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The Tolpuddle Martyrs

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The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by Redflag on Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:08 pm

The Tolpuddle Martyrs were three agricultural workers that worked for the landed gentry (an earlier version of present gov't), they were transported to Austrailia in the 1830s for trying to form a trade Union to fight the pay cuts, where is that spirit today people are just allowing this gov't to treat them like mushrooms kept in the dark and fed shit.  It took the good people of the UK three years of fighting the gov't of the day  to get those three men brought back from Botany Bay Austrailia.
 
Tolpuddle has become a place of pilgrimage for trade Unionist not just from the UK, but from all over the world who visit the Martyrs pub and sit in the museum or next to the statues and soak in the quaint Dorset village which became the foundation stone of modern trade Unionists, something I reckon should shame our trade Unionist of today they seem to forget how to fight and stop its members from been shit on and walked all over by this gov't and the fatcat bosses.
 
The day that is set aside as Tolpuddle Martyrs Festival is from the 13th to the 15th of July every year, they are historians that tell the entire story of those three men and there fight and struggle to form what we know to be OUR TRADE UNIONS.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:25 pm

http://www.dorsetinfocus.co.uk/leisure/showevent.php?id=836
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by Redflag on Fri Jun 14, 2013 8:25 am

oftenwrong wrote:http://www.dorsetinfocus.co.uk/leisure/showevent.php?id=836


Thank you for that link OW
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by sickchip on Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:47 pm

The thing is, since the Tolpuddle martyrs there has been a lot of legislation that the present day unions HAVE to obey.......this new legislation has been created by the very people who are interested in weakening workers rights and wages - so understandably the unions HAVE to abide by these rules. If the Tolpuddle martyrs, and other founders of unions that fought to improve the rights, wages, and conditions of workers, had been subject to present day rules there is no doubt they would have had to be as obedient as present day unions - and give ample notice for even a one day strike. 

Shut up and do as you're told.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by sickchip on Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:54 pm

Years ago I started a thread on MSN calling for a general strike. It was widely derided by both labour and tory supporters at the time. I warned that if it didn't happen and people didn't fight to  reduce levels of inequality things would continue to get worse. Suck it up.

.....as you were.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by sickchip on Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:56 pm

The truth is the present day british working classes are effing pathetic.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:21 pm

The tory-led coalition is aching for a show of militancy this summer.  A task-force of riot Police has been equipped with three new water-cannon imported from Germany, and Cameron has a speech prepared to condemn unlawful protest.

Go on!  Make his day.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by sickchip on Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:41 am

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/16/britain-needs-a-revolution

Some of us are asking the same questions of ourselves in 2013: why, in the face of so much inequality, corporate dishonesty, police brutality and political corruption, do we simply grumble and stage good-natured and orderly marches, with multigrain sandwiches and infants in prams? Why do we continue to be bought off with endless royal jubilees, worthless Olympiads and the creeping militarisation of a country whose soldiers are treated like heroes for fighting wars against developing world nations?
More events last week – some big and national, some small and local – have illustrated how deep the roots of social inequality go in this country.Stephen Hester, the chief executive of RBS, was the latest banker to walk away with a financial package massively in excess of what he achieved. In effect, this chap was given a £6m bonus simply for collecting those insidious and corrupt bank charges the government allows them to impose.


While this was being announced, the Institute for Fiscal Studies told us that British workers have endured pay cuts of around 6% in the last five years. This is a bigger salary reduction than in any previous five-year period and shows that as the strength of trade unionism has declined, management militancy has increased.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jun 16, 2013 12:26 pm


"Come on in - the water's fine!"
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by boatlady on Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:14 pm

I guess OW is right - a show of militancy would simply play into the hands of the government and might serve to appear to give further credence to the proposition that strong right wing policies aimed at suppressing working class rights are necessary.

I suspect the only way out is going to be via the ballot box, and personally, I do think Labour is going to be the only game in town for those who want to be rid of the coalition.

I didn't like everything the last Labour government did, but on the other hand I didn't like ANYTHING this government or the previous Conservative government did.

I guess, if I were the leader of the Labour party at the moment, I would be thinking with some trepidation that there's going to be a hell of a mess to clean up after the Bullingdon boys have gone, and I would be wanting to be a bit honest about the fact that lots of important and necessary stuff (the NHS, education, social care services) has been trashed - recovery will be slow and may not ever be complete.

I would perhaps also be wary of the fact that, in opposition, constantly bleating on about the faults and mistakes of the current administration can make a chap look a bit feeble and undignified, especially when most of the media seem to have a strong right-wing bias.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by Ivanhoe on Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:19 pm

boatlady, ""I didn't like everything the last Labour government did, but on the other hand I didn't like ANYTHING this government or the previous Conservative government did"".

We didnt have a Labour Government 1979- 1997.  We had a New Labour Government which embraced Thatcherism.

""I would perhaps also be wary of the fact that, in opposition, constantly bleating on about the faults and mistakes of the current administration can make a chap look a bit feeble and undignified, especially when most of the media seem to have a strong right-wing bias.""


No Government makes mistakes.  The have an agenda and they stick to it.  Any incompetence is within the British people who largely are neither politically minded, or politically motivated.


Ivanhoe.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by boatlady on Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:42 pm

Thanks for sharing your opinions, Ivanhoe.

I'm inclined to agree that maybe the current bunch have a hidden agenda - in fact it doesn't seem that well hidden.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by Ivanhoe on Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:50 pm

boatlady wrote:Thanks for sharing your opinions, Ivanhoe.

I'm inclined to agree that maybe the current bunch have a hidden agenda - in fact it doesn't seem that well hidden.

boatly, The Tory right wing since Margaret Thatcher have had just one agenda, to rid us of the role of the State and the welfare State.

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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by bobby on Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:24 pm

Ivanhoe wrote :  We didnt have a Labour Government 1979- 1997.  We had a New Labour Government which embraced Thatcherism.




I see you are still pedalling that old tripe New Labour where not Thatcherite. How could they have been. 1n 1997 they stood on a manifesto which was totally opposed to Thatcher/Major and their policies. Within the first political term 80% of New Labours Manifesto had been implemented by Tony Blair and co. Most of the remaining 20% also came in place mainly by a change in circumstances or they where no longer necessary. How on earth could that record be called Thatcherite by any other than by someone who knows not what they say (posh way of saying talks a load of bollocks).



The New Labour Party who you try to demonise at every opportunity, gave us over 10 years or unprecedented growth, they didn’t only give us the minimum wage, but also the Social Chapter which gave fair rights to employee’s, they invested heavily in Education and repaired the hundreds of collapsing school building left by the Tories, they reduced massively the hospital waiting lists whereby people had to wait in excess of 2 years for urgent cardiac treatment,. How could all that come about if they stuck to the policies of the previous Tory Government. With those and many more benefits to the workers of Britain, they also allowed business to flourish (what you foolishly call Thatcherism) in order to gain the taxes to pay for the above.



People say that the public has a short memory, well IMHO that is the case with you, you have bought the Tory line via the Murdoch and can not see the truth.



You in the past used to go on, and on and on and on about traditional Labour. Let me tell you, as good as they where IN THEIR DAY, those old out of date policies wouldn’t cut it in today’s world.



I personally think Tony Blair got it just about right, and if it wasn’t for Iraq and the American created Banking crisis, they would still be in power now, despite the likes of you doing your utmost to discredit them.



I hope that now Ed Miliband takes a few leaves out of Tony Blair’s book
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by boatlady on Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:31 pm

Well said, Bobby

Very Happy
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:48 pm

Some correspondents seem to be exercised not only by Political Parties but also include the entire human race as a target for their opprobrium.

Let us know if I've left anyone out, Ivanhoe.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by Ivanhoe on Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:50 pm

bobby wrote:Ivanhoe wrote :  We didnt have a Labour Government 1979- 1997.  We had a New Labour Government which embraced Thatcherism.




I see you are still pedalling that old tripe New Labour where not Thatcherite. How could they have been. 1n 1997 they stood on a manifesto which was totally opposed to Thatcher/Major and their policies. Within the first political term 80% of New Labours Manifesto had been implemented by Tony Blair and co. Most of the remaining 20% also came in place mainly by a change in circumstances or they where no longer necessary. How on earth could that record be called Thatcherite by any other than by someone who knows not what they say (posh way of saying talks a load of bollocks).



The New Labour Party who you try to demonise at every opportunity, gave us over 10 years or unprecedented growth, they didn’t only give us the minimum wage, but also the Social Chapter which gave fair rights to employee’s, they invested heavily in Education and repaired the hundreds of collapsing school building left by the Tories, they reduced massively the hospital waiting lists whereby people had to wait in excess of 2 years for urgent cardiac treatment,. How could all that come about if they stuck to the policies of the previous Tory Government. With those and many more benefits to the workers of Britain, they also allowed business to flourish (what you foolishly call Thatcherism) in order to gain the taxes to pay for the above.



People say that the public has a short memory, well IMHO that is the case with you, you have bought the Tory line via the Murdoch and can not see the truth.



You in the past used to go on, and on and on and on about traditional Labour. Let me tell you, as good as they where IN THEIR DAY, those old out of date policies wouldn’t cut it in today’s world.



I personally think Tony Blair got it just about right, and if it wasn’t for Iraq and the American created Banking crisis, they would still be in power now, despite the likes of you doing your utmost to discredit them.



I hope that now Ed Miliband takes a few leaves out of Tony Blair’s book

bobby, dream on.

Ivanhoe.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by Ivanhoe on Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:52 pm

boatlady wrote:Well said, Bobby


Well said, be damned.  New Labour was pure Thatcherism.

Ivanhoe
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by bobby on Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:27 pm

Ivanhoe wrote.   ."bobby dream on"

Ivanhoe.

A very well reasoned debate their my old Saxon friend. Perhaps instead of simply saying what your opinions are, you might try to gain a bit of credibility by enlightening us as to why you think as you do, instead of "bobby, dream on". Or is that all you have to say regarding your continued crap that New Labour where Thatcherite.
Could it be you are by your lack of political nouse, telling us why you failed in your attempt to become an MP, also could you inform we no nuffins what political party it was you where a failure with and when. Thanking you in anticipation..
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by boatlady on Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:26 pm

Once again, Ivanhoe, thanks for your opinions - maybe at some point you will be backing them up with some evidence?
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by Ivanhoe on Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:28 pm

boatlady wrote:Once again, Ivanhoe, thanks for your opinions - maybe at some point you will be backing them up with some evidence?

boatlady, where were you between 1979, until 2010 , Mars ?

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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by bobby on Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:52 pm

Ivanhoe wrote : boatlady,where were you between 1979, until 2010 , Mars ?.





I have read many of boatlady's posts, and at no time has she been anything other than polite, which is obviously not what we have become accustomed to from yourself, not only that boatlady also backs up her argument with a bit more than your childish "


By the way Ivanhoe (Fanciful Saxon Knight straight from someone’s imagination) I am still awaiting an answer Re: what party did you stand for when you lost your attempt to enter the House of Commons, and when was it.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by boatlady on Wed Jun 19, 2013 8:09 am

boatlady, where were you between 1979, until 2010 , Mars ?

As you ask, right here in England, observing some definite improvements to education and life chances for youngsters from poor families, reductions in NHS waiting times, improvements in the standard and quality of life for the less well-off, as provided by the minimum wage and Tax Credits.

There's no doubt in my mind that the war in Iraq was a monumental blunder, and continuing with the 'mixed economy of care' as embodied in the NHS and Community Care Act has in the end helped to pave the way for the current wholesale dismantling of Health and Community Care services, much to the detriment of ordinary people. I'd have preferred the Blair administration to focus on excising more of the Thatcherite poison rather than having an adventure overseas; still, on balance, I'd give them 6.5 out of 10.

This lot, I'd score in the minus for spending more and providing so much less.
http://t.co/YHxBHsKTkx
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by bobby on Wed Jun 19, 2013 9:19 am

Well said boatlady.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by boatlady on Wed Jun 19, 2013 5:41 pm

thank you, kind sir
Embarassed
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by oftenwrong on Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:34 pm

For you Radicals out there, here's some detail of this year's "School" at Tolpuddle on July 18-20:

[url=http://www.tolpuddlemartyrs.org.uk/uploads/Radical History Flyer.pdf]http://www.tolpuddlemartyrs.org.uk/uploads/Radical%20History%20Flyer.pdf[/url]
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by Redflag on Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:03 pm

sickchip wrote:The truth is the present day british working classes are effing pathetic.


I agree sickchip the UK people are very pathetic, when I think about what they did when the Poll tax was brought in there was riots everywhere and when you look at what this nasty gov't has done to them I has made me wonder where there bloody backb one is.  The only thing that will stop all the cuts to normal working man/women is a General Strike by every man women and child out and stay out until a G.E. was called that  will be the only thing that will stop this shower of dick heads in there tracks.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:25 pm

The caveat about rabble-rousing is that honesty requires that only people likely to make an actual physical protest in person are entitled to foment that reaction.

Couch potato rioters are two a penny.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by Redflag on Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:24 pm

oftenwrong wrote:The caveat about rabble-rousing is that honesty requires that only people likely to make an actual physical protest in person are entitled to foment that reaction.

Couch potato rioters are two a penny.

OW there does not have to be any rioting just protesting with us all in harmony and  ONE VOICE that is loud enough so that Cam the Bam Cleggy and Diddy Giddy hear loud and clear we want them out and a general election held and no more bloody Austerity.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:24 pm

What do you understand by "austerity"?

During the past three months, retail sales in the UK have
 enjoyed a 7% increase over the same period in 2012.

New Car production in Britain is up 15% over the past two years.

Evidently some people have decided to spend it before the taxman gets hold of it.  If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by Redflag on Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:57 pm

oftenwrong wrote:What do you understand by "austerity"?

During the past three months, retail sales in the UK have
 enjoyed a 7% increase over the same period in 2012.

New Car production in Britain is up 15% over the past two years.

Evidently some people have decided to spend it before the taxman gets hold of it.  If you can't beat 'em, join 'em!


|Or OW the only ones that are buying are the ones this gov't gave tax breaks too, it would take one to afford a new car.cheers
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by Penderyn on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:50 pm

sickchip wrote:The truth is the present day british working classes are effing pathetic.

It was the defeat of the miners that brought this about, and that happened because other workers believed the drivel they read in the right-wing lie-sheets, heard on the bosses' radio, saw on the bosses tv. It was like the Chinese water torture - the drip, drip, drip finally destroyed people's brains. The great thing is NEVER go along with their crap.
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by boatlady on Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:16 pm

Certainly the destruction of the industrial infra structure in Britain has changed our economy to my mind for the worse.

When we had heavy industry, boys and girls left school into a situation of almost full employment - whatever your aptitude, there was likely to be a niche for you.

A working man could earn enough to keep his family, pay his (subsidised, in social housing) rent and afford some luxuries. Dependence on State handouts was something to be ashamed of

Since we have become in the main a service-based, minimum wage economy, most working people are dependent on the state for help with rent, Tax Credits etc. Thanks to the sell-off of council housing, the rental sector is ruinously expensive.

The defeat of the miners in a sense signalled the start of this process, but maybe saying it brought about the state of affairs is to over-simplify. I think a whole series of events and policies were involved in turning England from a thriving, world-leading industrial nation into the sorry excuse for a country it is today, and you can't put it all down just to the miners/
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:45 pm

Relevant commentary in today's Independent

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/yasmin-alibhaibrown-with-britain-becoming-ever-more-unequal-we-need-the-likes-of-tony-benn-and-bob-crow-more-than-ever-9195461.html
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by boatlady on Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:53 pm

Interesting piece -- and did you read the comments?
Some of them to my mind verged on the racist
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:11 pm

Quelle surprise!
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Re: The Tolpuddle Martyrs

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