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How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

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How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by Greatest I am on Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Please ignore that I do not believe in any invisible entity. I would like this thread to be about you.
I also have rejected the notion of anything being able to breach the limits of nature and physics.
No miracles allowed in my theology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2VjdpVonY

If you do not follow your religion because of culture and tradition, when did you begin to be a believer?

Can you describe how you were made to believe in fantasy or imaginary creatures?

Were you an adult at that time or a child?

If a child, could this real phenomena be what caused you to believe?

http://academia.edu/503195/_Princess_Alice_is_watching_you_Childrens_belief_in_an_invisible_person_inhibits_cheating

Regards
DL
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Fairly easily by the look of it, in some cases anyway.

by polyglide Yesterday at 4:38 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
The only problem is that you do not believe in Satan and I do.

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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:21 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                 The only problem is that you do not believe in Satan and I do. 

Is that a typo? Do you mean Santa?
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by polyglide on Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:38 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
No, thought it was only you that had the typo problem as the past has proven.
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:56 pm

A little facetious but there is no more evidence for Satan than there is for Santa.
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by polyglide on Tue Jun 23, 2015 3:56 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
There are numerous life Santas, just go to any large supermarket prior to Christmas and you will physically meet hundreds.
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Jun 23, 2015 5:30 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                There are numerous life Santas, just go to any large supermarket prior to Christmas and you will physically meet hundreds.

Yet I've never seen a LIVE Satan, food for thought. Wink As I said, there is no more evidence for Satan than there is for Santa, though you now appear to be claiming that Santa's existence is the more likely? Personally I'm disinclined to believe claims that have no real evidence, especially when they are wildly implausible, logically contradictory, and irrational, and those making the claims appear to have a very strong motive to presuppose them to be true. When those claims are based on bronze age beliefs that make claims we now know to be disproved by scientific facts, then my credulity diminishes accordingly.
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by polyglide on Wed Jun 24, 2015 10:50 am

Dr, Sheldon,
I can follow your train of thought even though it is beyond me how you arrive at certain conclusions that have nothing to do with what I believe or have intimated.

My belief is based on the Bible and what I have actually experienced. you base your opinions on what scientists have found out regarding what God created.

I am well aware of all the disputable aspects regarding the Bible details, however, it is obvious to anyone that the contents are put in a manner that requires the seeking of the meanings in relationship to the whole, the last book in the Bible should indicate to anyone that you have to seek the meaning and not take things literally.
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:45 am

The idea that a being with limitless knowledge and power would deal in vague erroneous and contradictory allegory, which just happens to reflect the ignorance superstitions and prejudices of the era the texts originate strikes me as an absurdity.

What's benevolent about tricking people into an eternity of torture?

Come to that where was your god for the 145000 years when men women and children lived and died in complete ignorance of its existence?

Why show up in ancient Palestine in an era rife with ignorance and superstition doing magic tricks?
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:48 am

The bible can't be taken literally as it's demonstrably wrong again and again. This doesn't mean an omniscient intended it to be interpreted, it might more plausibly be wrong because it is entirely man made.

If you're unable to even contemplate any other point of view then you'll never uncover anything except your presupposed beliefs.
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:42 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                 I can follow your train of thought even though it is beyond me how you arrive at certain conclusions that have nothing to do with what I believe or have intimated.

It would be helpful for you to give an example, as making these kind of claims without evidence or context make it all but impossible to respond. What's more it makes it seem like a broad swipe at the poster, rather than a comment on what is posted, if you take my meaning. What conclusions are you saying I have reached that "have nothing to do with what you believe or have intimated?"
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by polyglide on Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:04 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
For one thing I do not believe in Santa as put forward to children, However, if you call a live person Santa and he/she is accepterd as such, then as with all other things there are Santas.

I do not believe in Mermaids nor any other mythical creature I base my belief in what I can confirm, the world at large and all it's contents.

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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:45 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon, For one thing I do not believe in Santa as put forward to children, However, if you call a live person Santa and he/she is accepterd as such, then as with all other things there are Santas. I do not believe in Mermaids nor any other mythical creature I base my belief in what I can confirm, the world at large and all it's contents.  

I never said you believed in Santa, I merely made an analogous comparison between Santa and Satan as they are both unevidenced myths. I'm not sure what point you're making in your second sentence, or what bearing it has on my point, but it is a demonstrable fact that no empirical evidence exists for Satan any more than for Santa Clause.

As for not believing in mythical creatures, a more accurate assertion would be that you don't consider your deity and Satan to be mythical creatures, but I would certainly argue they are since they are based on ancient myths and superstitions. However a useful exercise here might be for you to consider if you would be convinced by someone who claimed they did not believe in mythical creatures, but believed in mermaids and base this belief "in what they can confirm, the world at large and all it's contents."

How would their claim be any more or less valid than yours? I'm honestly not seeing any significant difference beyond sheer numbers.

As I have said simply reasserting your faith and beliefs doesn't really represent evidence, just your belief that evidence exists. What evidence are you claiming exists that I must have missed in my 50 years of existence? Or better still what evidence are you claiming exists for your deity, and Satan that doesn't exist for Allah, or Judaism, or Zeus, Baal or Apollo come to that? Even if I found your arguments for the existence of a deity at all compelling, which I'm afraid I don't thus far, how does it get you any closer to Jesus than Zeus, for example?

You also never addressed my questions in my previous posts?

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:45 pm
1. What's benevolent about tricking people into an eternity of torture with a confusing message of allegory, that is demonstrably wrong in places?
2. Come to that where was your god for the 145000 years when men women and children lived and died in complete ignorance of its existence?
3. Why show up in ancient Palestine in an era rife with ignorance and superstition doing magic tricks?
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by polyglide on Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:07 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I agree that there are more things to explain than those that are obvious.

I am sure that somewhere along the line the missing link is there, the time factor and what was first and when and where is also a mistery.

I also agree that on face value you could disagree with many things regarding the Bible in particular the dates when considering that which went before etc;

The main fact is what did the Bible mean by the Beginning.

It is obvious that prior to the Biblical account of Adam etc; that there had been life on earth in many forms.

We know not under what circumstances that those life forms lived nor what their existance involved regarding the creator.

Sorry I have to go, will try to explain my thoughts later.

regards.

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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:24 pm

That doesn't really explain why a benevolent deity with limitless power and knowledge would communicate or even allow to be communicated a message that is obviously false.

When you factor in the fact that these errors, superstitions and myths almost exactly reflect human opinions and prejudices of the era it was written it makes it fairly obvious that it's origins are entirely human.

You also haven't responded to my questions?
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by polyglide on Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:42 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
I thought I had answered your questions.

I do not agree about false messages etc;

My feelings about the Bible are:-

If the Bible was written to deceive, not forgetting that people of the age were not unintelligent, they would not have written that which could be later denied

So there is a reason and an explanation for everything in the Bible if you seek to find the answers.

I have not got all the answers as I have said previously
but they will be there.
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:23 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon, I thought I had answered your questions.

Nope, take another look.   

Polyglide wrote:I do not agree about false messages etc;

How can you claim that a narrative that claims that the earth was formed before the sun is not false?

Polyglide wrote:there is a reason and an explanation for everything in the Bible if you seek to find the answers. I have not got all the answers as I have said previously but they will be there.

Again these are precisely the same claims that all religions make for their religious texts, and it is self evident that if you subjectively look for what you want in a text that is at best ambiguous and at worst vague, erroneous and contradictory, by using allegory then of course you'll find what you want in there. Especially if you presuppose it to be a true narrative. You may want to consider a claim to know that answers exist in a book, but that you have failed to find in there, how could you possibly know this?
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by polyglide on Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:04 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
There is reasonable explanations available regarding the formation of the Sun and the earth.

Just log on to The Earth or the Sun and you will have many explanations for this point.

As I said Seek and Ye Shall Find.

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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:46 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon, There is reasonable explanations available regarding the formation of the Sun and the earth. Just log on to The Earth or the Sun and you will have many explanations for this point. As I said Seek and Ye Shall Find.

You still haven't responded to my questions?

What has this rather bizarre claim to do with the bible getting the chronology of the formation of our solar system hopelessly wrong? The sun was formed before the earth, you're claiming an omniscient being communicated a message that claims the opposite, and this error reflects the ignorance of the peoples in which the narrative originated.

The obvious answer is that the myth is entirely human in origin.

As I said, to claim an omnipotent omniscient would communicate or allow to be communicated such an obviously erroneous story is absurd.
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by polyglide on Sat Jul 04, 2015 12:37 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
As I have explained previously, I agree God would not put forward an event that at first glance appeared erronious but did not have an explanation if the explanation was sought.

If you are interested, as I am, you would seek the explanation as I have done.
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Sun Jul 05, 2015 12:59 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
                As I have explained previously, I agree God would not put forward an event that at first glance appeared erronious but did not have an explanation if the explanation was sought.

It is erroneous, and since it's in your bible's account of creation then either your deity has communicated or allowed to be communicated an obviously erroneous message, or the message is erroneous because it's origins are entirety human. Any unevidenced claims that it's been distorted of course which simply mean that the whole lot is entirely unsafe and nothing can be learned from it.

Polyglide wrote:If you are interested, as I am, you would seek the explanation as I have done.

Subjective interpretations that presuppose your beliefs are 100% true doesn't indicate someone interested in seeking explanations that are factually correct, you simply ignore what you don't like, that won't explain anything with any accuracy, and the simple fact is that whoever wrote that didn't know that the sun was older than the earth and therefore came first, now does that sound like a mistake an omniscient omnipotent being would make? Of course not. So as I say it's either such a being that is malevolently misleading us, or the whole thing is a human creation, and since humans have created many such myths and deities and this account isn't even unique but borrows from earlier ones then it's pretty obvious the latter is the case.

Still no answer to any of these?

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:45 pm
1. What's benevolent about tricking people into an eternity of torture with a confusing message of allegory, that is demonstrably wrong in places?
2. Come to that where was your god for the 145000 years when men women and children lived and died in complete ignorance of its existence?
3. Why show up in ancient Palestine in an era rife with ignorance and superstition doing magic tricks?
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When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:40 pm

When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Or will you seek a moral religion to replace the immoral one you now follow, if you happen to be Christian or Muslim?

Or will you let your faith hide the truth of the immorality of your God?

Martin Luther.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

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Should religions be classified as Fake News? The bible seems to say yes.

Post by Greatest I am on Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:41 pm

Should religions be classified as Fake News? The bible seems to say yes.

Fake News is what many are calling lies or distortions of the truth these days.

No organizations distort the truth and outright lie about Gods than the organized religions.

Should religions be classified as Fake News?

The bible seems to say yes.

Isaiah 56:11) "They are shepherds who have no understanding; They have all turned to their own way, each on to his unjust gain, to the last one" But do not despair, for the day of judgment is at hand, for the day of judgment and the day of the LORD occupy the same time frame. All the dross will be burned away. (Zech 13:9) & (Malachi 3:3). In that day, "you will distinguish between the righteous and the wicked" (Malachi 3:18)

Luke 11:52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by snowyflake on Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:25 pm

Religion IS fake news. It's not true, it's not real, it has no evidence to support it. It is the superstitious experiences of gullible people who cannot accept their own mortality.
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Post by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD on Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:03 pm

snowyflake wrote:Religion IS fake news. It's not true, it's not real, it has no evidence to support it. It is the superstitious experiences of gullible people who cannot accept their own mortality.

It's claims offend reason, defy logic and deny scientific facts, how can anyone champion that and expect rational discourse? Usually just before they have called atheists closed minded and just after they have claimed to be 100% certain of their own beliefs. Most theists are irony impaired when it comes to their own religious beliefs. They seem to think open minded means suggestible to the point of gullibility, and closed minded means critical thinking and possessing the ability to doubt.
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Re: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

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