Who is this man?

First topic message reminder :

the Quran describes how Mary, the mother of Jesus, was approached by an angel from God, bringing her tidings she had never imagined: that she will give birth to a son, a Messiah, who will be of the righteous and will be a prophet of God, calling the Children of Israel (the Israelites) to the straight path of God.
 
“(And mention) when the angels said, ‘O Mary, indeed God gives you good tidings of a word  from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary – distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near (to God).  He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous.” (Quran 3:45-46)
 
Naturally, for Mary, this news was both strange and seemingly impossible.
 
“She said, ‘My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?’  (The angel) said, “Such is God; He creates what He wills.  When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is.  And He will teach him writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel.” (Quran 3:47-48)
 
The very nature of Jesus is so special, that God compares the uniqueness of His creation to that of the first man and prophet, Adam.
 
“Indeed, the example of Jesus to God is like that of Adam.  He created him from dust; then He said to him, ‘Be,’ and he was.” (Quran 3:59)
Jesus and His Miracles
 
Jesus became one of the greatest prophets of God, and was sent to the Children of Israel in order to confirm the teachings of his predecessor, the Prophet Moses.  His birth was a miracle, and, like all prophets of God, he was granted several miracles.  He approached his people, telling them:
 
“And (make him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (who will say), ‘Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord’ in that I design for you from the clay (that which is) like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of God.  And I cure the blind (from birth) and the leper, and I give life to the dead – by permission of God.  And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses.  Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.  And (I have come) confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you.  And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear God and obey me.  Indeed, God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him.  That is the straight path.” (Quran 3:49-51)
Jesus’s Followers
 
The Quran continues the story of Jesus by relating several incidents of his life and his disciples.
 
“But when Jesus felt (persistence in) disbelief from them, he said, ‘Who are my supporters for (the cause of) God?’  The disciples said,” We are supporters for God.  We have believed in God and testify that we are Muslims (submitting to Him.)  Our Lord, we have believed in what You revealed and have followed the messenger (i.e., Jesus), so register us among the witnesses (to truth).” (Quran 3:52-53)
 
In another incident, after which an entire surah (chapter) of the Quran is named, the disciples of Jesus asked him for another miracle.
 
“(And remember) when the disciples said, ‘O Jesus, Son of Mary, can your Lord send down to us a table (spread with food) from the heaven?’ (Jesus) said, ‘Fear God, if you should be believers.’  They said, ‘We wish to eat from it and let our hearts be reassured and know that you have been truthful to us and be among its witnesses.’  Said Jesus, the son of Mary, ‘O God, our Lord, send down to us a table (spread with food) from the heaven to be for us a festival for the first of us and the last of us and a sign from You.  And provide for us, and You are the best of providers.’” (Quran 5:112-114)
 
God sent them the table they had asked for, but not without a warning.
 
“God said, ‘Indeed, I will sent it down to you, but whoever disbelieves afterwards from among you – then indeed will I punish him with a punishment by which I have not punished anyone among the worlds.’” (Quran 5:115)
The End of the Story?
 
The story of Jesus never really ends in the Quran, as we are told that Jesus was not killed, but that rather, God raised His beloved prophet up to Him.
 
“(Mention) when God said, ‘O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify (i.e., free) you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you (in submission to God alone) superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection.  Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ.  And as for those who disbelieved, I will punish them with a severe punishment in this world and the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers.’  But as for those who believed and did righteous deeds, He will give them in full their rewards, and God does not like the wrongdoers.” (Quran 3:55-57)
 
The Quran also points out that Jesus was neither killed nor crucified.  Speaking of the Children of Israel, God faults their accusations against Mary as well as their claim that they killed Jesus.
 
“And (We cursed them) for their disbelief and their saying against Mary a great slander.  And (for) their saying, ‘Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God.’  And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but (another) was made to resemble him to them.  And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it.  They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption.  And they did not kill him, for certain.  Rather, God raised him to Himself.  And ever is God Exalted in Might and Wise.” (Quran 4:156-158)
 
The Quran confirms that Jesus was raised up by God, and the Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, reassured us that Jesus will be sent down to earth once again before the Day of Judgment.  In a saying of Prophet Muhammad,  narrated by Abu Hurairah, the Prophet said:
 
“By the One in Whose hand is my self, definitely the son of Maryam will soon descend among you as a just judge, and he will break the cross, kill the pig, and abolish the jizyah (tribute), and wealth will be so abundant that no one will accept it, until a single prostration will be better than the world and everything in it.” (Saheeh Al-Bukhari)
 
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yEq172Yvs4

What follows are five lines of reasoning which clarify this subject for us through the Bible itself and thereby allow us to discover the real Jesus.
1.      Jesus Never Calls Himself God
 
The Bible (in spite of being changed and adulterated over time) contains many verses in which Jesus speaks of God as a separate person to himself.  Here are just a few of them:
 
When a man addressed Jesus as “Good Teacher”, he replied “Why do you call me good? No one is good except the one God.’’ [Mark 10]
 
In another instance he says: “I can’t do anything by myself.  Whatever I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just.  I don’t seek my own will but the will of the one who sent me.” [John 5]
 
Jesus speaks of God as a separate being to himself: I’m going up to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.  [John 20]
In this verse he affirms that he was sent by God: This is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you sent.  [John 17]
 
If Jesus was God he would have told people to worship him, but he did the opposite and disapproved anyone worshipping him: And in vain they worship Me [Matthew 15]
 
If Jesus claimed to be God than there should be hundreds of verses in the Bible which would have mentioned it.  But there is not a single verse in the entire Bible in which Jesus says I am God, worship me.
2.      Jesus as Son and Lord?
 
Jesus is sometimes referred to as ‘Lord’ in the Bible and at other times as ‘Son of God’.  God is called the ‘Father’, so putting these names together it could be claimed that Jesus is the son of God.  But if we look at each of these titles in context we will find that they are symbolic and not to be taken literally.
 
‘Son of God’ is a term used in ancient Hebrew for a righteous person.  God calls Israel his ‘son’: This is what the LORD says: Israel is my oldest son.[Exodus 4].  Also, David is called the ‘Son of God’: The LORD has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.’ [Psalm 2].  In fact anyone who is righteous is referred to as God’s ‘son’: All who are led by God’s Spirit are God’s sons and daughters.  [Romans 8].
 
In the same way, when the word ‘Father’ is used to refer to God it shouldn’t be taken literally.  Instead it’s a way of saying God is the creator, sustainer, cherisher etc.  There are many verses for us to understand this symbolic meaning of the word ‘Father’, for example: one God and Father of all.  [Ephesians 4].
 
Jesus is sometimes called ‘Lord’ by the disciples.  ‘Lord’ is a term used for God and also for people who are held in high esteem.  There are many examples of the word ‘Lord’ being used for people in the Bible: So they (Joseph’s brothers) went up to Joseph’s steward and spoke to him at the entrance to the house.  “We beg your pardon, our lord,” they said.  [Genesis 43-20].  Also, in other parts of the Bible, Jesus is even called a ‘servant’ of God by the disciples: the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.  [Acts 3].  This clearly shows that when ‘Lord’ is used to refer to Jesus, it is a title of respect not of divinity.
3.      The Nature of Jesus
 
The nature of Jesus was totally different to that of God.  There are many parts of the Bible that highlight this difference in nature:
 
God is All-Knowing but Jesus by his own admission was not All-Knowing.  This can be seen in the following passage when Jesus says “But nobody knows when that day or hour will come, not the heavenly angels and not the Son.  Only the Father knows.” [Matthew 24]
 
God is independent and he doesn’t need sleep, food or water.  Jesus however ate, drank, slept and depended on God: As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father.  [John 6].  Another sign of Jesus’ dependence on God is that he prayed to God: Going a little farther, he (Jesus) fell with his face to the ground and prayed [Matthew 26].  This shows that Jesus himself sought help from God.  God, being the one who answers prayers does not need to pray to anyone.  Also, Jesus said: I am going to the Father, because the Father is greater than me.  [John 14].
 
The Bible is clear that God is unseen and is not a man: for no one may see me and live.  [Exodus 33], God is not a man [Numbers 23].  Jesus on the other hand was a man who was seen by thousands of people, so he could not be God.  Furthermore, the Bible makes it clear that God is too great to be inside his creation: But how could God possibly live on earth with people? If heaven, even the highest heaven, can’t contain you [2 Chronicles 6:18].  According to this verse Jesus cannot be God living on the earth.
 
Also the Bible calls Jesus a Prophet [Matthew 21-11], so how could Jesus be God and be God’s Prophet at the same time? That wouldn’t make sense.
 
Additionally the Bible informs us that God does not change: I the Lord do not change.  [Malachi 3].  Jesus however went through many changes in his life such as age, height, weight etc.
 
These are just some of the proofs within the Bible, which make it clear that the nature of Jesus and God is completely different.  Some people may claim that Jesus had both a human and a divine nature.  This is a claim that Jesus never made, and is in clear contradiction to the Bible which maintains that God has one nature.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCymLowlNEQ

ennin, as you will know if you have read other content, the above posting is neither comment nor original thought but a straightforward copy of some other person's work. The footnote reference you provide is sufficient on its own to draw the attention of anyone interested enough.

Just copying slabs of stuff from the internet however carries no intrinsic merit.

A number of the World's religions integrate a school system , in which boys spend the whole time memorising the Holy Book. In Morocco I saw madrasa of that description alongside others which also taught a trade such as decorative hammered metal or leatherwork. Israel accommodates an ultra-religious community who receive state benefits which allow them to study religion for their entire lives.

We should not be surprised if a function now taught is proselytising on the internet. Interesting that they are now quoting the Holy Bible too. Where may that lead?

If the Bible has been changed and adulterated so much, then how can it constitute 'proof' of anything? Obviously I don't expect an answer from Totty/Eminem, given they aren't here to debate anything, just to rant / preach / cut and paste.

Anyone can quote verse after verse of the Bible and it is totally irrelevant to today.

No one can actually interprit the whole of the Bibles meaning, it is a case of seek and ye shall find.

The times before the birth of Jesus need not concern present day man.

Jesus came to save the world through his ssuffering.

Of course Jesus is not God, he is the son of God.

Dan Fante wrote:If the Bible has been changed and adulterated so much, then how can it constitute 'proof' of anything? Obviously I don't expect an answer from Totty/Eminem, given they aren't here to debate anything, just to rant / preach / cut and paste.

 
see here
 
No, we're not going to "see here". Stop posting videos and copying from the internet. toty5 has been told numerous times in this thread that this is a *discussion forum*, which means back and forth conversation. Neither of you seem to understand what that means, and neither or you are abiding by our forum rules. Your videos have been removed.
~moonbeam

polyglide wrote:Anyone can quote verse after verse of the Bible and it is totally irrelevant to today.

No one can actually interprit the whole of the Bibles meaning, it is a case of seek and ye shall find.

The times before the birth of Jesus need not concern present day man.

Jesus came to save the world through his ssuffering.

Of course Jesus is not God, he is the son of God.

 
see here
 
See above post for the reason why your video has been removed
~moonbeam

Dan Fante wrote:If the Bible has been changed and adulterated so much, then how can it constitute 'proof' of anything? Obviously I don't expect an answer from Totty/Eminem, given they aren't here to debate anything, just to rant / preach / cut and paste.

 
eninn, in one of your posts just above, I reiterated that you are NOT to simply copy and paste from the internet, and directed you to stop posting youtube videos. You have ignored both. I have also said earlier in this thread to stop pushing Islam. You ignore that as well. As such, your posts have been deleted, and your account disabled for 24 hours. If you continue to ignore the rules of this forum, then you will be subject to further account sanctions.

I would suggest you familiarize yourself with our policies, most notably regarding copyright infringement, but also about having multiple accounts.

1. Don't break the law.
That means no racism, homophobia or messages designed to incite violence or religious hatred, no obscenity and no libel. It also means no breaches of copyright. If you quote from a source, keep your extract short (just the main points) and post a link to the original so that other members can read the full story.

 
 
 

3. Don't use multiple nicks.
Your IP address can be seen by the staff on this forum, and to post under more than one name is just dishonest and deceptive. Anyone who does that will have all their accounts deleted.

~moonbeam

polyglide wrote:Anyone can quote verse after verse of the Bible and it is totally irrelevant to today.

No one can actually interprit the whole of the Bibles meaning, it is a case of seek and ye shall find.

The times before the birth of Jesus need not concern present day man.

Jesus came to save the world through his ssuffering.

Of course Jesus is not God, he is the son of God.

 
This post has also been deleted for the reasons listed in your previous post.

~moonbeam

Are you familiar with this biblical verse? John 11:35.   

Yes and what is the problem?.

Dan Fante wrote:-
Are you familiar with this biblical verse? John 11:35.

Being an atheist, I don't take much interest in extracts from scriptures. However, I'm sure if that Jesus character could see how certain people had written about him on this thread, he would probably weep.  

 

Jesus WEPT.

PG, the Jesus written about long afterwards by men who did not live whilst he was supposedly preaching and crucified, said he wept whilst on the cross dying.

you tell me but he is not jesus from the bible is he?

Judas Iscariot? Sheriff of Nottingham? Dick Dastardly?

Moses parting the Red Sea?