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What now for Labour? (Part 3)

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What now for Labour? (Part 3)

Post by Ivan on Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:29 am

First topic message reminder :

Many of the members who regularly take part in the ‘Labour doorstep’ campaign are told in working class areas that the party doesn’t seem to care about those who should be its core supporters. This isn’t a response which has become prevalent in the last year or so, it goes back much further. Tony Blair, and to a lesser extent Gordon Brown, took the working class for granted, probably assuming that they had nowhere else to go. They were wrong. Labour’s parliamentary representation in Scotland has been virtually extinguished, and in England enough of its natural supporters have gone to UKIP to damage the party and let the Tories in. This all happened before Jeremy Corbyn became leader of the Labour Party, so let's not try to blame him.

If Labour has been perceived, rightly or wrongly, as deserting the working class, maybe it’s because it has been too concerned with chasing the votes of ‘moderate’ Tories. But ask yourself – what price has to be paid to gain the support of people who approve of the bedroom tax, savage cuts to welfare, the trebling of tuition fees, tax cuts for the rich and the creeping privatisation of the NHS? What sort of a Labour Party would emasculate itself to the extent that it is attractive to people who hold such views? The Tories have moved the centre of political gravity ever further to the right, so why should Labour try to occupy what Tories and their media poodles now define as ‘the centre ground’?

Those who have deserted Labour for UKIP have been persuaded that the EU and immigrants are the cause of most of their problems. If Brexit happens – and even if it doesn’t – at least some of those people will eventually realise that imports (and in particular food) are going to become dearer, an extra £350 million a week is not going to go to the NHS, and many bosses will continue to pay low wages, regardless of the number of immigrants in the country. They may even notice that the NHS is becoming ever more short-staffed. Labour must never pander to the ‘Alf Garnett’ mentality; to do so would betray the party’s basic principles and offend most of the membership so seriously that they would leave. History has also shown that trying to appease racists and fascists doesn’t work.

On the second part of this thread we were told by one poster that socialism is dead. I would suggest that it is merely dormant across most of the Western world, and that the needs which caused it to develop in the first place are very much in existence and requiring solutions. Capitalism doesn’t provide them, it just produces ever greater hardship and inequality. We can already see how in the UK home ownership is becoming out of the reach of more people, especially younger ones. The 62 richest people on the planet have as much wealth as half of the world’s population. On its present course, it will be capitalism that will destroy itself if low-wage workers can’t afford to buy what is produced.
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Re: What now for Labour? (Part 3)

Post by boatlady on Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:04 pm

I see that the 'moderate' Jess Phillips is sniping again - this time because the 'moderate' Yvette Cooper isn't getting very far with her impassioned defence of Laura Kuenssberg - and has in fact attracted some criticism

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Re: What now for Labour? (Part 3)

Post by boatlady on Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:57 pm

Anyone who remember the second leadership election last year may remember that I received a letter from Labour HQ to say that I was expelled from the party due to not being a suitable person to be in the membership.
Subsequently, I made a number of calls to Labour and eventually cancelled my Direct Debit.
Last night, imagine my surprise to be contacted by a pleasant young woman who wanted to remind me that my membership (?) is up for renewal and my subs are in arrears - what are these people ON?
I spoke to the secretary of the local CLP who tells me that, despite getting an expulsion letter, I still show up on her data base as an active party member - apparently, even if you've been expelled you still have to write to resign your membership.
I find this worrying - this is the party that aspires to govern our country. If they can't even do basic record keeping ---
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Re: What now for Labour? (Part 3)

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:32 pm

Any organisation in any field of human activity, which relies upon unpaid volunteers to run "the back office", is likely to get what they paid for.
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Re: What now for Labour? (Part 3)

Post by snowyflake on Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:10 pm

[You must be registered and logged in to see this link.] wrote:Anyone who remember the second leadership election last year may remember that I received a letter from Labour HQ to say that I was expelled from the party due to not being a suitable person to be in the membership.
Subsequently, I made a number of calls to Labour and eventually cancelled my Direct Debit.
Last night, imagine my surprise to be contacted by a pleasant young woman who wanted to remind me that my membership (?) is up for renewal and my subs are in arrears - what are these people ON?
I spoke to the secretary of the local CLP who tells me that, despite getting an expulsion letter, I still show up on her data base as an active party member - apparently, even if you've been expelled you still have to write to resign your membership.
I find this worrying - this is the party that aspires to govern our country. If they can't even do basic record keeping ---

It's hard to remember things when you were a pothead in the 60's and 70's. afro lol! It was more likely a computer glitch and you were probably not even supposed to be cut from the membership. Were you secretly flogging Conservative propaganda and that's why you got cut? tongue
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Re: What now for Labour? (Part 3)

Post by boatlady on Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:26 pm

Yes, Snowyflake - that'll be it - I'm a secret Tory
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Re: What now for Labour? (Part 3)

Post by Ivan on Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:22 pm

Now we know what cost Labour in 2015: Ed Miliband didn’t go far enough

From an article by Owen Jones:-

So now we know Labour suffered its 2015 rout not because it was too left-wing, but because it was not radical enough. Why conduct a post-mortem on the long-deceased, or pick at an old scab, when there are now so many fresher wounds? 2015, after all, was another political age. “2015 politics: Ed Miliband eats a sandwich a bit weirdly”, as one tweet put it last year, “2016 politics: everything is on fire”. Trump, Brexit, Corbyn, a snap election that calamitously rebounded: it sometimes feels as though 50 years of politics have been compressed into just two.

It matters because the debate over ideas has yet to be settled. During the initial rise of Jeremy Corbyn, Tony Blair – taking time off from advising brutal dictators – confessed that he would not want a left-wing Labour Party to win, even if he thought that was a plausible electoral route, which he did not. He advised Corbyn’s supporters to seek a heart transplant. He now has the honesty to say that this radical platform could indeed triumph, but he still would not wish it to do so. This perspective is not shared by the large majority of Labour MPs, many of whom believed the combined array of left-wing policies would lead to electoral Armageddon but are relieved – even excited – to discover otherwise.

Corbyn’s success is down to him and the insurgency behind him. He made the decision to paint his radical manifesto in “primary colours”, as one Labour figure from the old order puts it. Take rail: the old offer had promises on public options for rail that were too complex and muddled to cut through; Corbyn’s Labour simply offered nationalisation. In truth, the manifesto reflected where people had shifted. Corbyn went for bust and brought Labour closer to government than it had been after its terrible defeat two years ago.

New Labour was a product of its time. Thatcherism could not have triumphed in the 1960s; Corbynism is the child of our own era. To understand the future, we must reconsider the past. And the lesson is this: Labour’s role is to tear down a bankrupt social order, not defend it.


For the whole article:-
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Re: What now for Labour? (Part 3)

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:39 pm

Can discussion of "Labour" ever have much validity while so many professed members of the party clearly hold such divergent opinions?
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Re: What now for Labour? (Part 3)

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