Why, in democratic European countries, are unelected governments being put into power?

by NIN Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:05 pm

First topic message reminder :

Just wondering why our grandparents bothered liberating europe from germanys grip,,all those tens of millions of brave men and women who gave their lifes so as to stop the german domination of europe did so for nothing.

all these unelected govts ruling people who never voted for them,,or even given the RIGHT to vote for them.

that german hag who has no shoulders called angela,,has told our leader that the british people dont want any referendums on anything to do with europe.

well all i can say is that im sorry that of the seven german bastards whom my grandfather slaughtered during ww2,,angelas parents were not amongst them.

by **astradt1** Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:33 pm

Since you regularly insert “USV” in posts to me (for instance, your post of 23 August 2012 at 10:34, a portion of which is quoted above), perhaps you might cease wasting your time by refraining from doing so in future posts.

I and I am sure others will do when you stop trying to point out that america is more than the USA........Which we are all well aware of....

Or is it you find it hard to realise when it is the USA others are talking about?

by ROB Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:26 pm

astradt1 wrote:
Re: Greece has lost its sovereignty. Is the United Kingdom next in line?
by astradt1 on Thu 23 Aug 2012 -18:33

… I am sure others…

astradt1 wrote:
… when it is the USA others…

Who are “others?”

astradt1 wrote:
… Which we…

Who are “we?”

astradt1 wrote:
I… will do…

Excellent. You may tip the waitress on your way out.

by witchfinder Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:24 pm

In 2005 the now infamous Hurricane Katrina hit the gulf coast of the United States, the state of Louisiana and in particular the city of New Orleans was badly hit to a devastating effect.

The federal government released well over 100 billion dollars within the first 12 months after the disaster to help with reconstruction, the hurricane was, and still is the costliest natural disaster ever to hit the United States.

The comparison of Greece and Europe with Louisiana and the United States is in actual fact very similar, except that Greece is not a state within a "United States", whereas Louisiana is.

The level of damage done to New Orleans together with the costs to the economy of Louisiana would have crippled that state, probably even bankrupted the state alltogether, but of course been part of the union of 50 states meant that Louisiana could rely on the federal government for help.

A proper and meaningfull united Europe with shared sovereignty, but with 27 seperate states would have ensured that the Greek economic disaster would never have happened, and even if it did, Europe would have bailed the Greeks out from central funds.

Reason number 189 why a united Europe is a good idea

by astra Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:03 pm

No. 2012 why it is a bad idea.

Most of Greece's fiscal woes are engrained in the casual tax collection of that country, AND the attitude of the billionaires in Greece - Shipping Magnates amongst others, that paying tax is only for the small people.

If Greek 'politicians' had not fiddled the books and bankers worldwide, to include the USA had not covered it all up, Greece would still be OUTSIDE the Eurozone.

by oftenwrong Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:31 pm

A reminder that the giant global sales organisation Amazon pays NO TAX in the UK. It's by no means the only Company trading in Britain that pays little or no tax in Britain.

How then can we criticise Greek tax-collection practices?

by **Ivan** Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:39 pm

In 2005 the now infamous Hurricane Katrina hit the gulf coast of the United States, the state of Louisiana and in particular the city of New Orleans was badly hit to a devastating effect…..The federal government released well over 100 billion dollars within the first 12 months after the disaster to help with reconstruction.

witchfinder. ‘The Shock Doctrine’ by Naomi Klein doesn’t paint quite such a rosy picture of what happened after Hurricane Katrina. It took an absurdly long time to repair the levees and bring the electricity grid back online, yet the New Orleans’ school system was auctioned off in no time at all. Klein (page 5) says: “Within nineteen months, with most of the city’s poor residents still in exile, New Orleans' public school system had been almost completely replaced by privately run charter schools. Before Hurricane Katrina, the school board had run 123 public schools, now it ran just 4.” Apparently all 4,700 members of a teaching union were fired, but a few of the younger teachers were re-appointed by the charter schools at reduced salaries.

This was a classic example of what Klein calls 'disaster capitalism', where a catastrophe is used as an opportunity to self off state assets. In exactly the same way, the global credit crunch has been the cover for the wholesale destruction of public services currently being carried out in the UK by Cameron’s evil, corrupt and incompetent regime.

https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t601-the-shock-doctrine-by-naomi-klein

by **astradt1** Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:46 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
astradt1 wrote:
Re: Greece has lost its sovereignty. Is the United Kingdom next in line?
by astradt1 on Thu 23 Aug 2012 -18:33

… I am sure others…
astradt1 wrote:
… when it is the USA others…

Who are “others?”

astradt1 wrote:
… Which we…
Who are “we?”
astradt1 wrote:
I… will do…

Excellent. You may tip the waitress on your way out.

LOL...........Plenty of cut and paste practice used ....Now he must be the expert on the board........

by ROB Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:01 am

witchfinder wrote:
The level of damage done to New Orleans [by Hurricane Katrina] together with the costs to the economy of Louisiana would have crippled that state, probably even bankrupted the state alltogether, but of course been part of the union of 50 states meant that Louisiana could rely on the federal government for help.

The comparison between the United States and the European “Union” is fundamentally flawed.

The United States is a union; the European “Union” is a disunion.
The United States is united; the European “Union” is disunited.
The United States is all for one and one for all; the European “Union” is all for two (Germany and France) and two (Germany and France) for two (Germany and France).

by oftenwrong Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:48 pm

As long as it keeps them from invading each other all the time, it must be serving some purpose.

by **astradt1** Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:55 pm

The United States is united;

What about the threat in 2009, not long after President Obama was elected, that texas would secede from the union or was that just more hot air coming out of the lone star state and it's governor?

by **Ivan** Sun Aug 26, 2012 2:48 pm

The United States is a union; the European “Union” is a disunion.
The United States is united; the European “Union” is disunited.
The United States is all for one and one for all; the European “Union” is all for two (Germany and France) and two (Germany and France) for two (Germany and France).

C’mon, Rock, you can do better than that. Three bald statements with no explanation.

The European Union is most certainly a union; it’s the largest free-trade area in the world for a start. Yes, there are divisions within it, and not every country uses the euro as its currency, but don’t let’s pretend that the USA is ‘united’. I see a bitterly divided country, with roughly equal numbers supporting the reasonably enlightened Democratic Party and the sad, mad and bad GOP. Do the people who live on the east and west coasts really have that much in common with mid-west rednecks, hobos and hillbillies? Can a liberal New Yorker really identify with a gun-touting, blood-lusting Texan who wants to execute anyone who commits as much as a parking violation? (I may have exaggerated just a little there to make my point!)

As OW says, at least the European Union prevents the wars which have ravaged the continent throughout history. The USA has only had that one bust-up in the 1860s, but if some get their way, it might not be such a united union for much longer:-

“Virginia Republicans Call for Armed Revolution if Obama Wins in November.” http://www.politicususa.com/virginia-republicans-call-armed-revolution-obama-wins-november.html

by ROB Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:45 pm

Ivan wrote:
C’mon, Rock, you can do better than that.

From 1861 through 1865, the United States of America suffered its most costly war in its history, a great civil war, which was our low point in a long, tortuous process the result of which is now, and has been for awhile, a thoroughly imperfect, and absolutely united, United States of America.

The so-called European “Union”, actually the European “Autocracy”, the “EA”, wherein the two big dogs on the block, Germany and France, have become de facto dictators to vassal states such as Greece.

But perhaps I err in terminology; Germany (1) plus France (1) equals two (2), so a better appellation might be European “Duocracy” (not a word, but maybe it ought to be), to reflect the co-autocratic nature of the European “Autocracy.

And about those two big dog member states and their chief vassal, Italy: As I recall, during the cognizant lifetimes of many Brits, Canadians, Americans USV, and others still alive and kicking right now, Germany, egged on by the German people’s hero and “rock star” Der Fuhrer, (homey had more “groupies” trying to get with him than Frank Sinatra, Mick Jagger, and Tom Cruse put together) waged vicious war against the United Kingdom and its people.

France? Capitulated in five weeks (Poland held out for six weeks) and formed Vichy France, which co-operated with Uncle Adolf in “de-Jew-ifying” France and ordered its troops and ships to fire upon Allied troops and ships during Operation Torch.

Italy: Benito jumped in to help his roadie Adolf as soon as he saw which way the wind was blowing. North Africa campaign mean anything?

If I was a Brit, I wouldn’t trust Germany, France, and Italy as far as I could throw then with my pinkie. If the United Kingdom were attacked tomorrow, the nations that would rush to its aid are all non-European nations.

I’m a Texan; when New York and Arlington, Virginia were viciously attacked 11 September 2001, I tried to volunteer to go to my knees (kneeling position, M-16), but they didn’t want my old butt getting in the way. If you attack New York City (as snooty as New Yorkers are), you attack Texas, and you will feel the wrath of Texans on land, on and below the sea, and in the air. That’s united, which the European “Union” is not. That’s a union, which the European “Union” is not.

If y’all want to continue fooling yourselves, I can’t stop you. But I will do what I can by doing my part; anyone running for federal office that ant’s my vote had better stand ready to protect our friends across the pond. I “lived” through the Battle of Britain via US News, Newsweek, Time, Life, and Look, reading the issues thereof in chronological order from about 1936, when Adolf the beast disrespected Jesse Owens, through September 1945, when the Allies accepted the unconditional surrender of the Empire of Japan aboard the USS Missouri. 15 September is commemorated in my house every year. When the Germans, French, and Italians turn their backs on y’all, my fellow Texans and I will be there.

by **Ivan** Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:57 pm

The Second World War finished 67 years ago, so perhaps it's time to move on. Multicultural Germany today would no doubt make Hitler turn in his grave (if he had one), but it's a nice country which bears no resemblance to what it was like when ruled by fascists from 1933-1945.

In Britain today, the richest 10% have 12 times as much income as the poorest 10%; in Germany the richest 10% have 6 times as much, so society is more equal. The Germans don't execute people, they don't allow people to carry guns, and I'm pleased that they've now banned the genital multilation of little boys. If I had to choose between living in the USA, which is infested with rabid Republicans obsessed with controlling women's bodies, or Germany, Germany wins every time. And if by some misfortune the Tories get re-elected in 2015, I might just go and live there, especially as I'm allowed to by the EU and I can speak a little of the language.

by oftenwrong Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:25 pm

...."if by some misfortune the Tories get re-elected in 2015, I might just go and live there, especially as I'm allowed to by the EU and I can speak a little of the language."

I talk a lot of rubbish - where should I go?

by **astradt1** Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:45 pm

oftenwrong wrote:...."if by some misfortune the Tories get re-elected in 2015, I might just go and live there, especially as I'm allowed to by the EU and I can speak a little of the language."

I talk a lot of rubbish - where should I go?

Texas?.... From what's posted on here from that state you should be understood.....

by tlttf Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:02 am

On the positive side, the £ is still improving against the euro and as I'm going to Skiathos in a couple of weeks all is looking good. Greece is going under closely following by Spain for the simple reason that 27 different cultural views don't equate to one political monetary policy (it doesn't fit). Germany (lovely place) is presently going through the same concerns that they did in the 30's that brought to the fore "fascism" only this time they believe it's the rest of the euro that's causing the problem other than internally.

by **Ivan** Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:27 am

Germany (lovely place) is presently going through the same concerns that they did in the 30's that brought to the fore "fascism" only this time they believe it's the rest of the euro that's causing the problem other than internally.

tlttf. What utter rubbish. Fascism came to the fore in Germany in the 1930s because a bankrupt country had been told that it had to pay for the cost of the First World War, an impossible task exacerbated by the effects of the Wall Street Crash of 1929. Hitler promised to restore German pride and make the country strong, but he left it in ruins in 1945.

Germany today is the strongest country in Europe and, unlike the UK, where this evil Tory-dominated government is demonising the disabled and other benefit claimants, displays no signs of fascism. The German people are irked by having to continually bail out weaker countries like Greece, but such issues arise because of their strength and success, the very opposite to the 1930s.

by tlttf Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:03 pm

As usual Ivan you storm in attacking (what's with you and democracy). Check your history and you'll find the powers that be in Germany during the 1930's convinced the public that the reason they were bankrupt was because of the foreigners within were taking all the wealth out of the country, the start of the Browncoats and fascism. See all that without calling you one name, good ere innit.

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Why, in democratic European countries, are unelected governments being put into power?

Why, in democratic European countries, are unelected governments being put into power?

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Re: Why, in democratic European countries, are unelected governments being put into power?

Re: Why, in democratic European countries, are unelected governments being put into power?

Re: Why, in democratic European countries, are unelected governments being put into power?

Re: Why, in democratic European countries, are unelected governments being put into power?

Re: Why, in democratic European countries, are unelected governments being put into power?

Re: Why, in democratic European countries, are unelected governments being put into power?

Re: Why, in democratic European countries, are unelected governments being put into power?

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Re: Why, in democratic European countries, are unelected governments being put into power?

Re: Why, in democratic European countries, are unelected governments being put into power?

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