Is Mormonism a "cult", or just the great American religion?

First topic message reminder :

Mark Twain described the Book of Mormon as "chloroform in print”. Could a Mormon, namely Mitt Romney, be elected President of the USA in 2012?

Mormons believe that their first prophet, Joseph Smith, discovered golden plates in upstate New York in the 1820s, and that he translated them with the help of magic stones, discovering them to contain an alternative Bible. They also believe that Jesus visited America after the crucifixion in order to take his message to the descendants of ancient Israelite tribes who had lived there for centuries, forgotten by history and unknown to modern archaeology. How has this strange offshoot of Christianity survived for nearly 200 years?

Nelson Jones offers us an explanation:-

“The religion's strength comes from its quintessentially American nature. It is almost the theological expression of America itself - as baseball is its sporting expression, or Coca Cola its liquid one. Its history, first of all, is the story of the frontier and of settlement. Just as the United States is a country of immigrants, many of whom came fleeing persecution in their own country, so the early Mormons were chased from town to ever remoter town until, under the leadership of Brigham Young, they established their own mini-America in Utah. In Salt Lake City, they recreated the ideals of the Pilgrim Fathers, establishing a new and godly community far from the corruption of the world. It was an achievement that called for all the great American virtues of self-reliance, ruggedness, family values, courage and fortitude.”

For the full article:-
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/star-spangled-staggers/2011/10/american-religion-mormonism

Hi Kazza LUV i guessed it was you but wasn't sure, glad you are here though and been enjoying our chats, and no nego votes either brill isn't it

stu wrote:Hi Kazza LUV i guessed it was you but wasn't sure, glad you are here though and been enjoying our chats, and no nego votes either brill isn't it

Quite right, its brill.  What a daft system that was.

 Wasn't it just as you did not know who it was even though you had a good idea. 

Mark Twain described the Book of Mormon as "chloroform in print”. wrote:

I remember Clive James reviewing a biography of Brezhnev, and he stated:

"Here is a book so dull that if it were read aloud in the open birds would fall stunned from the sky."  

I always laugh when I remember him saying that.

 
 
 













 
I gave up reading Sheldon mainly because I found to many books like that

Just because we were falling asleep in the last few posts regarding the mormons, surely it should not stop you from posting replies my friends. surely we newcomers have not scared off all you theists out there to give us a good debate on any religion/topic of your religion. get those fingers going all those with interest in religion and lets talk ?

Remember, today is Sunday ... where do you think all the theists are?  

Out having a nice meal, pretending they have been to church. 

stu wrote:Out having a nice meal, pretending they have been to church. 

Let's hope it wasn't their last supper.

Heretic

Not yet Heretic aint got a cross built.

stu wrote:Not yet Heretic aint got a cross built.

Good response.

Goodnight, normal service resumed tomorrow.

Heretic

NIGHT MATE

stu wrote:Just because we were falling asleep in the last few posts regarding the mormons, surely it should not stop you from posting replies my friends. surely we newcomers have not scared off all you theists out there to give us a good debate on any religion/topic of your religion. get those fingers going all those with interest in religion and lets talk ?

I just found this article about the apparent U-turn done by the Mormons on the subject of gay marriage Mormon U-turn it seems in terms of church doctrine (any church that is) to of been very rapid and it seemed to stem from the conflict caused by the churches support for a ban against gay marriage in California. I'm not sure if I'm reading it right, as it is 6:00am, but they certainly seem to of changed their attitude to gay people and at a lightning pace when compared to some others.

Heretic

Well, not quite changed, but shamed into changing their homophobic stance on gays - so long as they are non-practicing. According to the church, homosexuality is still a sin. The Mormon gay community have led a successful counter campaign against Prop. 8, with many members leaving the church. So having spent $millions on an aggressive anti gay marriage campaign, the church have been forced into an about face, to save face. That's my cynical view of it anyway.

Kazza wrote:Well, not quite changed, but shamed into changing their homophobic stance on gays - so long as they are non-practicing. According to the church, homosexuality is still a sin. The Mormon gay community have led a successful counter campaign against Prop. 8, with many members leaving the church. So having spent $millions on an aggressive anti gay marriage campaign, the church have been forced into an about face, to save face. That's my cynical view of it anyway.

i think that many Christian groups have taken the position that it's the act of homosexuality that is the sin not the 'condition'. so as you say, if they are not having sex with another man they are not committing a sin. it's just a pathetic attempt for religion to get around the discrimination which they are being accused of. even worse is the belief held by some groups that it is culturally produced and can be reversed through treatment.

it's disgraceful!

In other words they can be gay but not have sex, damned stupid.

stu wrote:In other words they can be gay but not have sex, damned stupid.

well in all fairness if you're Christian then a life of celibacy is best but if you can't help yourself then you should get married in order to 'do it'. so in that respect those GAY men (i don't think it specifically refers to women, man lay with man thing) by abstaining from sex are more pure Christians than the Christians having sex!

Leviticus is meant to be taken literally, is it not. Presumably that means gay couples can do what they want as long as at least one of them is standing up. I'm surprised no one has pointed this out before.

Very literally,very true, no problems whatsoever Dan. 

Dan Fante wrote:Leviticus is meant to be taken literally, is it not. Presumably that means gay couples can do what they want as long as at least one of them is standing up. I'm surprised no one has pointed this out before.

Erect, you mean?

Norm Deplume wrote:

Dan Fante wrote:Leviticus is meant to be taken literally, is it not. Presumably that means gay couples can do what they want as long as at least one of them is standing up. I'm surprised no one has pointed this out before.

Erect, you mean?

Wahey!  

Well done Norm and Dan, haven't had so many laughs til I came on this site.    

timeout wrote:

stu wrote:In other words they can be gay but not have sex, damned stupid.

well in all fairness if you're Christian then a life of celibacy is best but if you can't help yourself then you should get married in order to 'do it'. so in that respect those GAY men (i don't think it specifically refers to women, man lay with man thing) by abstaining from sex are more pure Christians than the Christians having sex!

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Heretic

Hi Heretic, by reading the quote that you posted, does that not mean that the world population will soon die out? no more nookie for mankind?

stu wrote:Hi Heretic, by reading the quote that you posted, does that not mean that the world population will soon die out? no more nookie for mankind?

Believe the bible if you wish. Sets a high hurdle for Christianity though unless it is dismissed like "Be ye perfect as your heavenly father is perfect"

It might mean fewer second generation christians.

Heretic

Glad i'm an atheist Heretic. 

stu wrote:Glad i'm an atheist Heretic. 

They don't live up to it so why should anyone else take it seriously. 

Heretic

Very true

Heretic wrote:

timeout wrote:

stu wrote:In other words they can be gay but not have sex, damned stupid.

well in all fairness if you're Christian then a life of celibacy is best but if you can't help yourself then you should get married in order to 'do it'. so in that respect those GAY men (i don't think it specifically refers to women, man lay with man thing) by abstaining from sex are more pure Christians than the Christians having sex!

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Heretic

well of course the 'seed remaineth in him' means no spanking the monkey and still leaves the normal bodily problem of 'wet dreams' to deal with! why would god create man to have wet dreams if he wants him to keep his seed inside him?

timeout wrote:

Heretic wrote:

timeout wrote:

stu wrote:In other words they can be gay but not have sex, damned stupid.

well in all fairness if you're Christian then a life of celibacy is best but if you can't help yourself then you should get married in order to 'do it'. so in that respect those GAY men (i don't think it specifically refers to women, man lay with man thing) by abstaining from sex are more pure Christians than the Christians having sex!

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Heretic

well of course the 'seed remaineth  in him' means no spanking the monkey and still leaves the normal bodily problem of 'wet dreams' to deal with! why would god create man to have wet dreams if he wants him to keep his seed inside him?    

I think you will find that most churches try and read that verse as anything other what it quite plainly says.

Heretic

Heretic wrote:

timeout wrote:

Heretic wrote:

timeout wrote:

stu wrote:In other words they can be gay but not have sex, damned stupid.

well in all fairness if you're Christian then a life of celibacy is best but if you can't help yourself then you should get married in order to 'do it'. so in that respect those GAY men (i don't think it specifically refers to women, man lay with man thing) by abstaining from sex are more pure Christians than the Christians having sex!

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Heretic

well of course the 'seed remaineth  in him' means no spanking the monkey and still leaves the normal bodily problem of 'wet dreams' to deal with! why would god create man to have wet dreams if he wants him to keep his seed inside him?    

I think you will find that most churches try and read that verse as anything other what it quite plainly says.

Heretic

well 2000 years gives a lot of time to practice interpreting what's written into whatever you want!

we won't even go into what is written being itself interpretation!

After all that time practicing kiddo's, you would have thought your sons would have known which hand to use by now would you not.