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Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

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Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by Stox 16 on Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:45 am

Social Mobility is a key concern for many political people nowadays, especially for the right wingers, yet there has been a sort of realisation that has very slowly dawned on them that the free market liberalisation they have unleashed over the last 30 years has not produced the fluid, meritocratic societies they hoped for back in the 1980s. Do you believe that this obsession the right wing has with social Engineering of society and meritocratic societies can ever really work? For me, the Right wing has been running a campaign to change society into a society of the greedy free market individualist. as its much more easy'er for them to remain in control if it brakes up society individual and turn us into a dog eat dog society. something I have hated all my life. as to me Humans are not good or at the best as individuals, as we are a pack animals and just do not work well as the lone wolf. How do you see this? are we social mobility individuals as the right wish to turn us all into? or are we really just not that interested and are happy working at times as a team?
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:56 am

The Right wing obsession is with excluding us all, if we don't share their views.
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by Guest on Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:48 pm


A “new” socio-economic “model”: Three socio-classes; upper, working, and lower.

Upper class people are “old money”; thus, among the socio-upper class, all are “moneyed”, as money and its perks are birthrights.

Lower class people are routinely poor, partly by birth (initial poorness) and partly by choice (embracing a poorness lifestyle). The domino players I spoke of on another thread are lower class, choosing to remain unemployed and poor rather than join the ranks of those working or seeking work.

Working class people are poor, doing okay, and rich, depending on how financially successful their work has been. The unemployed, broke fellow who shows up at the union hall every day seeking work and the broke day laborers who congregate on certain street corners every morning at the break of dawn are working class (socio) poor (economic), while Bill Gates, who earned the fifty plus billion he is now worth by working (thinking is working) is working class (socio) rich (economic).

In my opinion, both upper and lower class people are a drain on society, feeling somehow entitled to stuff through no “fault” or effort, of their own. Lower class people will quickly claim benefits from programs to which they have chosen to contribute not one thin dime, while upper class people will quickly claim benefits from estates, bank accounts, and other private financial holdings to which they have been called upon to contribute not one thin dime.

Upper class people in America are often the children and grandchildren of working class, rich, for instance, those inane sisters whose first and last names all begin with “K” are upper class children, “entitled” to the money and the perks, living on the considerable dimes earned by their father.

From what I’ve seen of landed, titled gentry across the pond, they differ from the “Double-K” sisters only in the accents heard as the y claim the unearned dimes to which they feel entitled. Number one on the list, at the head of the cavalcade of clowns, and this is just my opinion, is that worthless heir to the crown. Thank God his mother seems determined to out-reign Victoria, if she hasn’t already done so. It’s sixty years and counting, if my arithmetic is correct.

I believe the UK will benefit if upper class snobs are dis-entitled as much as possible within the boundaries of respecting and maintaining inalienable rights. I understand, for instance, the concept of the House of Lords, but I do not understand its membership. Why all the buffoons? Why not strip the pretenders of their House of Lords status and replace them with wise persons who can actually provide wise counsel? Seems lime a no-brainer to me.
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:56 pm

Fascism develops as you get older. Like so many other tastes for the illicit.
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by Stox 16 on Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:03 am

oftenwrong wrote:The Right wing obsession is with excluding us all, if we don't share their views.

How very well put oftenwrong
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by siddyg on Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:17 am

Its obvious that you three gentleman are very clever with overgrown brains.
 
I just wonder what is wrong with the "right wing" obsession of trying to improve yourself from both  the "Socio" and "economic" perspective.
 
I personally left school with no formal quailifications and was dragged up within a single parent family environment, if it wasnt for the fact that i was a teenager in the early - mid 80's and subject to a conservative right wing government i may not have had the self improvement and social mobility mantra of the time drummed into me.
 
And in turn i would probably not have been as successful in life as i have been ( Modestly successful all things considered )
 
I remember the blokes who were older than me by 5 or 6 years being into sniffing glue and claiming the dole and also being scruffy and spotty. Whereas my generation wanted to be smart and flash and was all about hair gel and image, we progressed from Skins/Mods to casuals etc etc.
 
I am not a great thinker, but i think the left wing politicians, who are quite often landed gentry, like to be able to think for people, and for there to be a social underclass of poor down trodden people, that way they are almost guaranteed a vote...
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by astra on Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:13 pm

who are quite often landed gentry,


Can't be many of them!!

Sir Stafford Cripps, he was a loooong time ago

Lord Stansgate - Tony Wedgewood Ben


can't think of any more?
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by siddyg on Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:40 pm

Apologies, being dragged up on a council estate in London, Landed Gentry to me was someone with a front and back garden  Very Happy
 
I may be wrong, but when i was a kid i just equated thins politically as labour, being for the poor people, and all northeners. Tories for the rich and all southerners with posh accents.
 
Now all the Labour politicians seem to be as posh as their Tory counterparts.
 
I suppose i grew up in a time of scargill, and that strange looking fella Michael Foot.
 
For me, and its just a personal observation, i always got the impression that  labour or left wing politicians pretended to be the friends and advocates of the poor masses, but really were just buttering people up for a vote.
 
Where as the tories just never really liked us poorer people, full stop.
 
I know thats simplistic in the extreme, but its an honest reflection of how i saw politics as a teenager.
 
I also know that there have been politicians from all sides who have been decent and caring people.
 
I suppose my point is is that i never understood the lefts obsession with trying to keep us all in the same circumstances as we were born into, it seems almost obscene to some of them too wish to make a decent living financially  and provide your kids with some of the things you yourself could not have.
 
Although i shouldnt be, i have always considered myself a slightly right of centre Tory, however i hate the arrogance of Cameron and Osborne, Cameron just seems to have no connection with your common working man/woman.
 
I personally quite like Hague, seems like a nice fella, sensible and not so arrogant or Hoytee Toytee.
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by Penderyn on Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:58 pm

I don't want to be a money-hungry crook who thinks education is just a way to get more cash, and that the purpose of life is either to show off to the other crooks, have a bigger funeral or use money to dominate inheritance-hungry children. It has always been a mystery to me why I should be glad that one person born without money should replace some other person born with a little more. The point about capitalism is that it 'makes sense' because the mass of people are brought-up in the capitalist ideology ('brainwashed'). I notice that whenever some organisation becomes more 'efficient' it craps up any communications it has with me while making more money for some other people elsewhere, and I am told to rejoice about this. The key thing about the system is that the leaders kow-tow to anyone with power and money, however outdated and ludicrous their ideas (nowadays the yanks) and follow their sillinesses. And they accuse US of social engineering!
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by AwfulTruth on Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:30 pm

Thatcher has returned in another form post the political mortuary: that is why David Cameron is so extravagantly unoriginal; divisive; polarizing; elitist; bullying; boorish; idiotic; dishonest; double-dealing; deceptive; naive; stupid; morally repulsive; incompetent; inconsistent; repetitive; stonewalling; destructive; fiefdom-orientated; old-boy-networked; cowardly; abusive; offensive and finally: not fit for purpose toffee-nosed pretender!

Sorry but I JUST HAD TO GET THIS OFF MY CHEST FOLKS!!! bounce

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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:50 pm

That'll spoil his tea.
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by Phil Hornby on Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:55 pm

It's taken me about four years of posting to get that many adjectives into abusing Cameron.... Shocked
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by astradt1 on Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:16 pm

Has anyone noticed how the Tory's keep saying that the only way to get social mobility is to bring back Grammer Schools....

I still haven't worked why that should be the case....
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:30 pm

astradt1 wrote:Has anyone noticed how the Tory's keep saying that the only way to get social mobility is to bring back Grammer Schools....

I still haven't worked why that should be the case....

Do you think you could separate sheep from goats if you were asked to do so? Well of course you can, it's not rocket science is it?

First, devise some kind of test that provides a clear divide (where, doesn't matter so long as you want to identify which are sheep and which are goats, according to your preference). Insisting that Daddy must earn £100,000 p.a. or always vote Tory is a bit obvious! Select an exam for which the rich kids have been prepared, but which is completely foreign to hoi polloi.

Those you WANT to succeed will have no difficulty in passing, and so find places in a "Grammar School" which leads inevitably to University. As for the rest - do you really care?
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by astradt1 on Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:34 pm

Those you WANT to succeed will have no difficulty in passing, and so find places in a "Grammar School" which leads inevitably to University. As for the rest - do you really care?

Now that explains why University Tuition fee's have been set so high......
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:41 pm

As in so many other aspects of Life - you get what you can pay for.
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

Post by astradt1 on Sun Feb 05, 2012 7:45 pm

you get what you can pay for

But only when it comes to Top Peoples Pay.........
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Re: Social mobility and the right-wing obsession with changing us all

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