Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

First topic message reminder :

We were warned two years ago that Cameron is an obnoxious and loathsome individual, but not enough people were listening:-
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/02/04/david-cameron-what-the-experts-say-115875-22017276/

And what the shit benefit will a New Labour landslide victory be to ordinary working people?

Penderyn wrote:And what the shit benefit will a New Labour landslide victory be to ordinary working people?

First define "ordinary working people", many of whom habitually vote Tory.

oftenwrong wrote:

Penderyn wrote:And what the shit benefit will a New Labour landslide victory be to ordinary working people?

First define "ordinary working people", many of whom habitually vote Tory.

People who work for wages, obviously, and those who are prevented from that and forced into the reserved army of labour. OBVIOUSLY they vote against their own interest: what else is the education and media system for, for Christ's sake? You think we pay our taxes for nothing?

Pendryn wrote.
 
And what the shit benefit will a New Labour landslide victory be to ordinary working people?
 
No one can be absolutely certain that the Labour party as is hasn't morphed into a Tory light party, but as things are, no Labour Government has ever proposed or introduced any policies like those now being forced on us by this rancid Tory led Coalition. Because of that factor, I feel safe that no future Labour Government will ever be like the Tories or their shyte-covered bed friends the Lib-Dems. So anyone who is busying themselves with the  bollocks "they are all the same" should try and find another orifice to use whilst attempting political wisdoms, as the one they are presently using is somewhat filled with other unmentionables.

bobby wrote:Pendryn wrote.
 
And what the shit benefit will a New Labour landslide victory be to ordinary working people?
 
No one can be absolutely certain that the Labour party as is hasn't morphed into a Tory light party, but as things are, no Labour Government has ever proposed or introduced any policies like those now being forced on us by this rancid Tory led Coalition. Because of that factor, I feel safe that no future Labour Government will ever be like the Tories or their shyte-covered bed friends the Lib-Dems. So anyone who is busying themselves with the  bollocks "they are all the same" should try and find another orifice to use whilst attempting political wisdoms, as the one they are presently using is somewhat filled with other unmentionables.

If the tories set up ten concentration camps, these lickspittles will huff and puff and cut it to five. They are a waste of breath: we have to rebuild the Labour Movement, and these arseholes are just impediments.

Penderyn. I know someone who regularly changes his church because he only agrees with 95-99% of what is being preached. It’s nice to have the luxury of being a purist. However, I’ve accepted that I’m not going to live to see ‘Jerusalem’ built among our ‘dark Satanic mills’, but I won’t give up fighting for a more civilised and a more equal future.
 
While you’re helping to rebuild the labour movement, some buggers are going to be running this country. There will be an election in May 2015. UKIP, the party of racists and misogynists, won’t be in power. (In fact, UK Polling Report is predicting it will win no seats at all.) Its absurd and extreme right-wing policies don’t stand up to even superficial scrutiny. The Lib Dems are a busted flush and have no relevance. Anyone who likes this vicious, incompetent and thoroughly corrupt government will vote Tory. Anyone who wants to get rid of it has no realistic alternative but to vote Labour.
 
Shapps has already told us that, if the Tories win a majority in 2015, they will make it even easier for bosses to sack workers. It’s been mooted – and repeated by the obnoxious Shirley Williams – that a charge of between £10 and £25 for going to see your GP is also on the cards. Another Tory government and there will be nothing left to sell off, leaving the UK as a barren wasteland, stripped bare on behalf of those corporations who stuff money into Tory coffers. It won’t be just the labour movement which needs rebuilding but the entire country.
 
I would have hoped that you could have seen considerable differences between this government (which, for example, has cut the number of nurses by about 5,000) and the last one (which gave us 85,000 more). Politics is the art of the possible, and the most important thing, which will be possible in 2015, is to confine Cameron and his posh sleazy spivs to the dustbin of history.

bobby wrote:Pendryn wrote.
 
And what the shit benefit will a New Labour landslide victory be to ordinary working people?
 
No one can be absolutely certain that the Labour party as is hasn't morphed into a Tory light party, but as things are, no Labour Government has ever proposed or introduced any policies like those now being forced on us by this rancid Tory led Coalition. Because of that factor, I feel safe that no future Labour Government will ever be like the Tories or their shyte-covered bed friends the Lib-Dems. So anyone who is busying themselves with the  bollocks "they are all the same" should try and find another orifice to use whilst attempting political wisdoms, as the one they are presently using is somewhat filled with other unmentionables.

I agree Bobby with the parents that Ed Miliband had were true socialists, and I know that the Labour party do not get everything spot on but do know that the Labour party would not bring in the kind of policies that this EFFING VILE Tory & Prostitute party have brought in.   I know that everyone is shouting for the Labour to start and put the coalition back in its box where it belongs or better still BRING IT DOWN NOW.

Penderyn wrote:And what the shit benefit will a New Labour landslide victory be to ordinary working people?

Penderyn its not Nu-Labour not with the parents of Ed Miliband had they were die hard SOCAILISTS through & through and quite a lot of that would have rubbed off on him plus the people that they had visiting the Miliband home.

Ivan
Your reasoning on this is as always spot on in my opinion.
Maybe Labour won't do everything we hope if they get into power - in fact I think they'll have their work cut out even to slow down the juggernaut of retrograde policies put in place by this government - but I don't remember a Labour government that showed the arrogance of this lot, or the contempt towards the electorate.
Also, looking back, most of the more recent Labour policies I can remember (Sure Start for example) were based on some form of evidence, rather than a blind following of Party dogma and ideology.

Boatlady The Labour party will need a good majority to deal with all the EFFING MESS that will greet them when they get into power in 2015, because they will need to REPEAL a lot of the Bills that the Tories and Lib-Dems have waved through the H.O.C, I suppose the first one will be the NHS Bill but it will not end there there will be plenty more that will save the tax payers money like all the public services that have been handed out to the private sector who do not have a clue like G4S and Serco.

Redflag wrote:

bobby wrote:Pendryn wrote.
 
And what the shit benefit will a New Labour landslide victory be to ordinary working people?
 
No one can be absolutely certain that the Labour party as is hasn't morphed into a Tory light party, but as things are, no Labour Government has ever proposed or introduced any policies like those now being forced on us by this rancid Tory led Coalition. Because of that factor, I feel safe that no future Labour Government will ever be like the Tories or their shyte-covered bed friends the Lib-Dems. So anyone who is busying themselves with the  bollocks "they are all the same" should try and find another orifice to use whilst attempting political wisdoms, as the one they are presently using is somewhat filled with other unmentionables.

I agree Bobby with the parents that Ed Miliband had were true socialists, and I know that the Labour party do not get everything spot on but do know that the Labour party would not bring in the kind of policies that this EFFING VILE Tory & Prostitute party have brought in.   I know that everyone is shouting for the Labour to start and put the coalition back in its box where it belongs or better still BRING IT DOWN NOW.

All this is obvious. If we don't fight they will use us for hamburgers, or some more high-level dishes. Voting for people who will only pretend to be on our side will produce the same result,possibly more slowly, but more likely, by weakening the opposition, faster. Who cares which gang of grovelers help the bankers strut? We have to stop them or be slaves forever.

A General Election is less than two years away, so what's the action plan then, Penderyn?

oftenwrong wrote:A General Election is less than two years away, so what's the action plan then, Penderyn?

Lose it, and concentrate on building up our unions to fight the class war the scum will unleash. The Party will have to come later. For Ex-Labour to win it would be the ultimate disaster, in my opinion, since they would simply carry on tory policies, creating yet more disillusion, grovelling and despair.

Penderyn wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:A General Election is less than two years away, so what's the action plan then, Penderyn?

Lose it, and concentrate on building up our unions to fight the class war the scum will unleash.    The Party will have to come later.   For Ex-Labour to win it would be the ultimate disaster, in my opinion, since they would simply carry on tory policies, creating yet more disillusion, grovelling and despair.

I think your wrong in this one Penderyn, thanks to Thatcher the Unions have no real power plus not a lot of people will join a Union today but do not ask why I do not know.

If the Labour party lose this general election in 2015 and Cameron gets a majority we may as well start digging a grave for the UK because that is where the Tories will take the UK because they do not give two FCUKS for anybody but there own banks hedge fund managers and the big corporate business.

I expect that your heart, like mine, missed a beat upon hearing the news (just before MPs went on holiday) that the Nation's finances had improved by 0.6% compared with a year ago.

Hallelujah! Gideon's got everything under control, and together we shall surge towards the sunlit uplands!!

Or not, as the case may be.  A Tory government may well be the result of a genuine economic upturn by 2015 - credit where it's due, but the worst-case scenario is that the British economy will not actually recover for another FOUR YEARS.

In which case Ed Milliband's Party might be well-advised to remain a spectator.

‘The mess we inherited’ – some facts with which to fight the Tory Big Lies
 
Extracts from a blog by Alastair Campbell:-
 
"This is the Growth Commission’s view of the economic performance of the Labour government 1997-2010:

- British economic performance was strong throughout the period, and GDP per head grew faster in the UK than in France, Germany, Italy or Japan.

- Productivity growth in terms of GDP per hour was second only to the US, and improvements in employment rates were better than in the US.

- This success was NOT due to an unsustainable bubble in finance, property or public spending. From 1997-2007, finance contributed around 0.4% to a 2.8% productivity growth. They say this was due to improvements delivered by Labour changes to competition policy, a major expansion in education and – wait for it – immigration.

- They make clear the crash was an international phenomenon which cannot be blamed on Labour policies, and that Labour did not leave Britain more vulnerable once the crash occurred.

- They say the structural element of the deficit was 1% of GDP in 2008 – it rose to 5% by 2010 because of the crisis in consequence of the fall in tax receipts.

- They praise the Labour government’s counter-cyclical policies post-crash, pointing out that these went some way towards limiting the fall in output; Labour ministers were right to recapitalise the banks and maintain demand.

The Tories are planning to run the line that the country should not give back the keys to the people who crashed the car. The truth is the car ran a lot better under Labour and can do so again."
 
For the whole blog:-
http://www.alastaircampbell.org/blog/2013/08/19/the-mess-we-inherited-some-facts-with-which-to-fight-the-tory-big-lies/

Does anyone know how we can get that printed on every ballot paper?

oftenwrong wrote:Does anyone know how we can get that printed on every ballot paper?

If ever I find out OW I will be the first to tell Ed Miliband then yourself if that suits.

Redflag wrote:

Penderyn wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:A General Election is less than two years away, so what's the action plan then, Penderyn?

Lose it, and concentrate on building up our unions to fight the class war the scum will unleash.    The Party will have to come later.   For Ex-Labour to win it would be the ultimate disaster, in my opinion, since they would simply carry on tory policies, creating yet more disillusion, grovelling and despair.

I think your wrong in this one Penderyn, thanks to Thatcher the Unions have no real power plus not a lot of people will join a Union today but do not ask why I do not know.

If the Labour party lose this general election in 2015 and Cameron gets a majority we may as well start digging a grave for the UK because that is where the Tories will take the UK because they do not give two FCUKS for anybody but there own banks hedge fund managers and the big corporate business.

Unions don't 'have' power - they get it by striking, and their potential members have to be woken up to that necessity. We are back to the days of the Tolpuddle Martyrs, near enough. Things were bad then, too, but we managed. Living in dreams gets us nowhere but enslaved.

The laugh there bobby is they keep on giving the Labour party ammunition to choke them with, because they just open their mouths and spout the first thing that come into their tiny minds.

Why listen to naysayers when Labour has so many reasons to be cheerful?
 
From an article by Mike Sivier:-
 
"You make an assertion in the media that will harm your opponents, even though you have no evidence to back it up. You argue your case vehemently, refusing to accept any alternatives to what you are saying. And when the evidence comes in and it’s against you, you say it is a stitch-up and continue claiming both the moral and factual victory. This is what the Conservative Party has been doing, loudly and continually. Look at its record on the NHS and on social security reforms and you’ll see that this assertion is supported by fact.

Tory claims that the bedroom tax would cut the housing benefit bill by £480 million have been destroyed after Labour MP Karen Buck retrieved figures from the House of Commons library, showing that the cost will increase by £1.5 billion this year – and still further over the next three years.

Look back over August and we have:-

- The revelation that the Lobbying Bill will do nothing to prevent professional lobbyists from influencing Parliament, but will attack your right to campaign politically.

- The revelation that a ‘top ten’ list of benefit fraudsters, reported by right-wing papers, does not exist.

- Information that the government may be corruptly supporting fracking because several of its members have stakes in fracking firms.

- The revelation that attacks on the NHS for causing needless deaths have been blown out of proportion in order to make public opinion more receptive to further privatisation."
 
For the whole article:-
http://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2013/08/26/why-listen-to-naysayers-when-labour-has-so-many-reasons-to-be-cheerful/

.... and as a side-show, you divert attention by threatening a proxy war against Russia and China in a specific area of British Interests which is .... Mesopotamian Syria.

Let's hear it for the gallant Brits who, err, married a Syrian despot.

Know your Enemy #99

This is the face of Craig Oliver, Director of Government Communications, who has described the Leader of Opposition as giving 'succour to Assad'. Language which is infantile and irresponsible.

He should apologise to Ed NOW, or did he forget to mention the 30 Tory MPs & 9 Lib-Dems that voted with the Labour party in the NO Lobbies in the H.O.C, so those Tories and Lib-Dems are also giving "succour to Assad"?

I’m most surprised that our early bird Tory troll didn’t try to ram this non-story down our throats this morning:-
 
Syrian crisis: Ed Miliband faces growing criticism from Labour ranks
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/10278338/Syrian-crisis-Ed-Miliband-faces-growing-criticism-from-Labour-ranks.html
 
It’s worth reading, but only as an example of how right-wing journalists are operating these days in their desperation to smear Ed Miliband and stop the highly probable Labour victory at the next election.
 
A good piece of journalism will contain evidence which can be verified by the reader, unlike this offering by David Barrett and Robert Watts. Look at their sources - “MPs have privately begun to voice concerns”,  “Labour politicians”,  “one MP, who declined to be named publicly”, “privately, some Labour MPs have been more critical”, “some of the more reflective Labour politicians”, “one Labour backbencher”, “a Labour spokesman”, “one Miliband loyalist”, “one party insider”. There’s nothing there which can be checked, nothing which Barrett and Watts couldn’t have made up themselves.
 
Two real people are mentioned in the article – the Labour MPs Meg Munn and Mike Gapes, just two of the 258 members of the Parliamentary Labour Party. As it transpires, neither said anything earth-shattering about Ed Miliband. Megg said: “I think both leaders bear a responsibility for getting us into this position.” Gapes said: “I’m not criticising Ed Miliband; I’m criticising the whole political process.”
 
How frightening and how irresponsible that Tory propagandists at ‘The Daily Telegraph’ can produce rubbish like this; it would have made Dr Goebbels proud. How even more frightening that many people don’t seem to possess the critical faculties to see such articles for what they are.

Such tales are stored as a template in the Editing suite computer memory, and drawn onto the page by filling in the gaps left for the names of the usual suspects. Telegraph hacks can write such a fearless exposure in the lift going up to work.

Nice example of the use of 'evidence' that in fact is no such thing.
It's why I nearly always double check anything I read in the press, especially the more right-wing organs, that do often seem to prize a catchy headline over factual reporting.

boatlady wrote:Nice example of the use of 'evidence' that in fact is no such thing.
It's why I nearly always double check anything I read in the press, especially the more right-wing organs, that do often seem to prize a catchy headline over factual reporting.

Boatlady I would not waste my money on buying any right wing newspaper as it is just a hash of Tory Spin & Lies, cobbled together by Tory voters.

Often quoted in arguments though - because they often make very cogent-sounding points.

Yes, very cogent boatlady but you could also say their points are like pie-crust, easily broken up into little LIES with the meat being the Spin.

Oh yes - thinking usually crumbles them - but thinking is a bit rare in my experience

boatlady wrote:Oh yes - thinking usually crumbles them - but thinking is a bit rare in my experience

 
They think their brain is just there to fill a space within their skull, boatlady.

The Tories are claiming that unemployment is coming down and that they’ve created over a million new jobs. Yet the vast majority of them are simply public sector jobs reclassified as private sector ones. Companies like Virgin Care are taking over huge swathes of the NHS, and those workers are then classified as private sector workers.
 
Many of the new jobs that are being created are low-paid or part-time positions or zero-hours contracts. Then there are around 250,000 people forced to go on ‘workfare’, doing a full-time job for their JSA and not being counted as unemployed. What would the unemployment figures look like with all that taken into account, I wonder?

IVAN To be honest I am dreading the TRUE unemloyment figures coming out and as you  all know that will not happen until after the G.E. in May 2015, but I bet they will still deny it even in opposition.

bobby wrote:Pendryn wrote.
 
And what the shit benefit will a New Labour landslide victory be to ordinary working people?
 
No one can be absolutely certain that the Labour party as is hasn't morphed into a Tory light party, but as things are, no Labour Government has ever proposed or introduced any policies like those now being forced on us by this rancid Tory led Coalition. Because of that factor, I feel safe that no future Labour Government will ever be like the Tories or their shyte-covered bed friends the Lib-Dems. So anyone who is busying themselves with the  bollocks "they are all the same" should try and find another orifice to use whilst attempting political wisdoms, as the one they are presently using is somewhat filled with other unmentionables.

Should've heard Tristram C, sorry, Hunt (i seemed to be channelling Jim Naughtie for a moment) last night on QT. You couldn't slip a rizla sheet between the parties from his responses. He even managed to get the seal of approval from that cow faced dullard, Peter Oborne.

Ivan wrote:The Tories are claiming that unemployment is coming down and that they’ve created over a million new jobs. Yet the vast majority of them are simply public sector jobs reclassified as private sector ones. Companies like Virgin Care are taking over huge swathes of the NHS, and those workers are then classified as private sector workers.
 
Many of the new jobs that are being created are low-paid or part-time positions or zero-hours contracts. Then there are around 250,000 people forced to go on ‘workfare’, doing a full-time job for their JSA and not being counted as unemployed. What would the unemployment figures look like with all that taken into account, I wonder?

To see what kind of jobs are available to the unemployed, just look on Universal jobmatch. That site is utterly utterly repellant.

Ivan wrote:The Tories are claiming that unemployment is coming down and that they’ve created over a million new jobs. Yet the vast majority of them are simply public sector jobs reclassified as private sector ones. Companies like Virgin Care are taking over huge swathes of the NHS, and those workers are then classified as private sector workers.
 
Many of the new jobs that are being created are low-paid or part-time positions or zero-hours contracts. Then there are around 250,000 people forced to go on ‘workfare’, doing a full-time job for their JSA and not being counted as unemployed. What would the unemployment figures look like with all that taken into account, I wonder?

Government tax revenue is still lower as a % of GDP than it was in 2007-08. GDP, per capita allowing for inflation, is also smaller than it was in back then. So, even if you believe the claim that more people are working then it doesn't say much for the pay of these new jobs.

The unwritten manifesto of the Tory Party includes a pledge to deliver a cowed and compliant workforce to its commercial donors.

You have to admit they've done rather well in three short years.

Anyone would think they'd set out to do that, instead of the election pledge to 'pay down the deficit'

boatlady wrote:Anyone would think they'd set out to do that, instead of the election pledge to 'pay down the deficit'

 
That is exactly what they intended to do boatlady, but what they were not expecting was that the UK would be so COMPLIANT.:yeahthat: