Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

First topic message reminder :

Through the Thatcher Major, years, millions of British people were made poor as a matter of policy, while others got rich as a matter of policy.

Blair and Brown embraced Thatcherism due to the change in the British, and now Milliband wants to change Labour again due to a changed Britain.

I personally long for a political party that sticks to it's core values, that has conviction, that does not change itself to suit a greedy selfish uncaring British populas who'se only thought is "self". In my view this "self" is mainly among the British middle classes.

Thatcher changed Britain for the worse, and now we are reaping through this dreadful coalition, what has been sown.

This is what happens when the religion thread goes quiet.

I was right then. A slow day for the stirrer. Puts the old nomenclature under the microscope, What?

Tosh Quote-"Greed is good" Posted Saturday April 13th 1:02pm.

You wrote that Tosh, now you follow up with this Quote-"I do not condone greed" Today at 12:22pm.

Are you on the medicine, your backside or your head?

"I was right then"

AS EVER

Are you on the medicine, your backside or your head? Smile

I really didn't expect anyone to take my Gordon Gekko impression seriously, I was wrong.

Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God."

Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope.[63]

So, what so we think chaps? Was she telling the truth?

I was right then. A slow day for the stirrer. Puts the old nomenclature under the microscope, What?

Oh wad some power the giftie gie us
To see oursel’s as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
And foolish notion.

Tosh O'Manta

So, what so we think chaps? Was she telling the truth?

Don't be naive, she was a politician.

boatlady wrote:

Where there is discord, may we bring harmony. Where there is error, may we bring truth. Where there is doubt, may we bring faith. And where there is despair, may we bring hope.[63]

So, what so we think chaps? Was she telling the truth?

How can you tell when a Politician is not telling the truth? When you can see that their lips are moving !


ReTweet of the Day:

Paul Lewis‏@paullewismoney6h
Police confirm face known as 'Big Ben' will not be arrested for silent protest during Lady Thatcher's funeral

How can you tell when a Politician is not telling the truth?

Any good economic news is a lie, there will be no real good news until the end of this decade.

"Any good economic news is a lie, there will be no real good news until the end of this decade."

Tut tut!!!! Have you no confidence in Thatcher's children, Dave and Gideon?

"I really didn't expect anyone to take my Gordon Gekko impression seriously, I was wrong."

How on earth could you ever be wrong Tosh????
Excuses excuses!!!!!

" Have you no confidence in Thatcher's children, Dave and ....."
Sonny and Thatcher



Sonny and That Cher



Gosh- how the years have changed them...

But the melody lingers on ...

Gimme, Gimme, Gimme !

I want it all .... I want it NOW !

(Acknowledgments to Irving Berlin; Abba and Queen)

Phil,
I prefer you with the long hair and minus the dog collar.

"Gimme, Gimme, Gimme !"

MONEY, MONEY, MONEY ALSO Abba and Thatcher---"make money any way you can". Didn't she just love those tax havens?

Why is it when commentators and members of the public question why there is going to be a 'state' funeral for Mrs Thatcher, given the perceived division she brought to the country, those in favour always fall back on the fact that she was the 'First Woman' Prime Minister?

Will there be a ''state' funeral for the First Openly Gay or Black Prime Minister?

This must be some of the “freedom and democracy” which Tosh tells us that Thatcher gave the UK – pre-emptive arrests:-

Potential troublemakers are to be rounded up by police before Thatcher’s £10 million funeral as part of a huge security operation involving more than 4,000 officers. Known activists will be targeted in dawn raids over fears they will whip up violence as the former PM is laid to rest in London. Some of the 2,000 people who attended a party at Trafalgar Square on Saturday to celebrate her death were watched by police and MI5.

Ken Livingstone said: “It’s completely outrageous. We expect that in North Korea, but not here. People should be arrested if they commit a crime but not before. It’s like a thought crime and sounds like something out of 1984 – it’s very Orwellian. People have a right to protest in this country. When I was mayor we would often use tactics such as kettling at big events. But we only caught people who had committed a crime – not anyone who had not. Quite frankly if anyone is arrested before they have done anything they should sue.”

Commander Christine Jones said officers had power under the Public Order Act to make arrests if non-violent action was the cause of “harassment, alarm or distress” to mourners.

A poll in the Sunday Mirror showed 60% of people quizzed thought the taxpayer should not have to foot the bill for the funeral.

For the full article:-
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cops-plan-dawn-raids-ahead-1832813

Thatcher lives on then it seems Ivan?

However, I am more than certain that there will be a massive protest and disruption. Violence must not be condoned, that is right, but the right to protest is a democratic right, something Tory boys prefer to neglect when it suits them, as did the Witch.

Sorry can't talk just now, I am officially in mourning and tears are welling up in my eyes.

Tut tut!!!! Have you no confidence in Thatcher's children, Dave and Gideon? Shocked

As far as the economy goes I have no confidence in any politician.

Tosh wrote:-
Both our individual liberty and democracy were being threatened by the influence of an unelected special interest group called the TUC

What democracy? Unelected head of state, unelected upper house, an extreme right-wing Tory Party, which lied its way into power with the support of just 36% of those who bothered to vote, forcing through policies for which it has no mandate. A true democracy would involve real power for all those local councils emasculated by Thatcher, along with worker representation in every board room.

Trade union leaders, were and are, elected by thousands of members. Even your narrow view of democracy is threatened by the unelected corporations that have been handed many of the assets of this country, firstly by Thatcher and now by her Bullingdon Club children.

No longer could they hold governments and the public to ransom

Jeez, what a tired, lazy cliché. Is that really the best you can do? Next you’ll be quoting that far-right bigot Melanie Phillips from ‘The Daily Mail’. Oh, I see you have.

Do you deny the fact that is was the Unions who brought Ted Heath to his knees through industrial action?

Get real. The miners didn’t storm Westminster and Downing Street, murder the occupants and take over the country, though I don’t doubt a good few wish that they had. With the quadrupling of oil prices, ‘market forces’ meant that miners were suddenly much more valuable than they had been previously. Who can blame for them for wanting more than £60 a week, when their German counterparts were getting £200? Isn't that how your beloved capitalism works?

Edward Heath had his wages policy for workers, which no doubt didn’t apply to company bosses, who could have a new car and various other perks in lieu of a pay rise. Harold Wilson pragmatically suggested to Heath that if he paid miners for their waiting and bathing time, it would be an easy way to circumvent his pay policy, but Heath was too dogmatic to have any of it. Instead he called a pointless election and lost. So what if he’d won? The miners would still have been on strike.

Where is the threat to democracy? When Heath called his election about “who governs Britain?” in February 1974, the voters replied “not you, mate”.

You are up to your neck in facts, you are just too indoctrinated to see them.

You’re so up to your neck in anti-union vitriol it stops you from being rational. Unions are far more democratic than the faceless corporations who now control so much of this country – that’s Thatcher’s legacy.

socialism was tried by many countries and it failed in them all.

Socialism was tried in Britain in 1945 and was highly successful. People wanted more, because in the 1951 election Labour won what is still the highest percentage of votes in a post-war election, 48.8%. Nearly 14 million people, in a much smaller electorate, voted Labour, but because of our quirky electoral system, the Tories won the most seats (rather like Al Gore’s ‘defeat’ in the USA in 2000).

No doubt you don’t think capitalism failed with its global credit crunch in 2008?

Old Italian saying:

"At the end of the game, both Queen and Pawn are put into a box."

Socialism was tried in Britain in 1945 and was highly successful.

The welfare state was highly successful, socialism was not, it ran out of money.

Checkmate.

The money has never run out, Tosh, it's just been hoarded instead of being spent.

Incidentally, it's time to sell your Gold.

The money has never run out, Tosh, it's just been hoarded instead of being spent.

Sure, that is why we have a national debt of 1 trillion pounds sterling.

I told you to buy gold in 2008 but you just wouldn't listen.

"Sure, that is why we have a national debt of 1 trillion pounds sterling."

You've counted it, right? You're satisfied that's not just another number plucked out of the air by Tory Ministers whose main hobby is composing their Expense Accounts.

" Phil,
I prefer you with the long hair and minus the dog collar. ."

This is so sudden, Mel!

I can't think what Mrs Hornby will say, after all these years.

Actually, I can...

Thatcher’s greatest legacy: the rewriting of the seventies

Extracts from an article by Kiran Moodley:-

According to most reports, the 1970s can be condensed into the "winter of discontent". Several months of strikes in 1978 and 1979 have become the symbol of a whole decade of British politics. One of Thatcher’s greatest legacies is a rewriting of the nation’s memory that makes the 1970s appear so monumentally dire that if Thatcher hadn’t have come along, Britain would have been the Greece of the 1980s.

The economic downturn was a global one. Britain was not "the sick man of Europe" but simply another economy, once dominant, struggling. Denis Healey reduced public expenditure from 44.9% of GDP in 1974 to 42.8% in 1979, a level it remained at until the 1990s. With the economic outlook helped by new revenue from North Sea oil, the UK didn’t need all of the IMF loan and inflation fell from 24% in 1975 to 8% in 1978.

In most situations, the trade unions, in the face of difficult and unrelenting managers, attempted to avoid strikes. During the 1970s, accidents and certified illnesses accounted for roughly 320 million lost days a year, thirty times more than those caused by industrial disputes.

Throughout the late 1970s, Thatcher regularly trailed Callaghan in the polls. It would also be wrong to suggest Thatcher’s election in 1979 represented a dramatic shift; the Tory manifesto of that year was incredibly cautious. When Thatcher took over, inflation was lower, unemployment was falling and the balance of payments was strong. Unfortunately, the "winter of discontent" has created a fog over our collective memory, aided and abetted by Thatcherite propaganda that continues today from journalists and politicians who find it easier to reach for a generalisation than a history book.

For the whole article:-
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/04/thatcher%E2%80%99s-greatest-legacy-rewriting-seventies

My last word on this thread about Britain’s greatest post-war Prime Minister who transformed Britain….

The Prime Minister who changed the country without the division and confrontation that pitched striker against scab, north against south, neighbour against neighbour. The Prime Minister who left behind him the NHS and the welfare state. The Prime Minister who left behind him cradle to the grave lifelines built on fairness and inspired by socialism. I am, of course, referring to Clement Attlee.

When he died in October 1967, ‘Time’ magazine reported: “All the trappings of power were absent at the funeral of Earl Attlee, Britain’s Prime Minister from 1945 to 1951: no honour guards or artillery caissons, no press or television, no crush of spectators.” And no £10 million bill for taxpayers to pick up in a time of austerity.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/opinion/news/clement-attlee-modest-labour-leader-1831220

Strangely enough bobby that was happening all over the country. The organisers were the union leaders who were actually proud of the disruption they caused. Rock on Socialism. Wasn't "I'm a union man" at n01 at about the same time?

Have a good day today mate.

Silence please.........................ORDER.....ORDER !!

This bloody pomp and glory funeral together with the bombings in America have come at just the right time for Cameron and Gideon to smother the report from the IMF that the growth situation here in the UK is worse than any other European country.

Poor show regarding Attlee Ivan. Seems only Tories get the honours.
It's to be expected though Ivan, fairness never comes into the equasion where they are concerned.

"This is so sudden, Mel!

"I can't think what Mrs Hornby will say, after all these years."

You must teach her to SHARE Phil. (please!!)

tlttf wrote:-
Strangely enough bobby that was happening all over the country. The organisers were the union leaders who were actually proud of the disruption they caused.

Yeah, very strange. You have evidence of that, do you? Some grubby little snippets from ‘The Daily Mail’ or John Redwood perhaps? Or is this all down to your “personal experience” again? You were “all over the country” watching trade union leaders piling rubbish up in the street?

You must be really desperate in your attempt to rewrite history if that’s the best you can do. Even Goebbels would have winced at such a puerile attempt to spread bare-faced lies, at least he tried to make his credible.

the report from the IMF that the growth situation here in the UK is worse than any other European country.

The UK was identified right at the beginning of the economic crash as being its biggest casualty, our growth was built on the back of financial services, a property bubble, public sector expansion and personal consumption. If this was not bad enough, a lot of this expenditure and growth was on borrowed money, we reaped the biggest rewards and inevitably will suffer the biggest fall. In hindsight our economic well being relied too much on the proceeds of the financial service sector and to compound this error we as a nation spent too much, saved too little and did not invest in diversity.

I don't blame Labour for this, I blame the nature of politics pandering to human expectation, anyway what's done is done, and as usual the unfittest will suffer the greatest for the longest.

Progress is two steps forward and one back, no point in pointing fingers now when we are forced to take a step back. People seem to forget that it was German'y surplus that prevented a manufacturing crash in their economy, their surplus enabled them to support their industry and economy through the consumer downturn and stagnation.

In reality we are going through a suppressed depression, a slow and painful process of reducing debt to the deflated value of assets, if we do not reduce debt then the alternative is domestic inflation which will increase our debt in order to prop up the inflated high value of our assets.

We are between a rock and a hard place, inflation or deflation.

The lesson to be learned is the biggest threat to democracy and freedom is debt, and we should be intent on creating a surplus rather than living with a deficit. How we reduce our deficit without harming the weakest is a problem that faces all politicians, and I do not envy them.

Ivan,

Are you seriously suggesting the unions were blameless for the state of our industrial relations and our economy ?

What democracy? Unelected head of state, unelected upper house, an extreme right-wing Tory Party, which lied its way into power with the support of just 36% of those who bothered to vote, forcing through policies for which it has no mandate.

It is still a democratic system and our elected representatives obviously have a mandate.

A true democracy would involve real power for all those local councils emasculated by Thatcher, along with worker representation in every board room.

Workers representatives are not elected by the public, and councils are responsible to our elected house of representatives, Parliament. No more lunatics like Derek Hatton thank you very much.

Trade union leaders, were and are, elected by thousands of members. Even your narrow view of democracy is threatened by the unelected corporations that have been handed many of the assets of this country, firstly by Thatcher and now by her Bullingdon Club children.

Trade Union leaders like corporate bosses are not elected by the public, which part of democracy do you not understand ?