Who should be included in the leaders’ debates for the 2015 general election?

First topic message reminder :

The UK general election campaign of 2010 was unique in at least one way – it was the first time that televised leaders’ debates were held. It was decided that the leaders of Labour, the Tories and the Liberal Democrats would be included, because they represented the three largest parties and because they contested every constituency in Britain.
 
Until recently, Cameron wasn’t going to agree to leaders’ debates in 2015. Historically, that was a common response from an incumbent Prime Minister, no doubt because a debate reduces his or her status to that of being equal to the leaders of other parties. However, Cameron seems to have come round to the idea, but he won’t agree on who should take part. In particular, he doesn’t think Nigel Farage of UKIP should be included.
 
So who should be included? These seem to be the issues to consider:-
 
- UKIP claims that its leader should take part in the debates because it is matching and often outpolling the Liberal Democrats, and because it has a lot of councillors and some MEPs and will probably do well in the 2014 EU elections.
 
- A recent ComRes poll found that 54% of people think Nigel Farage should be allowed to take part.
 
- The broadcasters may well want Farage on the platform. Although his slick replies are often trite or even downright dishonest, love him or loathe him he does make for good television.
 
- Many countries that have PR as their voting system have a threshold of 5%. If your party gets at least that, it gets seats in the legislature. If polls are anything to go by, UKIP is almost certain to get more than 5% - but it probably won’t win any seats because we don’t have PR.
 
- The leaders’ debates will be part of the campaign for an election to the British Parliament (not the EU), where UKIP has no MPs and won only 3.2% of the vote in 2010. According to the pollsters, UKIP probably won’t win any seats at Westminster in 2015 either.
 
- If UKIP’s leader is allowed to take part in the debates, why not the leader of the Green Party, which does at least have an MP at Westminster?
 
- Cameron has said: "Obviously, we have to decide on this nearer the time, but the TV debates should be about the parties that are competing to form the government, in my view.” If "competing to form the next Westminster government" means those parties who can possibly get a majority in Westminster, then it should only be Labour and the Tories represented on the platform.
 
- The Germans are having a general election on 22 September. Their televised debates only include the two party leaders who have any chance of becoming their Chancellor (the equivalent of our PM).
 
- After the precedent set in 2010, it's unlikely that Cameron would have the audacity to exclude Clegg from the debates, but that won't stop a significant number in his party attempting to do so.
 
- Alex Salmond was excluded from the debates in 2010 on the basis that the SNP, fielding candidates only in Scotland, could not be in a position to form a government for the whole of the UK.
 
- If "competing to form the next Westminster government" means any party who could possibly form part of a government coalition in Westminster, then all party leaders in the UK should be represented - and that applies equally to the SNP, PC, UKIP, the Green Party and the Ulster parties.
 
Isn’t life complicated? So many issues thrown up just over a few televised debates. There is one simple solution: don’t have any debates, or would that be a case of trying to put the genie back in the bottle?
 
I recognise the need to interest the voting public, but electing a government is not the same as choosing the winner of ‘X Factor’. Remember all that 'Cleggmania' last time? I assume he was considered the best-looking of the candidates, but what did that tell us about his honesty and integrity? Nothing. Our general elections are not about electing a President (sadly) or even electing a Prime Minister, all we can do is elect our local MP. In my opinion, televised debates encourage the cult of personality, when an election campaign should focus on policies.
 
But I digress. Assuming the debates do take place, who do you think should be allowed to take part? And why?
 
Source used:-
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/09/how-will-tories-justify-farages-exclusion-leaders-debates

Plus Ivan all the bloody "BLATANT LIES" he has told the people of the UK, I would like to see all his LIES come back and bite him on the butt now that would be painfull for Davy boy.

Courtesy of David Schneider:-


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAUMi-9UsAABgxr.png

Davy boy is still running scared of Ed Miliband, nothing has changed in regards to who DC will go up against in the TV debates. he seems to forget none of the other six leaders like him very much maybe he thinks the Greens will stand up for him since it was through him they have been allowed to take partin the debates. But it will show who is sympathetic towards the Tory mantra, & according to the Tories some people like what the Tories have done regarding getting the deficit down.

Suits you sir makes Davy boy look like the chicken that he really is, because he knows that Ed Miliband would wipe the floor with him and Lyton Crosby knows it too.

What a difference five years makes!

“I absolutely believe in these debates and think they are great.”
David Cameron, 'Sky News', 14 April 2010

“I think it is great we are having these debates and I hope they go someway to restore some of the faith and some of the trust into our politics because we badly need that once again in this country.”
David Cameron, 'Leaders Debate', ITV, 15 April 2010

“Look, I’ve been calling for these debates for five years, I challenged Blair, I challenged Brown, I challenged when I was ahead in the polls, and when I was behind in the polls. I just think they are a good thing.”
David Cameron, 'Daily Telegraph', 17 April 2010

"I’ve always wanted these debates to happen. I mean they happen in every country. They even happen in Mongolia for heaven’s sake and it’s part of the modern age that we should be in.”
David Cameron, BBC3, 21 April 2010

“I think these debates are here to stay. They clearly engage people in politics, which is what we need.”
David Cameron, 'News Of The World', 2 May 2010

“If you want the TV debates to go ahead you have got to do it fairly between the main parties and look, having said I want them, having challenged people to have them and quite right, Sky saying let’s have them, it would have been feeble to find some excuse to back out so I thought we’ve got to stick at this, we’ve got to do it. It will be challenging, it was, but I think I came through them.”
David Cameron, 'Sky News', 3 May 2010

“On TV debates, I’m in favour of them, I think they’re good and we should go on having them and I will certainly play my part in trying to make that happen.”
David Cameron, coalition mid-term review, 7th Jan 2012

“I think TV debates are good. I enjoyed them last time – particularly the last one.”
David Cameron, Press Association, 10th December 2012

“You know we’ve been going on for years about let’s have these debates and I think it really vindicated having that. I think people will be asking themselves why on earth, what was all the fuss about? Why on earth didn’t we have these things before? We should have done and it’s great they’re underway now and I think we’ll have them in every election in the future and I think that’s a really good thing for our democracy.”
David Cameron, BBC Radio Manchester, 16 April 2014

But surely "we" have the fastest growing economy in the UK. I don't think Shouty Dave is above that sort of obfuscation.

Well IMHO the two weeks prior to the election, the main debates should only be between the leaders of the three main parties which at this time is of course, Labour, conservatives, and ukip. As I do not believe the other parties will get enough seats to count at all anyway if there were a coalition.

Does this photo tell you anything about tonight's debate?


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCvl15fVEAA1WCu.jpg

UKIP lost I do believe Ivan,

I was impressed with all the participants, with the exception of the odious Farage, and I think the audience were too.

Miliband came across as I expected, calm, even masterful and on the whole set the tone for the whole debate.
The Green Party woman (is it Benn or Bennett?) seemed very hostile to Labour, which seemed a bit stupid really, as her party has no hope of gaining a majority and they would surely be completely unable to effect any of their changes under a Tory government - whereas under a Labour government, at least policies would be heading in the same general direction on a number of fronts.

I'd also like to scrap Trident, but I don't know enough to insist on it - and neither does Miliband - I guess until he's safely in No 10 he won't have the proper access to know whether this would be a good move.

Natalie Bennett is the leader of the Green Party. Why Caroline Lucas relinquished the role in 2012 is baffling. She had been leader at the same time as being an MEP and she comes across as much more competent and convincing than her successor.

The Green Party is likely to win between 0 and 3 seats, most probably just the one it holds already in Brighton. It has an outside chance in the previously Lib Dem seats of Bristol West and Norwich South, but I wouldn’t advise placing a bet on it winning either of them.

Farage really seems like a busted flush these days, I wonder if he isn’t very well. It could be that his heavy smoking and drinking have taken their toll, and he’s said that he will quit as UKIP leader if he doesn’t get elected in Thanet South.

As to nuclear weapons, I don’t understand why Britain and France need them but all other European countries seem to manage without. Do people feel less safe in Germany, Scandinavia, Spain, Switzerland etc when they haven’t got some idiot like Cameron with his finger on the nuclear button? I don’t think so.

It’s a lovely picture, but why didn’t they include Ed in their group hug? However, please don’t post the same item on two threads. Not only does that tend to reduce its effect, but it's against our site owners’ rules; apparently they consider such things to be “unpleasant and useless” (which sounds a bit strong, but may just be a bad translation!).

https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t18-posting-rules

Please also note that the source of any photos or images posted on the forum should be acknowledged. Thanks.

Very much so Claudine.

nice one Ivan.

Someone will presumably send that letter back after May 7 marked "No longer at this address. Return to sender".

stuart torr wrote: nice one Ivan.

HEAR HEAR Stuart

Hiya Redflag.
Good to hear from you, hope things are going well, going to be doing some canvassing myself love, when they get round to sorting me out.









Please have conversations with other members via the personal messaging system, not on threads. Thanks.
Ivan

Wishing he was needing foodbanks also though O.W.