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Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

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Post by Ivan Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:37 pm

First topic message reminder :

Bertrand Russell once said that “the immense majority of intellectually eminent men disbelieve in Christian religion”, and research appears to support that remark. Michael Shermer, in ‘How We Believe: The Search For God In An Age Of Science’, describes a large survey of randomly chosen Americans that he and his colleague Frank Sulloway carried out. Among their many results was the discovery that religiosity is negatively correlated with education (more highly educated people are less likely to be religious). Paul Bell, writing in ‘Mensa Magazine’ in 2002 told us: “Of 43 studies carried out since 1927 on the relationship between religious belief and one’s intelligence and/or educational level, all but four found an inverse connection. That is, the higher one’s intelligence or education level, the less one is likely to be religious or hold ‘beliefs’ of any kind.”

Satoshi Kanazawa, an evolutionary psychologist at the London School of Economics and Political Science, suggests that more intelligent people are more likely to adopt evolutionarily novel preferences and values. He said: "Humans are evolutionarily designed to be paranoid, and they believe in God because they are paranoid. This innate bias toward paranoia served humans well when self-preservation and protection of their families and clans depended on extreme vigilance to all potential dangers. So, more intelligent children are more likely to grow up to go against their natural evolutionary tendency to believe in God, and they become atheists.”

Data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (NLSAH) supports Kanazawa's hypothesis. Young adults who identify themselves as 'not at all religious' have an average IQ of 103 during adolescence, while those who identify themselves as 'very religious' have an average IQ of 97 during adolescence.

Shermer says that religiosity is also negatively correlated with interest in science and strongly with political liberalism. And the NLSAH data suggests that young adults who subjectively identify themselves as 'very liberal' have an average IQ of 106 during adolescence, while those who identify themselves as 'very conservative' have an average IQ of 95 during adolescence.

Does this mean that people with left-wing views are more intelligent than those on the right? I’ve long thought that those with the independence of mind to be unaffected by the constant brainwashing attempts of the right-wing media must have a critical faculty which those who succumb to Tory and Republican propaganda clearly lack. It also appears to be the conclusion of experts at Brock University in Ontario, Canada, who studied research comparing childhood intelligence with political views in adulthood in 15,000 people. They found that intelligence, rather than education, wealth or social status, decides whether people are narrow-minded or bigoted in later life. Their report has been published in a journal called ‘Psychological Science’ and states: “Those with lower cognitive abilities may gravitate towards socially conservative right-wing ideologies that maintain the status quo. That is because it provides a sense of order". The authors found a strong link between low intelligence both as a child and an adult, and right-wing politics.

Sources used, and for further details:-

Richard Dawkins, ‘The God Delusion’, Bantam Press, 2006, p.102-3

http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/48586-intelligent-people-more-likely-to-be-left-wing-atheists

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2095549/Right-wingers-intelligent-left-wingers-says-controversial-study--conservative-politics-lead-people-racist.html

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2012/02/04/labour-supporters-are-cleverer-than-tories-canadian-study-claims-115875-23734718/


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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue May 26, 2015 11:54 am

Polyglide wrote: I have visited poor countries and so called rich contries, in the main the former are riddled with all that is wrong with the world and the latter are attempting to do what is right.

I disagree, and since you offer neither evidence nor context that's all I can offer. Is this relevant to the thread btw? I'm also unclear what your point is here? Perhaps you could for once elucidate.

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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue May 26, 2015 11:58 am

Polyglide wrote: I hold my views on experience, not on a scientists or anyone elses views and I think this is the soundest manner in which one can make a clear and logical observation

Massively egotistical if I may say so. Science is an objective process, unlike your subjective and egotistical claim. Science can call upon the entire collected human knowledge, you can't spell, and have an execrable grasp of the scientific process. That aside you favour blind leaps and assumptions based on superstition, not very compelling.
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Post by Ivan Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:04 pm

General election 2015: how Britain really voted

As in the United States, university graduates are the most likely to vote for progressive parties. If we combine the votes for Labour, the Lib Dems, Greens, SNP and Plaid Cymru into a “left” total and Conservatives and Ukip into a “right” total, then graduates voted left 57%, right 41%. Among people with no qualifications, or GCSE at most, the division was: left 40%, right 58%. The in-betweeners educationally (with A-levels or equivalent as their highest qualification) were also in-betweeners politically: left 51%, right 48%.

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/06/08/general-election-2015-how-britain-really-voted/
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Post by polyglide Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:20 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I have an excuse for typing errors, you have all the latest aids to spell for you, what is your excuse,you have made some realy good ones.
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Post by boatlady Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:33 pm

PG - that is dangerously close to interpersonal abuse - I am not deleting the post in this instance, but do try to think on, please

Also, if you want to criticise another poster's spelling and grammar please try to ensure your own spelling is above reproach (realy)
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Post by polyglide Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:57 pm

boatlady,
I have just read your e.mail, could not agree more and hope
the others feel the same, we may then find at least some reasonable ground on which to debate.
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:29 pm

polyglide wrote:science has been trying to prove evolution for 100,000 years

Just noticed this gem, priceless. I shan't ask you to evidence this claim as that would go from hilarity to farce, but can I just say Wow! Rolling Eyes
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Post by polyglide Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:07 pm

Dr, Shedelon,
No doubt you have never heard of exageration to stress a point, you will learn one day when scientists point things out to you.
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:36 am

What I've learned is that you lie shamelessly,  then lie repeatedly rather than admit you were in error. 

However I'll do you the courtesy this once of accepting your claim was rank stupidity rather than outright duplicity. If that helps save your blushes.
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Post by polyglide Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:34 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Let us consider the actual thing being discussed.

Hawkins is supposed to be one of the most intelligent people around.

He is party to spending millions of pounds on seeking other life forms in the cosmos.

Taking into account the state of our own earth and the fact that millions of people have no water, no food or shelter and children are dying on a minute by minute basis, would not any intelligent person want to see that we are capable of running our own palnet for the benifit of all and doing away with the above problems before seeking anything else?.

What would be the benifit of finding any other life forms?

The most intelligent people are those that attempt to solve our existing problems and not causing potencially more.
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Post by polyglide Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:36 pm

t
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:44 am

Who's Hawkins?
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:50 am

You think a 70 year old virgin in frock living in pomp and ceremony with his own bank, one of the wealthiest in the world. Represents a moral example of christian altruism? 

How about American billionaire televangelist fleecing their credulous flock? 

How about massive churches where there aren't schools or running water?

Science advances human knowledge and that is a worthy use of our resources. Indulging puerile superstitions and dogma which retard that quest for knowledge is a shameful waste. 


As I said earlier your posts are proving Ivan's point each time.
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Post by polyglide Wed Jul 22, 2015 10:34 am

Dr, Shedlon,
What is Ivan's point?.

If little green men werre found what good would it do mankind?

One waste of money or time does not give a good reason for others to do the same.

As far as I am aware no one through religion stops anyone from seeking the truth by any means.

Individuals will always look for methods of selfishness that does not negate the necessity for others to do the best with that which is available to them.

Science has played a major part in the situation the world finds itself in and only a fool would think it is anything other than deplorable at the present time.

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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:30 pm

Ivan's point is what this thread is predicated on.

What green men, wtf are you talking about?

I don't think the advancement of human knowledge is a waste of money. I do absolutely think the wealth religions and the religious milk from their gullible flock is an obscene waste.

Religion, despite your lack of awareness, has tried to retard scientific advance throuout the history of science. Starting with the Inquisition trying Galileo for heresy.

I wasn't just talking about individual avarice,  I quite specifically pointed to the avarice of religions and specifically Christianity.  

Whilst I am as always happy to defer to your expertise on all things foolish,  your claim is just another in a long line of absurdly stupid hyperbole with no basis in fact, no attempt at evidence at all, and all the hallmarks of your usual paranoid deluded antipathy towards the pursuit of objective knowledge which science typifies and champions, but which even know is destroying superstition with that same advance in knowledge and so you both fear and hate it.

As opposed to gullible blinkered certainty in idiotic and pernicious bronze age superstitions.which hasn't advanced collective human knowledge one single iota.


Last edited by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:32 pm

Who is Hawkins? 

You didn't answer polyglide.
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Post by polyglide Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:22 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
Stephen Hawkins, the mad professor.
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:51 am

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                Stephen Hawkins, the mad professor.

Never heard of him. Are you sure you're not thinking of Jim Hawkins from Treasure Island? 

I'm done educating this ingrate, someone else can put him out of his misery from now on. Again though I can't help but feel polyglide's every post answers the thread title in the afirmative.
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Post by polyglide Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:53 am

Dr, Sheldon,
Stephen Hawkin, I wrote as I would say, just as you have missed an f from affirmative I gave the person an extra s.

However, I am sure you have never heard of Steven Hawkin as your ability seems limited to Treasure Island and the Dandy and Beano mentallity.
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:01 am

Then I still have no idea who Stephen Hawkin is. It appears your grasp of verbal English is on a par with your grasp of written English.  

Again, who is Stephen Hawkin,  I've never heard of him. He doesn't even get one hit on Google. 

This is definitely getting funnier.
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Post by polyglide Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:09 am

Dr, Sheldon,
My apologies, I have gone by memory and should not have done.

The name of course is Stephen William Hawking and I am sure you were aware of same, however, that does not excuse my lack of afore thought.
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:24 am

Ah, why mad Professor?  He's perfectly sane and one of the greatest scientists to have ever lived? He generally has no problems getting his work peer reviewed.
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Post by polyglide Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:48 am

Dr, Shedlon,
It is just a saying, although he does change his mind a lot.

He was dead against seeking other life forms in the universe saying he thought they would pose a threat to mankind and now he is involved in a ten year effort to find other forms of life in the universe.
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:45 pm

Then it's a very dishonest expression. The man is a scientific genius. Also how is one change of heart representative of changing his mind a lot? That seems like hyperbole to me. You contradict yourself quite often on here. 

The old testament is irrelevant one day, then you're touting the ten commandments and creationism the next.
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Post by polyglide Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:15 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
The Ten Commandments are not applicable to present day Christians, the only thing they have to do is accept Jesus as a saviour.

I asked, not if they were applicable today, but would the world be a better place if all adhered to them, but as usual.
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:04 pm

As usual I gave an expansive candid response in the other thread. Only for it to be ignored and met with purine ad hominem.
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:07 pm

So your puerile insults toward Professor Hawking were for what purpose? He's a genius who's achievements in the scientific world make his name synonymous with the greatest names in science. What qualifies you to deride him or his work? Or do you just hate anyone who is an outspoken atheist?
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Post by oftenwrong Tue Jul 28, 2015 12:41 pm

As an aside, I laughed out loud reading Adrian Gill's piece in The Sunday Times in which he asked rhetorically, "Do atheists ever pray for a parking-space?"

Sorry to interrupt the flow.
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Post by boatlady Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:25 pm

Doing us all a bit of a favour, OW, interrupting this increasingly incoherent and argumentative flow
Very Happy Basketball
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Post by polyglide Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:43 pm

Dr, Shedlon,
No, I was making a point regarding making a mistake and changing your mind.

Would it be reasonable for a doctor to cure many patients and then decide just to make a mistake and kill one off on purpose?.

Also do not forget that Albert Einstein thought the universe stood still, now if any major decisions had been made on those grounds?.

Of course both have contributed to the knowlege of humanity in general and in specific areas individualy but neither have actually performed anything other than explaining matters that God created.

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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:51 pm

I prayed to a deity I don't believe in to spare the "ten bob bits" at the start of my holiday. Does that count?
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:58 pm

There is nothing in any scientific knowledge that requires either a deity or anything supernatural.  As our knowledge advances so there are demonstrably fewer places for such superstitions to hide. At least for those who choose intelligent rational objective evidence over bronze age superstition.
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:13 pm

Polyglide wrote:
[size=45]No, I was making a point regarding making a mistake and changing your mind[/size]

You've yet to evidence any mistake or show why a scientific genius changing his mind (if he did) is an endictement of his genius,  when your, and religions, constant contradictions are somehow acceptable?
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:17 pm

Polyglide wrote:[size=48]Would it be reasonable for a doctor to cure many patients and then decide just to make a mistake and kill one off on purpose?.[/size]


 No,  though why you'd ask such an obviously stupid question I don't know. Again I feel you're comparing human fallibility with the obvious failings of a purportedly omniscient omnipotent deity.  

[size=46]And again I'm not sure why?[/size]
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:32 pm

Polyglide wrote:
Also do not forget that Albert Einstein thought the universe stood stil
 So what? If his is true he is one fallible human.  His genius is represented in what he discerned and was validated by empirical evidence.  

Compare this to religion's ridiculous adherence to obviously erroneous claims like a geocentric universe, or the absurdity of young earth creationism. 

Science is validated by proper evidence and methodological scrutiny. 


Only superstition clings to beliefs that are entirely unevidenced.
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Post by polyglide Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:41 am

Dr, Sheldon,
Had the exploration of the universe been based on one that was standing still, then it would have been far easier than one which is actualy travelling at a fair speed of knots and the mistake is one of the most significant ever made, as future exposures will prove.

Faith Oh Faithless One.
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:03 pm

That is as stupid as it is erroneous. Another factoid you've parrot ed from one of those nutjob creationist sites no doubt. 

Your obsessive hatred of science is truly risible, as are your entirely fatuous and of course unevidenced lies. 


I'll revere a genius like Einstein over the superstitious BS you spout if that's ok. If it's not then too bad. Why you think you can lie with impunity I do not know. I repeat :


Science is validated by proper evidence and the most rigorous scrutiny. 

Only superstition clings to beliefs that are entirely unevidenced. 
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:09 pm

We'd be living in a flat earthed geocentric universe if your superstition had held power of what is accepted as true, which they tried to do with Inquisition against Galileo.  

Just how much scientific exploration would those moronic pieces of christian dogma have created? 

You live in a complete fantasy. It's truly an astonishing level of willful ignorance and delusion.
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Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:47 pm

Polyglide wrote:Faith Oh Faithless One.

One has only to interview the paranoid delusional  inmates of any lunatic asylum to accurately assess the veracity of faith as a means for determining truth.
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Post by polyglide Fri Jul 31, 2015 2:13 pm

Dr, Shedlon,
You will find an awful lot of scientists in a lunatic asylum having driven themselves mad.
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Post by boatlady Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:08 pm

Are atheists and left-wingers more intelligent?

Good question - why not try to answer it rather than giving us these endless demonstrations?
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