Are petrol prices too high for our weak economy?

by Stox 16 Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:50 am

UK petrol prices set official record

Do you believe that petrol prices are far too high and are now damaging our weak economy?
Diesel prices are also at a record level
Petrol price reaches record high
Oil price dips from fresh highs
Campaigners call for fuel duty cut
The average price of unleaded petrol has hit a record high, according to government figures.

The Department of Energy and Climate Change (DECC) said the average price of unleaded in the UK was 137.3 pence per litre on Monday 5 March, which was 1.1p higher than the week before.

The previous record of 137.05p was set on 9 May 2011.

Last week, industry analysts Experian Catalist said petrol had hit a record high of 137.44p a litre.

The average diesel price is also at a record high, government figures show, at 144.7p a litre, up 0.8p from the previous record, which was set last week.

Petrol has been pushed up by oil prices, which have risen in recent months due to tensions over Iran's nuclear plans and unrest in the region.

Prices have also been buoyed by the exchange rate.

Although the price of crude oil - measured in US dollars - has yet to rise above the peak it recorded in 2008, the dollar is more than 25% stronger against the pound than it was in 2008, meaning that oil prices are much higher when measured in pounds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business

by oftenwrong Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:55 am

Are petrol prices too high for our weak economy?

ONLY petrol? All energy suppliers are 'avin' a larff at our expense, following privatisation.

Some economists use the price of a Big Mac to illustrate the strength of various World economies. That's because the identical product is priced to suit the local market.

It's not only Hamburgers that cost more in the UK.

by **astradt1** Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:07 pm

Come on we all know that the tories have kept fuel prices down since they were elected....

Dave said so in his broadcast to the nation the other night.....

After all Gideon save us 6pence, a litre, by not putting his planned tax on fuel.....

If he had been really clever he could have saved even more......

If he had planned to put up fuel duty by, say £1 a litre, just think how much better off we would now be if he had then postponed it.....

I wonder if he could use the same 'logic' on those paying the 50p tax rate????

He could say to them that he had planned to raise it to 70p but he will leave it at 50P thereby saving them 20p in the pound.......

by oftenwrong Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:16 pm

A lot of similar "shock" announcements have reached the newspapers over the past couple of years, designed to soften-up the Public prior to a reduction in the actual cut proposed. Phew, what a relief! It's only going to cost an arm, not an-arm-and-a-leg.

by witchfinder Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:35 pm

We need a dose of reality

Ok so lets cut fuel duty by whatever figure, say 20% for example, the exchequer then has less money going into its funds, which means current spending / borrowing plans are thrown into dissaray.

Those that advocate a cut in fuel duty should point to how this could be paid for, and where the loss of revenue into the exchequer would come from.

I used the very same argument and asked the same questions when lorry drivers were blocking roads as a protest during the last governments reign.
Some of us detest the Conservatives, but fair is fair, the rise in oil prices have nothing to do with David Cameron or idiot Osborne.

by oftenwrong Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:39 pm

The Duty imposed on both Fuel and on Alcohol by every government is roughly in step, but people complain most about Fuel Duty.

by astra Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:55 pm

Gideon did not put the 6p on a litre, BUT he DID put VAT up to 20% which more or less gave him his money anyway! catch as catch can!

by **astradt1** Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:56 pm

Two things....If the tax on alcohol was increased how baddly would it caffect people?....Can most cope after having to drink less alcohol?

If the tax on petrol etc was increased could most people cope with using their cars less?

remember that there is a % of VAT charged on petrol so when the base price rises so does the tax take........so there is no incentive for Gideon to see the price base price of petrol to come down......

by trevorw2539 Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:17 pm

He could say to them that he had planned to raise it to 70p but he will leave it at 50P thereby saving them 20p in the pound.......

Are petrol prices too high for our weak economy? 10-66

Are petrol prices too high for our weak economy? 10-66

astradt1
Moderator

Posts: 271
Join date: 2011-10-08
Age: 56
Location: East Midlands

Add to the above.He could then also say that he was saving the country money in admin costs that would be involved in putting it up, by not putting it up. Embarassed

.

by astra Fri Mar 09, 2012 8:22 pm

If the tax on petrol etc was increased could most people cope with using their cars less?

If you've got it a lorry brought it!

The cost of fuel affects every part of life in this country - it ALL comes in 42 Tonne lumps! Gone are the days when you could say it may have come by a 2,000 tonne trainload!

The argument of pricing private cars off of the road is a Green Party Supporter's wet dream and it is nearly happening!

So WHY are Nissan pulling out a new car? More to save the Tory's skin methinks! (Nissan in this country IS after all, a Tory baby)

Petrol in this country should be at the same level as in Belgium or France, if only to help the Tourist Industry, as we are a SERVICE Nation now (Thanx to the Bories)! There is NO reason why it is any higher a price. (AND FOLKS, you can be assured that if we went into the Euro€ the price would NOT be reduced to their level - it would STILL be the most expensive in europe!)

by trevorw2539 Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:19 pm

Quote |Astra

So WHY are Nissan pulling out a new car? More to save the Tory's skin methinks! (Nissan in this country IS after all, a Tory baby)

And a £9.3m grant/sop.

by astra Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:51 pm

(Nissan in this country IS after all, a Tory baby)

A Good, Caring Mummy always looks after her children!

by Stox 16 Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:05 pm

witchfinder wrote:We need a dose of reality

Ok so lets cut fuel duty by whatever figure, say 20% for example, the exchequer then has less money going into its funds, which means current spending / borrowing plans are thrown into dissaray.

Those that advocate a cut in fuel duty should point to how this could be paid for, and where the loss of revenue into the exchequer would come from.

I used the very same argument and asked the same questions when lorry drivers were blocking roads as a protest during the last governments reign.
Some of us detest the Conservatives, but fair is fair, the rise in oil prices have nothing to do with David Cameron or idiot Osborne.

Hi Witchy
There are some very good economic argument's for a lower fuel duty...its a very interesting one this...

by astra Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:19 pm

Those that advocate a cut in fuel duty should point to how this could be paid for, and where the loss of revenue into the exchequer would come from.

Change "Foreign Policy" in this country!!

#1, STOP dolling out shedloadsa cash to peoples who would not give us a cup of water if the circumstances were transposed!
#2 Stop paying £100 million in aid to the likes of India, who then put out £150 million of aid in their OWN programme, and still have money for nyooks!
#3 Stop the "Open Doors Immigration Policy" which is NOT cost effective!
#4 STOP MP's recieving SUBSIDISED FOOD, SUBSIDISED DRINK - to include ALCHOHOL, SUBSIDISED TRANSPORT - either by AIR or RAIL, SUBSIDISED HOUSING which they then sell on for vast unearned profit.
(If an MP say MR D. Skinner for example says he cannot afford the transport or whatever, then means test him to see what he is entitled to.) This of subsidising them JUSt because they are THERE, HAS to STOP
Cameron was in the hustings going to "SET FIRE TO THE QUANGOES!" Get started then snadger! (turnip) Instead he has INCREASED the number of QUANGOES!

Rant over!
and the usual EDIT

Please remember we are no longer the 4th richest country in the world, we are now at number 7

by oftenwrong Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:43 pm

Part of the explanation is the obvious one that Britain is IMPORTING so much of what it needs, without sufficient value of exports to balance the inequality.

No man is an island, entire unto itself.
John Donne

by ROB Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:58 pm

Barack Obama had sense enough to bail out General Motors by maneuvering a buy-out, temporarily transforming GM into “Government Motors.” Most people don’t realize that GM, which has now bought enough of itself back the “the gub’mint” is no longer its boss, owns “the skateboard”, a fuel-cell powered vehicle technology already proven in Washington D.C. field test held in the early 2000s.

If and when we transform our shared infrastructure to hydrogen rather than crude, the price of gas will become irrelevant, about as irrelevant as the price of horseshoes.

Are petrol prices too high for our weak economy? GM_Skateboard_Chassis

Are petrol prices too high for our weak economy? GM_Skateboard_Chassis

http://www.matbase.com/img/web_examplemodule/GM_Skateboard_Chassis.jpg

introduced the Sequel, a drivable concept vehicle based on their revolutionary skateboard chassis. The chassis is formed by lightweight aluminium structure with integrated drive-by-wire controls, fuel cell stack, lithium-ion batteries and electric wheel hub motors.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gm+skateboard&view=detail&id=2EA67701E4E0A79958A3CE5EB4E8329281BA3A5F&first=0

by bobby Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:00 pm

A rise on fuel duty puts added costs on everything that has to be delivered by road, higher delivery costs = higher costs at the till = less cash circulating = lower growth. Not only that but many of the more unscrupulous companies will jump on the bandwagon for no other reason than greed, with someone else to blame. High fuel prices stifle’s growth.

by oftenwrong Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:20 pm

Clearly the cost of fuel affects almost everything we buy that we didn't either grow or make in our own home, but not all travel is by any means essential.

During the icy weather it was noticeable how little traffic was using the roads, but which returned to normal with warmer temperatures and elective use of the motorcar.

by astra Fri Mar 09, 2012 11:30 pm

OW!

Yeah but NO but Yeah but .................

The Prime Minister was chaffing about ALL the folk who took sickies as I remember it. Counting cars in bad weather does not display the need in decent weather. Surely?

Schools were shut, so no need for the school run. AND, AND (ATV take note) All the council subsidised school buses have been if not cut altogether, then seriously slashed! Bus deregulation by David and Gideon's mummy in 1986 all but ended the bus route (and thereby the vehicle) operating on "Social Need". The council cutbacks ordered by the New Labour Government did not help, and Gideon has managed to whittle even THAT LOW number!

by Stox 16 Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:52 am

bobby wrote:A rise on fuel duty puts added costs on everything that has to be delivered by road, higher delivery costs = higher costs at the till = less cash circulating = lower growth. Not only that but many of the more unscrupulous companies will jump on the bandwagon for no other reason than greed, with someone else to blame. High fuel prices stifle’s growth.

Hi Bobby
I have always been quite interested in the true economic arguments on fuel duty...I have seen a few bits of most interesting new data and happen to believe you are quite right. as the increase in fuel duty shows a slowing down of economic activity by both companies and people alike. I am at the view now that a cut in fuel duty of around 5p would act as a good cheap simulator with revenue being made good by an increase in volume in both sales and economic activity. However...the good news for the Labour Party but not the UK PLC.. is that Gideon will never even try it...so it could be something we could look at. so I am with you on this Bob. you are dead right..

by bobby Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:09 pm

Hello Stox. When Gideon made his much publicised 1p cut in fuel duty, it had zero effect on the hard pressed Hauliers or the public. No prices went down any where near me, and being me I had to ask why. The answer I kept getting was that the petrol at these service stations was already discounted. The people that made out of it was the owners of the petrol stations, it made no difference for we the public, and cost the treasury 1p in every litre sold. Not a very clever move for Government by Gideon at all, other than they could stand up and honestly say (there was a phucking rare moment Gideon telling the truth) we reduced fuel duty. For a reduction of fuel duty to really benefit the general public and Hauliers, it has be a sum that can not be swallowed up by previous discounts, but one that will actually put the pump price down. This of course they wont do as it will effect the powerful oil Company’s and personal friends of the Conservative Party.

By the way folks, you can now purchase one of my range of fully restored to concourse Classic Alfa Romeo’s or Jaguars at knock down prices. I was going to put the prices up by 50% due to the I.5 days snow we had, but have since reduced the 50% increase to only 20% saving you a massive 30%. Roll up, Roll up and buy one now.

Bloody hell, I’m clever enough to be a phucking Tory.

by trevorw2539 Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:42 pm

By the way folks, you can now purchase one of my range of fully restored to concourse Classic Alfa Romeo’s or Jaguars at knock down prices. I was going to put the prices up by 50% due to the I.5 days snow we had, but have since reduced the 50% increase to only 20% saving you a massive 30%. Roll up, Roll up and buy one now.

Bloody hell, I’m clever enough to be a phucking Tory

Not really. If you hadn't mentioned 'Tory', I might have bought one. But now I am very doubtful. Laughing

by astra Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:54 pm

saving you a massive 30%. Roll up, Roll up and buy one now.

Arfur Daley could not put it any better!

Careful Bobby, check wot's in them thar tablets!! What a Face

by bobby Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:09 pm

Trev said: Not really. If you hadn't mentioned 'Tory', I might have bought one. But now I am very doubtful. Laughing

Hey Trev hows abaht a bit of Bogof.

by Mel Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:43 pm

Adstrat1

Quote---"After all Gideon save us 6pence, a litre, by not putting his planned tax on fuel.....

If he had been really clever he could have saved even more......

If he had planned to put up fuel duty by, say £1 a litre, just think how much better off we would now be if he had then postponed it.....

I wonder if he could use the same 'logic' on those paying the 50p tax rate????

He could say to them that he had planned to raise it to 70p but he will leave it at 50P thereby saving them 20p in the pound......."

Very clever adstrat, very good indeed. cheers

by trevorw2539 Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:19 pm

Mel wrote:Adstrat1

Quote---"After all Gideon save us 6pence, a litre, by not putting his planned tax on fuel.....

If he had been really clever he could have saved even more......

If he had planned to put up fuel duty by, say £1 a litre, just think how much better off we would now be if he had then postponed it.....

I wonder if he could use the same 'logic' on those paying the 50p tax rate????

He could say to them that he had planned to raise it to 70p but he will leave it at 50P thereby saving them 20p in the pound......."

Very clever adstrat, very good indeed.

OH. I understand. Erm............................Run that by me again will you. Wink

by oftenwrong Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:21 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
.... If and when we transform our shared infrastructure to hydrogen rather than crude, the price of gas will become irrelevant, about as irrelevant as the price of horseshoes.

http://www.matbase.com/img/web_examplemodule/GM_Skateboard_Chassis.jpg

introduced the Sequel, a drivable concept vehicle based on their revolutionary skateboard chassis. The chassis is formed by lightweight aluminium structure with integrated drive-by-wire controls, fuel cell stack, lithium-ion batteries and electric wheel hub motors.

Although Hydrogen is readily available in most parts of the World as H²O the cost and difficulty of separating that molecule of Oxygen are so far insurmountable without vast quantities of Electricity. Which rather defeats the object of economy.

by astra Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:31 pm

separating that molecule of Oxygen are so far insurmountable without vast quantities of Electricity. Which rather defeats the object of economy.

Then add to that, the cost of making the Aluminium Chasis - with vast amounts of Electricity.

Seems OW, this concept is on a hard hard road right at the start!

by ROB Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:40 pm

oftenwrong wrote:
RockOnBrother wrote:
.... If and when we transform our shared infrastructure to hydrogen rather than crude, the price of gas will become irrelevant, about as irrelevant as the price of horseshoes.

http://www.matbase.com/img/web_examplemodule/GM_Skateboard_Chassis.jpg

introduced the Sequel, a drivable concept vehicle based on their revolutionary skateboard chassis. The chassis is formed by lightweight aluminium structure with integrated drive-by-wire controls, fuel cell stack, lithium-ion batteries and electric wheel hub motors.
Although Hydrogen is readily available in most parts of the World as H²O the cost and difficulty of separating that molecule of Oxygen are so far insurmountable without vast quantities of Electricity. Which rather defeats the object of economy.

The cost of installing roll cages, collapsible steering wheels, front quarter crush zones, rear quarter crush zones, and air bags in all passenger vehicles was insurmountable until it became unprofitable to car companies to not equip their cars, pickup trucks, SUVs, vans, and minivans with the full array of safety equipment.

It’s a matter of providing the right incentive. When British Petroleum (BP), Shell, and Exxon-Mobil find that it’s unprofitable not to develop affordable hydrogen-producing technology, affordable hydrogen-producing technology will be developed.

Hit ‘em where it hurts, and they will listen.

by oftenwrong Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:48 pm

I thought the discussion was about finite resources, rather than Commercial pressure.

by astra Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:59 pm

Have successive British Governments been using fuel prices to ration the number of cars on the road, to avoid spending cash on a decent road network?

If fuel DID drop by 50p per litre, that is still £4.00 ($6.27) a gallon for diesel, the roads could not carry the influx!

Think about it, and Train Seats are also, so rationed. Put the prices up to lessen demand to avoid buying more rolling stock!

by Mel Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:28 pm

If we all got on our bikes more and used the car less, the price of fuel would drop like a stone---eh?

by Mel Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:31 pm

"Go by train, its clean, gets you to work and is inexpensive and reliable."

Stated by many before Beeching and PRIVATISATION.

by bobby Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:47 pm

If the tax take from motoring was ploughed back into our transport needs, including road building, we wouldn't have any immediate transport problems. The motorist is subsidising just about everything.

by oftenwrong Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:13 pm

Our childrens' childrens' children are going to marvel at how 21st.C man became enslaved to his own personal transport system. Inhabitants of capital cities have already abandoned car ownership in favour of reliable public transport.

Where's the sense in paying £10,000+ for something which will be idle while its owner is either at work or asleep but nevertheless loses about £40 a day in resale value?

by astra Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:19 pm

Thhat's the nub OW!!

Maggie did the rail privitisation and Bus deregulation to suit the metropolisisises! big cities!

People out in the country and "provinces" can suffer neglect for being so stupid as to live there and in the main produce the countries food!

by trevorw2539 Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:46 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Our childrens' childrens' children are going to marvel at how 21st.C man became enslaved to his own personal transport system. Inhabitants of capital cities have already abandoned car ownership in favour of reliable public transport.

Where's the sense in paying £10,000+ for something which will be idle while its owner is either at work or asleep but nevertheless loses about £40 a day in resale value?

I agree if you live in town. We have a reasonable bus service through our village during the week but evenings and Sundays - zilch. Many villages perhaps 1-2 buses a week.

Of course the governments reason for getting cars off the road is to make it easier for their ministerial limo's. Very Happy

I did consider getting rid of my old Jalopy but the local bus company are not happy with my carrying several bags of manure/compost/gardening materials on the bus. Odd, ain't it.

If cars depreciate at £40 a day, mine should be worth £20 by the end of the month:(

I would love to be able to manage without a car but at my age 6 miles each way on a bike with bags of shopping or compost would be - er - erm - just a little difficult. And my garden, although reasonably sized, just won't take a helicopter. Smile

by ROB Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:15 am

I wrote this:

RockOnBrother wrote:
Barack Obama had sense enough to bail out General Motors by maneuvering a buy-out, temporarily transforming GM into “Government Motors.” Most people don’t realize that GM, which has now bought enough of itself back the “the gub’mint” is no longer its boss, owns “the skateboard”, a fuel-cell powered vehicle technology already proven in Washington D.C. field test held in the early 2000s.

If and when we transform our shared infrastructure to hydrogen rather than crude, the price of gas will become irrelevant, about as irrelevant as the price of horseshoes.

http://www.matbase.com/img/web_examplemodule/GM_Skateboard_Chassis.jpg

introduced the Sequel, a drivable concept vehicle based on their revolutionary skateboard chassis. The chassis is formed by lightweight aluminium structure with integrated drive-by-wire controls, fuel cell stack, lithium-ion batteries and electric wheel hub motors.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=gm+skateboard&view=detail&id=2EA67701E4E0A79958A3CE5EB4E8329281BA3A5F&first=0

You wrote this:

oftenwrong wrote:
Although Hydrogen is readily available in most parts of the World as H²O the cost and difficulty of separating that molecule of Oxygen are so far insurmountable without vast quantities of Electricity. Which rather defeats the object of economy.

I wrote this:

RockOnBrother wrote:
The cost of installing roll cages, collapsible steering wheels, front quarter crush zones, rear quarter crush zones, and air bags in all passenger vehicles was insurmountable until it became unprofitable to car companies to not equip their cars, pickup trucks, SUVs, vans, and minivans with the full array of safety equipment.

It’s a matter of providing the right incentive. When British Petroleum (BP), Shell, and Exxon-Mobil find that it’s unprofitable not to develop affordable hydrogen-producing technology, affordable hydrogen-producing technology will be developed.

Hit ‘em where it hurts, and they will listen.

You wrote this:

oftenwrong wrote:
I thought the discussion was about finite resources, rather than Commercial pressure.

If in fact the discussion is about finite resources, hydrogen is (1) a resource, and (2) finite.

Gasoline, a product of crude oil, is also (1) a resource, and (2) finite. As a finite resource, hydrogen offers several advantages to your crude-oil finite-resource-poor island, including the fact that the UK, in effect, has as much hydrogen as does Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Libya, and other places that have the UK over the barrel because they have what the UK doesn’t have, crude oil. Before anyone mentions it, North Sea reserves can’t cut it as the UK’s sole crude oil source.

Another advantage of hydrogen is that it’s not only a fine resource, it’s a renewable finite resource. Unlike crude oil, which, once pumped, are gone virtually forever (unless one has the patience to wait several million years, perhaps two or here hundred million years, for some new crude), hydrogen’s by-product, water, is two parts hydrogen atoms per molecule. If a committed nation chooses to bite the bullet and learn how to affordably crack water to get hydrogen, then every time someone uses a fuel cell to, for instance, power a skateboard-technology-based car, pickup truck, SUV, van, or minivan, that someone has renewed the energy source.

If you, OW, desire that your nation continue being at the mercy of countries that use crude as a whip to keep you in line, please disregard the field-tested technology that’s right here, right now, available and waiting, able to satisfy the UK's energy needs for the foreseeable future.

I trust there are others in the UK who can lift their faces long enough from the dinner table at which crude oil is being served by countries that don’t care about the UK except as a cash cow to see that hydrogen is but a difficult step away. If so, pass the word.

I fully understand that an infrastructure upheaval is necessary to accomplish this, but it’s inevitable, anyway. There’s only so much crude in the ground, and when it’s gone, it’s gone.

by Stox 16 Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:04 am

bobby wrote:Hello Stox. When Gideon made his much publicised 1p cut in fuel duty, it had zero effect on the hard pressed Hauliers or the public. No prices went down any where near me, and being me I had to ask why. The answer I kept getting was that the petrol at these service stations was already discounted. The people that made out of it was the owners of the petrol stations, it made no difference for we the public, and cost the treasury 1p in every litre sold. Not a very clever move for Government by Gideon at all, other than they could stand up and honestly say (there was a phucking rare moment Gideon telling the truth) we reduced fuel duty. For a reduction of fuel duty to really benefit the general public and Hauliers, it has be a sum that can not be swallowed up by previous discounts, but one that will actually put the pump price down. This of course they wont do as it will effect the powerful oil Company’s and personal friends of the Conservative Party.

By the way folks, you can now purchase one of my range of fully restored to concourse Classic Alfa Romeo’s or Jaguars at knock down prices. I was going to put the prices up by 50% due to the I.5 days snow we had, but have since reduced the 50% increase to only 20% saving you a massive 30%. Roll up, Roll up and buy one now.

Bloody hell, I’m clever enough to be a phucking Tory.

Hello Bobby
No your far to intelligent to be a Tory ha ha ha The only take the Dim...ha ha

Moving on Bobby. yes they did take 1p of fuel then put VAT up on it by 6p a net loss to us of 5p...So much for Tory economics...it could work to reduce duty but you would need to reduce it by more then 1p. I can also see the day coming when petrol will start to be the fuel of the past...what will they do with out fuel duty at 65p in every Liter? now there is a very interesting subject to get our heads around

by astra Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:41 pm

They will tax water by the litre

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