Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

First topic message reminder :

We were warned two years ago that Cameron is an obnoxious and loathsome individual, but not enough people were listening:-
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/02/04/david-cameron-what-the-experts-say-115875-22017276/

The Hanged Man in fact does not refer to execution, but to the situation that arises from time to time in everyone's life, where one is 'kept hanging' by being unable to choose a clear course of action.

For the Tories' current situation the ten of Swords may be more appropriate - often depicted as ten swords being artistically penetrated into a human body - implying the tendency of intellect badly used to turn against its owner.

  

Ivan wrote:We were warned two years ago that Cameron is an obnoxious and loathsome individual, but not enough people were listening:-
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/02/04/david-cameron-what-the-experts-say-115875-22017276/

Thank you for the link Ivan, I do not know if its just me but the same Jrff Randall seems to be on the side of Scameron he does not say a word when Davy boy comes out with stats that heve been fiddled by himself but maybe I am looking at this a bias.

I have on more than one occasion seen Randall leaving London on the same train as me.

You can't trust anyone with money who chooses to travel Standard Class...   

.. and black, of course, is merely a darker shade of the colour white, so just leave everything to your pals in the Tory Party.

I know the Tories are COMPULSIVE BLATANT LIARS but your picture is stretching it a bit Ivan, Grant Shapps tried to follow me on twitter so I BLOCKED him. I did hear later he does it to get his numbers of followers up, is it because he needs to feel loved, he should have thought about that before he joined the Tory party.

I don't think the Tories are much bothered about being LOVED - so long as they can stay in charge. (Which looks increasingly unlikely with the passing of each day, Praise the Lord.)

I will second & third that OW, but it does worry me in case he tries to fix the general election in 2015 so that maybe that a coalition with Ukip can be arrived at. He has fiddled every gov't department figure as we all know with Sanctions & Workfare has covered up the true Unemployment figures and we will not find out until we have a Labour gov't.

William Hague claims expenses for organising protest meeting against Tory NHS cuts he voted for

From an article by Jack Blanchard:-

William Hague claimed expenses to fund a protest meeting – to fight his own government’s NHS reforms. The millionaire Tory claimed £264.76 on expenses to pay for adverts in his local paper to advertise the NHS protest gathering he organised in January. He claimed a further £77.50 to hire the town hall. At the meeting he voiced “acute concern” over proposed NHS changes and promised to take complaints “to the very top”.

But records show in Westminster he has voted in favour of all the Tory-led government’s healthcare reforms. Labour’s Grahame Morris, a member of the Commons health select committee, blasted: “It sounds like Count Dracula complaining about a robbery at a blood bank. Hague has been a major player in a government that – without any mandate from the electorate – has introduced the biggest top-down organisation in the history of the NHS.”

Mr Hague was first criticised in 2012 for joining a march against NHS cuts in his constituency after backing reforms.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/william-hague-claims-expenses-organising-4092609

"Protest" meeting reports presumably intended for local consumption only.

As soon as Ed Miliband had announced Labour's plan for a mansion tax on properties worth more than £2 million, that deceitful scumbag who variously calls himself Michael Green, Grant Shapps and Sebastian Fox put out this new Tory poster:-



Is your family home worth more than £2 million??

Then Boris Johnson chipped in by claiming that a mansion tax would be "a tax on living in London". The average house price in London is currently £533,000.

Hmm, this must be a good policy if it's rattling the cages of the likes of Shapps and Johnson.

A scientific researcher named Pavlov once conducted an experiment with dogs in which he rang a bell every time that the dogs were fed. After about a month of this process it was observed that upon a ring of the bell, his dogs would salivate even though no food accompanied the sound.

Hence the description of Shapps, Johnson as "Pavlov's dogs".

Their knee-jerk reaction to any Labour proposal promises to be a regular feature during the run-up to next May's election.

It will get worse than this OW, the Tories just like Salmonds SNP are DESPERATE for complete power over the people of the UK. It will be up to the people of the UK whether or not they allow the Tories to pull the wool over there eyes once again as they did in 2010. I will be doing my bit by helping the candidates & MPs of the Labour party and I can assure you all my mouth with not be shut, I will tell the people of the UK the TRUTH about what the Tories are doing, and will do if they allow the Tories or Fib-Dems back into power in 2015.

Just this week the Tories have came out saying they will build 100,000 homes, but there is a BUT they will be built on land that is contaminated in more ways than one. So not far into paying your mortgage you will find that your home is not worth the money you paid for it but by then the builder and the Tories will be long gone.

Promises, promises! Politicians of all parties have been making election promises about housing since the end of the First World War. (Homes fit for heroes!)

We should by now be capable of placing a value upon such dreams.

Cameron no longer even makes a pretence of answering questions at PMQs. All he did today was to reply to Ed Miliband’s questions about the deteriorating state of the NHS in England by repeating again and again the now standard Tory smear that the Labour-run NHS in Wales is performing badly. It’s based on an anecdote: the allegations made by Labour MP Ann Clwyd concerning the death of her husband. In fact, most of her claims were rejected following a review:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-27119059

As always, the Tories have to rely on lies to try and turn the attention away from their own malice and incompetence. They’ve claimed that the number of Welsh patients being treated in the English NHS is rising, but the number has actually fallen by 10% since 2009/10. While the NHS in England deteriorates, more English patients are getting treated in the NHS in Wales.

In Wales, more than 87% of patients with cancer begin treatment within 62 days of a GP referral, compared to 84% in England. The difference may not seem substantial, but it clearly disproves the Tory lie that the Welsh NHS is far worse than the English NHS at treating cancer patients.

“The Prime Minister set the scurrilous tone for their campaign when he described Offa’s Dyke as ‘the line between life and death’. Welsh patients deserve better than a British Prime Minister and a UK government that denigrate the NHS in Wales in order to score points at Westminster.” (Owen Smith, shadow secretary of state for Wales)

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/100588593179/tory-smears-on-welsh-nhs-exposed

That seems clear enough - a clear case of dishonesty on the part of the government - not even using real figures creatively - just inventing 'facts' to suit their agenda

As predicted, this is going to be a very dirty general election. The Tories are not confident of winning, so concentrate on dissing every alternative.

Amongst which they'll trash the joint before they go.

Ivan wrote:William Hague claims expenses for organising protest meeting against Tory NHS cuts he voted for

From an article by Jack Blanchard:-

William Hague claimed expenses to fund a protest meeting – to fight his own government’s NHS reforms. The millionaire Tory claimed £264.76 on expenses to pay for adverts in his local paper to advertise the NHS protest gathering he organised in January. He claimed a further £77.50 to hire the town hall. At the meeting he voiced “acute concern” over proposed NHS changes and promised to take complaints “to the very top”.

But records show in Westminster he has voted in favour of all the Tory-led government’s healthcare reforms. Labour’s Grahame Morris, a member of the Commons health select committee, blasted: “It sounds like Count Dracula complaining about a robbery at a blood bank. Hague has been a major player in a government that – without any mandate from the electorate – has introduced the biggest top-down organisation in the history of the NHS.”

Mr Hague was first criticised in 2012 for joining a march against NHS cuts in his constituency after backing reforms.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/william-hague-claims-expenses-organising-4092609

Two faced nasty EFFING poor excuse for a human being after marching through the yes lobby to pass the 2012 NHS bill Hague now thinks it should be abolished, does there happen to be a general election soon is Hague scared in case he loses his seat in the HOC YES

William Hague isn't standing in the general election:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-29674728

Probably an interesting back story there - wonder if we'll ever know?

boatlady. That’s what I was wondering too. Politics has been Hague’s whole life, ever since his vomit-inducing speech as a 16-year-old at the Tory conference in 1977. He’s only 53 now (even though he looks about 20 years older), so why retire at this point?  

Maybe Hague has recognised what a disaster he’s been? After the Tories were slaughtered in the 1997 election, he became their leader and in the next election in 2001 achieved a net gain of one seat. He ran a poor campaign based on the slogan “save the pound”, something which Gordon Brown had no intention of abolishing anyway. He was the first leader of the Tory Party since the 1920s not to go on and become PM.

As foreign secretary, Hague was involved in a scandal over sharing a hotel bedroom with a young man and then giving him a Westminster job. He has always denied rumours that he is gay, which is no crime, although he is married. (As a young MP he shared a flat on several occasions with the openly gay Alan Duncan.) Hague made an idiot of himself by announcing to the world that “Gaddafi was on his way to Venezuela”, when he was actually hiding in a drain in Libya. In August 2012, he stationed police on the steps of the Ecuadorian embassy in London in what appeared to be a threat to invade it and snatch Julian Assange. Such action would have been in breach of international law and would have set a dangerous precedent, putting British embassy staff all over the world at risk.

If Dan Fante reads this, he’ll no doubt accuse me yet again of being a conspiracy theorist. However, my suspicion is that Hague could be leaving politics before the proverbial hits the fan, some time during the next parliament, over the Tory paedophile scandal in the 1980s and its subsequent cover-up. It’s pretty transparent that Cameron and May have been doing their utmost to delay the inquiry as long as possible, firstly by appointing the sister of a deceased suspect to lead it, and when that proved untenable by giving the job to a friend of a former minister who still has questions to answer.

When Hague was Welsh secretary in the 1990s, he set up an inquiry into child abuse in care homes near Wrexham, but he claims that he never saw any evidence linking Thatcher’s aide Peter Morrison to the abuse. Nevertheless, questions may arise about Hague’s judgement in accepting advice not to publish the Jillings report into the abuse when it was written in 1996, and who knows, that may open up a whole can of worms.

If you're right, we may well get to know all of it in due course

Why David Cameron's political point-scoring on the Welsh NHS won't wash

Extracts from an article by Owen Smith:-

“The week-long ‘exposé’ by ‘The Daily Mail’ of the Welsh NHS has managed to expose just two things, both of which we already knew. One, they print what the Tories ask them to print and, two, Cameron is running scared of his record on the NHS in England.

At every turn, Wales’ health minister Mark Drakeford has been one step ahead, in some cases batting back charges from the Tory rag before they’ve even been thrown. People in Wales aren’t going to listen to a Tory on the NHS: they remember all too vividly the destruction and decay the Thatcher and Major governments left our public services in. Meanwhile, voters in England rightly want the PM to talk about the English NHS; they know that when Cameron obfuscates and talks about Wales, he’s avoiding the question and running away from his own record.

So I hope Lynton Crosby’s advice to Cameron is along the following lines:-  

Keep talking about the Welsh NHS, keep reminding people in Wales how far we’ve come from the days of Tory neglect where patients were waiting over two years for straightforward operations. And keep shying away from your record in England: your wasteful top-down re-organisation, a million English patients waiting over 4 hours and the worst year in A&E for over a decade. Lastly, I’ve lost track of the number of times you’ve mentioned the Welsh NHS at PMQs – it’s around 40, give or take a slander or two – but try reaching 100 before the election comes and see how voters in both England and Wales feel about it.”

For the whole article:-
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/10/why-david-camerons-political-point-scoring-welsh-nhs-wont-wash

When will a Tory ever admit that their real intention is, and always has been, to reduce the NHS to a means-tested "safety-net" while sensible people buy private insurance?

boatlady wrote:That seems clear enough - a clear case of dishonesty on the part of the government - not even using real figures creatively - just inventing 'facts' to suit their agenda

Every time a Tory opens there mouth its just to spin another bloody LIE, if there was a contest for who can tell the biggest LIE the Tories would win hands down boatlady because since May 2010 along with there poodles (Lib-Dems) every figure they have spouted is BLATANT LIES. Hence the demand from the EU for £1.7 billion because they have even fiddled the figures on the economy hoping it would help them win the general election in May 2015, when in reality it has done the reverse.

"Labour will always tax you more than the Tories."

That's one of the standard Tory lies which has been repeated so often that many people take it as axiomatic.

Now for the facts, as provided by the Adam Smith Institute, which is not exactly a hotbed of socialism:-

http://www.blog.rippedoffbritons.com/2013/11/graphs-at-glance-tax-freedom-day-over.html

Ivan wrote:Why David Cameron's political point-scoring on the Welsh NHS won't wash

Extracts from an article by Owen Smith:-

“The week-long ‘exposé’ by ‘The Daily Mail’ of the Welsh NHS has managed to expose just two things, both of which we already knew. One, they print what the Tories ask them to print and, two, Cameron is running scared of his record on the NHS in England.

At every turn, Wales’ health minister Mark Drakeford has been one step ahead, in some cases batting back charges from the Tory rag before they’ve even been thrown. People in Wales aren’t going to listen to a Tory on the NHS: they remember all too vividly the destruction and decay the Thatcher and Major governments left our public services in. Meanwhile, voters in England rightly want the PM to talk about the English NHS; they know that when Cameron obfuscates and talks about Wales, he’s avoiding the question and running away from his own record..”

For the whole article:-
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/10/why-david-camerons-political-point-scoring-welsh-nhs-wont-wash

I think Carwyn Jones will get his own back on the Tories & Lib-Dems tonight Ivan as he is on QT, Stephen Crabb is the Tory MP I just hope he is ready to get scalped by Carwyn also the leader of Plaid Cymru & the leader of the Welsh Lib-Dems is also on so QT will be well worth a Watch tonight.

This was part of the response from my (Tory, sadly) mp when I asked him about nhs privatisation.

Thank you for contacting me about private sector involvement in the NHS and the National Health Service (Amended Duties an Powers) Bill. I'm afraid I can't support the bill because it woudl, in effect, reverse all the changes we've made to reduce the number of managers and bureacrats in the NHS and redirect vital funding toward s the frontline so we could hir emore doctors and nurses to treat patients.

Secondly I'm not sure it's right to equate the NHS reforms with privatising the NHS. To start with, the rules governing whether private companies can run parts of the NHS were writeen and introduced by the last Labour government; the current coalition Government had no hand in them. And, interestingly, the proportion of privately-run NHS health trusts had climbed up to 5% by the end of the last Labour Government in 2010, and has gone up much more slowly (to just 7%) sonce the coalition took over.

Message for Today. (From the Health Minister)

Please don't trouble your GP or the A&E - Go to your friendly local chemist.

Oh, and by the way, the NHS is safe in his hands.

I see there is a hospital in Colchester that is in trouble, I would like to see the Tories answer the people of Essex on that one they have quite a few Tory Mps in Essex OW.

http://cameron-cloggysmoralcompass.blogspot.co.uk/p/coalition-christmas.html

This link shows all the lies that Cameron has dealt us.

I should hope that Ed will grasp all these facts and expose the liar for what he is.
If he and Labour could get all this over to the fickle duped Joe public then Labour
would no doubt win the next election.

I am afraid that Ed Miliband has failed time after time after time to draw the public's attention to the Tory crimes. But for his failures the next election result would not be in doubt.

As it is, we are in for more Tory-led coalition. However, as I have said elsewhere, it may be just as well, given what the next government will need to do to the ordinary people of the nation.

"As it is, we are in for more Tory-led coalition."

Phil, I find it difficult to be able to come to that conclusion my friend. What is your take on the subject with respect to your conclusion? Surely the outcome is far too complex to make a decision at this point. For example we do not know how the Scots will vote and what the impact of UKIP will have on the parties, in particular upon the Tory Party.

The Hornby instincts rarely let me down, Mel! Watch and wait...

Phil Hornby wrote:

....As it is, we are in for more Tory-led coalition.

I'm forced to acknowledge the loathsome Osborne as a clever tactician. Who else could make such a shambles as a "Recovery in which the national debt has increased", sound like an endorsement of Tory skill in care of the economy. Efforts made to deal with the deficit within one Parliamentary term have done nothing except to confirm the validity of Alasdair Darling's declared intentions.

Osborne's blood-curdling threats of ever-increasing cuts to benefits entitlement and public employment are designed to scare-off any opposing Party that might be tempted to take over such "insoluble problems". But how could Labour possibly do any worse?

Sorry Phil but your "gut instincts" let you down badly on the sport forum with your feelings about Liverpool being successful this season etc.

Although there is some people where the penny has not dropped YET Mel & PH, I tend to think what Giddy-up Osborne has said about cuts he will bring in if the Tories win the G.E in 2015. If Labour do not get a majority they could go into coalition with the NHA party who would help Andy Burnham get our NHS back to the way it should be.

Wouldn't it be rather nice if the press put that on their front pages? Pigs might fly but that is what should happen.
If it were Brown or Miliband or Blair, it would make headlines for days in not just the press but the media as a whole.