot longer before they get in again I hope Labour does not go into coalition with them it would not be good for them with the voters. I have no idea when they will change him for a better leader is there one in the Lib/Dem party I do not think so.

Redflag wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:The Lib-Dems will not let Nick Clegg lead them into the next general election because Clegg will definitely be a liability.

The Lib-Dems won't have their leadership challenge too near the general election because this will be seen as a vote grabber.

The Lib-Dems must have their leadership challenge ages before the next general election to be seen as a genuine change of leadership.

So, when do you think their leadership challenge will be ?

In 2010 he was there hero now he is tainted by association and the Lib/Dems know that if he and his party hold on until 2015 there party will be NO MORE so what your saying is very believable I don't see any in there party too take over there all of the same ilk I can see a couple of them turning Tory they love the feeling of power its that long since there where in power but it will be a lot longer before they get in again I hope Labour does not go into coalition with them it would not be good for them with the voters. I have no idea when they will change him for a better leader is there one in the Lib/Dem party I do not think so.

There is no point trying to change him as leader until after the next general election, the damage has been done, they won't get another chance at power in this generation. So best leave it till after the election and then start re-building.

For as long as I can remember, up till May 2010, the Liberals/SDP, Liberal Democrats have been the enemy of the Conservative Party. Right up to the 2010 election they still came across as just that, they where in agreement with most of Labour’s policies and totally against Tory Ideology.
The likes of Paddy Back down, Vince Cable, Mr or is it Mrs C (not sure which on of them is doing what)Huhne was all for a deal with Labour, and there where many others. It was Chopper Clegg who on the promise of a great big office, ministerial car and as much cash as he needed for his regiment of advisors/spin Doctors sold the rest of the party down the murky, Tory shark infested river.
What I don’t understand is, I can see what is in it for those with ministerial jobs, but their MP’s and the rank and file actually get little or nowt for standing up for their lying leaders. It is unbelievable to think , they are in agreement with the Tory policies as they go against everything the Liberals have ever stood for.
I am sure that Clegg, and the wanker Danny Alexander along with some others will try to become Tory’s, but will the Tory’s want members with such little scruples, Labour wont have them, so it looks like the oblivion party is all that’s left for them, the rank and file in the main I’m sure will migrate towards Labour.
They have made their beds, so now must lay in them, eventually getting phucked by everyone.
I have a similar thought regarding the Tory Sycophants. At the 2010, they voted for a party that sounded quite reasonable, they where going to do this, do that, not touch the NHS, not decrease the number of Police on the streets, not raise VAT etc, etc but have gone against everything the stood for in their manifesto. That tells me that the fools who voted for them and still support them would do so for no other reason than they are dyed in the wool Tory’s. We hear some saying I support them for this or that, but in the end they are supporting a party that has gone against everything they voted for in May 2010, so my opinion is that these mongrels would vote for them for no other reason than the cuts etc don’t effect them (yet)

A leadership challenge in the Lib-Dems would have all the effect of the Mouse Committee resolving to hang a bell on the cat.

oftenwrong wrote:A leadership challenge in the Lib-Dems would have all the effect of the Mouse Committee resolving to hang a bell on the cat.

It could get very interesting when the Bounderies Commission get started three Lib/Dems will be fighting for the same seat lets wait and see where the gentlemen are in that situation

It realy does astound me when I consider that I used to occasionaly vote Lib Dem in local elections, and as I have stated in other threads, I would sooner eat glass than vote for them now.

In some constituencies like for example Scarborough & Whitby here in North Yorkshire, opponents of the government will not vote Conservative, but they also wont vote Lib Dem either, and in such places the Lib Dems are often seen as the only chance of seeing off the Conservatives, there are very real openings for the Labour Party and they must grasp the golden opportunity.

An unpopular government combined with a predicted annihilation of the Lib Dems must be a dilema for the coalition, they were banking on getting rid of the deficit before 2015 to boost their credibility, however this is now not possible due to the economic policies of the government.

witchfinder wrote:It realy does astound me when I consider that I used to occasionaly vote Lib Dem in local elections, and as I have stated in other threads, I would sooner eat glass than vote for them now.

In some constituencies like for example Scarborough & Whitby here in North Yorkshire, opponents of the government will not vote Conservative, but they also wont vote Lib Dem either, and in such places the Lib Dems are often seen as the only chance of seeing off the Conservatives, there are very real openings for the Labour Party and they must grasp the golden opportunity.

An unpopular government combined with a predicted annihilation of the Lib Dems must be a dilema for the coalition, they were banking on getting rid of the deficit before 2015 to boost their credibility, however this is now not possible due to the economic policies of the government.

This Deficit cutting was whipped up by the media in a frenzy, having the three leaders on stage with a muted audience. The entire proceedings was a media circus, which played right into Cameron's hands.

Well this is a glance back at the 2010 Lib/Dem Manifesto. What future do you believe the Lib/Dem's will have by 2015? I have a feeling it will be very poor indeed. but who know maybe the Tories will go easy on them? or maybe it will not. How can they sell themselves after turning there back on many key Lib/Dem manifesto commitments, or maybe the public will just forgive them? what do you believe will happen to them?


Tax-free earning threshold to rise to £10,000, paid for by a "mansion tax" of 1% on properties worth over £2m applicable to value of property over that figure
Annual savings totalling £15bn, including scrapping ID cards and not renewing the Trident nuclear deterrent
Cap pay rises at £400 for all public sector workers, initially for two years
Banking levy to pay for the state support they have received. Break up banks into retail and investment sections
Base business rates on site values rather than rental values. Small company relief to be automatic
Flights to be taxed per-plane, rather than according to the number of passengers they carry
Set up UK Infrastructure Bank offering stable long-term returns on savings and private finance. Encourage regional stock exchanges to help business access equity. Turn Northern Rock into a building society
Minimum wage set at same level for all workers aged over 16 - except apprentices
Replace council tax with local income tax [England only]
Big difference from Labour/Tories?
The huge shift in income tax policy, which their rivals say cannot be funded

Replace national curriculum with "minimum curriculum entitlement" in state-funded schools and scale back tests at age 11. More freedom for school management [England only]
Pupil premium of £2.5bn given to head teachers, aimed at disadvantaged children, which could allow average primary school to cut class size to 20 pupils [England only]
Early intervention to tackle misbehaviour. Special Educational Needs diagnostic assessments for all five-year-olds [England only]
Schools to get loans to improve energy-efficiency - paid back from energy savings [England only]
Independent Educational Standards Authority to oversee and restore confidence in exams. General Diploma to bring GCSEs, A-Levels and high quality vocational qualifications together [England only]
Reform school league tables and give 14 to 19-year-olds right to go to college, rather than school, if it suits them better [England only]
Phase out university tuition fees within six years. Scrap fees for final-year students immediately. Scrap target of 50% of people going to university [England only]
Introduce shared parental leave from work - extended to 18 months over time - and right for fathers to attend ante-natal appointments. Right for grandparents to request flexible working
Enforce publication of serious case reviews in child protection. [England only] Support "panic" buttons on social networking sites
Big difference from Labour/Tories?
The Lib Dems keep their commitment to phasing out university tuition fees, albeit over a longer period.


Payments to health boards and GPs to be linked more directly to illness prevention measures [England only]
Cut size of the Department of Health by half, abolishing or cutting budgets of quangos, scrapping Strategic Health Authorities and seeking to limit pay of top NHS managers to below level of prime minister [England only]
Integrate health and social care, allow people to stay in homes for longer rather than going into hospital or residential care by limiting bureaucracy [England only]
Scrap Labour's personal care at home and divert cash to give one week's respite for one million carers [England only]
Prioritise dementia research, improve access to counselling for people with mental health problems [England only]
Look into introduction of minimum alcohol pricing [England only], ban below-cost sales and review tax on drink
Local health boards to take over role of primary care trusts [in England] to allow local people more say over service provision
Big difference from Labour/Tories?
The Lib Dems see Labour's National Care Service as unaffordable but neither do they back the Tories' insurance proposals.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8619630.stm

This mornings YouGov poll published in The Times is consistent with other polls released over the past couple of weeks, and if reflected into seats would give a House of Commons like this:

Labour 335 (+77) - Conservative 279 (-27) - Lib Dem 11 (-46) - Others 25 (-4)

Labour majority 20

However, I personaly believe that the opinion polls are been kind to the Lib Dems because the general public are not thinking too much about which box mark with a X if there realy were to be a general election.

Take for example the Thirsk & Malton constituency here in North Yorkshire, one of those constituencies where ( as they say ) "if you put a blue rosette on a chimpanzee, it would be elected".

But in this constituency many Labour voters will vote Lib Dem, because they have always seen the Lib Dems as the only realistic opportunity of causing an upset and giving the Conservatives a fright.

2010 Result ( Thirsk & Malton ) Con 52.9% LibDem 23.3% Lab 13.6%

So in such a constituency in future, are those voters who oppose the Conservatives going to instead vote Lib Dem ? - I think not, the whole landscape regarding political choice has vastly changed to the detrement of the Lib Dems and to the advantage of Labour.

It seems to me that the only political animal that will continue supporting and voting Lib Dem are the total die-hard supporters, the ones who will always support the Lib Dems no matter what.

The Lib Dems will face crushing defeats and humiliation in the next few years, they will head towards virtual obscurity, losing many seats, but I feel they will choose a new leadership, reform and change direction, and if they have any sense they will appologise to the electorate too.

There is of course a Scottish dimension to the future of Lib-Dems.

oftenwrong wrote:There is of course a Scottish dimension to the future of Lib-Dems.

There is and also to the predicted labour majority too, as this would be turned upside down.

keenobserver1 wrote:

Redflag wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:The Lib-Dems will not let Nick Clegg lead them into the next general election because Clegg will definitely be a liability.

The Lib-Dems won't have their leadership challenge too near the general election because this will be seen as a vote grabber.

The Lib-Dems must have their leadership challenge ages before the next general election to be seen as a genuine change of leadership.

So, when do you think their leadership challenge will be ?

In 2010 he was there hero now he is tainted by association and the Lib/Dems know that if he and his party hold on until 2015 there party will be NO MORE so what your saying is very believable I don't see any in there party too take over there all of the same ilk I can see a couple of them turning Tory they love the feeling of power its that long since there where in power but it will be a lot longer before they get in again I hope Labour does not go into coalition with them it would not be good for them with the voters. I have no idea when they will change him for a better leader is there one in the Lib/Dem party I do not think so.

There is no point trying to change him as leader until after the next general election, the damage has been done, they won't get another chance at power in this generation. So best leave it till after the election and then start re-building.

I hope that they have enough scaffolding because they are going to need plenty to re-build the Lib/Dem party by the time 2015 comes around.

Redflag wrote:

keenobserver1 wrote:

Redflag wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:The Lib-Dems will not let Nick Clegg lead them into the next general election because Clegg will definitely be a liability.

The Lib-Dems won't have their leadership challenge too near the general election because this will be seen as a vote grabber.

The Lib-Dems must have their leadership challenge ages before the next general election to be seen as a genuine change of leadership.

So, when do you think their leadership challenge will be ?

In 2010 he was there hero now he is tainted by association and the Lib/Dems know that if he and his party hold on until 2015 there party will be NO MORE so what your saying is very believable I don't see any in there party too take over there all of the same ilk I can see a couple of them turning Tory they love the feeling of power its that long since there where in power but it will be a lot longer before they get in again I hope Labour does not go into coalition with them it would not be good for them with the voters. I have no idea when they will change him for a better leader is there one in the Lib/Dem party I do not think so.

There is no point trying to change him as leader until after the next general election, the damage has been done, they won't get another chance at power in this generation. So best leave it till after the election and then start re-building.

I hope that they have enough scaffolding because they are going to need plenty to re-build the Lib/Dem party by the time 2015 comes around.

I can see Simon Hughes leading the Lib-Dems. He is to the left.

If Simon Hughes ever leads the LibDems it will be a clear signal that they are finished. He is a complete berk and as convincing as a Nun collecting Child Benefit...

I can see Simon Hughes leading the Lib-Dems.

I doubt it, he's run for the leadership before. If he can get back into Parliament (an extremely difficult proposition for a Lib Dem), Dr Evan Harris would be the best bet as he's untainted by the acquiescence of the last two years (trebling student tuition fees, robbing cancer patients and the disabled of their benefits etc).

A possible flaw in choosing Dr.Harris is that in an identity-parade he would be indistinguishable from members of The Chipping Norton Set.

Phil Hornby wrote:If Simon Hughes ever leads the LibDems it will be a clear signal that they are finished. He is a complete berk and as convincing as a Nun collecting Child Benefit...

Funny you should say that Phil Hornby he does seem to fancy Nicks job but it does not matter if they stay in power until 2015 Lib/Dems as a party will be NO MORE.

Ivan wrote:

I can see Simon Hughes leading the Lib-Dems.

I doubt it, he's run for the leadership before. If he can get back into Parliament (an extremely difficult proposition for a Lib Dem), Dr Evan Harris would be the best bet as he's untainted by the acquiescence of the last two years (trebling student tuition fees, robbing cancer patients and the disabled of their benefits etc).

After 2015 the Lib/Dems will be known as the ENABLER Party they enabled this Tory led Gov't to TRIPLE Uni fees and ENABLED the Tories to PRIVATIZE the NHS through the back door I have watched both debates on the BBC Parliament channel yesterday 16/1/2012 I watch the NHS care Bill there was about 4-5 Lib/Dems that voted with Labour or they ABSTAINED one of them used to be a doctor before going into Parliament but that did not stop this Tory led Gov't from getting it past by a majority.

So the next time you or your family need the NHS you will have a longer wait than usual because 49% of the NHS is been turned over to the private sector so there will be queue jumping by the people that have private health care because most of the private operations will be done in our NHS THEATRE'S and NHS surgeons as they have to earn money so that the PLEBS (us) can be treated on the NHS and if a hospitals funds run out TOUGH Landsley will close it and that will be one less hospital and it could be sold to the private sector at the same knock down price Northern Rock was sold to Virgin.

So just remember the next time an Election comes around and think hard which box you place your X in and I know that will not be easy, for me it will be I want a Gov't that is FAIR right across the board no matter who you are or what colour your skin or what ethnic minority you belong to its fair for "EVERYONE".

After the next General Election, there will be nothing for Lib-Dem ex-MPs to do except perhaps to open vegetarian restaurants. Bon appetit!

I'll have the stewed aubergine with a Side Sandal please, waiter...

Interesting YouGov poll out tonight which shows the Lib Dems hve slipped down to 8 points, I suppose it could be a fluke, but YouGov is probably the most accurate polling organisation around.

Phil Hornby wrote:Quote : " They're dead, and that's it, I'm afraid"

Nonsense!

After all, they have a wealth of other splendid potential leaders such as Chris Huhne and Simon Hughes and...er.....ok, you're right : they're dead...!

There as dead as the DODO Phil Hornby, I have mentioned the NHS care Bill on Monday and I said there was a few Lib/Dems that voted with Labour or Abstained I also said that one of them was a doctor before becoming an MP, In todays PMQs he asked a question telling Cameron to stop the NHS care Bill so I think he is ready to Cross the Floor or give up politics all together watch and see what happens, is this the beginning of the end will the Lib/Dems start drifting away bit by bit until Nick Clegg has no MPs left.

witchfinder wrote:Interesting YouGov poll out tonight which shows the Lib Dems hve slipped down to 8 points, I suppose it could be a fluke, but YouGov is probably the most accurate polling organisation around.

8% Witchy. hell that is the lowest I can ever remember for Lib/Dem's. Is that a record low Witchy?

All the more reason for them to hang on in there with their new-found Tory "friends". The alternatives are worse.

Isn't the answer to this obvious - they'll get rid of Clegg, elect a new and earnest leader, repackage and re-sell the brand.

oftenwrong wrote:After the next General Election, there will be nothing for Lib-Dem ex-MPs to do except perhaps to open vegetarian restaurants. Bon appetit!

Just like there attempt at government there vegetarian venture will fail because most of us in the UK enjoy our meat.

oftenwrong wrote:Perhaps around the same time that either Buffoon Boris or smoothy-chops Daniel Hannan pluck up the courage to challenge the dynamic Cameron.

I think Boris will have his eye on Dave's job if he looses his Mayor job and will make it very obvious, also watch Osbourne he could be another contender we all know that Chancellor is not his forte.

Stox:

8% Witchy. hell that is the lowest I can ever remember for Lib/Dem's. Is that a record low Witchy?

Unfortunately it also puts the incompetent Tories on 3% above Labour.

Never mind in real polls Labour took a council seat in St Albans yesteray in a complete turn round from the hapless Lib Dems.

LWS wrote:Stox:

8% Witchy. hell that is the lowest I can ever remember for Lib/Dem's. Is that a record low Witchy?

Unfortunately it also puts the incompetent Tories on 3% above Labour.

Never mind in real polls Labour took a council seat in St Albans yesteray in a complete turn round from the hapless Lib Dems.

That is great news LWS did they increase there vote? If Labour are doing so badly in the polls how come we have won 4 By-Elections in the last year?

Sorry Stox

I have not been watching this thread, since I reported the Lib Dems been on only 8 points in an opinion poll, another poll has come out today and as LWS points out, allthough the Lib Dems are again shown on just 8 points, it also shows that the Conservatives are ahead of Labour.

BUT THE GOOD NEW IS

After feeding this mornings opinion poll results into the swingometer, it would give the Conservatives one more seat than Labour.

YouGov poll - 20.01.12 - The Sun Newspaper

CON 41 LAB 38 LD 8 OTH 13

House of Commons > Con 307 (+1) Lab 306 (+48) LibDem 11 (-46)

What this appears to indicate is that the complete colapse of the Lib Dem vote has gone entirely to Labour.

It also indicates that the Conservatives are further away from an outright victory than they were in May 2010.

Where will the Lib Dems be in 2015? Remembered as the party which colluded with the Tories in the demise of the NHS. So says Lib Dem MP Andrew George:-
http://www.thisisthewestcountry.co.uk/news/cornwall_news/9478170.MP_s_NHS_warning_to_fellow_Lib_Dems/?ref=twtrec

witchfinder wrote:Sorry Stox

I have not been watching this thread, since I reported the Lib Dems been on only 8 points in an opinion poll, another poll has come out today and as LWS points out, allthough the Lib Dems are again shown on just 8 points, it also shows that the Conservatives are ahead of Labour.

BUT THE GOOD NEW IS

After feeding this mornings opinion poll results into the swingometer, it would give the Conservatives one more seat than Labour.

YouGov poll - 20.01.12 - The Sun Newspaper

CON 41 LAB 38 LD 8 OTH 13

House of Commons > Con 307 (+1) Lab 306 (+48) LibDem 11 (-46)

What this appears to indicate is that the complete colapse of the Lib Dem vote has gone entirely to Labour.

It also indicates that the Conservatives are further away from an outright victory than they were in May 2010.

Witchy that is OK. sounds good too me. as we still have 3 dam years to go. we should pass them by then with more seats.

Good Morning Ivan. If this geezer Andrew George feels so strongly for the NHS, all he needs to do to gain real credibility is to cross the floor of the house of Commons, Talk comes cheap, and lets face it, this Coalition which he is part of, do plenty of talking.
Perhaps if he showed the courage, others might follow as they must know that their party is a dead man walking.