Is there one Jesus for the left and another for the right?

First topic message reminder :

A study at Stanford University in California found that the Jesus of liberal Christians is very different from the one envisaged by conservatives. The researchers asked respondents to imagine what Jesus would have thought about contemporary issues such as taxation, immigration, same-sex marriage and abortion. Christian Republicans imagined a Jesus who was against wealth redistribution, illegal immigrants, abortion and same-sex marriage, while the Jesus of Democrat-voting Christians would have had far more liberal opinions.

Johnjoe McFadden, writing in ‘The Guardian’ says: “Conservatives envisaged a Jesus with views close to their own on morality issues; but they recognised that the man who gave all his possessions to the poor would probably have advocated more progressive taxation policies than those of the Republican Party. Conversely, liberals saw Jesus as having similar views as themselves on fellowship issues but they believed his views on gay rights would be to the right of their own.”

It seems that while the Bible claims that God created man in his own image, this Stanford University study suggests man creates God in his own image.

For the full article:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/mar/04/jesus-liberals-conservatives

Hello bobby boy, didn't expect to see you here.

There are many Jesuses and or Gods.


Only I can judge God. I is you if you choose to be.

Using the term --- I am here means you. This applies to all of us. You are ( I ) to you as I am I to me. Only you then can judge the God construct that you see as you evaluate what you know of God.

Jesus said that at the end of days he would return. He meant in spirit only. Not a physical manifestation. He also said that the time of the end was at hand and that the temple of God was within each of us. The tern spirit represents, the spirit of the law, what is written in the hearts, ---- God in other words, ---- is defined as laws and rules and such as they are the only thing you can follow at all times, ---- and these are set by you and you are in effect ruling yourself in terms of following the God construct you have developed.

Jesus is telling you that you and your heart are the only things of importance in terms of leadership as it is the rules you have accepted as worthy of following. Jesus warned that at end times there would be a number of Jesus’ to choose from and morality is what you will have to choose from.

That is why I think it important to evaluate what Jesus said and determine if it is worthy and moral or not.

Jesus Christ. Madman or something worse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4QXOgVfY9k&feature=player_embedded

Below, Bishop Spong speaks of basically redefining Christianity. Going from a church or religious thinking, to a more spiritual or heart felt thinking. I also urge Christianity to change because it is now too immoral to ignore with today’s mentality. It’s overall policies are immoral in my view. The God of war must die and Jesus declared the full and only God that is required and that the noble lie of politics should be revoked to let all know that the God you likely know was always a myth. This may be a good time for you to contemplate such a move as many Christians haves rejected the O.T. God and only focus on Jesus and loving policies.

Bishop Spong speaks well to this issue.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AfFcAmx-Ro&feature=relmfu

Apotheosis means just recognizing that you are on a journey of being your own God. Some few will have help from God on this through a real apotheosis but only the very few it seems. You cannot get away from that fact so you may as well forget about fantasy, miracles and magic. They were never real and you are the strongest force you will ever know. After all, who but you can make you want to do anything voluntarily? There is no other force that can do this and therefore you are God in the real sense of being master of yourself. If that does not compute with you then remember that A & E became as Gods, God’s own words, and yours is the same birth rite. Throw it away if you wish. You cannot reject the knowledge of good and evil so I cannot fathom why you would throw away the fact that you as well can become as Gods.

The moral of Jesus and his sacrifice is that we should accept being God, and ruling ourselves even against a government if needs be. Become archetypal Moses and face government and declare that it faces one as great as itself. That is what being a free man is all about.

The time of the end is when Jesus becomes your God on earth, ---- again this is you, --- who takes the place of the mythical heavenly God of war. Jesus/you, as the way, the man’s way of judging first, not some absentee God’s unknown standard. Your covenant with yourself is to be the new covenant. Man answering to man and himself. Not to some unknown God.

This clip from J. Haidt shows that we instinctively share God’s morals. In this we are truly Gods and children of God.

http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

I am God because I am the only one who is capable of judging the God I know.
You are a God in your own rite as you are the only one who is capable of judging the God you know.

The Noble Lie is firmly in place and manipulating your thinking. Discard it. In this day and age we do not need it the way we may have in the past.

The Noble Lie.
In politics a noble lie is a myth or untruth, often, but not invariably, of a religious nature, knowingly told by an elite to maintain social harmony or to advance an agenda.

As a Gnostic Christian, this theology/philosophy is quite natural to me and can be for all people.

Try thinking as the God that you are. Stop being a sheep and rise to your true inheritance as a shepherd. That is the message Jesus wants you to recognize.

Regards
DL

P.S.
Listen to Jesus and hear for the first time in your life.
Ps 82:6 I said, "You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.
Hosea 1:10 Ye are the sons of the living God.
Do you think that sons of God are destined to be sheep or shepherds?
Jesus was written to empower us. Not enslave us. Do not waste what he gave.

The NT may be viewed as a post mortem attempt to separate Jesus from Judaism, Christian theology is in my opinion a mish mash of pagan sacrifice, demi-gods and Jewish apocalypticism.
If you study the story of Jesus in a historical and chronological manner one can see Jesus evolving from Jewish man to Roman God.

I am in no doubt his followers believed him to be the messiah, and when he died they tried to find some scriptural explanation. The initial intention was to propose Jesus as a quasi Messiah, anointed by God, spiritually resurrected who ascends into heaven, one who would return within a generation as the son of man to usher in the apocalypse and create a new kingdom on earth. In Judaism, the Messiah and son of man are not spiritual beings but humans anointed by God, they could not accept Jesus as either because one he was dead and two he hadn't fulfilled the criteria.
Jews were particularly strict monotheists, their Savior traditions gaged toward men anointed by God rather than God-like men, the story of Jesus physically returning was basically too God-like.( Immortal).

Essentially this was the position for a few decades after his death, a small group of Jews preaching his return and getting stoned for blasphemy for their efforts. The story was going nowhere in Palestine amongst the general Jewish population and then Paul reinterpreted it, the paganisation process began of taking the religion of Jesus and turning it into the religion about Jesus.

Even Paul as an apocalyptic observant Jew remained ambiguous concerning the nature of the resurrection and the divine nature of Jesus. However Roman pagans( gentiles) had no such reluctance or reservations, for them a demi-god separated them from the Jews and Christianity was born.

I am convinced Jesus would be astounded by the religion bearing his name, it bears little relation to his life or views.

Sad, Tosh, so very, very sad.

There is one very good thing I admire about your posts, no two, one they make me laugh and two, they are usually based on a total lack of understanding of subject matter, which adds greatly to the fact that you are way, way, off the trodden path.

Tosh wrote:The NT may be viewed as a post mortem attempt to separate Jesus from Judaism, Christian theology is in my opinion a mish mash of pagan sacrifice, demi-gods and Jewish apocalypticism.
If you study the story of Jesus in a historical and chronological manner one can see Jesus evolving from Jewish man to Roman God.

I am in no doubt his followers believed him to be the messiah, and when he died they tried to find some scriptural explanation. The initial intention was to propose Jesus as a quasi Messiah, anointed by God, spiritually resurrected who ascends into heaven, one who would return within a generation as the son of man to usher in the apocalypse and create a new kingdom on earth. In Judaism, the Messiah and son of man are not spiritual beings but humans anointed by God, they could not accept Jesus as either because one he was dead and two he hadn't fulfilled the criteria.
Jews were particularly strict monotheists, their Savior traditions gaged toward men anointed by God rather than God-like men, the story of Jesus physically returning was basically too God-like.( Immortal).

Essentially this was the position for a few decades after his death, a small group of Jews preaching his return and getting stoned for blasphemy for their efforts. The story was going nowhere in Palestine amongst the general Jewish population and then Paul reinterpreted it, the paganisation process began of taking the religion of Jesus and turning it into the religion about Jesus.

Even Paul as an apocalyptic observant Jew remained ambiguous concerning the nature of the resurrection and the divine nature of Jesus. However Roman pagans( gentiles) had no such reluctance or reservations, for them a demi-god separated them from the Jews and Christianity was born.

I am convinced Jesus would be astounded by the religion bearing his name, it bears little relation to his life or views.

Jesus would :affraid:


I will add these clips to the mix for your consideration on Rome. They show who put what in Jesus' mouth and how Christianity has been manipulated. The first which is part of the second speaks to my Gnostic Christian label and the second shows my view of religions overall and the Noble Lie that I think we and our governments should rescind. The third clip speaks to the reason that religions were invented in the first place as it shows why social control was required for city states that had to deal with the reality of finite resources. I see these city states as led by a timocratic king who through the religion that he would have created, also realized that there had to be a tyrannical part to his benevolent duty and created a religion to be just that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02ciandvg&feature=BFa&list=PLCBF574D134B912A5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrMtRm3b8MU&feature=autoplay&list=PLCBF574D134B912A5&playnext=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne1wIEGnPWo

I see the King/God as having to have the morals shown in the Haigt clip.

http://blog.ted.com/2008/09/17/the_real_differ/

He would have to create his religion as expressed through his high priest/tyrant who would live by the first commandment of God, place no one above me as the enforcer of his King/God's rules and laws while still obeying his King. The larger Roman system would later assume the same system through the Noble Lie. First through the Flavians and later through Constantine.

http://www.simchajtv.com/movie-secrets-of-christianity-selling-christianity/

Regards
DL

they are usually based on a total lack of understanding of subject matter, which adds greatly to the fact that you are way, way, off the trodden path..

Prove it.

Just re read all you have posted.

polyglide wrote:Just re read all you have posted.

Again here, you do not back your claim. Tsk, tsk.

Regards
DL

Just re read all you have posted..

It is the truth, and you seem to be stumbling about unable to prove me wrong.

Next patient.

Corbyn is an atheist – but his ideas are true to the Bible

From an article by Giles Fraser:-

Readings in the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church are set in advance on a three-year cycle. Last Sunday, up and down the country, the same readings were read out to congregations. First we heard a stinging condemnation of wealth from the book of Amos, then a psalm about God sustaining the widow and the orphan. Then a long passage from Paul about money and, to top it all off, the story from Luke of a rich man burning in hell and a poor man, who lived homeless at his gate, being carried off to heaven by the angels.

Absolutely nothing that has been said by Jeremy Corbyn over the past few months is anything like as hostile to the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few as the Bible. So how, then, can middle England sit through these readings without storming out, but apparently find Corbyn unelectable? Have they not been listening? Can it really be so inconceivable that Jeremy Corbyn’s political philosophy is inimical to the British people when he – atheism notwithstanding – is the only one who even approximates to Christian teaching about wealth? For, unlike Peter Mandelson, the Bible is not intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich.

And if the Bible is to be taken literally, Donald Trump is headed for the fiery furnace. He shouldn’t boast how rich he is. After all, Trump says it’s his favourite book. When the Bible speaks about something like homosexuality, it has to be taken literally. When it speaks about money, it’s all a metaphor.

For the whole article:-
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2016/sep/29/corbyn-is-an-atheist-but-his-ideas-are-true-to-the-bible

Amazingly, some people take away only the things they wanted to believe in the first place.

atn
The Bible advises true Christians to stay out of politics.

The state of the world today, not forgetting that the Bible says Satan was in charge of world affairs since he challenged God,  until such times as Jesus returned to deal with him, is exactly as the Bible predicted it would be.  

So you can actually leave God out of the state of the world if you truly believe the Bible.

Of course people suffer, Satan makes sure of that, my wife suffered as much as anyone through a long bout of cancer prior to her untimely death.

Did she blame God, of course not, she was well aware that Satan uses every trick in the book to hoodwink the gullible.

I was more tempted to feel she had been cheated and told her so, I said I cannot understand why you, her reply was " Why not me"

I have travelled to many places and seen many things that are beyond belief when you consider that mankind has indulged in such behaviour to the detriment of many.

But you can only accept this as a Christian if you understand that it is Satan at work in an attempt to turn true Christians against God.

You cannot believe in God and not Satan.

The Bible teaches that the opportunity is there for everyone to have everlasting life, irrespective of any matter, and a true Christian may not believe or accept many things the Bible says are wrong, but mankind is not to judge others.

I feel there are very few true Christians at the present time, too many have compromised to such an extent that they are no longer true Christians.

I wrote a little dittyy some time ago that was published, it wnet soemthing lke this.

                          As I strolled casually along
                          There was an old man singing a song
                          I cannot remember every word      
                          But certain parts I know I heard                   
                          Oh Lord why not fill the world with love
                          What a wonderful if you only would
                          The answer he got was 'Satan is presently having
                          his way'
                          But all will be revieled on jugdement day.

Regards.

Sorry for spelling errors.

I also missed world out in one line, it just proves old age has it's drawbacks.

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Ivan

polyglide wrote:atn
The Bible advises true Christians to stay out of politics.

The state of the world today, not forgetting that the Bible says Satan was in charge of world affairs since he challenged God,  until such times as Jesus returned to deal with him, is exactly as the Bible predicted it would be.  

So you can actually leave God out of the state of the world if you truly believe the Bible.

Of course people suffer, Satan makes sure of that, my wife suffered as much as anyone through a long bout of cancer prior to her untimely death.

Did she blame God, of course not, she was well aware that Satan uses every trick in the book to hoodwink the gullible.

I was more tempted to feel she had been cheated and told her so, I said I cannot understand why you, her reply was " Why not me"

I have travelled to many places and seen many things that are beyond belief when you consider that mankind has indulged in such behaviour to the detriment of many.

But you can only accept this as a Christian if you understand that it is Satan at work in an attempt to turn true Christians against God.

You cannot believe in God and not Satan.

That's Christian teaching. Satan (HaSatan in the OT) is Jahweh's angel who, at Jahweh's bidding allows the testing of people's faith in Jahweh. This he did with Job, and this he did with Jesus. Both passed the test. Christianity has turned him into God's enemy. Man's biggest enemy is man himself - not some mysterious evil being.

I fully agree, mankind is mankind's biggest enemy.

God allowed Satan to test Job to the limit to prove that he could not make him a none believer in God's power, rather than his own, and Job passed the test.

There are all kinds of different religions, the Bible tells you in several places to refrain from indulging in them.

Jesus came to earth that mankind could be saved, mankind having become much as he has today.

Just look at the list given in the Bible of the times that would be near the time of the end of the present system.

I am well aware that some have been present in the actions of mankind for some time, however, not all at once, nor in the abundance that is preverlant today.

I cannot believe that anyone with commonsense could believe that matters can go on in the present situation the world finds itself in without ending in disaster of one kind or another, if they are left to their own devices.

Regards.

As I strolled casually along
I heard an old man singing a song
He had obviously seen better days
But was still full of praise
I cannot remember every word
But certain things I know I heard
Oh Lord why not fill the world with love
What a wonderful world if you only could
Strolling further along the road
I remembered what I had always been told
Satan is presently having his way
But all will be revieled on JUDGEMENT DAY.

Just thought I ought to put matters right.

There is only one Jesus, to answer the question, and that is the son of God.

Everyone has a left and right side.

Regards.

Jesus was a Jewish Preacher - nothing more.

The Bible advises true Christians to stay out of politics.

Does it? Politics is the process of organising control and making decisions that apply to all members of a state. In other words, politics can be found in almost everything. Clearly there’s nothing in the Bible to tell people to get involved in party politics, but Paul says in Romans 13:1 that “everyone must obey the state authorities, because no authority exists without God’s permission, and the existing authorities have been put there by God”.

The story of the vineyard workers in Matthew 20:1-16 has political implications. Should someone who has only worked for a couple of hours be paid as much as someone who worked for a whole day? You could argue that that’s a right-wing argument for ‘market forces’ – if the vineyard owner was getting desperate for more workers later in the day, then he needed to pay them the same for doing less work. Or was it an example of people having similar needs? Those who were only required to work for a short time still wanted money to feed and clothe and their families etc, so could this be seen as a left-wing argument for “each according to their need”?

When Jesus said that the second most important commandment was to “love your neighbour as you love yourself” (Mark 12:31), wasn’t he making a radical political statement in a world which still accepted slavery?

The problem with this kind of discussion, and why I very rarely indulge, is that you can prove, or disprove anything by reference to Biblical authority - that's why I find organised religion such a worry.

People waste time arguing about what their imaginary friend might have meant, when they could be learning to care for the planet and for each other in an ethical and sustainable way

boatlady wrote:People waste time arguing about what their imaginary friend might have meant

Jesus would have loved a ride in a boat pictured in your avatar. Storms on Galilee were funny in a fishing boat.

I don't think Jesus was imaginary. I think he was a Jewish Preacher, nothing more. If you take away the Christian content of the Gospels things make sense. His preaching was Jewish in nature, belief and doctrine. Many of today's rituals and doctrines are adaptations of Jewish religious ways.

You're quite right, Trevor, in my view.
Jesus had sensible things to say about how we should act in the world - as did and do many other preachers and social reformers - but the business of life is living and as a race we are making a terrible fist of it - I think we should be concentrating on how to do it better today, rather than agonising over what someone may have meant 2000 or more years ago

Anyone who feels mankind has either the ability or the intention to make matters better for mankind as a whole, taking into account the present situation the world finds its self in, is deluded.

I believe in God because of the experiences I have had in life as a whole, and how I have been helped when it has been needed the most.

I am well aware of all the contrary matters that can be put forward, and I could put better ones than any I have seen posted, however, you need faith and the wealth of all creation to become convinced that there must be a creator and the Bible and God is the only alternative ( so far as I am concerned) that answers all the questions that I have after considering the facts available.

Alternatively, I would have to believe that creation was just chance and a sequence of accidents with no afore thought necessary.

Regards.

Ivan,

I have gone over many of the references regarding politics and Christianity, and what God's instructions regarding the issue is, and it is very complex.

But I feel under the present circumstances Christians would be better employed spending their time preaching the fact that their is the possibility of eternal life through the sacrifice of Jesus, and in particular because of the present state the world finds itself in.

Regards.

boatlady wrote:.Jesus had sensible things to say about how we should act in the world - as did and do many other preachers and social reformers - but the business of life is living and as a race we are making a terrible fist of it - I think we should be concentrating on how to do it better today, rather than agonising over what someone may have meant 2000 or more years ago

Agreed

There is no agonising in the Christian mind, just a looking forward to the manner in which matters on earth should be conducted and as intended.

I gree that mankind has made a complete ash of things, and there appears no going back, even were the Bible to be wrong the situation is as predicted and there is no forseable future for mankind.

Regards.

polyglide wrote:Anyone who feels mankind has either the ability or the intention to make matters better for mankind as a whole, taking into account the present situation the world finds its self in, is deluded.

The Jews believe in Jahweh, Islam believes in Allah, Christianity believes in God. Look at the mess each have made of the world at various time. Perhaps we should all be animists like the Innuits were. I don't think they ever started a war for their beliefs.

Same could be said for the female component of the human race. A good idea to eliminate the other half, do you think?

Not a good idea. My 2 concubines keep me 'warm' at night.

The fact that there are so many different religions is indicative of the realisation by mankind that there is something far greater than himself.

The fact that there are so many can be explained in the history of Babylon, where the people were divided etc;

Not having contact and speach having been muddled, the different people in different areas accepted that there must be something bigger than themselves and adopted all kinds of different means of worship.

The Bible says that ultimately all nations will be made aware of Cristianity and the opportunities it offers, and this has almost been accomplished, along with all the ills and the state the world now finds itself in, as also predicted.

Regards.

polyglide wrote:The fact that there are so many different religions is indicative of the realisation by mankind that there is something far greater than himself.

The fact that there are so many can be explained in the history of Babylon, where the people were divided etc;

Not having contact and speach having been muddled, the different people in different areas accepted that there must be something bigger than themselves and adopted all kinds of different means of worship.

The Bible says that ultimately all nations will be made aware of Cristianity and the opportunities it offers, and this has almost been accomplished, along with all the ills and the state the world now finds itself in, as also predicted.

Regards.

You mean Babel. Babylon is the Septuagint's translation into Greek. And the story of Babel is an adaptation from an earlier myth - Enmerkar and the Lord of Aratta.
Babel is often associated with a Ziggurat dedicated to the Sumerian god Marduk.

The Bible says that ultimately all nations will be made aware of Cristianity

This is also an adaptation of earlier Jewish belief that in the Jewish Messianic age all nations will recognise Jahweh as supreme.

I should of course have said the Tower of Babel, old age does catch up on you.

However, irrespective of any other consideration, it would be unrealistic to think that there would not be similarities and claims between different man made religions.

Christianity is based on the writings in the Bible and I hold the contents as the only true religion.

Regards.

polyglide wrote:Christianity is based on the writings in the Bible and I hold the contents as the only true religion

Fair enough. I once did but having studied the Bible against the History, culture and religions of the time it covers, it has become obvious the Bible is not as reliable as seems. Abraham could not have existed as described. The story of Moses and the Exodus is simply impossible - even with miracles.

You're right. Old age does catch up with you. I know!

With Age, comes wisdom.

Or not, as the case may be.

 www.dreamstime.com

With Age, comes wisdom.

IMO indisputably refuted by the OAP vote to exit on June 23rd.

trevorw2539 wrote:-
it has become obvious the Bible is not as reliable as seems.

Yes, you only need to read the first few chapters of Genesis to learn that. In 6:19 God tells Noah to “take into the boat with you a male and a female of every kind of animal”, while in 7:2 the instruction is changed to “seven pairs of each kind of ritually clean animal, but only one pair of each kind of unclean animal”. The New Testament is no better.  For example, John tells us that Jesus was crucified the day before the Passover meal was eaten, while Mark says it happened the day after. I think we’ve already discussed some of those points here:-

https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t511-how-can-anyone-believe-the-bible-when-it-contains-many-contradictions-and-fabrications

We do seem to be straying from the thread subject, so I’ll end this post with a thought from George Orwell: “In our age there is no such thing as 'keeping out of politics'. All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia.” Is the Bible any better than politics? As Richard Dawkins put it: “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.”

having studied the Bible against the History, culture and religions of the time it covers, it has become obvious the Bible is not as reliable as seems


Correct - that whole set of folk tales has been annexed by those who, for whatever reason, want to ascribe omnipotence and omniscience to their imaginary friends - and if you look at how this has played out, it seems to me that the goal is usually political power in some form.

For those who require an element of the numinous, animism may well be the way to go - for the rest, I tend to feel that the humanists have the right idea. Although, I am still strongly attracted to Quakerism with its emphasis on peace and individual responsibility

Ivan 2012 wrote:It seems that while the Bible claims that God created man in his own image, this Stanford University study suggests man creates God in his own image.

Forgive me for going back so far.

I think it's almost certain that man has created 'god' in man's image.

And I will come to the topic after the preliminaries.

In the 7th century BCE the Hebrew people of the tribe of Judah found themselves in Babylon. They had little real history or way of explaining where they had come from or what had happened to them in the past. They had only a few centuries they could account for so they gave themselves a history, writing stories around known places and some events. Abraham, Moses and the Exodus were never real. This is obvious by the mistakes they made in the stories. But these stories gave them a chance to describe what they thought Jahweh would be. Their good times were ascribed to Jahweh blessing them, and their bad times to Jahweh punishing them for their sins. They were never really monotheistic until they came up against Zoroastrianism. But that's another story.

Jesus. The truth is we have 2 Jesus' in the Gospels. We have the Christian ' Divine Son of God' Jesus, and when we strip away Christian teaching we have the Jewish Preacher called Jesus.

The Christian Jesus is seen to be someone who doesn't want to rock the boat, but who cares about people of all classes. Not willing to condemn, but forgive. He sees no reason to change the status quo. 'Give unto Caesar....' This Jesus is the 'spiritual' man, concentrating on the inner needs. Strangely enough, it's the inner needs of the Jews - not Gentiles, with which he is concerned, and not the Gentiles, to whom he never preaches.

The Jewish Jesus is a different character. He sees the injustice thrust upon the people by the Religious Hierarchy and blasts into them. He's angry that the rich care little for the poor, despite the commands of giving they ignore, but expect the poor to follow.

Personally, I believe Jesus was the Jewish Preacher - the other did not exist except in the minds of believers.

Is there one for the left or right?

trevorw2539,

I can understand all you say, and the same doubts from time to time have come to my mind, however, each time I have asked for guidance and have always received it through prayer.

If this had happened just once or twice it could be put down to chance and coincidence, however, in almost a life time this cannot be so.

Of course it takes deep faith in believing in something that cannot be either proved or disproved, you will find that many people have had the same doubts as yourself and ultimately returned to Christianity.

Forget all the doubts and lack of proof and just consider the state of the earth and the people in it at this time, and the predictions given in the Bible.

If you do not believe in creation then perhaps you must believe in a far more improbable explanation, that everything came about by a sequence of events that needed no intelligence involved, and resulted in over a million means of reproduction of animals and vegitation all reliant on each other etc;

Even if I did not truly believe in God, I would certainly be looking for another reason and explanation, other than evolution.

Kind regards.

Polyglide. I will answer your post on '-how-can-anyone-believe-the-bible-when-it-contains-many-contradictions-and-fabrications' as hinted at by Ivan.