Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

First topic message reminder :

We were warned two years ago that Cameron is an obnoxious and loathsome individual, but not enough people were listening:-
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/02/04/david-cameron-what-the-experts-say-115875-22017276/

oftenwrong wrote:David Willets, writing in the Sunday Times today, says ".... one of the reasons why the UK was hit so hard in the great recession is because the last government short-sightedly put all its eggs in the financial services basket.  So when the banks collapsed, we didn't have a broad enough economy to deal with the crash, or other industries to fall back on."

Mr. Willets might just remember having been in John Major's Conservative administration as  Whip, a Cabinet Office Minister, and then Paymaster General.  Odd that he never discovered that it was Thatcher who short-sightedly put all her eggs in the financial services basket .... leaving no other industries to fall back on.  

It wasn't the last government after all - it was the Tory government before the last Tory government wot dunnit!

If he had really got his momory back OW he would have remembered that it was Thatcher that De-Regulated the banks in 1986, closed the Ship building, Steel making, and shut down the coal mines along with our manufacturing businesses.

The Tories also seem to forget while the Labour party was in gov't for 13 years jobs where plentiful decent wages were paid (after Labour brought in minimum wage) and I do not think that anyone would have thought the B(W)ankers would take GREED to its Ultimate stance  

Well, you can see why HE might find it difficult to get a table.

Cutting Edge suggests:

What's on the menu
at Hollywood Bowl Crawley

Food & Drink

Our menu is packed with quality meals and snacks that are great value for money.

oftenwrong wrote:Well, you can see why HE might find it difficult to get a table.

It could have been down to the rosette he was wearing OW, or the STENCH that was coming from him that stopped him from getting a booking at the resteraunt or what I tend to think they do not like the Tories in Crawley .  

Redflag wrote:-
I tend to think they do not like the Tories in Crawley

Sadly too many of the residents do. There are some prosperous people in Crawley, some of them London commuters and many others working at nearby Gatwick Airport. They must be the ones who fill the restaurants on Friday and Saturday nights. Like a typical Tory, our friend Liam Marshall-Ascough couldn’t give a sod about the rest.
 
Crawley was the most marginal seat in the UK in 2005, retained by Laura Moffatt for Labour by just 37 votes. She was a lovely MP who didn’t fleece the taxpayer for a flat in London (like Francis Maude from the neighbouring constituency does); she either went home to Crawley every night or slept on a camp bed in her office in Parliament. She didn’t stand again in 2010 and a Tory (Henry Smith) won by 5,928. Electoral Calculus is now showing Crawley as the most marginal seat in the country once again, but predicting that the Tories will hold it by a margin of 0.04% of the votes. Most people would describe it as “too close to call”.
 
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/conlist_c_e.html#Crawley

Crawley is typical of London and the South-east generally in having no affordable accommodation for the essential services of Firemen, Nurses, bin-men etcetera, some of whom are bussed-in from North Kent.

Why does this matter? Those people do not have a vote in Crawley.

Surely OW the people of Crawley being comutors will be P***ED OFF with the hikes in train fares which will be costing them the best part of there salaries so they can get to work or as Ed would say the "Squeezed Middle Class".

Every vote the Labour party can get matters OW, they will need a majority so that they can REPEAL a lot of the nasty bills the Tories and Fib-Dems put into law, not at once but during there term of office as they find the money to pay for so the Tories in opposition will be unable to say that the Labour party are the party of Welfare.  

I say, I say, I say, does anyone remember this one?   
 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlAkcQPIgAAvfw1.jpg

Let us hope Ivan that the people of the UK have learned a very hard lesson and never ever listen to any Tory because there all tied to the same brush will "LIE THROUGH THERE BACK TEETH" until they get what they want then its "F**K YOU"

Referring specifically to the privatisation of the Post Office, a significant part of it was NOT privatised, and remains the responsibility of the taxpayer:- The Pension scheme. The new City Spiv "owners" have no responsibility for the Royal Mail pension fund.

If you watched the last PMQs of the summer today, you will have heard Cameron’s claim that it’s Labour policy to put up taxes on “middle income people”. This lie has been formulated by taking out of context something which Harriet Harman said on LBC on Monday. Not content with the lie being told, plenty of Tory trolls set about repeating it on Twitter today, and then Grant Shapps thought that he was going to do likewise on Channel 4 News, only to find that Jon Snow shut him up before he could.

Harriet Harman has now written to Cameron:-

Dear Prime Minister,

You claimed at Prime Minister’s Questions today that “yesterday Labour announced – in an important announcement – that it is now their policy to put up taxes on middle income people”. This is not true. It is a lie.

In fact, as you surely know, since your own party circulated a transcript later, I had made a straightforward defence of our system of progressive taxation – the idea that people on higher incomes should – and do – pay more in tax overall than people on lower incomes. The full quote is here:

"But I would say Henry one of the things that I would argue that might, should probably make a really big difference to you is having a really good health service. Because you don’t want to have to pay for health insurance. You don’t want to have to pay to go private to get really good healthcare system. And I think that is not just for working class people it’s for middle class people as well. And the same with education, you know, really good school system that helps people from lower income families and middle income families as well so I think that actually the idea that there are some things that help people on low incomes and other that help people on middle incomes. Yes I think people on middle incomes should contribute more through their taxes. But actually they need those public services like the transport system." (Harriet Harman, LBC, 14 July 2014)

It is utterly clear that this is not a call for higher taxes, but a defence of a system which has previously commanded wide support, in which people on middle incomes contribute more than people on lower incomes.

While the principle of progressive taxation has been undermined in recent years, by your Government’s decision to raise VAT and to cut the top rate of tax for the highest earners, even you had not seriously questioned it until today.

Our politics, and the quality of public debate, requires that all participants, however much they may disagree, take part in good faith.

Yours sincerely,
Harriet Harman MP
Deputy Leader of the Labour Party

Isn’t a pity that the Tories don’t have any decent policies with which to woo voters, instead of trying to scare them with lies and remarks taken out of context? This is going to be a very dirty election, and clearly it’s already begun.  

One might almost conclude that David Cameron was not entirely confident of beating Labour at the next election.

DO THE TORIES HAVE ANYTHING TO OFFER US OTHER THAN MYTHS AND LIES? Well yes they could put Cameron's head on a spike and mount it outside of headquarters to start...

In reply to Ivan's above post, it amazes me that that the roll they are "supposed" to be doing is running the country, however it seems that they are more concerned about some popularity contest instead. Rather than dealing with the Country on all levels that it would be expected of them, they seem more interested in getting into some petty spat and misquoting a member of the opposition. Behaving like this isn't the lead up to the next G.E but some prom queen voting system... The desperation that once would creep to the surface occasionally now seems to be permanent. May 2015 can't come quick enough if only to have the end of this nonsense, politics is a dirty game but this isn't dirty this is out and out teenage drama minus the attitude and eyes rolling...

Conversations like the ones you hear on PMQ's are replicated in schoolyards across the country - only I suspect schoolchildren are more conversant with the rules of civilised debate on the whole

Breaking news :


Mafeking has been relieved

Sun rises in East

Tories tell lies

Ivan wrote:Crawley was the most marginal seat in the UK in 2005, retained by Laura Moffatt for Labour by just 37 votes. She was a lovely MP who didn’t fleece the taxpayer for a flat in London (like Francis Maude from the neighbouring constituency does); she either went home to Crawley every night or slept on a camp bed in her office in Parliament. She didn’t stand again in 2010 and a Tory (Henry Smith) won by 5,928. Electoral Calculus is now showing Crawley as the most marginal seat in the country once again, but predicting that the Tories will hold it by a margin of 0.04% of the votes. Most people would describe it as “too close to call”.
 
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/conlist_c_e.html#Crawley

I do not know if I am correct Ivan but did Labour take the local council in Crawley last May ??   or was that Croydon ??

Dirty tricks from the Tories again, a spoof, or maybe just a psychotic Miliband hater named Stan? This trash has been circulating on Twitter and fooled at least one so-called left-winger into thinking that it was true:-

“Another gaffe as Miliband calls for Russia to be kicked out of Commonwealth Games”

http://eveningharold.com/2014/07/21/another-gaffe-as-miliband-calls-for-russia-to-be-kicked-out-of-commonwealth-games/

Stan has also posted other stories such as:-

“Ed Miliband calls for an end to Birmingham"

“Further embarrassment for Ed Miliband as he accidentally votes for UKIP”  

“Revealed: Ed Miliband employed on zero hours contract”

I can't help thinking that Stan needs treatment for his psychosis rather than publicity on Twitter.  

I worked out that this election is going to be the dirtiest ever Ivan, I am hoping to go down south and help campaigning or stuffing envelopes but before I go I will be asking you Ivan for some facts so I will be able to choke the Tories with there own BLATANT LIES about Labour.   I may even get my own ladel out to stir up some trouble for the Tory & Fib-Dem parties what is sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander in my book.

Maybe we need to generate some headlines in a friendly publication which reads something like :     " Stan Mislays other Brain Cell at Central Office Propaganda Meeting " ...      

"Dirty Tricks" go with the territory of a Conservative Party election campaign. Hopefully the electorate are aware of that and will discount pointless point-scoring. Rising to the bait of a Stan Shaps is unproductive in any event.

I think a better idea would be to remind the people of all the Tory promises made on the run up to the 2010 general election, then to warn them the Tories will be repeating the same old Tory LIES.   Just in case people have forgot what Osborne said a few months back he would take another £25 billion from the public services I think that would do the trick with the majority of people.

We'll Call Out the Tory Lie Machine

From an article by Chris Leslie:-

"This week, the Tory Lie Machine has been cranked into action. We knew this would happen - the Tories don't have a positive vision for the country, so they're reduced to spreading lies about Labour.

They decided to issue a new set of claims about Labour's tax plans. The trouble is that their claims were a pack of lies. They claimed we want to raise National Insurance - we don't. They claimed we want to raise fuel duty - we don't, and in fact they're the ones who have added to the price of fuel by raising VAT to 20%. They claimed we want to introduce a so-called ‘death tax’ - we don't.

The truth is that Labour wants to introduce a 10p starting rate of tax, funded by a mansion tax on homes worth £2 million or more. And we want to scrap the hated bedroom tax, funded in part by reversing Osborne's tax cut for the hedge funds that give so much to the Tory Party. Most people think that's fair - so the Tories ignore it.

The Tories are desperately trying block Labour's proposal to allow the Office for Budget Responsibility to independently audit the spending and tax commitments in the manifestos of the main parties - they want to carry on making totally false claims and ignore the truth. They're desperate to distract attention from the fact they've raised taxes 24 times, and that tax and benefit changes since 2010 will leave the average household £974 a year worse off by the time of the next election - while giving millionaires a tax cut. But when they choose to lie about Labour's plans, we're going to call them out on it."

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/chris-leslie/2015-election-labour-party_b_5641656.html

IVAN I do not know if you seen the article in the Daily Mirror this week, Oliver Letwin Tory MP & Osborne saying how they would bring in a flat rate of tax for those earning over £10,000, so cleaners would be paying the same amount of tax as the Million & Billionaires.

Simular to what is going on today the poor are paying for the bankers misdeeds.

Your picture's words is out by a mile Ivan, the Tories wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and bit them on the ASS.

Sure Start centres have been open to all parents, carers and children, and many of the services have been free. They have provided early learning and full day care for pre-school children, along with advice on child and family health, parenting, money, training and employment.

The Tories have shut over 600 of these centres. Does their hypocrisy know no bounds?   


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BuiyrduCYAAT4oE.jpg

In one answer Ivan DEFINITELY NO it just proves we will have to keep on reminding people EXACTLY what the Tories stand for.   Taking off the poor to give to the friends & donors of the Tory party.

They have taken Millions off the sick disabled & the vulnerable people so their donors could have another Million pounds in their bank accounts.

IVAN The difference between Tory funding and the Labour funding is miles apart, money coming from the Unions is actually coming from Honest hard working Union members, whereas money going to the Tory party is either from those with off shore accounts so they do not pay there full amount of tax in the UK or from DODGY hedge fund managers or bankers that brought this country to its knees leaving the rest of us to pick up the bill.

I would like to know what the Tories would do if those that pay there tax via P.A.Y.E stopped and got there wages paid into an off shore account that would give them something to think about.

With the Tories, you seem to get this giant gap between what they say and what they do - I'm always amazed people don't notice - but I've come to believe that, because what they do is so far from what they promised, people somehow think they've made another promise - that we all missed - to do the very thing they are doing.

Or is it just the 'Tell a big enough lie' factor?

One of the major reasons, boatlady, is that we don't have the benefit of Miliband actually highlighting the multitude of deceptions that the Tories visit upon the nation daily.

Can anyone imagine the likes of the greasy Farage missing so many open goals were he in the position of Leader of the Opposition. For heaven's sake, Ed - WAKE UP!

"Summertime Blues"

Local parties are still not seeing a decline in Ukip support – but they are seeing a decline in their own membership. Some marginal constituencies have lost between 15 and 30 per cent of their local activists, and those are the seats where Labour did best at May’s local elections.

Those who are still there worry that they are not being given anything to campaign “on” by the centre that will mobilise their vote and help persuade others to switch.

“Everybody is awaiting something big and exciting at party conference,” said one activist. “The twitchiness that people are feeling is based on the fact that the economic news isn’t giving us a lead in the polls which everyone predicted would come."


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/summertime-blues-tories-bemoan-holiday-season-from-hell-9672429.html?origin=internalSearch

Lucky for the Tories, then, that they have Milly doing his best not to provide any reason to vote Labour in May 2015 - or indeed, any time thereafter.

 How many more opportunities is the fellow going to miss to take aim at the Cameron Clique...?

Hello Phil. I think that you and I must be on a different planet. I find it difficult to understand just how everyone seems to except Ed Miliband's indifference to what the Tory Led Coalition scum are doing, we get excuses like "he is keeping his powder dry or he will not release his policies in fear the Government will nick them and steal his thunder. Why don't people realise the Government only need to have their sleaze exposed. It seems there is something new almost every day attack worthy, if not what's wrong with keeping the publics awareness of past doings, dishonesty including being directly responsible for peoples deaths.

I have always assumed that I am on a different planet from most people, Bobby, but it seems that you and I share the concern that there is all too little attempt to highlight the many Tory horror stories from an inept Leader of the Opposition.

What on earth Milly thinks he is achieving I can't fathom , and it does make you wonder what he would actually do were he to become the tenant of 10 Downing Street.

I can't think of more than a handful of politicians who inspire anything but contempt in me - one possible exception to the rule is Chuka Umunna who - if he stays out of 'political trouble' - could well make a very talented and effective leader one day.

But as somebody on here used to say : 'what do I know?'...

There is someone better to lead the Labour party and that is Alan Johnston PH, but we have Ed Miliband and its too late to change now or we would be handing the general election to the Tories and I am sure nobody on here or around the UK want that to happen Labour voters and the activists would never forgive the Labour party.

My suggestion is to get behind Ed he must have a plan of action to deal with what ever the Tories fire at him and we all know that its not going to be pleasant because the Tories are desperate not to be known as "THE ONE TERM FIRM" but it will give me the greatest pleasure to say those words on the 8th May 2015.

If I 'got behind' Ed , it would be to put a firework up his bottom to wake him up - in the forlorn hope he would do something meaningful to show up the Tories for what they are...      

I suspect that Ed Milliband is just standing back and letting the Tories shoot themselves in the foot - repeatedly.

It seems many people may be noticing the gap between rhetoric and reality, and maybe a second term in office for the Tories is not on the cards.

In relation to election promises - I guess he'll have to see the full extent of the damage before he can set out detailed plans for the future

The Hanged Man in fact does not refer to execution, but to the situation that arises from time to time in everyone's life, where one is 'kept hanging' by being unable to choose a clear course of action.

For the Tories' current situation the ten of Swords may be more appropriate - often depicted as ten swords being artistically penetrated into a human body - implying the tendency of intellect badly used to turn against its owner.