We had 6 weeks to save the euro, that 6 weeks is up

These are President Obama's words!

How true are they?


I don't see suits throwing themselves off of skyscrapers, or other lover's leaps


What now?

Reading between the lines I feel there is too much drama, it is possible though unlikely that Greece may exit the euro, but the euro itself will not fail, the uncertainty in Greece will probably continue on into 2012 before settling down.

We are witnessing history, the new concept of a shared currency has hit a snagg, but we shall overcome

This is Christine Lagard tonight -

Statement by IMF Managing Director Christine Lagarde on the G-20 Cannes Summit
Press Release No. 11/395
November 4, 2011
The following statement was issued today by Ms. Christine Lagarde, Managing Director of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), after the conclusion of the Group of 20 Leaders Summit in Cannes, France:

“I welcome the Cannes Action Plan for Growth and Jobs as well as the other steps announced at the Summit, including the measures that will support the IMF in assisting our member countries and in promoting a more sustainable global economy. The G-20 Leaders recognized that we all face daunting policy challenges as the world economy has entered a more uncertain phase. While more work remains to be done, our two days of active discussion in Cannes have shown that we can find common ground for the greater good.

http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pr/2011/pr11395.htm


For the GREATER GOOD. What unseen intention lies in that statement. There is a little more on the link.

Is she holding money back, as she knows Japan is going to need shedloads of help very soon. read the IMF's own write ups on that story - too much to put on here.

With all eyes on the debt crisis engulfing America and Europe, few have noticed the depths to which Japan’s once-triumphant economy has sunk. With Tokyo reduced to wringing its hands, could Japanese economic dominance be dead in the water?

­In many ways, the Japanese economy is like a processed fish – caught, dried out, frozen, and now having great chunks of value sliced clean off.


http://rt.com/news/economy-japan-world-crisis-051/


yes I know, it's russia today - summat like the daily wail but this is not going to go away and the japanese people are starting to grumble about ships still lying in their streets, a mile inland from the docks.
Are we throwing good money at a lost cause? a forlorn hope?

When you read this caring lady, I must say I was surprised not to find any mention of what will follow within this thread, particularly as UKIP uploaded it onto YouTube. Anyway, here it is now:

It's official - The Euro is breaking up!

In the House of Commons, Mark Hoban the Financial secretary to the Treasury admits the Euro is breaking up

YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7XsEPP6l8g

Unquote: ============================

Note the video footage comes directly from our very own Parliament.

Here is another, quote:

The Tory Rebellion

Cameron picked a bad time to make his party more Europe-friendly.

Nov 14, 2011, Vol. 17, No. 09 • By CHRISTOPHER CALDWELL

On Thursday, no one in Parliament was talking about anything except the mess in Greece and the impending collapse of the euro. A couple of Tory members were telling me why it was inevitable that the European currency would break up—and soon—when word spread that their colleague Mark Hoban, a minister in the Treasury, had made a terrible gaffe. Responding to a hostile question about whether Britain would ever join the common European currency, Hoban had replied: “I don’t think there is any intention for us to join the euro at the time when it is breaking up.” In short, the country’s ruling party finds itself in a position where it is not supposed to say things that all of its members know.

Link: http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/tory-rebellion_607775.html

Unquote: ===============================

The date is clearly a typographical error, which should read 4 November 2011.

With regard content, the euro is breaking up. The problems posed relate to cost of the breakup. Hence, leaders are trying to buy time, time they have very little of.

Note Germany have revived the D-mark, and are preparing for the breakup, and so too is the UK with UK banks instructed to decrease their exposure to eurozone. Lloyd's and Barclays banks are known to have done exactly that.

Then we have these,

‘Euro could be dead in a month’

Published: 05 November, 2011, 22:50

...

The euro has never been so shaky. And if the eurozone does not get its act together, the euro could be dead by the end of November, maintained Young.

“There is no leadership, everybody is rushing to try and get themselves re-elected, particularly Sarkozy, but Obama as well. This is going to implode and it is going to have terrible impact on all of Europe,”

For full text and RT video news link: http://rt.com/news/greece-eurozone-crisis-government-639/

Unquote:======================================

"The Euro elite are totally out of touch with the modern world" reported the Telegraph, , and they are right, not that most here did not already know that, and then we have the article "Britain turns on 'disreputable' Germany as relations sour over eurozone crisis" from the Guardian, which highlighted a few facts revealing Germany benefited from weak member states, which I imagine would be open to debate here and elsewhere.

Where-ever you stand on the euro issue, the fact remains there is no escaping the eurozone will break up. One only has to examine the havoc from Greece with total population of about 11 million people then apply what is coming to the real problem that is now showing its head. The contagion has reached the core, and real problem right now is Italy with population of over 60 million people.

Link 1: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/8871973/The-Euro-elite-are-totally-out-of-touch-with-the-modern-world.html

Link 2: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/wintour-and-watt/2011/nov/05/g20-euro?newsfeed=true

Wrong about ERM and Euro membership then. Wrong about Eurozone now

The break up of the Eurozone would be a disaster, they tell us.

Weren't the same kind of people - indeed in several cases precisely the same people - once telling us that the end of the ERM would be a disaster, too?

Far from ruining us economically, once Britain broke out of the Exchange Rate Mechanism we went on to enjoy the longest period of economic growth in our history.

Now a report by the Centre for Economics and Business Research suggests that allowing countries to break out of the Euro could, after short term pain, result in renewed prosperity.

I can think of several members of the current government - and not just the Lib Dems - who were once very keen that Britain should to stay in the ERM, warning of disaster if we left.

And I can also think of some who in the mid 1990s wanted Britain to join the Euro.

I fear that those who say we should maintain the Eurozone at any price today are just as wrong-headed.


Posted on 7 November 2011 by Douglas Carswell [MP]

Link: http://www.talkcarswell.com/show.aspx?id=2153

Unquote: ================================

A few months ago, Germany re-started printing the D-mark, and Ireland was rumored to be doing the same with the Punt. In effect, any eurozone member state should be doing the same with their currency.

British banks and financial industries had been advised to reduce their exposure to eurozone. Note at time of writing, the UK still possesses a £2 billion exposure to Greece debt, which is minor compared to that of Germany and France.

Note even USA are exposed, and already two institutions have filed for bankruptcy as result to bad investments made in Eurozone.

Note France is in full panic, especially with unfolding events in Italy. If Italy goes, France will go with it.

What about UK? Well, for those who had been following events and surfing the net, the item that may have caught your eye may be the headlines "Eurozone break-up would be no disaster for UK".

The euro is breaking up. However, even a breakup requires time, possesses its own costs, and will have a significant impact on some nations more that others.

.......... continued on pages 232, 233, 234, 235 and both endpapers .......

Phoenix One UK wrote:-
In the House of Commons, Mark Hoban the Financial secretary to the Treasury admits the Euro is breaking up

That's the opinion of a junior UK minister. It is therefore, extremely misleading to claim that "it's official" that the euro is breaking up. It also makes it an unsuitable topic for a new thread, especially when this, very similar one, was already up and running.

Please read the posting advice on the first board before starting new threads, and in particular observe the requirements concerning copyright. Thank you.

Hold on Ivan, your forever using quotes from that bastion of social responsibility formally called "The Guardian" as valid info. Surely any minister and his/her views are equally as poignant?

tlttf wrote:-
Hold on Ivan, your forever using quotes from that bastion of social responsibility formally called "The Guardian" as valid info. Surely any minister and his/her views are equally as poignant?

You’re missing the point. Any minister’s views are certainly worth reporting, but not misreporting. The euro may indeed be breaking up, but it isn’t “official”, and to start a thread which says that it is is downright misleading and against our house rules, which are as follows:-

1. Don’t create a thread on a subject which is already being discussed.

2. Don't post misleading subjects. Make the subject of your thread relevant to your topic.

3. If possible, please make the title of your thread a question, and a reasonably short one at that. If you want to provoke responses, you’re more likely to do so if you ask people a question rather than just present them with a statement or news item.

4. If you try to make your thread slightly controversial, other members are more likely to be motivated to reply.

5. Don’t make your opening posting too long or too complicated. If you have lots of material on the subject, save some of it for follow-up posts once the discussion gets going.

6. Observe the copyright laws. Just post short extracts from sources and then provide the link, so that members can read the full story if they're so inclined. Use quotations to support your argument, not to replace it.

It’s my head on the block if legal action is instigated over any breach of copyright, and as we’ve had one forum taken out of service for unexplained reasons, I’m not taking any chances with this one.

Expect a change of government in SPAIN after next weekend's General Election. Polls suggest a lurch to the right towards the Partido Popular which has been in opposition for several years, since they tried to blame the muslim bombing of a train at Atocha Station on Basque separatists.
How will they deal with the 40% unemployment rate amongst the young, and collapse of property values, neither of which would be helped by flight from the Euro?

All the EU and -EURO have accomplished is an ever growing number of people moving to the right and thankfully the beginings of a resurgance in nationalism......about time too.

the next elections look promising for UKIP and the BNP.

The effort by Germany and France to persuade all 27 European Union countries to agree to treaty changes failed, in large part because of Britain's refusal to give up some powers.

That's rather misleading. Cameron wouldn't agree to a financial transactions tax on the bankers who provide more than 50% of the income for his wretched Tory Party, even though it would have raised £20 billion for the government. Yet the reality is that he won't be able to stop it because of qualified majority voting in the EU, so he's achieved precisely nothing.

The effort for unanimity failed entirely because of Cameron, since it appears that all of the other 26 countries will sign up for the new arrangement, leaving just the UK isolated and on the outside without a say in the decision-making process. Cameron has shown himself to be a blithering idiot.

So there you have if folks - 26 nations are WRONG and David Cameron is right

Well time will tell

The Eurozone nations have declared that the matter will be resolved by next March.

Currency speculators may be working to a shorter timescale.

So why doesn’t Cameron want to help save the euro? Why is he siding with the 1%, the fat cat bankers who got us into this mess? Shamik Das has explained:-

“Tory dependence on the City doubled from when Cameron became Tory leader to when he became Prime Minister, the amount of money the Tories received from City money more than quadrupling. More recently, 37 Tory donors with a combined fortune of more than £10 billion – linked to finance, hedge funds, private equity, property and other City activities – donated 60% of the Tories’ funding in the last quarter…..Who runs the government? Who’s pulling the strings? Whose money influences Tory policy? Even if Cameron wanted to do the right thing, the gun to his head from the Tories’ biggest donors meant he couldn’t.”

GMB General Secretary Paul Kenny added: “Never in the history of political party funding have so few bought so much political influence for so little. The Tory Party is increasingly being funded by the asset strippers and predators…They are the same old nasty Tories now in the pockets of the predatory elite. This is why they have yet to lift a finger against the bankers who caused the recession in 2007… The Tory Party is the political wing of the rich and the elite – the 1%.”

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2011/12/david-cameron-eurozone-deal-veto/

Ivan.....The problem is...and you well know this....is that due to successive governments failure to invest in manufaturing (Tory & Labour) our largest industry is now the Finance sector. Germany and France want a slice of that for their EU project, but I cant see any calls for a transaction tax on the German motor industry or the end of ridiculous and unfair subsidies on French farmers. Can you imagine the furore if we suggested those measures???

In these difficult times Cameron has to safeguard our largest and biggest tax paying industries or we will become even weaker and easier for the German/Franco allience to pick off

blueturando. A financial transactions tax would be applied across Europe. No one is suggesting that it would only apply to the UK, but it would raise £20 billion a year for the Treasury. It might even stop some of the short-term speculative transactions that take place for no good reason other than for making bankers a fast buck.

A tax on just the German motor industry would be illegal under EU rules. It would have to be a tax on the entire European motor industry, so your comparison isn’t valid.

The other point you seem to have missed is that the financial transactions tax could still happen under the EU’s qualified majority voting rule. Cameron hasn’t done anything to protect his beloved banker friends. All he has achieved is to make us isolated because the rabid tail of the Tory Party is wagging the dog.

blue

blueturando wrote:Ivan.....The problem is...and you well know this....is that due to successive governments failure to invest in manufaturing (Tory & Labour) our largest industry is now the Finance sector.

....which has proved to be a false economy. What the financial sector has gained/or contributes is far outweighed by an ever escalating benefits bill due to unemployment, private rents (housing benefit), and the fact that the majority of jobs are so low paid (whilst living costs rise) that they require topping up with some form of government assistance. This dependence on the financial sector in the UK has also been very damaging to societies health....and is destroying hope for youth, families, and small businesses across the UK. Is it any wonder we will witness increasing civil disorder/rioting in the coming years.

The tory tactic of turning the focus of blame upon the poorest in society, and encouraging a demand for cuts in benefits, is a very divisive and dangerous one. They are scapegoating without addressing the root of the problems....they are making those suffering economic misery into the enemy - painting them all as weak, leeching, etc. Maybe they should turn the light on themselves and their city friends?

How can it be a false economy Sickchip??? Please be more realistic instead of trotting out the well used and well worn leftie sound bites...they don't make any sense at all!!!
If it a false economy why would a fraction of a percentage transaction tax raise £20 billion a year for the treasury....according to Ivan. If you read what I had said then you know I was saying we dont have many other industries left other than Financial services and you know as well as I do that both Labour and the Tories have done little to change this over the last 30 years. Both parties were happy to reap the rewards and spend the money they received from financial services in the boom years, so stop trying to pretend it's the 'nasty tories'...that doesn't wash with anyone who knows anything at all about politics or political history. Where do you think Blair and Brown got all their cash from??? Or did they just borrow it all??
Some of you should really try and look further than the end of your noses and stop boring us all with the usual BS. If you can prove to me that Labour investeted in Manufacturing and reveresed to de-regulation on the Financial Services sector during their 13 years in power, then I will happily agree with all that you say....but I fear you will not answer the question and carry on with the usual junior school political analysis

Hello blue. You ask why didn’t Blair and Brown impose more regulation on the City? (John Redwood was still advocating even less regulation in 2008). Our GDP was growing, and we had the longest period of uninterrupted growth in our history; “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” comes to mind. With hindsight, Gordon Brown admitted that he should have imposed greater regulation, but I can just imagine the screams of “socialist interference” if he had done so during the good years.

The credit crunch showed that the City bankers can be wealth destroyers, and it will take years to recover from their actions. Isn’t it true that the financial sector is useful only insofar as it serves that real economy? Allowing the financial sector to dominate to the point where it is seen as the only way we can make our way in the world is absurd. The rest of Europe can see that even if we can’t.

The difference between the parties is that whereas Labour gets a large chunk of its money from hundreds of thousands of small donations by employees to their trade unions, the Tories are currently getting about 60% of their income from a relatively small group of City businessmen. These are people who make money by selling profitable companies such as Cadbury’s to foreign owners, thus depriving the British government of tax revenues while taking huge commissions for themselves. Moreover, these banks and financial institutions make their fees by advising clients on how to avoid tax by arranging for off-shore investments. They’re the people who Cameron was trying to protect in Brussels. The UK consists of 90,060 square miles; Cameron fought for just one of them.

So for this fraudulent treaty to work, all the euro countries have to lower their deficits to 0.5%, if they go over 3% then fiscal (lovely word) blocks will be placed on them by the EU?

How does that work when Italy has deficits above 28% closely followed by Spain and France. The whole thing is a joke, they'll happily fumble along until the market takes control anf forces the issue.

Thank you Cameron for having the foresight to say no. Time will prove him right,

Right. Dead right. and just as dead politically as if he had been wrong.

blueturando wrote:How can it be a false economy Sickchip??? Please be more realistic instead of trotting out the well used and well worn leftie sound bites...they don't make any sense at all!!!
If it a false economy why would a fraction of a percentage transaction tax raise £20 billion a year for the treasury....according to Ivan. If you read what I had said then you know I was saying we dont have many other industries left other than Financial services and you know as well as I do that both Labour and the Tories have done little to change this over the last 30 years. Both parties were happy to reap the rewards and spend the money they received from financial services in the boom years, so stop trying to pretend it's the 'nasty tories'...that doesn't wash with anyone who knows anything at all about politics or political history. Where do you think Blair and Brown got all their cash from??? Or did they just borrow it all??
Some of you should really try and look further than the end of your noses and stop boring us all with the usual BS. If you can prove to me that Labour investeted in Manufacturing and reveresed to de-regulation on the Financial Services sector during their 13 years in power, then I will happily agree with all that you say....but I fear you will not answer the question and carry on with the usual junior school political analysis

I would respectfully suggest blue, that it is your analysis that belongs in junior school. The financial services industry have not caused any improvement to the economy of the UK.....they have hindered real growth and we are now seeing living standards/prospects for the majority in freefall - thanks to the actions of these overpaid so-called 'experts'.

The gross mis-management of our economy by the banks, and the collusion in their abuse of the british public of both labour and tory, is a disgrace.

The european currencies are over valued. The likes of the franc and the mark, and especially the pound are all way over vaued for nations that do not produce as much as the third world that produces a lot. That is why there are more jobs in the third world.

The reason these currencies, aswell as the dollar, stay high, is speculation. When the currency goes low, people buy it becuase they think it is under valued. This is based on what it used to be. The reason the pound is worth so much is a result of the second world war, where britain was producing so much. The reason the other european currencies are worth so little is because they all went though the real rigours of war.

The euro is doomed to either reach it's real value, or fall away completely. This would mean the rest of the world would not have the majority of manufacturing jobs they have at present, so we will see all jobs in the third world fall away as all things are sourced to europe that need this sort of manufacture, as it is of a higher quality there anyways.

Think of the state of the world? If the third world is carrying the first on slave wages, that means the first will be able to do it all themselves, and the third will be able to buy these goods once imported. This would mean that laoning money would become nearly equal in all ways! This would mean that farmers could get the right amount of money for their goods - a big seller in the third world, and would expand their farms so as to employ more people and create more jobs somehow.

The euro is over valued. This is a relay product of demand, but there is no demand so the deals are made on a false premise.

The threat to the US$ has receded. The so-called BRICs, whose economy was thriving at the precise moment that Lehmann Brothers bit the dust, have all gone as far as they can for the moment. Expansion can only come from exports, which unfortunately rely upon a willing Importer.

If the two sides of that equation are not in balance, everything depends on who will blink first.

Nothing comes out of europe except cars and majority shares of the third world companies.

Ms Merkel is coming under growing pressure to put German taxpayers' money behind measures such as "eurobonds" which would spread the burden of debt from ailing economies such as Greece among the 17 single currency members.

Mr Cameron is expected to tell her that he and US president Barack Obama are agreed that an "immediate plan" is needed to save the eurozone. on Wednesday night he warned that "speed is of the essence" if jobs, opportunities and growth are not to be lost.

However, he will also be wary of being seen to lecture euro members from a position outside the single currency. He has cautioned against holding Germany solely responsible for delays in dealing with the long-running debt crisis. Extract MSN Report.

He really does not need to "TELL" which will look like a demand with his arrogance,especially if she gets shirty. She is fully aware of what Obama and Cameron want, however I dont think Cameron is in any way a diplomat, which IMO is needed here. Ed would be a better candidate for this kind of discussion.

I do not think he is at all "wary"as being seen to lecture Merkel as he IMO unable to act in any other way as we see day in day out with him.

I think Merkel will tell hjm where to go as it's her decision not his. She loOks to me as if she could chew him up and spit him out. I do hope so.

Nothing less than full monetary union and a single fiscal authority governing every Country in the Eurozone is going to work in the long term.

Gordon Brown recognised that, which is why he resisted Tony Blair's efforts to get us into that particular mess. The British Pound is now regarded as a "safe haven" for Continentals withdrawing their money from Banks in their own Country.

That' was a judgment which may now be having the (unintended) effect of saving Gideon from a downgrade of Britain's credit-rating.

The first paragraph is totally correct OW, as for Brown it was an unintentional move that he did in order to put blocks on Blair, yes we've benefitted from a mistake by the labour party (probably the first time in history), unfortunately the same self serving pariahs are in control at the moment hiding as a coalition.

Collapse of the Euro will not cause newspaper headlines of the type, "Earthquake in Patagonia, no British hurt". The effect will be devastating on the British Economy, if for no other reason than the uncertainty within a principal export market.

The REALLY bad news will emerge when British Banks reveal their exposure of loans to the Eurozone.

oftenwrong wrote:Collapse of the Euro will not cause newspaper headlines of the type, "Earthquake in Patagonia, no British hurt". The effect will be devastating on the British Economy, if for no other reason than the uncertainty within a principal export market.

The REALLY bad news will emerge when British Banks reveal their exposure of loans to the Eurozone.

Oh dear. Will the collapse of the Euro mean the end of Germanies 3rd attempt in a century to take over Europe. Or am I just being cynical.

Cyprus on the list now. If they borrow from Russia, what are the repercussions, reverberations likely to be?

Would Cyprus borrow from Turkey?

Maybe sell some real-estate to them?