What future will the Lib Dems have by 2015?

First topic message reminder :

The Lib-Dems will not let Nick Clegg lead them into the next general election because Clegg will definitely be a liability.

The Lib-Dems won't have their leadership challenge too near the general election because this will be seen as a vote grabber.

The Lib-Dems must have their leadership challenge ages before the next general election to be seen as a genuine change of leadership.

So, when do you think their leadership challenge will be ?

For years, we thought of Lib-Dems as different from the other self-seeking political groups, therefore perhaps a useful repository for a Protest Vote.

Now we've smelt their farts too, and they are no different.

Going by this threads title I think they have finally got it they will be ANNIHILATED in May 2015, and by the headlines in todays Daily Mirror the penny has dropped with the Fib-Dems.   The Hedlines are CLEGG: "WE MUST AXE BEDROOM TAX" this is no joke they have caught the U-Turn bug of the Tories, I seen this on last nights paper review was up sharp could not wait to read there is also a piece by Danny Alexander and Vince Cable.

The next part is pure projecture on my part, did Clegg have a senoir moment or has he been doing his rounds of the doorstep or have his activists finally got his thick scull and here is the synical me has Davy boy told him there will be no more coalitions with the Tories because he has been hinting the Fib-Dems would not mind going into another coalition with the Tories this is after Ed Miliband told him there would be NO Lab/Lib coalition he said Labour was going for a majority gov't and he will need it so that he can REPEAL all the nasty bills Clegg aided & abetted the Tories to get through the HOC.

If my synical me is correct surely Scameron does not think that people will give him another term in power, I tend to think that he thinks there is a coalition in the offing with Ukip there true BED PARTENERS of the Tory party.  

Perhaps Mr Clegg has had a 'Road to Damascus' moment, seen the error of his ways and become a stronger, better person - or maybe he's just a bit desperate and thinks he'll try anything in the hopes of getting a few votes in 2015

  

I think your spot on boatlady DESPERATE is the word that sums up Clegg, Danny Alexander was on channel 4 news tonight you should of seen him trying to wriggle out of the truth od Cleggs "Damascus moment".    Let us see what happens after the HOC summer recess the first oppsition day motion let us see if Clegg will put his speech into action and vote with Labour to get rid of the Bedroom Tax there was a disabled peron on the channel 4 news who had to move due to the nasty vile tax he said he would not hold his breath waiting for this gov't to put the policy into the dustbin.

Between now and next May we may expect to see further separation of the Lib-Dems from the coalition.

That would be nice

I think that some of the Lib/Dem MPs that where getting ready to cross the floor John Pugh & Andrew George may now find the opening they have ben waiting for OW boatlady. So many of the L/D MPs are standing down in 2015 I think they got the message before Clegg or Alexander when there poll rating goes down to 6% it is time to throw in the towel.

This LibDem attempt to distance themselves from the Tories reminds me of somebody leaping from the side of a damaged sea-going vessel in an attempt to paddle their way home in a colander they have pilfered from the galley...

Redflag wrote:I think that some of the Lib/Dem MPs that where getting ready to cross the floor John Pugh & Andrew George may now find the opening they have ben waiting for OW boatlady.   So many of the L/D MPs are standing down in 2015 I think they got the message before Clegg or Alexander when there poll rating goes down to 6% it is time to throw in the towel.

What I am astounded by, all the time, is that six people in a hundred are apparently so out of touch with sense, honour or even taste. Who can still support these scoundrels and their 'personal pledges'? It is either some sort of media scam or proof that we need more closed mental hospitals: care in the community clearly lacks a community!

People vote for constituency MP - if the MP is well known and respected locally (supports local businesses, intervenes successfully on behalf of local grievances) maybe the larger picture gets overlooked.

Penderyn wrote:What I am astounded by, all the time, is that six people in a hundred are apparently so out of touch with sense, honour or even taste.   Who can still support these scoundrels and their 'personal pledges'?   It is either some sort of media scam or proof that we need more closed mental hospitals:  care in the community clearly lacks a community!

I agree Penderyn, as far as I am concerned he has a bloody cheek to now come out and say the Bedroom tax should be revoked there is a couple of other bills he should not of let go through the NHS bill which is destroying the health services in the UK, not forgetting the Welfare bill in the whole should never of went through.   I also think that like the Tories Clegg knew exactly how it would effect the people at the bottom of the earnings ladder but he still marched through the Yes lobby passing the bills into law, Clegg did this for crumbs of power off the Tory table, to those six voters please take your rose tinted specs off or wake up and smell the coffee.   I think the reason for Clegg coming out against the bedroom tax is for one reason only Scameron has told him there will be NO more coalitions with the Tory party.

I will be sitting up all night to watch the general election results come in, I will be all agog when the results for Hallam Sheffield are announced just so I can see Cleggs face when he loses his seat I know its not nice to laugh at peoples downfall but I will on this one.

bobby wrote:Penderyne. The same could be said of the many who voted Tory on the back of their 2010 manifesto, then got a Government who did nothing they promised to do and did everything they said they wouldn't. The party that gained power was absolutely nothing like the one voted for, yet they still have enough support to threaten an outright   Labour win in May 2015.

I bet those people that voted Tory (where Tory is not there normal party to vote for) in May 2010, want to take themselves into a corner and give themselves a good kicking or are they still wearing there rose tinted specs ?? They will have leaned a hard lesson indeed and let us hope will not repeat that mistake in 2015, I do think that the Labour party will get a majority in May 2015 bobby with the Tories and Fib-Dems showing the people of the UK why not to vote for either of them, as I have said before Ed Miliband will surprise the voting public of how far to the left he will take the UK.

boatlady wrote:People vote for constituency MP - if the MP is well known and respected locally (supports local businesses, intervenes successfully on behalf of local grievances) maybe the larger picture gets overlooked.

To a degree. The other parties are used to being held to account, whereas the |Liberals just say whatever is locally acceptable. They get used to this, I suppose. The students they lied to won't forgive them, though, nor will their parents.

bobby wrote:Penderyne. The same could be said of the many who voted Tory on the back of their 2010 manifesto, then got a Government who did nothing they promised to do and did everything they said they wouldn't. The party that gained power was absolutely nothing like the one voted for, yet they still have enough support to threaten an outright   Labour win in May 2015.

Maybe it's my background, but I take it for granted that anyone who votes tory is incurably stupid or incurably criminal.

Penderyn. Then I’m sure you can empathise with these quotes:-

"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." (John Stuart Mill)

“How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? That's the whole art of Tory politics.” (Aneurin Bevan)

I think the quote you quoted from Aneurin Bevan is spot on here is a man that REALLY knew the VILE VICIOUS Tories, from the quote I reckon he also knew they where BLATANT LIARS

Penderyn wrote:The students they lied to won't forgive them, though, nor will their parents.

I know I am probably totally wrong but part of me is hoping that he comes looking for their vote again with more fake promises, the thought of him being told to politely F**K OFF would make my year. Although I wouldn't put it completely out of the realm of possibilities as he is nothing more than a power hungary whore and would sell his sole to the highest bidder to remain in the position he is now.

Ivan wrote:Penderyn. Then I’m sure you can empathise with these quotes:-

"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives." (John Stuart Mill)

“How can wealth persuade poverty to use its political freedom to keep wealth in power? That's the whole art of Tory politics.” (Aneurin Bevan)

Yes, wholly. Ta!

Penderyn wrote:The students they lied to won't forgive them, though, nor will their parents.

Deadly Nightshade wrote:[I know I am probably totally wrong but part of me is hoping that he comes looking for their vote again with more fake promises, the thought of him being told to politely F**K OFF would make my year.  Although I wouldn't put it completely out of the realm of possibilities as he is nothing more than a power hungary whore and would sell his sole to the highest bidder to remain in the position he is now.  

Sh - mustn't tell the truth, you know.   How could tory politics survive it!

Why the Lib Dems should back Labour and completely oppose the bedroom tax

Extracts from an article by Mark Thompson:-

"Following the announcement by the Lib Dems that has been widely interpreted as them wanting to 'axe' the bedroom tax, the party could soon be left in a dilemma. What they are actually calling for are changes which would see only those who were offered a smaller house and then refused it penalised; disabled people would not be expected to move if they needed the extra room. But they will be in real trouble if, as expected, Labour manage to table a vote to scrap the bedroom tax altogether.

In order to maintain collective responsibility, you would expect a party of government to back the agreed and already voted on, established policy. But we've just had days of headlines about how Clegg wants to 'axe' it. It will look ridiculous to most people if after this 'u-turn' the party appears to then 'u-turn' again and vote for the policy they just told us they were against.

If Labour brings forward a motion to scrap the bedroom tax, Clegg should instruct his party to vote for it. It may not be exactly what party policy is, but frankly the Tories will never allow what the Lib Dems want while they're in government anyway. So what Labour would be proposing is close enough.

The issue has become so totemic to so many people that a totemic response is required. Of course there will be consequences from this. If it brings the coalition to a premature end then so be it. At least Clegg will have done this on an issue worth fighting for. The alternative is to yet again be cast as unprincipled, untrustworthy and essentially a liar."

For the whole article:-
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/07/why-lib-dems-should-back-labour-and-completely-oppose-bedroom-tax

IVAN Just after Clegg made the announcement Rachel Reeves came out and said Labour would table this, she also said that the LibDems should go through the Lobby with the Labour so that the Bedroom tax is axed, she even suspects the Lib-Dems are all talk and not action it should be fun and games after the summer recess.

I suppose you know the DUP & the UUP parties will back the Tories to the hilt, would there be enough to put a stop to it with Labour I green SNP & SDLP would help Labour to get this passed so the Bedroom tax is consigned to the dustbin the reason I am asking is because Clegg said if he could not he will put it in their 2015 Manifesto.

An article in Saturday's Independent suggests that the next General Election could be swung either way by the votes of people who formerly voted Lib-Dem but after the Coalition was created, vowed never do that again.

Is Tim Farron staking his claim to take the poisoned chalice from Nick Clegg?   

Below are some extracts from his Beveridge Memorial Lecture at the Social Liberal Forum conference today. From reading them, you would never guess that he is an MP for a party which has been enabling the most vicious and most right-wing government in living memory.

“The electoral hit that Liberal Democrats have taken since 2010 seems to be much less about punishing us for the decisions we have made, and more about punishing us for the company we have kept!

There is no political market for a centre right laissez-faire liberal party amongst the British electorate, or for a party that sets itself up as the permanent see-saw coalition partner. To aim to be either would be to neuter our movement and invite electoral annihilation on the same scale of our friends in the German FDP.

The Thatcherite consensus that Cameron sustains and Miliband has no answer to, has been demonstrated to have failed not just in the crash of 2008 and the poverty, misery and inequality it has inflicted, but also in the absence of so much of the infrastructure we need to plan for the future. Let’s just be honest and acknowledge that we still have pathetic rail links, a massive housing shortage, a massive skills shortage, laughable broadband connectivity, an appalling energy crisis and the ultimate crisis of climate change. The Thatcherite consensus has damaged our society and it has weakened our economy.

You will hear ministers on both sides of the coalition saying that work is the best route out of poverty and they are dead right. Or at least they would be if working for a living gave you enough to actually get you out of poverty. But families with children where at least one parent works have now become the largest group experiencing poverty in the UK. What a disgrace.”

For the full text:-
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/07/tim-farrons-beveridge-memorial-lecture-full-text

IVAN Tim Farron is deluded or maybe he has lost his marbles recently, he seems to forget that him and his party have enabled the Tories to put the people of the UK into poverty.  He is saying the route out of poverty is work did not come out of the gob of him and his MPs that very saying, but nothing about the crap wages or the zero hour contracts that if people refused they got sanctioned by JCP.

Talking about Thatcherite policies he jumped into bed with those that thought Thatcherite policies is the only way, and was very willing partner to carry them out and spouting the Tory Rhetoric of "The Mess Labour Party" left.

If he is throwing his hat in the ring as leader of the Fib-Dems I hope he is just as willing to reign over the ANNIHILATION  of the Fib-Dem Party that is if he keeps his seat in the HOC after May 2015  

Today’s YouGov/Sun poll: Labour 38%, Tories 33%, UKIP 12%, Lib Dems 8%.


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"He who sups with the Devil should have a long spoon" - A warning to those contempating some kind of diabolical pact.



HE SHOULD HAVE A LONG SPOON THAT SUPS WITH THE DEVIL - "If you keep bad company you will need to be on your guard.Sharing a meal with someone usually means you are already on quite good terms with them or that you want to get to know them better. If you agree to partake of the devil's hospitality, you are on dangerous ground and need to beware. The reference to a long spoon is obscure; probably it emphasizes the distance it is necessary to keep from the potent contamination of the devil. The proverb was current in the fourteenth century. Chaucer using it in his Canterbury Tales: 'Therfor bihoveth him a ful long spoon/ That shal ete with a feend,' thus herde I seye.' (The Squire's Tale, c1386). And Shakespeare referred to it in The Tempest where Stephano says of Caliban: 'This is a devil, and no monster; I will leave him; I have no long spoon.'" From the "Dictionary of Proverbs and their Origins" by Linda and Roger Flavell (Barnes & Noble Books, New York, 1993).

Do you think OW that the penny has dropped with the Fib-Dems regarding how badly there doing in the polls & how badly they will do in the 2015 general elections ?

Or are they the the preverbly Ostrich and sticking the heads in the sand, I have heard that after Ed Miliband sent Cleggy off with a flea in his ear regarding a Labour Fib-Dem coalition, it seems now Clegg has went back to Scameron and it seems they have a pact for going back into coalition with the Tories if either of them collect enough seats (Which is very Doubtfull) in the HOC.

I suspect the Lib Dems have to get rid of Clegg

".... the Lib Dems have to get rid of Clegg."

.... who will then meld seamlessly into a sinecure in Brussels. One that he prepared earlier.

I'd rather he had to swim in sh*t for the rest of his days - stiil, I suppose I'll just have to settle for him being out of government

I would like to see Clegg drowning in sh*t boatlady, because that what he deserves after jumping into bed with the Tories and then walking through the yes lobby for all those nasty Tory bills.

"I've got a soft spot for Nick Clegg - face down on Hackney Marshes with my boot on his head." (Jo Brand)

Jo Brand has got the right idea she is a very sensible lady, my thoughts on what should happen to Cleggy is a bit more nastier than what Jo Brand suggests.

Start telling the hard truth, Nick Clegg – there is no free lunch

Extracts from an article by Polly Toynbee:-

Too late, now, for Nick Clegg to promise red lines on “beating up on the poor” after holding the jackets of the bully boys raining down blow after blow. Add here any epithets you like for this fig-leaf party that has given such useful cover to a Tory government more extreme than any since the war. Heap on the abuse for their needless vote on the NHS Act that put everything out to tender. A good reason to vote Lib Dem was hope of electoral reform – but Clegg bungled that one, too: the Tories blew it out of the water.

A Rip Van Winkle asleep since 2010 would listen to the Lib Dems and reckon them a reasonable lot. That’s their tragedy, waiting 80 years for that elusive hung parliament, only to be run down by the train when it finally arrives. Power has dragged them deeper into the bad habits of conventional politics, pretending tiny policies have big effects, boasting of things they haven’t done, ducking responsibility for things they have. Every speaker parrots the Tory line to take: Labour crashed the economy, we are clearing up their mess, each screw of austerity proves our mettle. Of course they don’t really think Labour crashed the global economy, so that rings deafeningly fake.

What are Lib Dems for, shorn of their above-the–fray previous persona? With the other two parties further apart than for 30 years, the centre ground might be their opportunity – but they tied themselves too close to the most right-wing government since the war. Newfound anti-Toryism sounds like deathbed remorse.

For the whole article:-
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/oct/07/nick-clegg-taxes-lib-dems

The Fib-Dems seem to be saying they are against what the Tories nastiness but the same time would not hesitate to go into coalition with them in 2015, TWO FACED SCUMBAGS
They want there L/D voters that deserted them in 2010 to come back and vote L/D in 2015, so they can get back into coalition with the Tories and repeat there farce of 2010 all over again in 2015.

Quite a lot of there Scottish MPs will go to either SNP or Labour and if the SNP do not shut the F**K up about Independence they will more than likely go to Labour or the Greens. I do not think anything Cleggy says today in his speech to conference will make much difference to the voters as he as already ruled it in that he would be willing to go into coalition with the nasty Tories.

Over the past few days on BBC'c Daily Politics show we have seen Lib Dems state they will do what is best for the country but yesterday the stated their price for another term for joining a coalition with the Tories and that price is Proportional Representation of course the only people to benefit from that would be the Lib Dems......So yet again it is a case of 'To hell with the voters we're in it for ourselves'........

After listening to the Lib-Dem conference since it started I have come to the conclusion that they really are Yellow Tories, they are reminding us of their policies which they forced the Tories to allow them to have so they could tell us all without the L/Ds the Tories would have ran amok, but they omitted to mention they went through the yes lobby for the 2012 NHS bill Bedroom tax, tax cuts for the Tories  Millionaire donors or the cuts to welfare and housing benefit.

The picture they are trying to portray is a villian being caught with his hand in the cookie jar by the police then saying it was not me GOV.

Clegg's "keynote speech" to the Party Faithful in Glasgow effectively acknowledged that they had erred in joining the Tory-led coalition, but asking for public understanding.

Not an argument which I find convincing. We have learned to recognise that most politicians are self-serving.