Is the UK honours system discredited?

Some might argue that giving out medals that refer to ‘The British Empire’, which to all intents and purposes ceased to exist about fifty years ago, immediately discredits the system, but the rot set in long before that. Lloyd George sold honours about a hundred years ago, and the practice has in effect continued ever since. For example, when the firm P&O made a donation to the Tories in 1984, its chairman, Jeffrey Stirling, received a knighthood “for services to industry” in 1985, and hardly anyone blinked an eyelid. Presumably the donations continued, because when Thatcher was forced to resign in 1990, she bumped Mr Stirling up to the status of baron. That’s why I couldn’t understand all the fuss about the so-called “cash for peerages” furore with Tony Blair, when the precedent had long been established by both Liberals and Tories.

Then along came the snake oil salesman known as Cameron, who, with his catalogue of other lies and broken promises, assured us of “transparency”. So what do we have in the latest honours list? Well, we have more than a third of all the honours going to bankers and their ilk, rewarding the parasites who caused the economic mess and aren’t doing anything useful to get us out of it. We bail out the banks, they blame the government that bailed them out and then they get the gongs for it.

One award which has attracted much attention is the knighthood for Paul Ruddock. He is a hedge fund manager who profited from the collapse of Northern Rock. His company used a practice known as “short selling” to bet on shares in the bank falling. Northern Rock subsequently failed and had to be rescued by the taxpayer. Officially Ruddock’s title is for “services to the arts”, but let’s not fool ourselves of the real service he provided – a donation of £500,000 to the Tories. I wonder how long it will be before Andy Coulson gets a knighthood or a peerage, no doubt for “services to journalism”? After all, he did siphon money from Murdoch into the Tory coffers as discreetly as possible.

Another controversial award is the CBE for millionaire property tycoon Gerald Ronson, whose company built the tallest skyscraper in the City of London. Apparently Mr Ronson has given money to charity, but this is a man who served six months of a one-year sentence after being convicted of theft, conspiracy and accounting fraud following the Guinness share-trading scandal in 1990. His wife also recently received an honour. The man has done his time, you might say (though not very much of it), and he should be allowed to move on, and I would agree. However, there’s no need to honour him, is there? There are plenty of people who do their bit for good causes, including many elderly ladies in charity shops on every high street in the country. They aren’t all getting gongs, and I doubt if very many of them have been to prison.

Ronnie Corbett has received a gong, and like his golfing chum Bruce Forsyth, who was rewarded last time, both are known to be Tories. Helena Bonham Carter probably deserves her award since she’s an accomplished actress, but it’s probably no coincidence that she’s a personal friend of Dave and Samantha.

A further contentious award is the OBE given to Christopher Preddie, a north London former gang member who used to be involved with drugs. His brother was shot and two of his cousins are in jail after being found guilty of killing schoolboy Damilola Taylor in 2000. The father of the murdered boy is understandably upset over this award.

Michael Dugher, the Shadow Cabinet Office minister, said: “David Cameron promised to clean up politics, but in office he has shown he is utterly out of touch with decent British people. He’s giving a knighthood to Paul Ruddock, who made millions from the collapse of Northern Rock and has given over half a million pounds to the Tories. This tells you everything you need to know about the Tories’ priorities. At a time when millions of families are struggling to get by, it’s the Tories’ friends in the City who get the rewards.”

We’ve come a long way from all the fuss there was back in 1965 when the Beatles were awarded the MBE, prompting gin-soaked Tory colonels in the shires to return their war medals in disgust. Nowadays you can fight for your country and be told that you’re being sacked while you’re still on duty in Afghanistan, or being sacked because your injuries have left you disabled. You can then become part of the growing number of job-seekers unable to find work because of the failed policies of this hideous government, and you can be treated like the scum of the earth and forced to do community work alongside convicted criminals. On the other hand, you can give money to the Tories, deal in drugs, take part in fraud, and maybe receive a gong. That’s Cameron’s idea of using the honours system to reward those who play a role in his fatuous ‘Big Society’.

The UK honours system has been corrupt for years and is simply a way of awarding people who have donated in cash or kind or a service to which ever UK political party is in power. A smokescreen was created a few years ago by Labour when they allowed ordinary people to be nominated but the majority are still given to cronies.
 
There will be a chance for an overhaul when firstly Britain no longer exists and then eventually the UK.
 
Scotland will grant you - your English independence!

You'd better hope that Alex lives forever, as nobody else seems capable of running Scotland.

(Anyone remember the Rt Hon Henry McLeish MSP MP?)

Henry McLeish an MSP representing the Labour Party in Scotland.
 
I'm sure Alex's successor is already being positioned after he has declared himself the Chancellor of an Independent Scotland continuing the 1700 years of history prior to the union of 1707.

Don't you have to be a toad to get in to the shit club?

......effing sycophants and traitors

Probably the most famous decoration for bravery in war is the Victoria Cross, awarded only in very exceptional circumstances by the governments of Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the UK.

Has anyone considered or proposed changing the name of the Victoria Cross ?, after all, Queen Victoria has been dead over 100 years, or is it the historical connotation of the name that counts ?, and is it not the same with such awards as the Order of the British Empire, an acknowledgement of something very old, an award that is historical and has a long history, even though the British Empire has long gone.

With reagard to recipients, I personaly believe that the vast majority of the awards go to deserving people - the lady who has got up early every morning for 40 years to see children safely accross the road, no matter what the weather - the ordinary man who lives in an ordinary street who has given thousands of hours of his own time raising money for a local charity or good cause.

Then there are the professionals who recieve awards, the scientist who has contributed towards a medical breakthrough - a musician or entertainer who sets aside time for charity and has contributed to the music industry - a surgeon who has advanced medicine.

And lets not forget that most awards are made after been nominated by members of the public, and I feel that its good to have such awards and titles which recognise and acknowledge the many good works and deeds carried out by the unknown and the famous.

I feel that its good to have such awards and titles which recognise and acknowledge the many good works and deeds carried out by the unknown and the famous.

But aren't such awards devalued when they're also given to drug dealers, convicted criminals and party donors?

Sir,

The UK's Honours System is to be highly commended as a just reward for public service of the most exceptional kind.

Yours faithfully

Sir Philip Hornby. OBE
Much Touting-in-the-Club
Nr. Pease Pottage

Ivan,
The welfare system is abused but I wouldent contemplate doing away with the welfare state, I agree that politicians abuse the system, so alter the system whereby there cannot be political influence.

Same with appointing the head of the BBC, same with making recommendation to The Queen on the appointment of the Archbishop of Canterbury, these things ought to be done by a committee, consisting of all parties, preferably elder statesmen.

Or give these tasks to the Privy Council, which is an advisory council to the Crown, it acts as a bridge between elected law makers and the Crown, and as such is an ideal institution to be adapted to deal with such matters.

The Honours System is cheaper than the alternatives.

Ivan wrote: That’s why I couldn’t understand all the fuss about the so-called “cash for peerages” furore with Tony Blair, when the precedent had long been established by both Liberals and Tories.

"Long been established by both Liberals and Tories", you forgot to mention "and Labour".

The Prime Minister's resignation honours list - traditionally the last act of a serving Premier -is in jeopardy because of the cash-for-peerages scandal.
The House of Lords Appointments Commission, which will vet the list, has warned it will block any attempt to stuff the Upper House with wealthy Labour donors and political advisers.
The independent Commission is desperate to prevent a repeat of Harold Wilson's notorious 'Lavender List' of 1976 in which controversial businessmen were nominated for gongs.
It took several months of wrangling before the Commission blocked four businessmen who secretly bankrolled Labour's 2005 General Election campaign - which triggered the current Scotland Yard investigation into the alleged sale of honours.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-435213/Blair-cronies-honours-list-scrutiny-wake-cash-honours-scandal.html#ixzz1iELepLwP

Americans (in particular) seem to be mesmerised by a British "Sir" or "Lord" but are confused when they learn that someone has been awarded the title of Dame.

[quote="Ivan"]

And look - I can shout as well.

Ivan, apoligises if you thought I was shouting, I was merely highlighting the fact that the Honours list has been abused for years by all parties including Labour. The honours system is not at risk of being brought into disrepute, it has been abused probably since it's inception. So there is absolutely no reason for the Labour Party to complain since they are equally guilty of this behaviour whatever guise it was presented under.
I hope we are both in agreement that no party donors should be awarded with honours of any sort. There are far more deserving people out there, and the sooner a independent committee free from political influence is set up the better.

Most of us have an instinct for something which is "just plain WRONG", but few are gifted with the ability to provide an articulate explanation. Thank Heavens, therefore, for someone like Yasmin Alibhai-Brown writing in today's Independent about "Honours". ...........................

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/yasmin-alibhaibrown-honours-that-show-the-old-order-reasserting-itself-6284033.html

the sooner an independent committee free from political influence is set up the better.

atv. At least we can agree on that, but how you can ensure that it would be independent is another matter, everyone has their prejudices. Witchfinder’s idea of it being the Privy Council is not the answer, since that’s stuffed full of politicians, including about half of the present Cabinet.

I suppose the corruption element in all of this comes back to party funding. I doubt if there is much appetite for state-funded political parties from people losing their jobs and homes, or from anyone else for that matter. All parties get some income from individual membership, but the Tories like to make much of Labour’s receipts from tens of thousands of trade union members, which any member can opt out of paying. The Tories, who invariably have more money to spend, rely heavily on donations from big business, out of which nobody can opt. I don’t know if Tate & Lyle still make regular donations to the Tories, but you aren't given the chance to pay slightly less for a bag of sugar if you don’t wish to contribute!

Cameron milked the expenses scandal for all it was worth, despite the fact that there were just as many Tory swindlers as there were Labour ones (even though there were far fewer Tory MPs at the time). He promised to clean up politics, and to give us greater transparency, but he’s done neither, as the knighthood for Paul Ruddock shows, along with this comment from Yasmin Alibhai-Brown: “You never know about the nomination process, who decides, and you can't talk about getting an offer. It is all to keep up the mystique and draw you into a dodgy, conspiratorial club.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/yasmin-alibhai-brown/yasmin-alibhaibrown-honours-that-show-the-old-order-reasserting-itself-6284033.html

The Honourable Members of Parliament have STILL not agreed to full disclosure of their expenses, and the steaming cesspit of "lobbying" shows no sign of being curbed, despite the resignation of Liam Fox.

Ivan wrote:Michael Dugher, the Shadow Cabinet Office minister, said: “David Cameron promised to clean up politics, but in office he has shown he is utterly out of touch with decent British people. He’s giving a knighthood to Paul Ruddock, who made millions from the collapse of Northern Rock and has given over half a million pounds to the Tories. This tells you everything you need to know about the Tories’ priorities. At a time when millions of families are struggling to get by, it’s the Tories’ friends in the City who get the rewards.”

We’ve come a long way from all the fuss there was back in 1965 when the Beatles were awarded the MBE, prompting gin-soaked Tory colonels in the shires to return their war medals in disgust.  Nowadays you can fight for your country and be told that you’re being sacked while you’re still on duty in Afghanistan, or being sacked because your injuries have left you disabled.  You can then become part of the growing number of job-seekers unable to find work because of the failed policies of this hideous government, and you can be treated like the scum of the earth and forced to do community work alongside convicted criminals.  On the other hand, you can give money to the Tories, deal in drugs, take part in fraud, and maybe receive a gong.  That’s Cameron’s idea of using the honours system to reward those who play a role in his fatuous ‘Big Society’.

Did you know that he gave a gong to the guy that went to prison for twelve months for the Guiness scandal to get a gong off Cameron you have to be a rogue vagabond junkie or a hedge fund manager putting it bluntly be able to pour plenty into Tory party funds you will always get a pay back when there in power, so I hope Ed Miliband is taking notice of this and "if and when" Labour gets back into power he REALLY does clean up politics.

".... gave a gong to the guy that went to prison for twelve months for the Guiness scandal.... "

The Tory Mother-hen always looks after its chicks. No matter how long it takes.

oftenwrong wrote:".... gave a gong to the guy that went to prison for twelve months for the Guiness scandal.... "

The Tory Mother-hen always looks after its chicks. No matter how long it takes.

There is going to be fun and games in the months to come as it has been said that the EU will bring in the Robin Hood Tax by the end of this year and it will be operational in the UK so what is Cameron do about that. I hope the Tory mother hen knows egg shells break and all chick do not survive the birth

oftenwrong wrote:".... gave a gong to the guy that went to prison for twelve months for the Guiness scandal.... "

The Tory Mother-hen always looks after its chicks. No matter how long it takes.

How very true this is OftenRight ha ha

Redflag wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:".... gave a gong to the guy that went to prison for twelve months for the Guiness scandal.... "

The Tory Mother-hen always looks after its chicks. No matter how long it takes.

There is going to be fun and games in the months to come as it has been said that the EU will bring in the Robin Hood Tax by the end of this year and it will be operational in the UK so what is Cameron do about that. I hope the Tory mother hen knows egg shells break and all chick do not survive the birth

I find the whole question of the Robin Hoods tax very interesting. as it will interesting to see how the Tory party worm there way out of it. as the truth is Red the Robin Hood tax is peanut's to City of London. but they will play up over this as if its life and death for them. hell they always do.

The honours system could be a great thing, Get as many medals as possible, pin them all on Thatcher and Herr Cameron, then sling them in the Thames.

oftenwrong wrote:The Honourable Members of Parliament have STILL not agreed to full disclosure of their expenses, and the steaming cesspit of "lobbying" shows no sign of being curbed, despite the resignation of Liam Fox.

I know your not naive but did you really think that things would change with a Tory led Gov't in charge, and I can not see the "lobbying" being regulated anytime soon either.

We need a better word than "trough". Even pigs aren't so shameless as our elected representatives.

An honours system for those who fight to make Britain a better place

Extracts from an article by Owen Jones:-

Handing out ‘Orders of the British Empire’ strikes me as tasteless. Poet Benjamin Zephaniah turned down his OBE nearly a decade ago because "it reminds me of how my foremothers were raped and my forefathers brutalised". He has a point: as a country we're far from coming to terms with the barbarity of empire. As Mike Davis points out in the seminal ‘Late Victorian Holocausts’, millions of Indians starved to death in unnecessary famines under British rule. It is surely possible to recognise achievements without celebrating this murderous era.

It's not just the name that's the problem. These days, we barely even blink at the fact honours are routinely handed out by Prime Ministers to their mates or to establishment patsies. Sometimes it appears that making contributions to party coffers – rather than to society – is the way to get a knighthood. Those who have actually contributed to society generally end up with the bargain basement honour, the MBE.

Let's ditch the whole system and start from scratch. Instead of knighthoods for wealthy parasites, let's have a new honour, which could be called Pillars of Society. Establishment types would be barred; let's stop celebrating wealth and power for the sake of it. Instead, let's start by recognising the efforts of those increasingly demonised as "vested public sector interests" who "leach off the taxpayer": like nurses, refuse collectors, lollipop ladies and teachers.

Such an honours system would mean challenging the way we look at society. Rather than venerating the well-heeled and well-connected, we'd be more interested in championing working people and those who fight to make Britain a better place.

For the whole article:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/01/honours-system-britain-better-place

Ivan wrote:An honours system for those who fight to make Britain a better place

.... an article by Owen Jones ....

For the whole article:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/feb/01/honours-system-britain-better-place

Anybody older than twelve understands the hidden agenda of our "Honours" system, which is the natural successor to Caesar's Bread and circuses tradition of soothing Rome's plebeians. We can all tell the difference between a genuinely deserved Recognition and a mutual back-scratching arrangement, so there is probably little harm in the process.

In the USA, which obviously has no such Royal Honours, Captains of Industry and suchlike demand their recognition in Dollar Millions of headline salary.

From the New Year's Honours List:-

(Lino) Raffaele Claudio Carbosiero. Hair Stylist. For services to hairdressing. (London): MBE

He's probably a good hairdresser, as he charges £90 a cut - but why the honour? Could it be anything to do with the fact that he's Cameron's hairdresser?  

But Cameron's hair IS a bit of a challenge - always looks in poor condition and I bet he has dandruff

Cameron's Hairdresser honoured. Undoubtedly justified. But what about the bloke who farts for him and the other one who takes a dump so that the Prime Minister doesn't have to stop errr, ministering in a prime manner?

There were precedents, of course:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_life_peerages_(1997%E2%80%932010)

These are some of the people who, over the years, have refused to accept honours:-

Honor Blackman, Danny Boyle, Jim Broadbent, John Cleese, Albert Finney, Trevor Howard, Hattie Jacques, Ken Loach, Ian McDiarmid, Malcolm McDowell, Bill Nighy, Alan Rickman, Paul Scofield, Michael Winner.

https://uk.yahoo.com/movies/the-movie-stars-who-snubbed-royal-honours-106704772506.html

Here we go again - four multimillionaires, who between them have donated £4 million to the Tory Party, have been given honours in the list supposedly to mark Mrs Windsor's birthday........  

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/queens-birthday-honours-tory-party-5873963

Bribery is now respectable. Better the Devil you know, perhaps.

More cronyism. Last year Cameron's hairdresser was given an MBE. Before that, his tennis pal Feldman was given a peerage. The word now is that the non-dom dirty tricks specialist Lynton Crosby is in line for a knighthood in the New Year Honours List for his 'public service'.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CXOFMmMWwAAimNw.jpg

Even more blatant

It can't be long before we'll either be able to find a voucher for a Knighthood in our breakfast cereal packets or buy one on e-bay.