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Racism

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Racism

Post by witchfinder on Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:30 am

Monday night - 28th Nov

This YouTube video has caused a real stir tonight on the internet, comments have been coming in at the rate of one every second, faster than the teleprinter on Final Score, have a look and see what you think.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pONVYjAd1wc

PLEASE NOTE - that the above video does contain strong language which some posters might find offensive.

I would not be surprised if this doesn't make the news tomorrow, it was initially posted onto Facebook but has found its way all over the net, personally I think the young woman in the video requires a smack in the mouth, but let's hear your views.


Last edited by witchfinder on Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:39 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Racism

Post by ROB on Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:17 am


Witchfinder,

It grieves my heart to be as harsh as I must be. That woman exemplifies what’s wrong with the United Kingdom. In my opinion, she’s a blatant, hateful, immoral racist that ought to have her child removed by Protective Services to prevent that precious soul from being infected and ravaged by his “mother’s” diseased, polluted, depraved mind.

The other person that said, “I’m English too” demonstrates the only way for your United Kingdom to rid itself of this disease which threatens to rot the UK from the inside out. Y’all must confront it, straight out, like we did in the United States when we brought down Jim Crow and its allies such as “not enough Black history to warrant a course, much less a course of study”, mouthed by a crypto-racist unto my hearing in the president’s office of a prestigious US institution of higher learning (ranked 3rd among US undergraduate institutions at the time).

I and others confronted this racist in hiding in such a way that, by 20 January 2009, an episode in Black American history began sufficiently voluminous that it will require an entire library to tell the tale.

You should be enraged. You should find that behavior intolerable. You should promise yourself to take every opportunity to confront this evil. That’s what it takes.

Google Goodman, Schwerner, and Chaney. Also, please listen to JL Chestnut.

JL Chestnut speaking of Bloody Sunday and its aftermath

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=95338969
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Re: Racism

Post by witchfinder on Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:07 am

The video last night had 350,000 hits - I note that this morning the figure is almost at 2.2 million.

RockOnBrother

One very big difference between the United States and the UK is the fact that black people are a relatively new concept here, whereas in your country there was allready a substantial minority of Afro-American upon independence way back in 1776.

Allthough we did have a very tiny handfull of black people before the Second World War, the majority arrived in the 1950s and 1960s, and Asians were virtualy non-existent prior to the 1960s.

I think that in a historical context the British people are still getting used to the idea, wherever you go in the world there are narrow minded people who just do not like change, and I believe that as time moves on, so will the attitudes as held by the woman in the video.

The reason I make the above conclusion is because of how attitudes have changed in my lifetime - for the better, I note that the vast majority of comments are against the loud mouthed woman, which pleases me and gives me hope and satisfaction.

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Re: Racism

Post by witchfinder on Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:23 am

Tuesday 29th Nov : 1018 am GMT

BBC website > news > [NEW]

Woman accused of racist rant on Croydon to Wimbledon tram

A woman has been charged after a video apparently showing a passenger abusing ethnic minority people on a south London tram was posted online.

The clip, viewed more than two million times since being uploaded to YouTube on Sunday, shows a woman sitting with a child, shouting at fellow passengers.

The incident happened on the Croydon-to-Wimbledon Tramlink route.

Emma West, 34, of New Addington, Croydon, is accused of a racially-aggravated public order offence.

She was arrested on Monday and is due to appear before Croydon Magistrates' Court later.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15933829

Well I did predict that it would make the news, and it was here on Cutting Edge first before it was on the BBC.
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Re: Racism

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:50 am

There are undoubtedly some people in the world who you wouldn't want to spend Christmas with.

Many folk cannot feel good about themselves until they identify someone they choose as an inferior. The attitudes are nurtured in bullying at school.
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Re: Racism

Post by astradt1 on Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:01 am

There is perhaps a resurgence of racist opinions in Britain at the moment fueled by the down turn in the economy and the what seems like constant reporting of how there is this never ending flood of 'immigrants' taking jobs in Britain, by the right leaning press..........

There never seems to be a day go by without some such story in the Wail, sExpress or the Bun.....

At times Britain feels and sounds like 1930's Germany......

If a falsehood is said often enough it starts to be believed as true......
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Re: Racism

Post by blueturando on Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:47 pm

Two things here Astradt1.......The never ending flood of immigrants is quite evident when you look at that tram as an example. I am all for immigration if it is controlled in a better way, but is has been mismanaged for years.

Secondly this women is an idiot!! Swearing and spouting racial abuse is one thing, but in front of her own and other peoples children is totally unexceptable. No wonder some kids grow up to the way they are...Ideally I would like to deport her, others like her and all illegal immigrants instantly.

The problem with these views being expressed more in a downturn is not the fault of any immigrants. If our feckless indiginous population were forced to take the jobs only the immigrants will currently do instead of sitting at home making babies, playing X Box and picking up their easy benefit payments then maybe attitudes would change. I would rather have 20 immigrants who are willling to put in a hard days graft and pay their taxes than one lazy indiginous person who wont do the job because they cant be bothered

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Re: Racism

Post by Ivan on Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:23 pm

black people are a relatively new concept here
I must disagree with you there, witchfinder.

People of African origin have probably lived in Britain for at least two thousand years. Archaeological finds and historical records testify that people of African origin have lived in Britain as far back as the first century AD. Africans have been present in Europe from classical times. In the 2nd and 3rd centuries, Roman soldiers of African origin served in Britain, and some stayed after their military service ended. According to the historians Fryer, Edwards and Walvin, in the 9th century Viking fleets raided North Africa and Spain, captured black people, and took them to Britain and Ireland.

From the end of the 15th century, there is evidence of the presence of ‘Black Moors’ in accounts of the reign of King James IV of Scotland (1473-1513), and later in Elizabethan England. The first mention of a black person in the royal records is ‘John Blanke’, who served as a black trumpeter to both Henry VII and Henry VIII from 1507 and featured on the embroidered roll in the Royal College of Arms.

James IV was a fun-loving king with many interests, and many Black Moors were present at his court. Some worked as servants or possibly slaves, but others seem to have been invited guests or musicians. Moor women were also mentioned in the Lord High Treasurer's accounts. It's clear they were not servants, since they were showered with items such as gowns of satin, ribbons, slippers and gloves, paid for by the king.

The Tudor period was significant for black settlement in England. In 1501, we know that Catherine of Aragon landed at Deptford with a multinational and multicultural entourage of Moors, Muslims and Jews, descendants of those who had settled in Spain from the 8th century. Besides 'Black Moors' from Spain and North Africa, in Tudor times black people began to arrive as a result of the slave trade - as interpreters, sailors and servants, and even as slaves.

Africans also visited Britain for other reasons. Some were merchants conducting business with British traders, and others were the children of wealthy African rulers or European planters who came to Europe to be educated. For example, Francis Williams, born in 1700, was a Jamaican of African descent who studied at Cambridge University. On his return to the West Indies, he ran a school in Spanish Town.

On 29 September 1687, a Moor purchased the freedom of the city of York, which shows that he was wealthy. He is listed in the freemen's roll as 'John Moore - blacke' and is sometimes referred to as 'Johannes' Moore.

There is evidence of black people in Britain on surviving tombstones. A famous example is the tombstone of 18-year-old Scipio Africanus, who died on 21 December 1720. He is buried in Henbury cemetery, near Bristol. Another has been found at Sunderland Point, Lancaster. Olaudah Equiano (also known as Gustavus Vassa) was an African about whom we know a great deal, and a prominent member of his community. In 1797 he had to bury his four-year-old daughter Anna Maria in St Andrew's Church, Chesterton, in Cambridge.

In 1764, the Gentleman's Magazine estimated that 20,000 black people lived in London, a figure accepted by the anti-slavery campaigner Granville Sharp. However, in 1772, Lord Mansfield put the number in the country as a whole at 15,000. Thousands of black men, and possibly a few black women, fought in the British navy or with the Duke of Wellington in the army during the Napoleonic Wars. And Queen Victoria had two African goddaughters who visited her at Buckingham Palace.
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Re: Racism

Post by tlttf on Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:36 am

The idiot on the tram has been arrested now and has been locked up pending psychological reports.

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Re: Racism

Post by witchfinder on Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:07 pm

Ivan - yes I acknowledge that there have been black people in Britain for hundreds of years, infact longer than in the United States, but my point is that prior to the Second World War they were relatively rare and formed a very small minority

Around 95% of all black British people decend from immigrants who arrived after the Second World War.

In the late 18th century afro-americans formed almost one fifth of the population of the United States, around 15% in the mid 19th century and today make up around 13% of the population,.

No doubt that if there were to be an influx of native Americans into Britain, some people in society would say they should not be here, but in 60 years time they would be part of the scenery - if you see what I am getting at.

Some people just dont like change

In the United States, black people have been a very visible and large section of society since 1776 - the same cannot be said about here in Britain.

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Re: Racism

Post by astra on Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:16 pm

native Americans into Britain, some people in society would say they should not be here, [quote]


Witchy, You can add to that the number of "White Settlers" in Scotland!


Happy St Andrew's Day bounce
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Re: Racism

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:26 pm

If, and/or when, Britain either leaves or is forced out of the European Union, the Little Englanders among us will want to erect a Berlin Wall around the British Isles.
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Re: Racism

Post by blueturando on Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:17 pm

Really Oftenwrong? Can I see your proof of this? and did we want the a wall before the EU was thought up

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Re: Racism

Post by jackthelad on Sat Dec 10, 2011 7:49 pm

oftenwrong say's.
If, and/or when, Britain either leaves or is forced out of the European Union, the Little Englanders among us will want to erect a Berlin Wall around the British Isles

Well if we do build a wall, we have plenty of out off work bricklayers looking for a job. Would be a boost the the brick making, and block making and cement making industries also, it would help to stop coastal errosion.
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Re: Racism

Post by blueturando on Sat Dec 10, 2011 8:04 pm

Good thinking Jack....I like it Very Happy

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Re: Racism

Post by Penderyn on Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:30 pm

jackthelad wrote:oftenwrong say's.
If, and/or when, Britain either leaves or is forced out of the European Union, the Little Englanders among us will want to erect a Berlin Wall around the British Isles

Well if we do build a wall, we have plenty of out off work bricklayers looking for a job. Would be a boost the the brick making, and block making and cement making industries also, it would help to stop coastal errosion.

You build it round little England, chum, and leave the rest of us out of the nuthouse.
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Re: Racism

Post by boatlady on Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:50 pm

Just looking at this thread, and I was wondering if any of us Brits could actually define what we mean be being British.
Personally, I wouldn't want to be looking at the concept in a historical way, but looking at the traits and attitudes that we would see as typically British.
For me, that might include the ability to absorb other cultures and races, an acceptance of difference, whether of race, culture, social class, wealth, or whatever, and an unwillingness as individuals to really accept that anyone is better than us.
Maybe other people might want to share their view of Britishness.
It's an important thing maybe to think of, when we are so confused as a country about immigration and how much is right for us.
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Re: Racism

Post by biglin on Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:18 pm

The whole question of racial and national identity is very much a live issue for me.

I'm a mixed-race person with a Roma (gypsy) mother and a father from Northern Ireland.

I've also married a white English person even though my own skin is so dark I've often been confused with being a Turk or Pakistani.

My Dad is an Ulster Prod so he regards himself aS British though also Irish. My Mum like me was born in England.

I call myself British but also English and I'm also a proud Roma (even though I'm a posh-rat - a halfbreed).

So all in all it's not surprising that on some forums I've been called all kinds of things!

But I very much believe that multiculturalism has to be a two-way street. I've raised my kids to speak Romanes and to learn our ways but also obviously to speak English and to follow the English ways.

And I think part of the problem on both sides is a) ignorance; b) unwillingness to adapt.

Once you can overcome those prejudices things tend to turn out better.

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Re: Racism

Post by boatlady on Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:24 pm

Yes, that about sums it up for me
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Re: Racism

Post by bobby on Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:03 pm

Channel Tunnel Collapses. Europe Isolated!!!
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Re: Racism

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Aug 27, 2015 11:17 am

bobby wrote:Channel Tunnel Collapses. Europe Isolated!!!

UKIP Heaven.
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Re: Racism

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:00 am

Racist attitudes are as old as the (ahem) Human Race. The Holy Bible is crammed with references, and today's news is of a Labour MP suspended from the party whip for a remark made before she was elected. Commentary about Israel as a state is almost impossible without accusations of anti-Semitism being levelled, whilst the acts of terrorism inherent in the creation of Israel in 1948 are neatly side-stepped.

Apparently a different subject, but actually the same one is our current in-or-out debate on British membership of the EU. All the pronouncements are about Economics and Business, but the hidden agenda is Racism, and I believe that is what will truly motivate the majority of voters in the June referendum, whether anyone is prepared to admit it or not.



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Re: Racism

Post by boatlady on Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:31 pm

Sadly, after following various aspects of the debate on Facebook (which surely represents the lowest common denominator) I think you are right - god help us all
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Racism and anti-semitism

Post by sickchip on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:38 am

What was all that about yesterday?

I thought Ken Livingstone was foolish, trying to be a clever clogs, and, as he is prone to do, attention seeking and courting controversy. He should know better, and should put the party before his own vanity. However I don't believe he's anti-Semitic; but he should have kept his mouth shut.

John Mann behaved disgracefully, and clearly this was just an attempt to land a blow against Corbyn as Mann and others clearly wish for a coup that would oust Corbyn.

We now have the press/media associating Labour with anti-Semitism. A bizarre notion....but damaging?

What do others think?
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Re: Racism

Post by witchfinder on Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:46 am

A few months ago Ken Livingstone made a comment on Question Time that "the 7/7 terror attacks were the fault of Tony Blair", which apart from showing the very deep and bitter divide in the Labour Party, it also showed that someone like Livingstone can get away with making such vile comments, virtually no one batted an eyelid, its also a sad reflection on what the Labour Party has become, and is becoming.

Another sad reflection on the very sorry state of the Labour Party is the petition which has emerged today criticising John Mann MP, and astoninshingly DEFENDING Ken Livingstone, I wonder whether it is now Labour Party policy to continually keep shooting themselves in the foot.

Catch-22 - The present leadership and direction carries widespread support amongst members and affiliates, but ensures eternal Tory rule ( which is the sole reason I am bitter ), Mr Corbyn was fairly and democratically elected, but he will never be Prime Minister.

There Are None So Blind
As Those Who Will Not See
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Re: Racism

Post by Phil Hornby on Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:08 pm

"...I wonder whether it is now Labour Party policy to continually keep shooting themselves in the foot."

I share your pain , witchfinder.

But I wouldn't worry about the Party aiming for its own foot - it's sure to miss... Shocked
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Re: Racism

Post by Penderyn on Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:31 pm

Mr Livingstone said nothing whatever that was anti-Semitic. If this is a Zionist party it should go to 'Israel', and if the careerists want to destroy it I think we had better leave them to it and start again . I am an atheist when it comes to Murdoch-and-Netenyahu worship.
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Re: Racism

Post by boatlady on Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:41 am

I do think, however, that Mr Corbyn seems to be handling the issue in a very calm and appropriate manner - suspension followed by a full investigation may be inconvenient for all but in my experience is the only really effective way to defuse these factitious allegations.

Surely, there must be some adult way to discuss the profound contradictions that the existence of the Zionist state of Israel seems to encapsulate, and maybe the way to reach that may be to examine the facts. It seems to me that both Ken Livingstone and John Mann were at fault - Ken for once again shooting his mouth off and trying to be clever (bad timing) and John Mann for deliberately provoking a very public confrontation which tends to show the party in a very poor light - to my mind, both should have been suspended
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Re: Racism

Post by Ivan on Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:12 am

witchfinder wrote:-
There Are None So Blind
As Those Who Will Not See
What’s that supposed to mean? Are you trying to claim that you’re the fount of all wisdom? As for telling us that Corbyn will never become PM, you know that for a fact do you? With the Tories tearing themselves apart over the EU and never very far away from corruption and sleaze, you claim to know what 45 million voters will decide in four years from now. It’s just that your predictions haven’t always been very reliable………..

It is already widely accepted that the result will not be good in Oldham, indeed some feel the party may even lose the seat.
How did that work out?  Rolling Eyes

No doubt you and others will again start up on Corbyn if Thursday’s council elections don’t show sweeping gains for Labour. They won’t, because the last time they were fought Labour did well.

You say you accept that Corbyn was elected fairly, yet on 30 November on another thread you told us that you hoped “someone would stick the knife in” his leadership. And you’ve told us previously that you’ve now left the party, and would even consider campaigning against it. You’ve decreed that socialism is dead, when with a million people using foodbanks, child poverty and homelessness drastically increasing, there hasn’t been a greater need for it for at least forty years. If there’s any “shooting in the foot” taking place, it’s being done by people like you and MPs who continue to undermine the party leadership at every opportunity instead of concentrating their fire on the Tories. If Labour does lose the next election, it will be at least partly because its right-wing MPs have shown disloyalty and created an image of disunity.

Instead of repeating the same stale, hackneyed and seriously flawed claptrap, why don’t you ask yourself some questions? Why do you think that something which Naz Shah posted on Facebook in 2014, before she was an MP, should surface just a few days before the council elections? Why have the BBC and the Tory press made such a meal out of it – just like they didn’t over Oliver Letwin’s historic racist remarks ("white people don't riot" and "black people have bad moral attitudes”), Boris Johnson’s “picaninnies with water melon smiles” and attack on “half-Kenyan” Obama, or Goldsmith’s racist campaign in London? Why haven’t those three been suspended from the Tory Party? Aidan Burley was a Tory MP between 2010 and 2015. He organised a Nazi-themed stag party in the French Alps and was photographed dressed as a Nazi and doing the usual salute. I don’t recall him being suspended. You should be praising the Labour Party for having much higher standards than the Tories, not putting the boot in because you didn’t get your choice of leader.

I think Ken Livingstone was a far better London mayor than the odious Boris Johnson, but he was suspended from office for four weeks in 2006 for comparing a Jewish journalist who was harassing him to a concentration camp guard. He’s certainly not one of my favourite politicians, but do spare us the faux outrage over his remarks about 7/7. By taking us into a war in 2003 which was nothing to do with us, Blair made us more of a target to Islamic terrorists. The leader of the 7/7 bombers certainly said they acted out of grievance. Mohammad Sidique Khan recorded a video in which he said: “Your democratically elected governments continuously perpetuate atrocities against my people all over the world. And your support of them makes you directly responsible”. Paul Eedle has written: “There is a consistent pattern of political violence in the name of Islam against two types of target: foreign powers intervening militarily or politically in Muslim-majority lands, and local Muslim rulers viewed as illegitimate or unjust”.

http://www.megastories.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=152:radicalisation&catid=36:otnblog&Itemid=2

A little research reveals that Livingstone was certainly correct in one respect: the Haavara Agreement was signed by Hitler and Zionist German Jews on 25 August 1933. It was designed to help facilitate the emigration of German Jews to Palestine, but it forced them to temporarily give up possessions to Germany before departing. Those possessions could later be re-obtained by transferring them to Palestine as German export goods.

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/04/28/livingstone-vindicated-there-was-a-nazi-zionist-agreement-and-hitler-did-support-it/

If you criticise the governments of Saudi Arabia or Iran, it doesn’t make you an Islamophobe, though doubtless some people who do so are. Similarly, if you attack the actions of Netanyahu’s extreme right-wing government in Israel, it doesn’t mean that you are anti-semitic. The Holocaust was probably the worst atrocity ever committed in the history of the world, but that doesn't give the current Israeli government immunity from criticism. Livingstone believes passionately that the Palestinians have been treated abominably by the Israelis (it could have been so different in the early 1990s when Yitzhak Rabin was Israeli PM and signed the Oslo Accords), but when you step into the minefield of Arab-Israeli politics, you need to tread very carefully. For not doing so, Livingstone deserves censure. And so does John Mann for his bullying behaviour and for inflaming the situation.
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Re: Racism

Post by Ivan on Mon May 02, 2016 11:08 pm

Zac Goldsmith deserves to lose the mayoral race – and be put out to pasture

From an article by Suzanne Moore:-

"Zac Goldsmith’s mayoral campaign is not about coded, inaudible or even subtle signals to targeted groups. It is roaringly racist and ever more desperate. Over the weekend, Goldsmith’s mission to link Sadiq Khan with terrorism continued in a column that was illustrated by a picture of a bus destroyed in the 7/7 attacks, and the shock it prompted was real; real enough for some of Goldsmith’s fellow Conservatives, including Sayeeda Warsi, to express their dismay.

Goldsmith, a man who displays a mannered listlessness in lieu of charisma, was content for a while to be portrayed as someone who was somehow having racist tactics forced upon him, but repeatedly connecting Khan with danger and terror is now Goldsmith’s core message. Diffidently he talks about housing or transport, but mostly it comes to this: a repulsive campaign that links a Muslim politician – who has actually had a fatwa declared against him, and faced death threats as a result of his support for equal marriage – to fundamentalists. His campaign has been a clumsy and embarrassing effort to target people on the basis of their presumed ethnicity.

All of this is going on as Labour is engulfed in its own row about antisemitism. Goldsmith can now frighten the voters by suggesting that somehow Khan will let Livingstone back in. Livingstone must surely be put out to pasture, and so too should Goldsmith, no longer a cipher of a dim but nice sort, but a shallow opportunist willing to stir racial tension. Public life can do without these dregs; London is bigger and better than this and deserves so much more.
"

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/02/zac-goldsmith-mayoral-campaign-london-shallow-opportunist
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Re: Racism

Post by Ivan on Sat May 07, 2016 11:41 pm

Forgive and forget Zac Goldsmith’s racist campaign? No chance

From an article by Owen Jones:-

"Zac Goldsmith has lost, his reputation ruined, a political disgrace consigned to the history books. He could have capitalised on his reputation as a liberally minded, eco-friendly Tory, crossing partisan divides. Initial polls suggested he had a chance, and the cheerleaders for Tessa Jowell, the Blairite candidate in Labour’s selection race, wrongly suggested that Sadiq Khan was unelectable. Instead, Goldsmith waged a campaign soaked in racism, in one of the most ethnically diverse cities on Earth, shamelessly exploiting anti-Muslim prejudices.

Khan is a progressive Muslim who received death threats for voting for equal marriage, unlike most of Goldsmith’s parliamentary colleagues. His eclectic campaign team includes gay men and Jewish women. London was offered a campaign of fear, smear and bigotry. And London overwhelmingly told it where to go.

After a decisive electoral victory, there is always the temptation to be gracious to the defeated. Not this time. A candidate exploited and incited prejudice and hate. He undermined community cohesion. He indicated to young Muslims that there was no point engaging in the democratic process, because even the most progressive Muslim would be treated as aiding and abetting extremists.

Wherever Goldsmith now goes, he should be met with protests, regarded as persona non grata among an already reviled political elite. When politicians are accused of 'doing a Zac', they may end up complaining on account of the gravity of the slur. If Goldsmith does not suffer these consequences, politicians may wage these campaigns of fear over and over again.
"

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/07/zac-goldsmith-racist-campaign-london
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Re: Racism

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:29 am

English newspapers today seem united in criticising Sir Philip Green following the report of a Parliamentary Committee concerning the now-failed BHS.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/photos/what-the-papers-say-a-look-at-todays-front-pages/ss-BBufa43?li=BBoPU0R&ocid=iehp

Supposing that the Leader of the Labour Party were to express similar views, would such criticism then suddenly become classed as anti-semitic, I wonder, going by previous experience?



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Re: Racism

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