Falklands mark II

by keenobserver1 Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:43 pm

First topic message reminder :

A South American trading bloc has agreed to close its ports to ships flying the Falkland Islands flag.

Mercosur, which includes Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay, came to the decision at a summit in the Uruguayan capital, Montevideo.

Looks like this could become quite interesting!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16286134

by oftenwrong Thu Jan 19, 2012 11:16 am

"The Australian navy plans to recruit up to 1,000 Royal Navy sailors facing redundancy under the Government’s defence cuts."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/8979283/Australian-Navy-eyes-British-sailors-facing-axe-in-defence-cuts.html

by ROB Thu Jan 19, 2012 1:34 pm

I sure wish y'all's Queen had already been constructed and commissioned.

by keenobserver1 Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:28 pm

witchfinder wrote:

If the Argentinians were to sucessfuly launch an invasion, then it would be virtualy impossible for Britain to retake the islands, my guess, and I bet I am not wrong, is that as we speak, extra manpower, hardware and equipment is quietly been prepared for the long journey south.

I don't think you will be proved wrong on that.

by oftenwrong Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:38 pm

Save the penguins! Write to your MP.

by keenobserver1 Thu Jan 19, 2012 5:47 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Save the penguins! Write to your MP.

You seem to have a bit of a thing for Penguin's OW?

We have some at Edinburgh Zoo that you could visit.

by **Phil Hornby** Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:13 pm

The unfeeling lack of sympathy for the Kit Kat is of considerable concern to some of us...

by keenobserver1 Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:27 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:The unfeeling lack of sympathy for the Kit Kat is of considerable concern to some of us...

If you are looking for sympathy it's in the dictionary; somewhere between shit and syphilis!

Never you down as a Kat lover Hornby!

by keenobserver1 Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:27 pm

Argentina outraged at Cameron's 'colonialism' remarks

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16625963

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16624957

by oftenwrong Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:40 pm

You seem to have a bit of a thing for Penguin's OW?

We have some at Edinburgh Zoo that you could visit..
keenobserver1

Not as many as you'll find in The Falklands though. They must be the ones referred to in Cameron's speech, " Commemorations in Britain to mark the 30th anniversary of the Falkland Islands conflict later this year will send a 'strong message' to Argentina that London will continue to defend the islanders' right to self-determination, Prime Minister David Cameron said Wednesday. "

Most of the other "Islanders" were born somewhere else.

by keenobserver1 Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:02 pm

oftenwrong wrote:[i]

Most of the other "Islanders" were born somewhere else.

So were most Londoners!

by **Phil Hornby** Thu Jan 19, 2012 8:06 pm

Quote : " Never you down as a Kat lover Hornby!"

Whereas I did have you down as a chap who would succeed in missing out a vital word in a posting, Knobby...! Smile

by Stox 16 Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:39 am

witchfinder wrote:The Argentine government have managed to persuade other neighbouring countries to ban any ship or vessel from entering their ports flying the Falkland Islands flag.

Recently HMS Protector, an ice patrol vessel, stopped off at Montevideo on route to the Falkland Islands, several local newspapers displayed front page pictures of Protector which prompting calls for Royal Navy ships to be banned from Uruguay, but navy ships do not display Falkland Island flags, they fly the British white ensign instead.

The only way to defeat the Argentinians is not to let them onto the islands in the first place, the number 1 priority is defence, the number 2 priority is defence.

There is one very big difference between 1982 and 2012, and that is the Mount Pleasant Airport on the islands which is capable of handling any kind of aircraft, whoever controls this facillity controls the islands.

If the Argentinians were to sucessfuly launch an invasion, then it would be virtualy impossible for Britain to retake the islands, my guess, and I bet I am not wrong, is that as we speak, extra manpower, hardware and equipment is quietly been prepared for the long journey south.

I cannot agree more about the Mount pleasant airport. I cannot see any attack on the islands taking place while there is a R.A.F base there. as unlike 1982 we could have more fixed winged aircraft there within 48hrs now.

by **astradt1** Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:42 am

Is Camoron using the Falkland Island as a distraction from the state of the economy and the failure of Gideons efforts to cut spending?

It seems that more and more of the news program time is being taken up with the Falklands..........

by oftenwrong Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:25 am

"Is Camoron using the Falkland Island as a distraction ....?"

Yes, and the Eurozone's problems, and The Olympics, and another train-set, and a Royal Yacht, and a new Airport in a Bird-sanctuary, and a Press investigation, and a Torture investigation, plus a small thankyou to China for buying Thames Water.

by ROB Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:53 pm

Until y'al get your Queen, borrow one of these bad rasa-ma-tangas" if you "want to"; we won't mind.

by keenobserver1 Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:10 am

Argentines stage Falklands protest outside UK embassy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-16663290

by oftenwrong Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:46 am

Rent-a-mob still in business, apparently.

by keenobserver1 Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:20 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Rent-a-mob still in business, apparently.

But who rented them?

by Stox 16 Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:01 am

astradt1 wrote:Is Camoron using the Falkland Island as a distraction from the state of the economy and the failure of Gideons efforts to cut spending?

It seems that more and more of the news program time is being taken up with the Falklands..........

Astradt
its funny you should say this. as its crossed my mind too, that he is using this to cover up Gideon failures. let face it. We can fly fix wing fighters to the Falklands within 48 hour and faster than they could cross the sea to the Falklands. I know this as my mates son is in the RAF and was there last year. all this just does not add up too me at all

by Stox 16 Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:03 am

oftenwrong wrote:"Is Camoron using the Falkland Island as a distraction ....?"

Yes, and the Eurozone's problems, and The Olympics, and another train-set, and a Royal Yacht, and a new Airport in a Bird-sanctuary, and a Press investigation, and a Torture investigation, plus a small thankyou to China for buying Thames Water.

a very fine summary I must say Oftenwrong. Hats off to you

by oftenwrong Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:00 pm

Gracious thanks, but I forgot to include the Tory plans for the NHS which seem to have gone curiously nebulous. All the running for revisions is being made by Andrew Lansley. Himself. Alone. The PM remains aloof, merely uttering words of praise for the service he personally encountered, but leaving Andrew as the only one whose head is above the parapet.

Meanwhile the NHS professionals' support for radical change is dwindling with each day's passing.

Will we be seeing yet another U-turn on NHS Reform before long?

Back on the Falklands topic, Argentine threats are probably for home consumption, but the reality is that if a military taskforce were somehow to gain control of the Mount Pleasant airport we could not possibly mount an effective counter-offensive.

by witchfinder Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:05 pm

Work is about to begin on an airport on the island of Saint Helena in the south atlantic, for the first time the islands 5000 population will have direct access to the rest of the world without having to rely on ships.

This development could prove to be significant for the security of the Falkland Islands, when finished the new airport will be the nearest airport on British soil to the Falkland Islands, been 800 miles closer than Ascension Island, though obviously still some distance away.

by oftenwrong Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:39 pm

That brings to my warped imagination a mental picture of those Laboratories where operatives have their hands inside electronic gloves which in turn manipulate enormous vats of steaming something at a safe distance.

War by misunderstanding becomes ever more likely. One of Britain's nuclear submarines has the potential ability to remove an area the size of the Falklands permanently and forever from the map. Not that they would, of course, but it is not ONLY Britain which possesses such weapons.

by Stox 16 Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:03 am

witchfinder wrote:Work is about to begin on an airport on the island of Saint Helena in the south atlantic, for the first time the islands 5000 population will have direct access to the rest of the world without having to rely on ships.

This development could prove to be significant for the security of the Falkland Islands, when finished the new airport will be the nearest airport on British soil to the Falkland Islands, been 800 miles closer than Ascension Island, though obviously still some distance away.

Witchy
How very true. just cannot believe that there will be any attack on the Falkland Islands myself. the timing of this in the News is however.. most interesting.

Argentina's economy expanded by a blistering 9.2 percent last year, driven by strong consumer spending, high global prices for its grains exports and growing demand for manufactured goods in neighboring Brazil.

The center-left government of President Cristina Fernandez places a higher priority on economic growth than tackling surging consumer prices, but some economic analysts say expansive fiscal and monetary policies are stoking inflation and could undermine the sustainability of longer-term growth.

Below are facts about Argentina's economy, financial markets and politics:

ECONOMIC GROWTH

Argentina, Latin America's No. 3 economy, grew at one of the region's fastest rates in 2010, although some economists say widely questioned official data overstates growth.

With the exception of 0.9 percent growth in 2009, Argentina has posted strong annual growth since Nestor Kirchner, Fernandez's late husband and predecessor as president, took office in 2003 following the 2001-2002 economic crisis.

An agricultural powerhouse, Argentina is the world's top supplier of soyoil and soymeal, and the No. 2 exporter of corn.

Soy exports rose to nearly $20 billion last year, representing more than a quarter of total export earnings.

The auto industry has driven surging factory output in recent years and car production surged 41 percent in 2010, according to trade industry association data.

Would you risk your economy to fight over the Falklands? I think not myself

by **astradt1** Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:30 pm

Camoron, sorry the MOD has announced it is sending it's newest Type 45 Destroyer hms Dauntless to the 'South Atlantic'.

There must be some very worrying news, for the government, due to come out if Camoron needs to keep the British public focused on the Falklands

by oftenwrong Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:28 pm

Another example of the current "Politics of Distraction".
That we used to call "spin".

by bobby Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:14 pm

MSN News

Britain has dismissed claims that it was "militarising" the Falklands dispute by deploying nuclear weapons nearby.

Argentina said it had intelligence that a Vanguard submarine had been sent to the area, and demanded to know whether it was carrying warheads.

"Thus far the UK refuses to say whether it is true or not," foreign minister Hector Timerman told a press conference. "Are there nuclear weapons or are there not? The information Argentina has is that there are these nuclear weapons."

The accusation, made through a translator, came as Mr Timerman urged the United Nations to intervene in the long-running row over the islands.

He said Britain was using an "unjustified defence of self-determination" to maintain a military base on the Falklands, which allowed it to dominate the Atlantic. "It is perhaps the last refuge of a declining empire," he told journalists in New York. "It is perhaps the last ocean that is controlled by the UK."

He said Britain had been "colonialist throughout (her) history", and should now follow the advice of Beatles legend John Lennon and "give peace a chance".

At a separate press conference immediately afterwards, Britain's ambassador to the UN, Sir Mark Lyall Grant said the Government did "not comment on the disposition of nuclear weapons, submarines etc". But he branded the idea that the UK was "militarising" the situation "manifestly absurd".

Sir Mark said the UK had been in the Falklands since before Argentina existed, and the islanders were entitled to self-determination under the UN charter. "Before 1982 there was a minimal defence presence in the Falkland Islands," he said. "It is only because Argentina illegally invaded the Falkland Islands in 1982 that since then we had to increase our defence posture. Nothing has changed in that defence posture in recent months or recent years."

Tensions between the two nations have been growing over recent months, with David Cameron and Argentine president Cristina Kirchner trading barbs.

The UK has insisted that the deployment of one of its most modern destroyers, HMS Dauntless, to the region is merely routine. The Duke of Cambridge's arrival in the Falklands for a posting as as an RAF search and rescue pilot has further infuriated Buenos Aires.

I find it incredible that Herr Cameron is even bothering to talk to Argentina over the Falklands. When they open their cowardly mouths, he should simply ignore them.

Why are the Argentineans so bothered about us having Nuclear weapons in the area, why are they so concerned that we are sending our latest destroyer out there. It can be for no other reason, that their desires for the Islands are getting stronger, so what should we do, remove the defence force from the Falklands, knowing it will be extremely difficult and costly in UK lives (I don’t give a shit for the Argentineans that get done), and Herr Cameron will claim in cash as well.

Mr Timmerman also said we should follow what John Lennon said and “give peace a chance” well that wont be possible till they either win back the Islands by a feat of arms, or they just give up their false claim to there ownership.

All they want us to do is, to remove any defence forces so that they can move in unmolested, so I say we should either give them the Islands Tomorrow, or sent whatever is needed to defend them.

As for them knowing we have nuclear armed subs out there, How would they know that, most of the Royal Navy Bosses wont be privileged to that sort of information. Anyway when did we ever have to ask them what we can and can not send to the British Falkland Islands.

Personally I don’t give a shit for the place, but many brave men have already given their lives to defend them, so their sacrifice should be honoured 100%.

by ROB Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:42 pm

bobby wrote:
Argentina said it had intelligence that a Vanguard submarine had been sent to the area, and demanded to know whether it was carrying warheads.

Good luck with that demand c**p, Argentina. Why in hell do you think that the submarine service is called The Silent Service?

By the by, Argentina, one Vanguard class submarine carries enough Trident power to render your country obsolete and extinct. Given your exemplary record of concealing Nazi beasts, if it happens due to your next attempt to steal what “belong-a-Falklanders”, I won’t cry for you, Argentina.

bobby wrote:
When they open their cowardly mouths, he should simply ignore them.

I agree. One doesn’t talk to bullies, one ignores them until they touch one’s body and/or one’s property.

Then one knocks their cowardly asses out.

by oftenwrong Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:30 pm

I suspect that this war of words suits the (different but similar) purposes of both Kirchner and Cameron.

Each is pleased to have a distraction from domestic problems.

by **astradt1** Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:10 pm

Quite right OW the only trouble many have been taken in by Camoron's 'Tough Talk' and have taken their eye of the main issues facing this ConDum Government..........

Even some on this board...........

by bobby Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:56 pm

asrtadt1. Are you saying that we shouldnt discuss matters like the Falklands, while their are other matters pending. I dont know about you but I can walk, fart and whistle all at the same time, so i'm sure if we are facing more than one problem, my addressing it on an open forum will not make one iota of difference. Had I ignorred the other pressing matters, then I would agree with you.

Herr Cameron will never take me in.

by **astradt1** Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:20 pm

I just think Camoron is using this issue to his own ends,,,

How many ships are registered to the Falkland Island?

This all started with Argentina banning Ships flying the Falklands Island Flag...and Camoron has just talked it up since then, stirring up Thatcher like jingosim in the hope that no one will notice the 'Bad News' which seems to becoming out daily at the moment..........

Like the latest about the cuts to working tax credits where recipiants will from April have to work 24 hours a week in order to be able to claim them....

But then again Camoron needs that money to pay for the Military build up of the Falklands......

by bobby Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:33 am

astradt1 wrote "This all started with Argentina banning Ships flying the Falklands Island Flag...and Camoron has just talked it up since then, stirring up Thatcher like jingosim in the hope that no one will notice the 'Bad News' which seems to becoming out daily at the moment.........."

My very point, irrespective of Herr Camerons jingoism over the Falklands. the rest of the "bad news" is still coming out.

by witchfinder Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:35 pm

One possible way around the situation is for the Falkland Islanders to have a referendum on independence from the United Kingdom, and if a majority wish to be independent then this would completely change the legal landscape.

Most of the inhabitants of the Islands have been there for generations, the largest ethnic groups are Welsh and Scottish, other ethnic groups include Gibraltarians, Portugese, Scandanavian and Chilean.

Ime no expert but independence, particularly if overseen by the UN would virtualy end the Argentine claim on the islands, self determination is one of the most fundamental principles of the United Nations.

The way of life need not change, the islands could become a realm similar to New Zealand or Canada whereby Queen Elizabeth remains head of state, and the islands could become a "protectorate" of either the United Kingdom, NATO or the Commonwealth.

by oftenwrong Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:29 pm

".. the Falkland Islanders"

First define who precisely is included in the above description. Numerically, the entire population of three thousand souls totals fewer than the Winter inhabitants of a Dorset coastal resort.

Deduct the number of MILITARY personnel and you could fit all of them inside any major English church. The number of "Falklanders" who were actually born there is less than a third of "natives".

The Falkland Islands are part of the UK, but there is no automatic right for British visitors to settle there and overseas citizens may not purchase land without showing they are going to be able to support themselves and get a licence.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6683677.stm

by bobby Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:54 pm

keenobserver. I'm not quite with you, surely to be a Londoner you have to come from London, or you are something else. So how could most Londoners have been born elsewhere.

by witchfinder Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:52 pm

THe estimate (2007) population of just over 3,000 people on the Falkland Islands does not include any military personel.

A citizen of the Falkland Islands is either (1) a British Overseas Territory Citizen, or (2) a British Citizen.

And the odd thing is, that since 2002 a Citizen of a British Overseas Territory is automaticly a full citizen of the United Kingdom, and prior to 2002 this applied only to citizens of Gibraltar and the Falkland Islands.

Got that ?

Effectively, if you are from the Falkland Islands by birth, or you have gained BOTC ( British Overseas Territory Citizenship ) through other legal means by settling and living on the islands, then you are a Falkland Islander.

Whatever the legal status of people who live there, it should be their right to choose haw they live, and no one has any right to force a different culture upon them.

by oftenwrong Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:15 pm

None of which explains why anybody wants to live in a place described as, "Like Scotland, but without the nice weather."

Maintaining Britain's link with The Falklands costs a million pounds a week.

Does anyone feel inclined to produce a Cost/Benefit analysis?

by Stox 16 Wed Feb 29, 2012 5:05 am

oftenwrong wrote:None of which explains why anybody wants to live in a place described as, "Like Scotland, but without the nice weather."

Maintaining Britain's link with The Falklands costs a million pounds a week.

Does anyone feel inclined to produce a Cost/Benefit analysis?

Oil is the main reason....lots of OIL....

by ROB Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:05 am

Brits have little understanding of how your willingness to stand up for the Falkland Islanders' inalienable right to self-determination positively affects persons outside the UK. Please continue to stand for what's right.

by Shirina Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:01 am

Good luck with that demand c**p, Argentina. Why in hell do you think that the submarine service is called The Silent Service?

HAHA! I was thinking the exact same thing when I read the original "demand" from Argentina. The whole point of putting nukes on a submarine is so no one knows where they are! Otherwise you can just carry them around on a much cheaper destroyer or frigate and have them watched 24/7 via satellite. Not that Argentina has spy satellites, but other nations do, and some of those nations would just love to turn over satellite data to Argentina if it meant getting at the West.

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