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Locked up in the USA

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Post by astradt1 Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

This post could be put into another thread but I think this is the right one....

There is currently a British Businessman being held in jail in the USA for the alleged crime of selling batteries, which could be used in missiles, to Iran.....

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2012/03/05/christopher-tappin-extradited-bail-decision_n_1320264.html?ref=uk

He is currently being locked in his cell for 23 hours out of every 24 with the light kept on fall the time, when out of his cell he has one arm and leg shackled with one arm free to enable him to use his walking stick.....

The US prosicuter is opposing bail on the ground that this 65year old may be a 'danger to the community'....

It should be remembered that once he had lost his extradition case he surrendered himself to US Marshalls at Heathrow Airport....

On one of the morning new programms, last week, one of the Nat West Four talked about this treatment and said it was normal as the US Justice dept liked to soften up the accused to make them or will to take a plea bargain which of course means they do not have to present the 'full' evidence they have. They regularly tell the accused that if they don't take the deal they will never be able to leave the USA........

It would seem that Britain readly extradites UK citizens to the US but the US fights tooth and nail against it's citizens being sent abroad to be tried.....
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Post by Guest Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:50 am

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Post by Guest Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:10 am

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Post by Guest Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:07 am

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Post by Shirina Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:37 am

half the iranian airforce is of American origin. Why so shirty all of a sudden?
Any and all US aircraft being flown by the Iranian air force were sold to Iran while the pro-American Shah was in power. America was not selling aircraft to Ayatollah Khomeini. In fact, all weapons slated to be sent to Iran were immediately cancelled once Khomeini seized power - including 4 state-of-the-art guided missile destroyers that were actually improved versions of the Spruance class. The American Navy took possession of these four ships and sailed them itself under the Kidd class.
Nope. Foreground looks like maybe a modified F-5, never a front line US fighter.
The camouflaged aircraft is definitely an F-5. The foreground aircraft in blue with the unusual twin stabilizer is probably an F-20 Tigershark, but it's impossible to tell without a better view of the wings. Neither aircraft were ever used outside of training by the USN or the USAF. Incidentally, note not one of those aircraft in the picture is carrying a missile. This is because the electronics in those aircraft are designed to launch American-made missiles. Since we haven't sold Iran any air-to-air missiles in 30 years, they most likely have none to put on their planes. Those are most likely trainers.
The president of the Kent Golf Union, who faces up to 35 years in jail if convicted, was escorted into the courtroom on Friday wearing an orange-red prison jumpsuit, with his feet and one hand shackled.
There have been plenty of courtroom fights with defendants leaping over tables, punching their attorneys, judges and clerks hiding under tables, bailiffs tackling defendants, etc. to warrant all criminals to be shackled. If you shackle some but not others, then there is no equality. Thus even violent criminals would be justified in asking why they are being shackled while others are not. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
But it terms of been a progressive forward thinking nation, the US has always been a follower and not a leader.
Yeah, that's why when the rest of Europe was being ruled by autocratic monarchs, America was the first nation since Rome to adopt a republic.
gay rights
Where in Britain is gay marriage recognized? In America, gays can be legally married in Washington, Oregon, California, Iowa, New York, Washington DC, Massachusetts, and soon, Maryland. Other states will most likely follow suit.
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Post by astradt1 Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:29 am

Shirina wrote,
There have been plenty of courtroom fights with defendants leaping over tables, punching their attorneys, judges and clerks hiding under tables, bailiffs tackling defendants, etc. to warrant all criminals to be shackled. If you shackle some but not others, then there is no equality. Thus even violent criminals would be justified in asking why they are being shackled while others are not. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Ha yes, I well remember Jackson being brought to court in orange jump suit and shackles for his child abuse trial.
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Post by oftenwrong Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:36 am

I wonder if presenting the Accused in Court dressed in orange jump suit and shackles might affect the way impressionable Jurors feel about the matter?
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Post by astra Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:43 pm

Rock, I am aware that you Americans no longer use the Phantom.

I am aware that if they stray out of their property, they will have to fight to be able to return home!

I am aware that the F5 is a trainer - designed AFTER the Shah's time

A trainer gets you onto other things, and Iran has tastier meat than Phantoms to dish up.

You own senator McCain is demanding you send ground troops into the area - he seems to like tha idea of troops going walkies!, and yes I am aware that Cruise missiles would sort the Iran Airforce out on the first morning - at about 3am all of the iranian airforce, that is not the point was making. Trainers get you to faster and heavier things
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Post by Guest Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:13 pm

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Post by astra Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:37 pm

I repose corrected Sad
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Post by astradt1 Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:05 pm

Nice to see that at least on Judge on here has already seen all the evidence heard all the arguments and is now just waiting to pass sentance........on the British illegal arms dealer............
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Post by Scarecrow Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:20 pm

The awkward fact is that the US, though it shares our own common-law heritage, has a much more punitive view of the legal system, one which is also marked by the rough justice known as plea bargaining – pleading guilty to a lesser charge in the hope of leniency – as well as violent and terrifying prisons. US states also retain capital punishment on a wide scale.
The Conservative Government, while in opposition, promised to reform the law and they failed to do so.
An independent review of the UK's extradition arrangements by retired Court of Appeal judge Sir Scott Baker last year found that the current treaty between the US and the UK was both balanced and fair.
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Post by oftenwrong Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:18 pm

Some regular contributors might be surprised to find themselves in the same camp as Margaret Thatcher: "Those who are not with us are against us!"
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Post by trevorw2539 Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:25 pm

Re: Locked up in the USA
Locked up in the USA - Page 2 Empty by Scarecrow Today at 6:20 pm




The awkward fact is that the US, though it shares our own common-law heritage, has a much more punitive view of the legal system, one which is also marked by the rough justice known as plea bargaining – pleading guilty to a lesser charge in the hope of leniency – as well as violent and terrifying prisons. US states also retain capital punishment on a wide scale.
The Conservative Government, while in opposition, promised to reform the law and they failed to do so.
An independent review of the UK's extradition arrangements by retired Court of Appeal judge Sir Scott Baker last year found that the current treaty between the US and the UK was both balanced and fair.


Does anyone actually know all the ins and outs.

I have underlined the above. Now compare that with the JCHR report which says that it is not fair. A further report that says the burden of proof is the same for both sides. Another 'report' says that the problem lies in the difference in the understanding of the terminology.

Yes. We need the treaty to be looked at and made clear for all to see. If it needs changing so be it.

But then, what do I know?Smile
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Post by trevorw2539 Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:27 pm

Sorry. My comments above should have been in black. One eye on football, one on cuttingedge2:oops:
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Post by astra Thu Mar 08, 2012 8:42 pm

I'm NOT going to say "[b]senior moment" no no no

Whoops Just did! must be a em er....
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Post by Phil Hornby Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:28 pm

" One eye on football, one on cuttingedge2.."

Never mind the footy,you should be concentrating on......go on, shoot -you fool.....surely that was offside......NEVER ,ref!......concentrating on...on....GOALLLLLL!....now, what was I saying...? Very Happy
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Post by Guest Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:45 am

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Post by astradt1 Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:06 pm

I wonder when the US Authorities are going to hand over the US Citizen, who has recently committed the latest atrocity in Afghanistan, to the Afghan autorities?

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Post by astra Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:17 pm

I have to wonder if the Afgans are making a stink coz they know some luvverly Compensation is in the offing!

Or izzzit me?
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Post by oftenwrong Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:18 pm



There is no recorded instance of the US handing over a citizen to a Foreign Court for Trial.
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Post by Scarecrow Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:03 pm

The United Kingdom bequeathed to the United States a supreme constitution which seeks to restrict governments rather than pretended they can create rights that only God can endow. The United Kingdom has abandoned that heritage, leaving the United States alone to articulate and manifest what we once meant by ‘liberty’ and ‘justice’. You wouldn't catch an American president passing over the DNA samples of US citizens in order that 'justice' might be done under a foreign jurisdiction. Shame on David Cameron for subjecting us all to the perpetual fear of arbitrary extradition at the behest of a foreign laboratory.

One by one the ancient liberties, tradtions and customary practices of the British people are being dismantled and replaced by incipient tyranny. But Dave cruises blithely onwards, oblivious to the wreckage of the nation lying behind him. A nod to cross wearing here, a re-assurance from arch-wet Maude there, it's all insincere platitude as the juggernaut of the Project rolls inexorably forward. The Project of course does not offer prosperity, but only varying degrees of austerity. Indeed, Brussels is now the epicentre of a Greater West Europe Co-Austerity Sphere. When will the people of the EU rise in revolt?

Cameron's government is undoubtedly the worst exercise in cultural-marxismt since McBroon's. If Dave ever pretends otherwise, it is simply further evidence of his incapacity to be a Conservative Prime Minister.

One can only make one prediction about the future of Britain under the Coalition; it's going to get worse before it gets better.

On a positive note, here's a suggestion. How about a whip round amongst communicants to raise funds for a retirement home, the Ted Heath Sunset Home for Distressed Wets. Early members may include Ken Clarke and Francis Maude. Wouldn't happy hour on Friday nights be a blast?

While Magna Carta and the Bill of Rights 1689 have (apparently) been (impliedly) repealed, the English system of Common Law is explicitly subsumed to the Napoleonic system. It is now possible to be extradited to another EU country, incarcerated in a foreign prison, refused an early appearance in court and required to prove that you have not committed the offence of which you stand accused. Sad
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Post by astra Thu Mar 15, 2012 10:15 pm

Not impliedly repealed SC, May 1998 they were secretly signed away by Blair and Brown to make way for the Lisbon Treaty to be signed. The Magna Carta Society were not at all happy.

I wonder if the treaty with America or EU operates in Scotland, which operates the Roman legal system.
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