The Brits and the USA

by whitbyforklift Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

The only difference between us and our best friends across the pond is the words we and they say about the same thing.
For example we say boot they say trunk/we say bonnet,they say hood/we say rubber,they say eraser/we say negotiate they say BOMB THE B.......S. :afraid:

by trevorw2539 Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:54 pm

by Adele Carlyon Today at 9:22 pm

God can bog off for all I care! Not everyone believes in the big bearded fella in the sky

The big fella doesn't believe in you either, and he had a shave a millenia ago. Wink

by Adele Carlyon Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:00 pm

Did he invent wilkison swords too then? Razz

by Guest Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:51 am

Adele Carlyon wrote:
Re: The Brits and the USA
by Adele Carlyon on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 21:22

God can bog off for all I care!

Earlier:

Adele Carlyon wrote:
Re: The Brits and the USA
by Adele Carlyon on Mon 23 Apr 2012 - 22:57

And if murder is against the law and goes against god, well how can it be justified to put someone to death?

RockOnBrother wrote:
Re: The Brits and the USA
by RockOnBrother on Tue 24 Apr 2012 - 16:03

“Whosoever sheds man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed, for in the image of God He made man” (YHVH Elohim, Author, Creator, Owner, and Sovereign of all that is, was, and ever will be, Genesis 9:6).

Adele Carlyon or YHVH Elohim, Author, Creator, Owner, and Sovereign of all that is, was, and ever will be? I choose YHVH Elohim, Author, Creator, Owner, and Sovereign of all that is, was, and ever will be.

by oftenwrong Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:39 am

I choose my friends for their good looks, my acquaintances for their good characters, and my enemies for their intellects. A man cannot be too careful in the choice of his enemies.
Oscar Wilde
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/o/oscarwilde393118.html#uSPq5f6CiKeepsQt.99

by Adele Carlyon Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:53 am

I love Oscar! I had the honour of laying a lilly on his grave in paris when I was there celebrating my 40th birthday 5 years ago. It was a very moving experience for me.

by oftenwrong Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:24 am

Ah! Probably too young then to have wished to pay similar tribute to Jim Morrison's grave in Pere Lachaise. Jim Morrison, of The Doors died July 3rd 1971 in Paris.

by Adele Carlyon Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:33 am

My friend took me to paris as we were both celebrating our 40th's, the reason we went to paris was so that she could see Jim's grave. She's absoluely crazy about the doors. I must admit that I was quite moved to see his grave, my friend was distraught. I couldn't have left without seeking out Oscars grave and placing a tribute there. I also gave his tomb a lipstick kiss! Wink

Maria Callas is buried there along with so many other notable people, her grave was beautiful and full of lovely pictures and flowers. It really is a beautiful place.

by bambu Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:01 am

RockOnBrother wrote:
bambu wrote:
Can't dig up executed people, shake them, and say "Sorry about that, here's some starting up again money, best wishes for your future".¹

Abolishing death chambers is the best and quickest way to make sure no innocent people are ever execution-homicided in future.²
RockOnBrother wrote:

I don’t want to dig up Lawrence Russell Brewer and George Rivas, shake them, and say to the beasts, “Sorry about that, here's some starting up again money, best wishes for your future.”

Executing Lawrence Russell Brewer and George Rivas is the best and quickest way to ensure that Lawrence Russell Brewer and George Rivas never again execute innocent human souls like James Byrd Jr., an innocent human soul who was targeted by Lawrence Russell Brewer and his two fellow beats, beaten, attached by a logging chain wrapped around his ankles to the rear of a pickup truck, and dragged until his head snapped off, and Aubrey Hawkins, an innocent human soul who was targeted by George Rivas and six fellow beasts, ambushed, shot multiple times from multiple directions, and run over by a motor vehicle.

bambu wrote:
No it's not.

It’s the only foolproof way to ensure that Lawrence Russell Brewer and George Rivas never again execute innocent human souls like James Byrd Jr. and Aubrey Hawkins.

bambu wrote:
I can build you an escape-proof prison.

George Rivas was in a Texas prison. He and six others first escaped and then murdered Officer Aubrey Hawkins. I believe that particular prison was touted as virtually escape proof.

George Rivas is now in an ironclad guaranteed escape proof prison, a casket buried under at least six feet of dirt. George Rivas will escape no more; George Rivas will murder no more.

bambu wrote:
This case was shown on my tv this morning...on the Ci channel.

http://www.murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gilbert-lewis.htm

Lewis Eugene GILBERT

Date of murders: 1994
Date of arrest: September 3, 1994
Date of birth: October 29, 1971
Victims profile: Roxanne Ruddell, 37 / Ruth Lucille Loader, 79 / William Brewer, 86, and Flossie Mae Brewer, 76
Method of murder: Shooting

Retrieved 14 April 2012 from http://www.murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gilbert-lewis.htm
Notice that Lewis Eugene Gilbert was twenty-two (22) years of age when he murdered a thirty seven (37) years old woman, a seventy-nine (79) years old woman, an eighty-six (86) years old man, and a seventy-six (76) years old woman, all with the help of sixteen (16) years old Eric Elliott. Couple of tough guys.

[Lewis Eugene Gilbert and his 16 year old accomplice Eric Elliott] forced… [Roxanne Ruddell] to a nearby wooded area… Elliot tied Ruddell’s hands and Gilbert shot her three times in the head and once in the back of the neck.

Retrieved 14 April 2012 from http://www.murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gilbert-lewis.htm
Took a couple of tough guys to murder a thirty seven years old woman out in the woods.

… the killing was part of a cross-country crime spree that began in Ohio in August 1994, when an elderly Port Washington, Ohio, woman, Ruth Lucille Loader (79), was discovered missing from her home, along with her car… Gilbert confessed to having killed Loader. Her body has not been found…

Retrieved 14 April 2012 from http://www.murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gilbert-lewis.htm
Took a couple of tough guys to murder a seventy-nine years old woman and stash her body in parts unknown.

Relatives of… [William Brewer (86) and Flossie Mae Brewer (76)] found the couple in a basement wood room. Both had been shot in the head.

Retrieved 14 April 2012 from http://www.murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gilbert-lewis.htm
Took a couple of tough guys to shoot an eighty-six years old man and a seventy-six years old woman in their heads and stash their body in a basement.

Tough guys like that deserve a last dance with Ol’ Sparky. The State of Oklahoma demonstrated compassion by euthanizing the tough guys.

Escape proof prisons can be built.

Ol' Sparky makes the state the same as them; ...a cold-blooded torturer-killer.

Electrocution

The prisoner's hands often grip the chair and there may be violent movement of the limbs which can result in dislocation or fractures. The tissues swell. Defecation occurs. Steam or smoke rises and there is a smell of burning. (Hillman, 1992 and Weisberg, 1991) U.S. Supreme Court Justice William Brennan once offered the following description of an execution by electric chair:

...the prisoner's eyeballs sometimes pop out and rest on [his] cheeks. The prisoner often defecates, urinates, and vomits blood and drool. The body turns bright red as its temperature rises, and the prisoner's flesh swells and his skin stretches to the point of breaking. Sometimes the prisoner catches fire....Witnesses hear a loud and sustained sound like bacon frying, and the sickly sweet smell of burning flesh permeates the chamber. (Ecenbarger, 1994)

At postmortem, the body is hot enough to blister if touched, and the autopsy is delayed while the internal organs cool. There are third degree burns with blackening where the electrodes met the skin of the scalp and legs. According to Robert H. Kirschner, the deputy chief medical examiner of Cook County, "The brain appears cooked in most cases." (Weisberg, 1991)

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/methods-execution

#####

It's all barbaric...and must be abolished, yesterday.

by Guest Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:50 am

bambu wrote:
Can't dig up executed people, shake them, and say "Sorry about that, here's some starting up again money, best wishes for your future".¹

Abolishing death chambers is the best and quickest way to make sure no innocent people are ever execution-homicided in future.²

RockOnBrother wrote:

I don’t want to dig up Lawrence Russell Brewer and George Rivas, shake them, and say to the beasts, “Sorry about that, here's some starting up again money, best wishes for your future.”

Executing Lawrence Russell Brewer and George Rivas is the best and quickest way to ensure that Lawrence Russell Brewer and George Rivas never again execute innocent human souls like James Byrd Jr., an innocent human soul who was targeted by Lawrence Russell Brewer and his two fellow beats, beaten, attached by a logging chain wrapped around his ankles to the rear of a pickup truck, and dragged until his head snapped off, and Aubrey Hawkins, an innocent human soul who was targeted by George Rivas and six fellow beasts, ambushed, shot multiple times from multiple directions, and run over by a motor vehicle.

bambu wrote:
No it's not.

RockOnBrother wrote:
It’s the only foolproof way to ensure that Lawrence Russell Brewer and George Rivas never again execute innocent human souls like James Byrd Jr. and Aubrey Hawkins.

bambu wrote:
I can build you an escape-proof prison.

RockOnBrother wrote:
George Rivas was in a Texas prison. He and six others first escaped and then murdered Officer Aubrey Hawkins. I believe that particular prison was touted as virtually escape proof.

George Rivas is now in an ironclad guaranteed escape proof prison, a casket buried under at least six feet of dirt. George Rivas will escape no more; George Rivas will murder no more.

bambu wrote:
This case was shown on my tv this morning...on the Ci channel.

http://www.murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gilbert-lewis.htm

RockOnBrother wrote:

Lewis Eugene GILBERT

Date of murders: 1994
Date of arrest: September 3, 1994
Date of birth: October 29, 1971
Victims profile: Roxanne Ruddell, 37 / Ruth Lucille Loader, 79 / William Brewer, 86, and Flossie Mae Brewer, 76
Method of murder: Shooting

Retrieved 14 April 2012 from http://www.murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gilbert-lewis.htm
Notice that Lewis Eugene Gilbert was twenty-two (22) years of age when he murdered a thirty seven (37) years old woman, a seventy-nine (79) years old woman, an eighty-six (86) years old man, and a seventy-six (76) years old woman, all with the help of sixteen (16) years old Eric Elliott. Couple of tough guys.

[Lewis Eugene Gilbert and his 16 year old accomplice Eric Elliott] forced… [Roxanne Ruddell] to a nearby wooded area… Elliot tied Ruddell’s hands and Gilbert shot her three times in the head and once in the back of the neck.

Retrieved 14 April 2012 from http://www.murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gilbert-lewis.htm
Took a couple of tough guys to murder a thirty seven years old woman out in the woods.

… the killing was part of a cross-country crime spree that began in Ohio in August 1994, when an elderly Port Washington, Ohio, woman, Ruth Lucille Loader (79), was discovered missing from her home, along with her car… Gilbert confessed to having killed Loader. Her body has not been found…

Retrieved 14 April 2012 from http://www.murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gilbert-lewis.htm
Took a couple of tough guys to murder a seventy-nine years old woman and stash her body in parts unknown.

Relatives of… [William Brewer (86) and Flossie Mae Brewer (76)] found the couple in a basement wood room. Both had been shot in the head.

Retrieved 14 April 2012 from http://www.murderpedia.org/male.G/g1/gilbert-lewis.htm
Took a couple of tough guys to shoot an eighty-six years old man and a seventy-six years old woman in their heads and stash their body in a basement.

Tough guys like that deserve a last dance with Ol’ Sparky. The State of Oklahoma demonstrated compassion by euthanizing the tough guys.

bambu wrote:
Escape proof prisons can be built.

George Rivas escaped from prison and subsequently executed a Peace Officer of the State of Texas.

bambu wrote:
Ol' Sparky makes the state the same as them; ...a cold-blooded torturer-killer.

Ol’ Sparky’s replacement, euthanasia, has placed Lewis Eugene Gilbert, Lawrence Russell Brewer, and George Rivas in inescapable incarceration.

bambu wrote:
Electrocution

I wish. Unfortunately, euthanasia has replaced Ol’ Sparky’s final embrace.

bambu wrote:
The prisoner's hands often grip the chair and there may be violent movement of the limbs which can result in dislocation or fractures. The tissues swell. Defecation occurs. Steam or smoke rises and there is a smell of burning. (Hillman, 1992 and Weisberg, 1991) U.S. Supreme Court Justice William Brennan once offered the following description of an execution by electric chair:

...the prisoner's eyeballs sometimes pop out and rest on [his] cheeks. The prisoner often defecates, urinates, and vomits blood and drool. The body turns bright red as its temperature rises, and the prisoner's flesh swells and his skin stretches to the point of breaking. Sometimes the prisoner catches fire....Witnesses hear a loud and sustained sound like bacon frying, and the sickly sweet smell of burning flesh permeates the chamber. (Ecenbarger, 1994)

At postmortem, the body is hot enough to blister if touched, and the autopsy is delayed while the internal organs cool. There are third degree burns with blackening where the electrodes met the skin of the scalp and legs. According to Robert H. Kirschner, the deputy chief medical examiner of Cook County, "The brain appears cooked in most cases." (Weisberg, 1991)

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/methods-execution

An extraordinarily detailed description of the final moments I wish that Lewis Eugene Gilbert, Lawrence Russell Brewer, and George Rivas had experienced. Unfortunately, euthanasia has replaced Ol’ Sparky’s last sweet dance. Pity.

bambu wrote:
It's all barbaric...and must be abolished, yesterday.

It’s justice for beasts such as Lewis Eugene Gilbert, Lawrence Russell Brewer, and George Rivas that have no claim to humanity. I look forward to the pending execution of Lawrence Russell Brewer’s fellow beast executioner in the near future. As long as decency prevails in Oklahoma and Texas, beasts such as Lewis Eugene Gilbert, Lawrence Russell Brewer, and George Rivas will be sentenced to inescapable incarceration.

by bambu Sat Apr 28, 2012 10:22 am

This 'euthanasia', some say 'cold-blooded murder by the state', is nothing but misguided revenge that serves no purpose.

All it does is allow the state go on a human rights violating killing spree.
Makes it no better than the so-called beasts.

America can build escape-proof prisons, if it wants to.
Gee, it built the Hoover dam...so building escape-proof prisons should be easy.

Build a 'death row...inmates never to be put to death' prison inside another prison, a maximum security one.
That maximum security prison inside another one.
Systems put in place so that no one ever escapes.

eg;

A guide, this outer prison not built from scratch;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EJFuYjwRys
Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VpCqwPyMJk
Part 2

Note in Part 1...prisoner Ivan Milat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backpacker_Murders

The Backpacker Murders is a name given to serial killings that occurred in New South Wales, Australia during the 1990s. The bodies of seven missing young people aged 19 to 22 were discovered partly buried in the Belanglo State Forest, 15 kilometres (9.3 mi) south west of the New South Wales town of Berrima. Five of the victims were international backpackers visiting Australia (three German, two British), and two were Australian travellers from Melbourne.

Australian Ivan Milat was convicted of the murders and is serving seven consecutive life sentences plus 18 years.

#####

God decides when he dies.

Convicted terrorists are also in these maximum security prisons.
They don't like it. Smile

Never ever hitch-hike, an 'Ivan Milat' could well be the one to pick you up.

by oftenwrong Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:13 am

When Railways were invented, many otherwise sensible people declared that breathing would become impossible at speeds greater than 30 mph.

There's a lot to be frightened about for those who quite enjoy being frightened.

by bambu Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:25 am

oftenwrong wrote:When Railways were invented, many otherwise sensible people declared that breathing would become impossible at speeds greater than 30 mph.

There's a lot to be frightened about for those who quite enjoy being frightened.

Be frightened or not, depending on what value one puts on one's life and limb.

Ride the train at 12.30am?
I'm frightened, so I would never do it.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/this-city-is-so-dangerous-outrage-in-china-over-sydney-train-assault-20120424-1xiv4.html

'This city is so dangerous': outrage in China over Sydney train assault

by oftenwrong Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:48 am

But England sent its finest citizens to colonise Australia in the 18th & 19th. centuries.

by bambu Mon Apr 30, 2012 12:10 am

oftenwrong wrote:But England sent its finest citizens to colonise Australia in the 18th & 19th. centuries.

So they say.
Many came as convicts, not all were bad people though, many were victims of circumstance.
Also free settlers arrived.

from England and Ireland;

There are songs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpTkOY18Lkg
Fields of Athenry - Paddy Reilly

Paintings by Renoir etc.

____________________________

Iconic Aussie folk song;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmpW3rHLewQ
Botany Bay

The lyrics;

http://folkstream.com/010.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhU2VYpxNoQ
Mirusia Louwerse sings 'Botany Bay' - Andre Rieu Tour, Melbourne 2008

______________________________________
*********************************

The colony nearly failing, lack of many things, including females. Smile

Simple solution, empty the prisons of all the females of chilbearing age, put them on one ship...The Lady Juliana and send them off to the colony.

Little Mary Wade age 11 was waiting on death row to be hanged.

Mary was born on 5 October 1777 at Southwark, London to Mary English and George Wade of Westminster, Middlesex and then christened on 21 December 1777 at Saint Olave, Southwark, Surrey, England.
She spent her days sweeping the streets of London as a means of begging, being one of a large family of a single mother living in poverty.
On 5 October 1788, Mary with another child, Jane Whiting, 14 years old, stole the clothes (one cotton frock, one linen tippet, one linen cap) from Mary Phillips, an 8 year old, who at the time was collecting water in a bottle at a privy. They then sold the frock to a pawnbroker.
Mary was reported by another child to an Officer of the Law who later found the tippet in Mary's room whereupon she was arrested and placed in Bridewell Prison.
Her trial was held on 14 January 1789 at the Old Bailey, where she was found guilty and was sentenced to death by hanging.

#####

But as luck would have it;

On 11 March 1789, King George III was proclaimed cured of an unnamed madness; it is assumed that he suffered from porphyria, a degenerative mental disease. Five days later, in the spirit of celebration, all the women on death row, including Mary Wade, had their sentences commuted to penal transportation to Australia.
She spent 93 days in the Newgate Prison before being transported on the Lady Juliana to Australia, which was the first convict ship to hold a cargo made up entirely of women and children.
The 11-month voyage across the ocean to Sydney, arrived on 3 June 1790 and she was then sent on to Norfolk Island aboard the Surprise, arriving on 7 August 1790.

Mary Ann Wade (5 October 1777 – 17 December 1859) was only 11 years old when transported to Australia as the youngest convict aboard the Lady Juliana as part of the Second Fleet.
Her family grew to include five generations and over 300 descendants in her own lifetime and today number in the tens of thousands.

At the time of her death, Mary had over 300 living descendants and is considered as one of the founding mothers of the early settlers to Australia. Wink

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Wade

by **Ivan** Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:14 am

Firstly, it would be preferable if members didn't keep repeating each other's postings ad infinitum. A simple reference to a previous message, along with the name of the member, would suffice. Thanks.

Secondly, I find it extremely distasteful (and I doubt if I'm the only one) that anyone can "look forward to a pending execution", "wishing" that someone could be electrocuted, and considering it "unfortunate" that criminals are put to death in a more humane way. This lust for cruelty isn't about justice, it's about vengeance. I would have thought for those who support the death penalty that death itself was sufficient, without additional barbarism where the state behaves as badly as the criminal.

Thirdly, nobody has yet come up with an explanation of how an innocent person who has been executed can be brought back to life. Solve that one and you might have a better case for the death penalty. In the meantime, I'll settle for the European system, where somebody wrongly convicted of murder can be, and has been, released from jail and compensated.

by bambu Mon Apr 30, 2012 9:41 am

Ivan wrote:

Secondly, I find it extremely distasteful (and I doubt if I'm the only one) that anyone can "look forward to a pending execution", "wishing" that someone could be electrocuted, and considering it "unfortunate" that criminals are put to death in a more humane way. This lust for cruelty isn't about justice, it's about vengeance. I would have thought for those who support the death penalty that death itself was sufficient, without additional barbarism where the state behaves as badly as the criminal.

It's barbaric!

The lust for cruelty is about vengeance...but, that's what most who support the death penalty seem to want...revenge and 'closure'.
'Closure' that the sadistic and heinous killers suffered horribly as they made their victims suffer.

DP supporters held a "Bundy barbecue" celebration party outside the prison as he was execution-homicided by the state.
Saw them on my tv.

Not sure if my quoting part of your above post like I did, Ivan, is acceptable.

by Chivnail Thu May 03, 2012 4:09 am

For what it may matter, Ivan's last post sums up my feelings, as relevant to this thread, in a much less sweary way than I could ever hope to. So, y'know... "what he said!" or, "+1!".

by Ed Hull Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:13 pm

Political Parties in USA are organized along the same lines, the "HAVES" and the "HAVE NOTS"

by Ed Hull Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:19 pm

I'm confident that Austerity is USA Government Spending resulting from the Sequester will be every bit as unsuccessful as Eurpoean Austerity Programs have been in recent years.

by Shirina Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:28 pm

Austerity is just another word for "take from the poor and give to the rich." You NEVER see the rich making sacrifices unless they voluntarily do so - which is excessively rare. The CEOs of record-profit companies gladly accept their $50 million or more in cash, stocks, and perks while simultaneously laying off thousands to bump up the dividends of their stockholders.

It stands to reason that the plutocracy in which we live will demand through lobbyists and special interest cronies to have as much taken from social spending as humanly possible before any other part of the government (especially defense) loses so much as a penny.

If they wish to recreate a medieval society filled with ivory towers dotting a sea of poverty and disease, well, they should take some of that money (around $26 trillion sitting in offshore tax havens) and invest it in time machine research. Then they should get in it, travel back to around 1200 A.D. and stay there.

by oftenwrong Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:46 pm

The one financial concept which Wealthy People can't get their heads around, is an answer to the question, "How much is enough?"

by oftenwrong Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:43 pm

So here we are in the August "Silly Season" and the British Government seems intent upon repeating the disastrous 2003 invasion of Iraq, but with a twist - a proxy war in Syria against China and Russia.

Britain's butch Foreign Secretary and macho Prime Minister are intent upon showing how we deal with homophobic foreign powers - with American Missiles! Suck on that, Commies.

by boatlady Mon Aug 26, 2013 8:08 pm

Anyone would think there was a general election in the offing!!

by oftenwrong Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:26 pm

Send a gunboat! Show those fuzzie-wuzzies who's in charge.

by boatlady Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:05 am

That'll get the votes!!

by oftenwrong Tue Aug 27, 2013 10:54 am

The Brits and the USA - Page 4 79fd2_article-2196439-09F30A89000005DC-121_306x456

The smack of firm government

by Shirina Tue Aug 27, 2013 3:04 pm

Yeah, here we go again -- back to war. Obama, at least, is trying to be cautious and not simply shooting blind. Republican members of Congress, however, are pushing Obama to act unilaterally against Syria.

And I'll eat my computer if I'm wrong, but I'm betting the Republicans are push, push, pushing for military intervention hoping it goes terribly wrong -- just so they can spend their days bashing Obama over a shiny new issue. After all, whining about what happened in Benghazi is getting pretty stale, and only Obama-haters thought it was an issue anyhow.

by Penderyn Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:01 pm

oftenwrong wrote:

The smack of firm government

That is a very disgusting photograph. Are there no standards of decency here? Add Blair and it would be the most stomache-churning I've seen.

by boatlady Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:56 pm

It is rather disturbing isn't it??

by oftenwrong Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:50 pm

"The Special Relationship" (between Britain and the USA) is largely a figment of British imagining. The Americans are too polite to argue, and anyway it does them no harm to have a sycophant nation on tap.

Current events throw the "Trident" project into sharp focus. It's cripplingly expensive, due for renewal, and potentially homeless if the Scots were to go their own way. The Submarines are British, but the nuclear warheads are American-made and we require American agreement to their use.

The time for some deep thinking began yesterday at Westminster.

by boatlady Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:58 pm

I've always felt the 'special relationship' is a bit like the relationship I have with the worms in my compost heap - I like them being there, but I really don't care that much what happens to them individually

by oftenwrong Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:11 pm

Unbelievably callous. Let's hear it for the worms, Yay - yay - yay!
(Yes, even Gideon Osborne).

by Penderyn Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:22 pm

oftenwrong wrote:"The Special Relationship" (between Britain and the USA) is largely a figment of British imagining. The Americans are too polite to argue, and anyway it does them no harm to have a sycophant nation on tap.

Current events throw the "Trident" project into sharp focus. It's cripplingly expensive, due for renewal, and potentially homeless if the Scots were to go their own way. The Submarines are British, but the nuclear warheads are American-made and we require American agreement to their use.

The time for some deep thinking began yesterday at Westminster.

And let's hope the thinking goes on. What about a Declaration of Independence? Special relationship my American Elbow!

by Beth fph Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:31 pm

Wow! This is pretty cold from my pov.

I have a number of close friends in England, and (get this ... ) some of them are conservatives while my U.S. political opinions are mostly left leaning.

I don't think U.S. conservatives and liberals are the same as those in the U. K. in various ways. Our lefties are generally pro-choice, pro-gun control and rather wary of fundamentalist religion. So are my right leaning English friends. There are numerous other issues about which we agree and just a few about which we're at odds.

Things really aren't as bad as you may think.

by Beth fph Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:50 pm

Shirina wrote:Yeah, here we go again -- back to war. Obama, at least, is trying to be cautious and not simply shooting blind. Republican members of Congress, however, are pushing Obama to act unilaterally against Syria.

And I'll eat my computer if I'm wrong, but I'm betting the Republicans are push, push, pushing for military intervention hoping it goes terribly wrong -- just so they can spend their days bashing Obama over a shiny new issue. After all, whining about what happened in Benghazi is getting pretty stale, and only Obama-haters thought it was an issue anyhow.

Well, that and a new armed conflict would be like throwing a nice meaty bone to their friends throughout the military-industrial complex.

A substantial segment of the middle class would be unemployed if not for government contracts.

by oftenwrong Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:29 pm

But in the real world, now is a good time for people with overseas commitments or holiday plans to buy US Dollars whilst they are a bargain.

by bobby Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:34 pm

The Brits and the USA.
Look up War plan Red and see just what those friendly Yanks had in mind for us, and had it not have been for WW2 may have become a reality.

by **Ivan** Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:11 pm

Beth fph wrote:-
I don't think U.S. conservatives and liberals are the same as those in the U. K. in various ways.

Good to see you here. I think some British and American right-wingers are very similar:-

The Brits and the USA - Page 4 BIpIdW8CMAQLtfT

Source: twimg.com/media

by oftenwrong Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:49 am

Each political system seems to need its licensed clowns.

Screaming Lord Sutch was apparently offered a peerage when he retired from the Hustings. Anyone from the current US Republicans in Congress would seem eligible for membership of our Monster Raving Loony Party.

by Shirina Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:07 am

Bobby wrote:Look up War plan Red and see just what those friendly Yanks had in mind for us, and had it not have been for WW2 may have become a reality.

First of all, you're over-stating the "reality" of War Plan Red. It was never endorsed by either the presidency or the Congress, and the military itself believed that cooperation with the UK instead of hostility would facilitate world peace.

What War Plan Red actually represents is a bunch of analysts sitting around with too much time on their hands. It actually reminds me of the time a few of my friends and I sat around down by the river and made plans of what we would do if Russia invaded our tiny little town. I think we had watched the movie "Red Dawn" once too many times.

At any rate, to claim that War Plan Orange even might have happened is stretching it way beyond a reasonable likelihood.

Secondly, it should be remembered that the "special relationship" between the US and Britain did not materialize until WWII. War Plan Red was formed a decade earlier. Something tells me that some folks in Washington during the 20's and 30's still hadn't quite forgiven Britain for even considering siding with the Confederacy during the US Civil War. Selling Enfield Rifles to rebel soldiers was bad enough. Shocked

by oftenwrong Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:29 pm

Alarm-clock radio started my day right with a Professor of Economics at some American University opining that what was missing from Congress this week is adult supervision.

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