Should drugs be legalised?

by True Blue Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:19 pm

First topic message reminder :

The only way to end the war on drugs and the criminal controls therein is to legalize drugs. That simple act puts the power of control and price into the hands of the government and takes it out of the hands of criminals.

It worked on Alcohol in America after the failed prohibition policies... and it would work now for drugs. Let the government control the amount of active ingredient, the production requirements and the price at which it sells. Let the budget get the benefits of increased tax revenue through licencing and excise. Let the tax revenue provide for the voluntary drug and alcohol rehabilitation programs for those with addiction issues - it's cheaper than waging a drug war and incarceration. Let the people choose their poison as once they could.

Drugs have been an cultural inclusion within all societies since pre history times. We are not going to stop seeking them. Allow some social drugs (alcohol) to be deemed acceptable and others not is moral hypocrisy.

by ROB Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:52 am

Marijuana decriminalised in Washington state
6 December 2012 Last updated at 10:07 ET
BBC News - US & Canada

Possession of marijuana has become legal in the US state of Washington, a month after voters opted for decriminalisation.

From midnight (08:00 GMT) anyone aged 21 and over was allowed to carry up to 1oz (28.4g) of cannabis, but smoking it in public will remain illegal.

It has been legal for medical use in the state since 1998

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20621210

by oftenwrong Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:30 pm

No British government will de-criminalise drugs before the US Administration does so.

by snowyflake Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:32 pm

Although I would baulk at calling prostitution a 'service' (to my mind it's a form of exploitation and should not be countenanced in a civilised society) as there are prostitutes out there, I would agree the practice should be legalised, taxed and appropriate measures in place to ensure prostitutes are safe in the workplace and get proper health care etc.

This is what the Netherlands do and I fully support it. It prevents women walking the streets, ensures they are healthy while they work and they pay into retirement funds, taxes and health insurance.

Non-addictive drugs like cannabis can be legalised safely and controlled like cigarettes and alcohol.

by **Ivan** Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:00 pm

I’ve said previously that legalising drugs might be worth considering, though I’m not 100% sold on the idea. Nothing will stop the desire for any product that people want, as the prohibition of alcohol in the USA in the 1920s showed. Making the production, supply and use of some drugs illegal creates a vacuum into which organised crime moves.

Legalised drugs would cripple organised crime, reduce prison overcrowding and free up police resources to fight non-drug related crimes against people and property. Legal drugs would be safer and would slow the spread of AIDS and other diseases.

Using illegal drugs is very expensive, causing some dependent users to resort to stealing to raise funds; that accounts for 50% of UK property crime - estimated at £2 billion a year.

If cannabis was legal, I don’t think it would be any more of a “gateway drug” to harder substances like cocaine and heroin than tobacco is. I think the gateway is buying one illegal drug from a dealer and then being persuaded to try another.

by oftenwrong Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:26 pm

There is evidently one thing that drug use, alcoholism and pornography have in common, which is that the habitual User requires a bigger and bigger "hit" to obtain satisfaction as time passes. Society must accordingly be prepared for an uncertain outcome if the respective laws were to be relaxed.

by **Ivan** Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:12 pm

Call from cross-party peers to legalise 'low-risk' drugs

"Some drugs should be decriminalised with the least harmful substances regulated and sold in shops, a cross-party group of peers recommends. While the supply of the most dangerous substances should remain banned, users caught with a small quantity of any drug should not be penalised, the inquiry found."

For the full story:-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/call-from-crossparty-peers-to-legalise-lowrisk-drugs-8449910.html

by oftenwrong Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:32 pm

Britain will always follow the USA in the matter of legalising the use of Drugs.

by skwalker1964 Mon Jan 21, 2013 1:44 pm

In my opinion, two arguments for legalisation are overwhelming. First, banning drugs simply hands power and finance to criminals - just as prohibition in the US financed the growth of organised crime.

The second, related to the first point, is purely financial - rather than allowing criminals to get rich selling drugs, the trade could provide legal employment, contribute to economic growth and generate massive amounts of revenue from tax and licensing. Money saved on the current need to police against drugs could be used for other purposes - for example cracking down on things that could never be allowed to be legal, such as human trafficking, or even for purposes entirely unrelated to policing.

There are also arguments for legalising to allow quality control, minimise side-effects, risk of overdose and associated medical and legal costs, but even if contamination or strength issues didn't exist, the first two reasons are compelling, in my opinion.

People are going to take drugs whether they're legal or not, so legalisation solves the problems that can actually be solved. It's time to stop being precious about the supposed 'morality' of it and be pragmatic and practical. When we allow legal drugs such as alcohol and cigarettes, any other stance is really untenable.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:51 pm

oftenwrong wrote:All of which misses the point that Administrations need something they can be against.
Something that can be trotted out to explain what use they are, if necessary.

Perhaps this is why they still use the rather pointless and generic term "drugs", in order to avoid any honest discussion that might question why our current laws categorise cocaine as the same risk as heroin, just an example of the stupidity applied to policing recreational drug use. What hope is there of educating young people honestly if the law itself is a palpable lie.

by oftenwrong Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:45 pm

Interestingly, the GOVERNMENT of Kenya is financing the legal cost of mounting an action against the British Government which has banned the import and sale in Britain of a crop called "khat".

One man's meat ....

by Dan Fante Wed Nov 06, 2013 12:53 pm

Part of the problem with this debate (apart from the hysteria in the press) is that there is a tendency to include all illegal drugs in the debate when they should (obviously) all be considered on their merits, for want of a better phrase. I find the situation around cannabis to be particularly ridiculous. Even the coppers think it's a joke.

by oftenwrong Wed Nov 06, 2013 2:02 pm

One can be slightly drunk, rather interested in dirty pictures or mildly inclined towards the pleasures of the table, but there is only one degree of drug-addiction. Once you're hooked - you're hooked. Apparently.

by **Ivan** Mon May 05, 2014 4:57 pm

Should drugs be legalised? - Page 2 BmmaD7OCAAEhUdy

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmmaD7OCAAEhUdy.jpg

by boatlady Mon May 05, 2014 7:27 pm

Interesting - if true. that's obviously the way we have to go

by oftenwrong Mon May 05, 2014 7:49 pm

Many Countries tell their Police that there is no advantage in arresting and prosecuting the holders of miniscule quantities of drugs clearly intended for personal consumption. But they are still maintained to be illegal in any quantity, so who is kidding whom?

Law conducted by nods and winks cannot be satisfactory for any purpose.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:57 pm

oftenwrong wrote:One can be slightly drunk, rather interested in dirty pictures or mildly inclined towards the pleasures of the table, but there is only one degree of drug-addiction. Once you're hooked - you're hooked. Apparently.

I think that's meant as irony,if so I agree, but of course people get addicted to alcohol, and have eating disorders which kill them, there is even supposed to such a thing as sex addiction now, if you believe it's a genuine condition of course.

How many heroine users die from addiction each year, compared to say alcohol or tobacco use?

Or for a better comparison how many of the many millions of people who've ever taken cocaine, or ecstasy for that matter, develop an addiction compared to tobacco users? As has already been suggested by some, I doubt any politician who hopes to remain a politician has the stomach for such questions or any real interest in answering them.

by oftenwrong Tue Dec 30, 2014 10:53 pm

".... how many of the many millions of people who've ever taken cocaine, or ecstasy for that matter, develop an addiction compared to tobacco users? As has already been suggested by some, I doubt any politician who hopes to remain a politician has the stomach for such questions or any real interest in answering them."

British newspapers carried reports that "soft drugs" have been legalised in at least two American States, so politicians must have been involved. Is that information not available in the USA?

by stuart torr Wed Dec 31, 2014 6:39 pm

How many of our police force are actual soft drug users? when we talk about small amounts obvious for personal use, it gets confiscated, how much of it gets handed in at the station in the officers report? think about it?

by bizziowen Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:58 pm

My youngest son died from an over-dose of assorted drugs, His life was such hell, I think he was glad to go.
We all know that drugs should be controlled, But how? I dont think any one has come up with a sensible answer to that yet.
The drug barons are so powerful, and the places where they are grown are so important to the locale, .
It would have to be done on a world wide basis, it is no good one or two countries trying to stop it.
If any one has a really good idea, lets hear it.

by oftenwrong Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:20 pm

bizziowen wrote:....The drug barons are so powerful....

Indeed they are, but criminals would have no customers if the availability of "recreational" drugs was controlled through Doctors' Surgeries and Pharmacies only to individual patients in quantities just large enough for personal use, at specified intervals.

Tax receipts would probably match those from alcohol.

by polyglide Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:57 am

If drugs are available some will use them.

The answer is education at a very young age, along with real deterants for those caught in the trade.

If it became unproffitable to be engaged in this trade it would die a natural death.

What would also help is making life better for those who suffer all the hardships in life.

by snowyflake Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:26 pm

polyglide wrote:If drugs are available some will use them.

The answer is education at a very young age, along with real deterants for those caught in the trade.

If it became unproffitable to be engaged in this trade it would die a natural death.

What would also help is making life better for those who suffer all the hardships in life.

So who should profit from the drug trade? Pharmaceutical companies? Businesses? Government? What is a real deterrent? Jail? Death penalty?

The only ones making money in the drug trade are governments and drug cartels. Even the Vatican gets some of its income through the drug cartels. Smile

There's no telling who's laundering your money.

by stuart torr Sat Feb 28, 2015 6:35 pm

Very true snowyflake, especially regarding the damn vatican who are supposed to be whiter than white.

by Phillip J H Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:27 pm

Certainly cannabis should be for medical purposes.

My partner used to smoke the stuff for all of the time and didn't have any major problems with his health until he had to give it up due to financial reasons.

The only reason that it was ever criminalised was because the pharma industries wanted to make more money out of chemical resolutions.

headbang

by stuart torr Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:19 pm

Also there were more crimes by the people hooked on it who could not afford it,. after the dealers put the prices up too.

by Phillip J H Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:53 am

My best mate came over at the weekend.

I don't touch drugs at all, but they were smoking this weed. My mate who is in his 50's said that there was LSD in it.

They were talking lots of crap but it was quite funny. Doug, despite of his health problems said that he wasn't really interested in tthat crap, even if i could afford it for him.

by stuart torr Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:32 pm

So would you actually legalise drugs if it were in your power Phil?

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:11 pm

stuart torr wrote:How many of our police force are actual soft drug users? when we talk about small amounts obvious for personal use, it gets confiscated, how much of it gets handed in at the station in the officers report? think about it?

I knew of couple of local police officers in the 80's and one of them joked about the amount of confiscated cocaine that used to disappear from the evidence room. As I said earlier the whole policy needs some objective thinking, and proper research into each recreational drug and it's associated risks, after all we allow the two biggest killers but regulate their use.

by **Ivan** Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:58 pm

14 Years After Decriminalising All Drugs, Here's What Portugal Looks Like

In 2001, the Portuguese government did something that the United States would find entirely alien. After many years of waging a fierce war on drugs, it decided to flip its strategy entirely: It decriminalised them all.

If someone is found in the possession of less than a 10-day supply of anything from marijuana to heroin, he or she is sent to a three-person Commission for the Dissuasion of Drug Addiction, typically made up of a lawyer, a doctor and a social worker. The commission recommends treatment or a minor fine; otherwise, the person is sent off without any penalty. A vast majority of the time, there is no penalty.

Fourteen years after decriminalisation, Portugal has not been run into the ground by a nation of drug addicts. In fact, by many measures, it's doing far better than it was before.

For the rest of the article:-
http://mic.com/articles/110344/14-years-after-portugal-decriminalized-all-drugs-here-s-what-s-happening

by oftenwrong Mon Feb 08, 2016 11:36 pm

Parliament is not precisely ignoring the matter, but nor is there anything much it wishes to add:

http://appg-humanrights.org.uk/?p=1089

by polyglide Tue Feb 16, 2016 3:40 pm

The way to make it unprofitable is to make it cheap to buy and overload the market.

Although that is not the answer to the problem.

At most chemists you will see a number of drug adicts awaiting their daily substute paid for by the tax payers in an endeavour to get them off the hard drugs.

A most welcome sight one may say, however, a better way would be to deter them from becoming adicts in the first place.

How this can be done I know not because the papers etc; daily show those who should know better stoned out of their tiny minds and behaving like idiots.

If drugs were made legal then things would not get worse and those enticed by the dealers into becoming adicts would be a thing of the past.

Whilst making the drugs legal would not make those opposed to them begin to indulge, it would offer many the chance to not become involved.

Every law irrespective of any potential penalty is broken every day.

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