How British funding of our essential services has worked since Thatcher in the 80s

When Margaret Thatcher took office in the 80's, one of the things she did was to cut income tax for all British workers, and so since the 80's, Britain's vital services at national level have been funded via what is politically known as "right wing, low income tax, trickle down economics".

That's it in a nut shell.

I'm sure we all feel much better for learning that.

oftenwrong wrote:I'm sure we all feel much better for learning that.

Keep carrying the board. It looks good on you.

Ivanhoe wrote:When Margaret Thatcher took office in the 80's, one of the things she did was to cut income tax for all British workers, and so since the 80's, Britain's vital services at national level have been funded via what is politically known as "right wing, low income tax, trickle down economics".

That's it in a nut shell.

a more than fair summary Ivanhoe...and so far it has lead to low services overall in my own view..

Stox 16 wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:When Margaret Thatcher took office in the 80's, one of the things she did was to cut income tax for all British workers, and so since the 80's, Britain's vital services at national level have been funded via what is politically known as "right wing, low income tax, trickle down economics".

That's it in a nut shell.

a more than fair summary Ivanhoe...and so far it has lead to low services overall in my own view..

Yes you are right Stox 16. The Tory right wing always use tax cuts to get votes off the politically docile British public, so they can get into government, and run down our vital services at local and national level, so they can privatise them.

Far to many people in Britain in my view, simply have no idea of politics, or political ideoligies.

Cameron is doing now, what Thatcher started in the 80's, he is removing the role of the State, in favour of privatisation and charities. That's it, in a nutshell.

Youve got a lot of nut shells Ivanhoe.

bobby wrote:Youve got a lot of nut shells Ivanhoe.

I must be crackers, bobby.

Amazing how the Tories have managed to forget thirteen years in Opposition as though it had just been a bad-hair-day.

oftenwrong wrote:Amazing how the Tories have managed to forget thirteen years in Opposition as though it had just been a bad-hair-day.

Baring in mind the Tory's got votes at the last G/E, it is also amazing how, after 18 years of Tory rule in Britain, the Tory's got any votes at all, albeit I well realise that the British have got short memories when it comes to politics.

Quotes from Ivanhoe.

The Tory right wing always use tax cuts to get votes off the politically docile British public, so they can get into government, and run down our vital services at local and national level, so they can privatise them.
Is that practise now in operation with the LibDems. Quoting (roughly) Nick Clegg 'that's why we want to bring in the £10.000 Tax threshold. And I thought he really cared about the poor

Quote
albeit I well realise that the British have got short memories when it comes to politics.

Actually I remember when the Whig Party 'transformed' into the Liberal Party. 1860 approx. I was still in knickerbockers

Being serious for a moment. Don't you think it's in mans nature to think about short term gains, as opposed to long term advantages which may not come. Most posters on here are thinking people who have taken an interest in Politics/economics etc. People like myself are not gifted with economic and political knowhow. We learn as we go on, sometimes the hard way.
I'm not talking about sciences, careers etc. but mans nature is short term thinking. Just everyday living.
If someone were unemployed and on benefit and they were offered £100 for a couple of hours work, my guess is they would take it, and blow any consequences if unfortunately found out later.
I think the general population are more concerned about the here and now.
Life is a daily struggle for so many who do not have time to really think about 'tomorrow'.
Perhaps we should change our school system. Instead of sex education in primary schools we should teach politics - erm - Sex - politics. Both can produce unwanted results. Forget it
Perhaps the politicians have got it right. We do have short term memories -er - er - Ivanhoe.

trevorw2539 wrote:
Quotes from Ivanhoe.

The Tory right wing always use tax cuts to get votes off the politically docile British public, so they can get into government, and run down our vital services at local and national level, so they can privatise them.
Is that practise now in operation with the LibDems. Quoting (roughly) Nick Clegg 'that's why we want to bring in the £10.000 Tax threshold. And I thought he really cared about the poor

Quote
albeit I well realise that the British have got short memories when it comes to politics.

Actually I remember when the Whig Party 'transformed' into the Liberal Party. 1860 approx. I was still in knickerbockers

Being serious for a moment. Don't you think it's in mans nature to think about short term gains, as opposed to long term advantages which may not come. Most posters on here are thinking people who have taken an interest in Politics/economics etc. People like myself are not gifted with economic and political knowhow. We learn as we go on, sometimes the hard way.
I'm not talking about sciences, careers etc. but mans nature is short term thinking. Just everyday living.
If someone were unemployed and on benefit and they were offered £100 for a couple of hours work, my guess is they would take it, and blow any consequences if unfortunately found out later.
I think the general population are more concerned about the here and now.
Life is a daily struggle for so many who do not have time to really think about 'tomorrow'.
Perhaps we should change our school system. Instead of sex education in primary schools we should teach politics - erm - Sex - politics. Both can produce unwanted results. Forget it
Perhaps the politicians have got it right. We do have short term memories -er - er - Ivanhoe.

Trevor, I am well aware of what you say, having been there and done it from aged 15 when I left school in the 1960's. The short memory that I am talking about is regarding politics and the Thatcher years starting over 30 years ago in 1979.

The Brit's largely are not political animals you see, hence the coalition we have today, where the Lib-Dems are hanging on by their fingers tips, because they know they will be dashed at the next G/E.

Ivanhoe wrote:

trevorw2539 wrote:
Quotes from Ivanhoe.

The Tory right wing always use tax cuts to get votes off the politically docile British public, so they can get into government, and run down our vital services at local and national level, so they can privatise them.
Is that practise now in operation with the LibDems. Quoting (roughly) Nick Clegg 'that's why we want to bring in the £10.000 Tax threshold. And I thought he really cared about the poor

Quote
albeit I well realise that the British have got short memories when it comes to politics.

Actually I remember when the Whig Party 'transformed' into the Liberal Party. 1860 approx. I was still in knickerbockers

Being serious for a moment. Don't you think it's in mans nature to think about short term gains, as opposed to long term advantages which may not come. Most posters on here are thinking people who have taken an interest in Politics/economics etc. People like myself are not gifted with economic and political knowhow. We learn as we go on, sometimes the hard way.
I'm not talking about sciences, careers etc. but mans nature is short term thinking. Just everyday living.
If someone were unemployed and on benefit and they were offered £100 for a couple of hours work, my guess is they would take it, and blow any consequences if unfortunately found out later.
I think the general population are more concerned about the here and now.
Life is a daily struggle for so many who do not have time to really think about 'tomorrow'.
Perhaps we should change our school system. Instead of sex education in primary schools we should teach politics - erm - Sex - politics. Both can produce unwanted results. Forget it
Perhaps the politicians have got it right. We do have short term memories -er - er - Ivanhoe.

Trevor, I am well aware of what you say, having been there and done it from aged 15 when I left school in the 1960's. The short memory that I am talking about is regarding politics and the Thatcher years starting over 30 years ago in 1979.

The Brit's largely are not political animals you see, hence the coalition we have today, where the Lib-Dems are hanging on by their fingers tips, because they know they will be dashed at the next G/E.

Your quite right Ivanhoe i have just become political since May 2010, like you I left school in the 1960s at the age of 15 but since May 2010 i have become a real political animal I think its because we see things more clearly and of course have more experience of life.

Redflag wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:

trevorw2539 wrote:
Quotes from Ivanhoe.

The Tory right wing always use tax cuts to get votes off the politically docile British public, so they can get into government, and run down our vital services at local and national level, so they can privatise them.
Is that practise now in operation with the LibDems. Quoting (roughly) Nick Clegg 'that's why we want to bring in the £10.000 Tax threshold. And I thought he really cared about the poor

Quote
albeit I well realise that the British have got short memories when it comes to politics.

Actually I remember when the Whig Party 'transformed' into the Liberal Party. 1860 approx. I was still in knickerbockers

Being serious for a moment. Don't you think it's in mans nature to think about short term gains, as opposed to long term advantages which may not come. Most posters on here are thinking people who have taken an interest in Politics/economics etc. People like myself are not gifted with economic and political knowhow. We learn as we go on, sometimes the hard way.
I'm not talking about sciences, careers etc. but mans nature is short term thinking. Just everyday living.
If someone were unemployed and on benefit and they were offered £100 for a couple of hours work, my guess is they would take it, and blow any consequences if unfortunately found out later.
I think the general population are more concerned about the here and now.
Life is a daily struggle for so many who do not have time to really think about 'tomorrow'.
Perhaps we should change our school system. Instead of sex education in primary schools we should teach politics - erm - Sex - politics. Both can produce unwanted results. Forget it
Perhaps the politicians have got it right. We do have short term memories -er - er - Ivanhoe.

Trevor, I am well aware of what you say, having been there and done it from aged 15 when I left school in the 1960's. The short memory that I am talking about is regarding politics and the Thatcher years starting over 30 years ago in 1979.

The Brit's largely are not political animals you see, hence the coalition we have today, where the Lib-Dems are hanging on by their fingers tips, because they know they will be dashed at the next G/E.

Your quite right Ivanhoe i have just become political since May 2010, like you I left school in the 1960s at the age of 15 but since May 2010 i have become a real political animal I think its because we see things more clearly and of course have more experience of life.

Redflag,

My introduction to British politics began when Thatcher was minister for education in what I refere to asTed Heath's decent left of centre small "c" Conservative Goverment. Thatcher stole free school milk from the children.

I thought then that if "that woman" ever becomes Prime Minister of this country, we are finished as a civilised caring nation.

In the late 80's, before Tony Blair sold tradiitional Labour values to the right and adopted all of Thatcher's policies, I was a Labour activist and proud to be so, because traditional Labour's cores values, were also my values.

This week I recieved my new bill from Yorkshire Water, and along with the new bill was a leaflet explaining why water charges are rising by 8% this year.

On the same day I read in a local newspaper that Eric Pickles was heavily criticising local councils in North Yorkshire for contemplating raising Council Tax by 3%, and that he felt that local tax should be frozen.

If millions of people accross the country are having their wages and salaries frozen, and even cut, how is it that a private utility company can raise its prices by twice the rate of inflation, and no one, not even a government minister blinks an eye.

It seems to me that private companies can do anything they want, including screwing the working man, whilst public and state institutions and services are treated like dirt.

Were all in this together ? -- dont make me laugh

witchfinder wrote:This week I recieved my new bill from Yorkshire Water, and along with the new bill was a leaflet explaining why water charges are rising by 8% this year.

On the same day I read in a local newspaper that Eric Pickles was heavily criticising local councils in North Yorkshire for contemplating raising Council Tax by 3%, and that he felt that local tax should be frozen.

If millions of people accross the country are having their wages and salaries frozen, and even cut, how is it that a private utility company can raise its prices by twice the rate of inflation, and no one, not even a government minister blinks an eye.

It seems to me that private companies can do anything they want, including screwing the working man, whilst public and state institutions and services are treated like dirt.

Were all in this together ? -- dont make me laugh

Witchfinder, It's called the free market, and it was brought in by Thatcher in the 80's when she also privatised our Utilities, and it's a free market that UK voters have continued voting for, because for example, people like pushing up house prices and making a profit at the expense of their own fellow country men and woman.

Cameron's "whe are all in this together", is simply a little gimmicky name that he threw ito the mix since this coalition was formed, so the media would have something to chew on, while Cameron removes the role of the State in favour of privastisation and Charities, which he isnt challenged about.

Cameron is a smug elite right wing Tory, who cares as much about the poor, the old, the disabled, and the young unemployed, as Hitler did about the Jews and other ethnic minorities, im just wondering when the Tory faithfull are gonna wake up to this beast ?

Ivanhoe wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:Amazing how the Tories have managed to forget thirteen years in Opposition as though it had just been a bad-hair-day.

Baring in mind the Tory's got votes at the last G/E, it is also amazing how, after 18 years of Tory rule in Britain, the Tory's got any votes at all, albeit I well realise that the British have got short memories when it comes to politics.

We have got short memories when it comes too politics Ivanhoe, to think the people that voted Tory forgot all about the Poll Tax debacle unbelievable that we could forget that and all of our public services that where privatized under the last Tory Gov't within there 18 year rule.

Redflag wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:Amazing how the Tories have managed to forget thirteen years in Opposition as though it had just been a bad-hair-day.

Baring in mind the Tory's got votes at the last G/E, it is also amazing how, after 18 years of Tory rule in Britain, the Tory's got any votes at all, albeit I well realise that the British have got short memories when it comes to politics.

We have got short memories when it comes too politics Ivanhoe, to think the people that voted Tory forgot all about the Poll Tax debacle unbelievable that we could forget that and all of our public services that where privatized under the last Tory Gov't within there 18 year rule.

I could not agree more Redflag. You go out on the street now, and you talk to people. I bet the majory say "the deficit must be reduced". And why will they say that ?

Because they have been brainwashed. And because they have not got a clue about right wing ideoligy, that of reducing the role of the State in favoiur of privisation and charities.

I dont write from any political stance, I just know what the right of the Tory party in Government are capable of, because I have educated myself into it since Thatcher and her demonisation of the role of the State.

I dont have a short memory Redflag.

Ivanhoe wrote:I could not agree more Redflag. You go out on the street now, and you talk to people. I bet the majory say "the deficit must be reduced". And why will they say that ?

Because they have been brainwashed.

Do you actually go out on the street, because the deficit is the last thing they talk about.
Terrorists walking the streets getting benefits, immigration and crime, unemployment and prices, this is what people are more concerned about, even the NHS is not high on their concerns, and before you ask I go with my Father to an Ex-servicemens club in Birmingham and My Fathers local Labour club, and most are more concerned about the price of their pint of mild, and I don't believe they read the Daily Mail although they may read the Sun.

atv wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:I could not agree more Redflag. You go out on the street now, and you talk to people. I bet the majory say "the deficit must be reduced". And why will they say that ?

Because they have been brainwashed.

Do you actually go out on the street, because the deficit is the last thing they talk about.
Terrorists walking the streets getting benefits, immigration and crime, unemployment and prices, this is what people are more concerned about, even the NHS is not high on their concerns, and before you ask I go with my Father to an Ex-servicemens club in Birmingham and My Fathers local Labour club, and most are more concerned about the price of their pint of mild, and I don't believe they read the Daily Mail although they may read the Sun.

atv, Your posting sums up much about Britain and the British largely.

First of all regarding going out on the street, I was putting forward going out on the street and actually "finding" people who actually "had" an answer, no matter what that answer might be.

Some people can mentally rise above the banal. And your talking about terrorists walking the streets claiming benefits is the sort of drivel Murdoch relies on to sell his rags. Immigration is another scapegoat for the ills of this country.

You say, most are concerned about the price of a pint of mild". And doesnt this just about sum up the mentailty of the British people largely and generally.

Britain is a dump due to the low grade mentality of the British people in general thinking more of soccer, their soaps, their fags, and their beer, than they do about national, and some might say, intellectual concerns, and it is this attutude that is the core reason for Britain's ills.

Ivanhoe wrote:

Redflag wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:

trevorw2539 wrote:
Quotes from Ivanhoe.

The Tory right wing always use tax cuts to get votes off the politically docile British public, so they can get into government, and run down our vital services at local and national level, so they can privatise them.
Is that practise now in operation with the LibDems. Quoting (roughly) Nick Clegg 'that's why we want to bring in the £10.000 Tax threshold. And I thought he really cared about the poor

Quote
albeit I well realise that the British have got short memories when it comes to politics.

Actually I remember when the Whig Party 'transformed' into the Liberal Party. 1860 approx. I was still in knickerbockers

Being serious for a moment. Don't you think it's in mans nature to think about short term gains, as opposed to long term advantages which may not come. Most posters on here are thinking people who have taken an interest in Politics/economics etc. People like myself are not gifted with economic and political knowhow. We learn as we go on, sometimes the hard way.
I'm not talking about sciences, careers etc. but mans nature is short term thinking. Just everyday living.
If someone were unemployed and on benefit and they were offered £100 for a couple of hours work, my guess is they would take it, and blow any consequences if unfortunately found out later.
I think the general population are more concerned about the here and now.
Life is a daily struggle for so many who do not have time to really think about 'tomorrow'.
Perhaps we should change our school system. Instead of sex education in primary schools we should teach politics - erm - Sex - politics. Both can produce unwanted results. Forget it
Perhaps the politicians have got it right. We do have short term memories -er - er - Ivanhoe.

Trevor, I am well aware of what you say, having been there and done it from aged 15 when I left school in the 1960's. The short memory that I am talking about is regarding politics and the Thatcher years starting over 30 years ago in 1979.

The Brit's largely are not political animals you see, hence the coalition we have today, where the Lib-Dems are hanging on by their fingers tips, because they know they will be dashed at the next G/E.

Your quite right Ivanhoe i have just become political since May 2010, like you I left school in the 1960s at the age of 15 but since May 2010 i have become a real political animal I think its because we see things more clearly and of course have more experience of life.

Redflag,

My introduction to British politics began when Thatcher was minister for education in what I refere to asTed Heath's decent left of centre small "c" Conservative Goverment. Thatcher stole free school milk from the children.

I thought then that if "that woman" ever becomes Prime Minister of this country, we are finished as a civilised caring nation.

In the late 80's, before Tony Blair sold tradiitional Labour values to the right and adopted all of Thatcher's policies, I was a Labour activist and proud to be so, because traditional Labour's cores values, were also my values.

Hi Ivanhoe I remember Thatcher the MILK SNATCHER it was my kids that had to suffer the snatching along with others, maybe since you where an activist you can explain why Tony Blair never gave back to the Unions some of there rights that Thatcher had taken away that is one thing that puzzled me at the time, because Mental Maggie had taken the Unions to the Dentists and extracted there teeth.

Sorry Redflag, I cant explain why Blair did that.  I was an activist, prior to Blarism.

atv wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:I could not agree more Redflag. You go out on the street now, and you talk to people. I bet the majory say "the deficit must be reduced". And why will they say that ?

Because they have been brainwashed.

Do you actually go out on the street, because the deficit is the last thing they talk about.
Terrorists walking the streets getting benefits, immigration and crime, unemployment and prices, this is what people are more concerned about, even the NHS is not high on their concerns, and before you ask I go with my Father to an Ex-servicemens club in Birmingham and My Fathers local Labour club, and most are more concerned about the price of their pint of mild, and I don't believe they read the Daily Mail although they may read the Sun.

atv, P.S. The next time you meet those pensioners whom I have every respect for by the way, due to my life in my country being hard fought and won by amongst others, this generation, please tell them this with regard to Eastern European immigrants coming to Britain to work.

If these poor people find a job, they have to work for one full year without being unemployed, it is only then that they receive any benefits, but then they only receive one third of what British claiments receive. And Asylum seekers, althought not merntioned, im still saying, do not get benefits, because by law they are not allowed to work. These poor people are given vouchers, and housing, because they are deemed more needy after fleeing their countries.

The fact that there is not enough social housing in this country to go round, is neither the fault of Eastern European's, or Asylum seekers. It is the fault of Margaret Thatcher who stopped building council house to rent during her term of office, and John Major from his election in 1992, didnt build any either.

And who put these people into power ?. You now have your answer to this country's ills.

I have written this, not due to any political affiliation, they are simply facts.

As far as Terrorists are concerned, Britain has been playing the "Great Britain" tag since forever, because it suits our empiralistic ego's. When we invasde other countries under the guize of democracy, but in truth it's oil, we are terrorists in these country's also

During this weekend I was casually chatting to two 19 year-old lads who had enjoyed a reasonable education thus far, but it became clear that neither of them had any real idea about the distinction between the public and private sectors. They could not distinguish what activities, for example, would be likely typically to fall into the public sector. They could not say for sure which of the sectors their parents worked for and , in guessing, got it wrong!

Not sure what this tells us, if it is a widespread phenomenon...

Possibly those youngsters have instinctively grasped that it doesn't make much sense to differentiate between Public and Private employment.

Each depends upon the other for its existence.

Phil Hornby wrote:During this weekend I was casually chatting to two 19 year-old lads who had enjoyed a reasonable education thus far, but it became clear that neither of them had any real idea about the distinction between the public and private sectors. They could not distinguish what activities, for example, would be likely typically to fall into the public sector. They could not say for sure which of the sectors their parents worked for and , in guessing, got it wrong!

Not sure what this tells us, if it is a widespread phenomenon...

I would say that your observation just about sums up the majority of the British public, which is why there are some young people who also dont know their political a-r-s-e , from their elbow.

Kids today? What can you do with 'em?

oftenwrong wrote:Kids today? What can you do with 'em?

Nothing, they are growing up, which is more than can be said for their parents.

'ole world's mad, cept thee and me.

Ivanhoe wrote:

Phil Hornby wrote:During this weekend I was casually chatting to two 19 year-old lads who had enjoyed a reasonable education thus far, but it became clear that neither of them had any real idea about the distinction between the public and private sectors. They could not distinguish what activities, for example, would be likely typically to fall into the public sector. They could not say for sure which of the sectors their parents worked for and , in guessing, got it wrong!

Not sure what this tells us, if it is a widespread phenomenon...

I would say that your observation just about sums up the majority of the British public, which is why there are some young people who also dont know their political a-r-s-e , from their elbow.

I think its about time us as parents started to educate our kids on the rights and wrongs of the political scene, and not just the three Rs, maybe that way they will not grow up so ignorant when it come to politics after all they are allowed to vote at 18years.

I think its about time us as parents started to educate our kids on the rights and wrongs of the political scene, and not just the three Rs, maybe that way they will not grow up so ignorant when it come to politics after all they are allowed to vote at 18years..

A majority of younger people will by nature be leftie and either Labour or Green supporters. As they grow older a fair amount of these change their views and move more to the right...or certainly centre/right and also change their politics to conservatism.
I am not trying to generalise as I know many will come on here to refute this, but you don't find many Tory activists at Universities where you have to be 'Right on' (including fist pump)

You're right about turning right wing as you get older Blue. My Dad was a labour supporter up until he retired about ten years ago. Then it was like he went to bed a socialist and woke up the next morning as a hater of everything. He got involved with the BNP (he broke my heart and it's still broken) he rubbished everything that labour did, ie, min wage, tax credits etc and all the while he knew that me, his daughter, was only managing to keep a roof over mine and my boy's heads because of these things.

He then started to go on and on at my brother and two sisters and his grandchildren about how great Cameron was and that he was going to be our savior, and he managed to get them all to vote tory at the last GE. That was when he broke my heart for the second time. Now he thinks that cameron is a moron.

I think his brain as addled in his dotage. I have no proper relationship with him anymore, he thinks that I'm a left wing ta ta because I have a social conscience. I'm proud that I have a SC and that I'm still true to what I've believed in since I was 16 years old. It would not matter what the tories promised me, I would never vote for them ever. I have a strong sense of fairness and I hate everything they believe in. I wish my dad was fair minded, instead of being blinded by anger and bitterness. I miss who he used to be so much...

That was a television series too. "Til death do us part". Alf Garnett.

Adele Carlyon wrote:You're right about turning right wing as you get older Blue. My Dad was a labour supporter up until he retired about ten years ago. Then it was like he went to bed a socialist and woke up the next morning as a hater of everything. He got involved with the BNP (he broke my heart and it's still broken) he rubbished everything that labour did, ie, min wage, tax credits etc and all the while he knew that me, his daughter, was only managing to keep a roof over mine and my boy's heads because of these things.

He then started to go on and on at my brother and two sisters and his grandchildren about how great Cameron was and that he was going to be our savior, and he managed to get them all to vote tory at the last GE. That was when he broke my heart for the second time. Now he thinks that cameron is a moron.

I think his brain as addled in his dotage. I have no proper relationship with him anymore, he thinks that I'm a left wing ta ta because I have a social conscience. I'm proud that I have a SC and that I'm still true to what I've believed in since I was 16 years old. It would not matter what the tories promised me, I would never vote for them ever. I have a strong sense of fairness and I hate everything they believe in. I wish my dad was fair minded, instead of being blinded by anger and bitterness. I miss who he used to be so much...

What a wonderful post. I'm so glad you've stuck by your principles. I'm lucky - my parents have remained as socialist as they always were, so I never feel saddened by hardened views around me. I think, if anything, I'm the one who's gone slightly to the right in some ways.

Adele Carlyon wrote:You're right about turning right wing as you get older Blue. My Dad was a labour supporter up until he retired about ten years ago. Then it was like he went to bed a socialist and woke up the next morning as a hater of everything. He got involved with the BNP (he broke my heart and it's still broken) he rubbished everything that labour did, ie, min wage, tax credits etc and all the while he knew that me, his daughter, was only managing to keep a roof over mine and my boy's heads because of these things.

He then started to go on and on at my brother and two sisters and his grandchildren about how great Cameron was and that he was going to be our savior, and he managed to get them all to vote tory at the last GE. That was when he broke my heart for the second time. Now he thinks that cameron is a moron.

I think his brain as addled in his dotage. I have no proper relationship with him anymore, he thinks that I'm a left wing ta ta because I have a social conscience. I'm proud that I have a SC and that I'm still true to what I've believed in since I was 16 years old. It would not matter what the tories promised me, I would never vote for them ever. I have a strong sense of fairness and I hate everything they believe in. I wish my dad was fair minded, instead of being blinded by anger and bitterness. I miss who he used to be so much...

I hope you have not taken any of the guilt on your shoulders AC, there is a lot of people on these forums that have for one reason or another that have stopped voting Labour, all we can do is hope for the best that they return to being Labour voters when they have had time to think about it.

"You get the Government you deserve" is an old refrain, but in May 2010 the People discovered the effects of abstention. Though not many think they "deserved" the result.

Thanks for the kind words guys...tis much appreciated. I'm still getting used to the change in our relationship I suppose...

Adele Carlyon wrote:Thanks for the kind words guys...tis much appreciated. I'm still getting used to the change in our relationship I suppose...

I only wish there was more that I could do or say Adele to make things a bit easier for you, but Im sure you have the brains and the common sense to work it out for yourself and be able to live knowing its not your fault the way other people think, I have the same problems here in Scotland the SNP got control of our Parliament in May 2011 I was at the count in the SECC in Glasgow that was ONE bloody night I would love to forget but will not get that chance until 2016, now the people that voted the SNP in are regretting it because the cracks have started to show that they do not have a clue all there interested in is the Yes campaign to separate Scotland from the UK when the majority of Scots do not want too.