Plan B for the hopeless George Osborne

by **Ivan** Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

This Tory-dominated government claims there is no alternative to austerity. Below, nine leading economists, including a Nobel Prizewinner and one of the Chancellor's own advisers, say that's wrong - and offer a different path:-

Cut VAT back to 17.5%
Christopher Pissarides
Agree financial transaction tax
Jeffrey Sachs
Reduce NI contributions
David Blanchflower
Print money for the public
Sushil Wadhwani
Start a national investment bank
Robert Skidelsky
Lift the cap on immigration
Jonathan Portes
Lend directly to small businesses
George Magnus
Launch a green new deal
Ann Pettifor
Set up a recovery fund
Christopher Allsopp

For the details of each of those suggestions, click on the links on this page:-
http://www.newstatesman.com/economy/2011/10/alternative-coalition

by **Ivan** Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:06 pm

Our hopeless Chancellor has sold Northern Rock to Richard Branson for £747 million, which represents a loss of £400 million on what the last government paid for it in order to prevent a run on British banks. Branson owns a Caribbean island and already does well out of the British taxpayer, and now he gets a bank on the cheap. When the banking industry has settled down a little, he will probably sell up, either to a foreign bank or perhaps through a flotation, and make himself a handsome profit. Once again under the Tories, a very wealthy individual benefits at our expense.

Labour has raised questions both over the substance and the timing of the sale. Ed Balls, the Shadow Chancellor, said: “It is being sold off at a loss and I think there is a question as to whether or not this is the best time, with the markets in turmoil, to get the best deal”. Chi Onwurah, the Labour MP for Newcastle Central (which includes Northern Rock’s headquarters) added: “I am concerned the Tory-led coalition are selling the bank at a £400 million loss and that their refusal to look seriously at a co-operative model means they are out of touch with the British people’s desire for a longer term, sustainable banking model”. Even Tory MP Mark Field said: “I am very concerned about whether we are getting really good value for the taxpayer. There has to be a sense that Richard Branson has got the deal he was craving four years ago for a song today”.

Branson has promised there would be no further compulsory redundancies for three years beyond those already in the pipeline.

For more details:-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/osborne-sells-off-northern-rock-for-400m-loss-6264087.html

by jackthelad Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:05 pm

We, the tax payers was robbed, reading in the Daily Mirror this morning that Branson has a partener in this new Virgin acquisition. Multi millionaire businessman Wilbur Ross, dubbed the the "King of Bankruptcy" by Fortune Magazine, has a history of buying firms on the cheap and selling them off at a profit.
Osborne is not fit to run the finances of an household never mind the finances of a country. Mind you, the conservatives have an history of selling this country's assets of at the cheap, they did it with the utility sevices and railways, and it still costs the taxpayer millions, in fact billions to subsidise the owners of the railways. Which Branson is one of them, this government just can't help themselves from shovelling money into Branson's coffers.

by astra Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:06 pm

Look at it another way Jack!

Osborne and his happy cohorts cannot shout at G Broon esq for selling gold off on the cheap!

The A/holes here in the North East are ONLY interested in the question - "Is the Northern Rock Charitable Trust going to continue?"

If the staff keep their jobs they should be content. tHE CHARITABLE TRUST MAY BE HONOURABLE BUT if I were a customer of the bank, I would much prefer the moneys given to me as intrest, thence, I could decide where I want MY money to go. The head of the charitable trust - a MR Balls, will not be working for free. I seem to remember he was boss of ONE NORTHEAST the qhuango that dished out taxpayers cash to start up new busunesses. It has come to light today that of the 75 companies given grants, 34 have failed with no hope of getting the "loans" returned!

by oftenwrong Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:41 pm

A good deal for the taxpayer?

Possibly. The value of money is falling by 5% a year through inflation. The price of Bank shares generally has been sinking like a stone on the London stock exchange in the last year, and Virgin isn't buying the whole of Northern Rock anyway.

Two aphorisms cover it, "Cut your losses" or "Bird in the hand ...."

by bobby Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:28 pm

Sorry for my change in user name, bt I've had problems signng in.

Re: Do you agree with Osborne that a £400 million loss is “a good deal for the taxpayer”?

Yes of course, assuming Branson pays some of his owed txes.

by **Phil Hornby** Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:44 pm

Cameron Reflects...

Who does Gideon Osborne think he is kidding? - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrzuyPpsC2zY8nGMxkoBM2xuzo9AyxHZmraa65HqrVVMfYeZpY

Who does Gideon Osborne think he is kidding? - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrzuyPpsC2zY8nGMxkoBM2xuzo9AyxHZmraa65HqrVVMfYeZpY

( mirror.co.uk)
" Any thought that what my government has done since May 2010 has not been perfect in every way, has never crossed my mind..."

by jackthelad Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:49 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:Cameron Reflects...

( mirror.co.uk)
" Any thought that what my government has done since May 2010 has not been perfect in every way, has never crossed my mind..."

Come on people, don't you think this guy is missing a couple of pence in his shilling. My grandson looks like that when he as been on the ale all day and night. Laughing

by witchfinder Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:55 pm

OUTRAGEOUS

The only word I can think of that describes this particular piece of news

Public services are been cut, low paid council workers are been made redundant, yet the government more or less hands over £400 million on a plate to one of the wealthiest people in the land.

Some things are just not justifiable

by oftenwrong Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:18 pm

It doesn't bother me what you think. The alternative is Boris.

by tlttf Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:27 am

Lets think, Branson has guaranteed not to make anybody redundant that were being lined up for the chop (thousands), he's aiming to give loans to companies, he's removed a burden from the taxpayers back. Yep it's one of those cases that you would have thought the socialists would love. Hold on, he's not going to lend irresponsibly, that'll never catch on with the labour party.

by oftenwrong Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:48 pm

The proof of the pudding is in the lap of the Gods.

by oftenwrong Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:42 pm

Autumn Statement update:
".... the Chancellor seems unable to learn the lessons and fully reverse course. While acknowledging that "the financial sector has acted as a drag on growth," the Chancellor today promised to ensure Britain "remains the home of global banks and that London is the world's pre-eminent financial centre".

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2011/11/crisis-financial-statement

by **astradt1** Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:19 pm

In todays Autumn Economic Statement, Gideon made a big play on the fact that he had cancelled or at least postponed the 3pence a litre increase in fuel duty with the proud boast that it would save families £144 a year but...........

Take a closer look at the numbers.......

"Families will save £144 a year", said Osborne earlier today. So some pain deferred.

For example, if you drive 12,000 miles a year and your diesel car (new diesel cars outsell petrol ones in the UK) returns an average 45mpg, you will pay £1709.33 in fuel. A 3p rise in the cost of fuel will push your bill higher to £1745.70. But of that £1745 you pay, a whacking £702.51 in duty and £290 in VAT

.....

So we now pay £1709.33 but with the rise we would pay £1745.70....Now I do not have a 2:2 Degree in History like Osbourne, but that makes a 'saving', to use his words, of just £36.37 a year which I believe is well short of the £144 Gideon was talking about............

Now if you drive a Chelsea Tractor, like most of his chums you may well make that larger saving.....

Let's say, in contrast, you drive a 4x4 petrol guzzler that give you 22 miles to the gallon and you drive 12,000 miles a year. With petrol at 134p a litre that's £3,322 a year. When Osborne raises the price by 3p a litre, your fuel bill will soar to just under £3,400.

http://money.aol.co.uk/2011/11/29/uk-motorists-given-slight-breather/?icid=maing-grid7|uk|dl4|sec3_lnk4|86956

But that still only £78 a year.........

Don't you just love the way he does his sums............

Oh and did you know he has increased the amount of Air tax you will have to pay on Flights abroad.........But he didn't announce that one in the House of Commons.........

by astra Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:30 pm

Please check, I think I am correct in saying that ALL the Cabinet Ministers have cars that run on LPG!
I know the Queen and her retinue all run cars on LPG

I am paying Morrisons right now, 69.9p per litre for LPG, I keep the petrol tank at half mark - petrol is used by the engine management system to bring the engine from cold to running temp on start up. This takes 3/4 of a mile so petrol lasts for ages, though I can switch to petrol running if I wish - say in the highlands or over in the Lake District.

I have done 7.000 miles since this time last year and have already gone a looong way to repaying the 1,700 cost of conversion. see petrolprices.com

by oftenwrong Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:42 pm

Every day, advertisers invite me to "save" sundry amounts from 2p. up to "thousands" but the common denominator is that I must first SPEND money in order to achieve those savings.

Incidentally, can you remember 2001? According to an Economist, speaking today after George Osborne's Autumn Statement, that was the last of "the good times" and we shall continue to get poorer in real terms until about 2015. Who'd want to be Chancellor at the next General Election?

by astra Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:53 pm

common denominator is that I must first SPEND

I agree OW.

when looking for another car, there were no NEW cars with LPG, that showed any reliability, and on asking Ford and Vovo Garages, NONE had technicians trained in the LPG workings, hence, purchase a car that we like, and convert it.

Iffin we had waited but 3 months, KIA are now out with an LPG/petrol car, factory fitted and oiks/erks in the garage are trained on the LPG bits and pieces! Sad

. Apparently Volvo are taking this more seriously as well as few drivers in the country can have a car that only travels 100 miles before needing a horse trough!

Gonna check my 2001 diary, see what comes out!

by oftenwrong Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:46 am

I see from my Diary that we watched a lot of Television in 2001. It might well have been a Peak, as the programmes haven't noticeably improved since then. Despite now having ten times as many channels to view.

by keenobserver1 Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:42 pm

Seems gross to me

by oftenwrong Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:12 pm

European children aren't taught the twelve-times table, because they have always had a decimal system.

by Charlatan Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:10 pm

I think the raise should go through. A few pounds for the common man equals a hell of a lot for the petrol seller... and that could go somewhere better, yes?

by Stox 16 Mon Dec 19, 2011 5:34 am

Ivan wrote:This Tory-dominated government claims there is no alternative to austerity. Below, nine leading economists, including a Nobel Prizewinner and one of the Chancellor's own advisers, say that's wrong - and offer a different path:-

Cut VAT back to 17.5%
Christopher Pissarides
Agree financial transaction tax
Jeffrey Sachs
Reduce NI contributions
David Blanchflower
Print money for the public
Sushil Wadhwani
Start a national investment bank
Robert Skidelsky
Lift the cap on immigration
Jonathan Portes
Lend directly to small businesses
George Magnus
Launch a green new deal
Ann Pettifor
Set up a recovery fund
Christopher Allsopp

For the details of each of those suggestions, click on the links on this page:-
http://www.newstatesman.com/economy/2011/10/alternative-coalition

Well its hard not to agree any more with you. you only need to look at their own figures on borrowing alone to see this is a ship that is sailing on where fast. I have come to even believe they have no real economic or fiscal policy at all.

So this was the Government who bragged they would go into the next General Election with the books balanced. while taunting Alistair Darling for saying he would need to make £30 billion cuts. while Tories shouted out asking what Hospitals and schools would he close? what benefits and Jobs will he cut. my, my how times have change. as here we are in just 2011 and only 2 years into the banal government with Gideon blaming everything from Snow to high oil prices even before the eurozone crisis. in fact anything will do to blame as long as its not down too Gideon. as here was Gideon taking office with a small economic recovery: only to now see Gideon facing his 2nd recession within just two years.

So what did we find out? yep we found out there economically bankrupt

BORROWING AT NEW BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS WHILE GROWTH AT A RECORD LOW AND INFLATION AT A HIGH AND UNEMPLOYMENT RUNNING AWAY. but that its not down to Gideon. o know its down to everyone else.

BUDGET 2010 BORROWING TO 2011.
2010/11 borrowing was to be £122 Billion. but ended up at £127 Billion
2011/12 Forecast was £101 billion but will now be £120 billion
2012/13 Forecast was £70 billion but will now be £100 billion
Total Borrowing Gideon said in 2010 would be £299 billion but will now be £347 billion
that's if he can stop dipping into more borrowing in the meantime?
WHO IS BORROWING AND OVERSPENDING? THE TORY PARTY IS

So what have the Tory lead Government spent from 2009 to 2011? £758.7 billion
HM Treasury, OBR Source

So Unemployment must be getting better? as its the Tory party in charge. So how big will Gideon's Unemployed Army get?

Unemployment UP from the 2010 forecast from 7.9% to 8.1% 2011
Unemployment Up from the 2011 forecast to 8.7% in 2012
Unemployment small drop in 2013 to 8.6%
HM Treasury, OBR Scoure

Gideon tells us this will all happen and if it goes wrong it will all be down to the Euro. nothing to do with him at all.

A drop in everyones disposable incomes up from 7% to 8% the worst fall in disposable incomes since the 1970s. still Gideon did not look worried about this at all. but then he himself can afford it. just hope everyone else can?

So What's left of plan A That has become plan A plus a 8 % fall.

(1) To hack to bits the public sector and then sit on his hand a wait for the private sector to take up the slack TORY FAILURE
(2) TO cut fast and Deep in a re-run of there failed policies of 1980s, as this was their only stimulus they could think of at the time. yet this statement has been shown by the OBR to do nothing of the sort. (from there own figures) TORY FAILURE
(3) TO end reckless borrowing and overpending. only to borrow an extra £122 Billion and overspend by £111 Billion TORY FAILURE
(4) TO end QE. only to end up begging the bank of England to do some more QE £75 Billion TORY FAILURE

[/b]
SO PLAN A WAS SUCH A GREAT SUCCESSES, AS BONDS ARE CHEAPER, SO GIDEON CAN BORROW EVEN MORE. O YIPEEEE
Still I am 100% sure that the Tory fan club will narrate all there old jargon, as the plough on with there only meaningless mythological mantra as they re-use all there old soundbites in the vain hope to hide there parties total economic failure.

BETTER THERE ALL HAPPY TODAY

by Stox 16 Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:16 am

Ivan wrote:Our hopeless Chancellor has sold Northern Rock to Richard Branson for £747 million, which represents a loss of £400 million on what the last government paid for it in order to prevent a run on British banks. Branson owns a Caribbean island and already does well out of the British taxpayer, and now he gets a bank on the cheap. When the banking industry has settled down a little, he will probably sell up, either to a foreign bank or perhaps through a flotation, and make himself a handsome profit. Once again under the Tories, a very wealthy individual benefits at our expense.

Labour has raised questions both over the substance and the timing of the sale. Ed Balls, the Shadow Chancellor, said: “It is being sold off at a loss and I think there is a question as to whether or not this is the best time, with the markets in turmoil, to get the best deal”. Chi Onwurah, the Labour MP for Newcastle Central (which includes Northern Rock’s headquarters) added: “I am concerned the Tory-led coalition are selling the bank at a £400 million loss and that their refusal to look seriously at a co-operative model means they are out of touch with the British people’s desire for a longer term, sustainable banking model”. Even Tory MP Mark Field said: “I am very concerned about whether we are getting really good value for the taxpayer. There has to be a sense that Richard Branson has got the deal he was craving four years ago for a song today”.

Branson has promised there would be no further compulsory redundancies for three years beyond those already in the pipeline.

For more details:-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/osborne-sells-off-northern-rock-for-400m-loss-6264087.html

No I think is was a trouble deal for the UK Tax payer.

by oftenwrong Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:11 am

Many home-owners imagine their property to be worth quite a lot of money, but there's only one way to establish the exact amount. Find a buyer.

That's the point at which illusion gives way to reality. An asset is worth only as much as what someone else is prepared to pay for it at the moment it is offered for sale.

People who piled into Gold two years ago now find that the stronger US$ means that they have lost 20% of their investment. Timing is part of the Deal.

by Stox 16 Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:55 am

oftenwrong wrote:Many home-owners imagine their property to be worth quite a lot of money, but there's only one way to establish the exact amount. Find a buyer.

That's the point at which illusion gives way to reality. An asset is worth only as much as what someone else is prepared to pay for it at the moment it is offered for sale.

People who piled into Gold two years ago now find that the stronger US$ means that they have lost 20% of their investment. Timing is part of the Deal.

True and there are many Tories still buying into Gold today. just goes to show how much faith they have in this banal governments economy right now.

by Stox 16 Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:41 am

astradt1 wrote:In todays Autumn Economic Statement, Gideon made a big play on the fact that he had cancelled or at least postponed the 3pence a litre increase in fuel duty with the proud boast that it would save families £144 a year but...........

Take a closer look at the numbers.......

"Families will save £144 a year", said Osborne earlier today. So some pain deferred.

For example, if you drive 12,000 miles a year and your diesel car (new diesel cars outsell petrol ones in the UK) returns an average 45mpg, you will pay £1709.33 in fuel. A 3p rise in the cost of fuel will push your bill higher to £1745.70. But of that £1745 you pay, a whacking £702.51 in duty and £290 in VAT
.....

So we now pay £1709.33 but with the rise we would pay £1745.70....Now I do not have a 2:2 Degree in History like Osbourne, but that makes a 'saving', to use his words, of just £36.37 a year which I believe is well short of the £144 Gideon was talking about............

Now if you drive a Chelsea Tractor, like most of his chums you may well make that larger saving.....

Let's say, in contrast, you drive a 4x4 petrol guzzler that give you 22 miles to the gallon and you drive 12,000 miles a year. With petrol at 134p a litre that's £3,322 a year. When Osborne raises the price by 3p a litre, your fuel bill will soar to just under £3,400.

http://money.aol.co.uk/2011/11/29/uk-motorists-given-slight-breather/?icid=maing-grid7|uk|dl4|sec3_lnk4|86956

But that still only £78 a year.........

Don't you just love the way he does his sums............

Oh and did you know he has increased the amount of Air tax you will have to pay on Flights abroad.........But he didn't announce that one in the House of Commons.........

had he not put up V.A.T he would of had a lot more economic growth than he does today. but that is Gideon for you. No economic brains at all

by bobby Sun Jan 22, 2012 3:59 pm

In fact Stox, if he grew a second Brain, it would be phucking lonely.

by Stox 16 Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:42 am

bobby wrote:In fact Stox, if he grew a second Brain, it would be phucking lonely.

Bobby
that did having me laughing, then thought about it.....now cannot sleep ha ha ha

by **Ivan** Fri Mar 30, 2012 12:21 am

by witchfinder Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:18 am

I suppose you could feel a tiny bit sorry for Conservatives, the great economic plan is falling apart, we are going backwards and the government is running out of excuses.

In May 2010 at the time of the general election our economy was accelerating back towards normality, how George Osborne must wish he had growth of 1.1% instead of where he has taken us, to the edge of recession again.

But what was it exactly that took us out of recession and saw growth return so robustly in 2010. ?

What Alistair Darling did can be summed up in a well known phrase "speculate to accumulate" - remember the car scrappage scheme, the temporary cut in VAT, the £20 billion economic stimulus, boiler scrappage scheme and the continuation of such projects as the ForgeMasters loan and capital class aircraft carrier building.

The economic argument works like this - stimulus to the economy boosts growth, a growing economy automaticly reduces both debt and defecit as a percentage of GDP.

If the defecit represents 10% of total GDP and economic growth is 1%, then in one year the defecit as a percentage of GDP falls, but if growth falls or slows it becomes much harder to reduce the defecit.

It is true that we cannot sustain a permanent defecit, it does have to be cured, but there is no reason or rule which says that we cannot gradualy reduce the defecit as growth returns - ask Barack Obama who presides over an economy with 3% growth and falling unemployment.

No matter which way you look at it, this coalition government have got it all very badly wrong, and its ordinary people who are paying the price.

by oftenwrong Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:03 am

Some of George Osborne's "savings" have simply transferred government spending from public-sector employees to outside companies:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/supportservices/7716778/Coalition-Government-cuts-to-benefit-outsourcing-firms.html

by Stox 16 Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:29 am

Like all illness arthritis this budget attacks the walls of the arteries and leaves a rather nasty inflammation that leave the person rather inflamed and rather rheumatic. This was just such a budget. As the tax burden for the super-rich was cut while middle class and working class families pick up the real cost of two years wasted economic Tory lead policy.

As once more the Tory party set out to re-live their failed 1980s Lawson’s trickle-down economic strategy that lead to financial deregulation that exacerbated the UK’s weaknesses and set us on a long term course for the meltdown in 2007. While this time borrowing is out of all control with a further £91 billion added to there ever growing national debt of borrowing without GDP growth. With VAT rise of 20% by in January 2011 all adding to daily hardship of working families. We sew total UK receipts of £592 billion with out going expendititure at £683 billion for 2012/13. With growth at the rheumatic state of 0.8% forecast up from 0.7% pencilled in last November, in what can only be seen as a quite dismal performance by the banal government.

What did the Chancellor say in August last year about America's more balanced deficit plan:
"Those who spent the whole of the past year telling us to follow the American example need to answer this simple question: why has the US economy grown more slowly than the UK economy?"
Well here is the answer The US economy grew at 1.7% last year, twice the rate of ours.

After clawring over the Treassury’s red book it soon becomes very clear that every penny Gideon gives away he clawers it back from someone else. All in all this was a very modest giveaway of just £1.9 billion this year that should Gideon hopes all will be smoothed away by 2016. So after all of this, we can see its peanuts when set against the governments £1 trillion debt pile that this government is adding too fast as it can. We also was told that Manufacturers would double exports to £1tn by the end of the decade. Well this would need to see a doubling of annual exports to 1tn by 2020. And to do that would require a sustainable growth strategy. Something this government has so far failed to bring about at any time in the life of this government so far.

As for the cut in the 50p tax rate to 45p and all the tax loopholes and avoidance we have already have that is morally repugnant. This so-call tax break will do little or nothing to help the economy but will help many people see where this banal governments proprieties lay and its not with them. Even as coalition ministers insist that the rich are being made to pay in other ways, a tax break for people earning over £150,000 a year is emblematic. It is hugely unpopular and seems tailor-made to reinforce public suspicion that Tories cannot resist cosseting tycoons and their City banker backers. However, many in the country, this budget will indicate that the Conservatives within the coalition are reverting to type, eager to help out their friends in the City. Meanwhile, middle-aged workers now face the prospect of a much poorer retirement. They face a triple whammy: the over-65 tax allowance will be scrapped by the time they can claim it. while compulsory pension saving by their employers is deferred and their state pension age could be increased without limit. This is quite some tax raid, compounded by another under-discussed phenomenon: the chancellor is also dragging an extra 300,000 basic-rate taxpayers up into the 40% bracket. So that will go down very well with Tory middle class voters. Thank Gideon for your own goal

So was this a budget for recovery, no this was little more than a budget for second hand Porsche dealers with more benefits for the super-rich. With a city banker on £1 million a year saving £42,500 income tax . But this just goes to show how bankrupt .

George Osborne was fond of saying – wrongly – that the Labour government had failed to fix the roof while the sun was shining. What he is now doing is the equivalent of ripping out the foundations of the house just as the hurricane is about to hit.

At the same time, Whitehall is not persuaded that there is much of a long-term strategy. "He is a shrewd tactician," says one Treasury veteran, who has observed up close how the Chancellor works. "He doesn't think more than a few steps ahead. He doesn't feel he needs to because he's so confident that when the time comes he'll think of something." Osborne is a chancer.
Despite the risks, there is instant political gratification to be had from cutting the top rate of tax. It reinforces the Chancellor's credentials as a torch-bearer for authentic Tourism when the Prime Minister is seen as ideologically contaminated by coalition. As one government adviser puts it: "At a stroke, you buy yourself a lot of room with the right of the party, with donors and with the press. This sums up this whole budget to a T. its not a budget for economic growth at all nor will its cut the national debt. it’s a chancer budget who has very little left in his economic policy.

So are you Happy with an Rheumatic economic budget for the super-rich ?while 99% of the rest of us. Fight to keep our heads above water? If you a Tory the answer will be yes. Out of there blind faith to there 1980s economic dogma that’s already failed last time around

by Papaumau Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:22 pm

I find it crass and totally unbelievable that George, ( Gideon ) Osborne has just wakened up to the fact that many of the country's millionaires and billionaires pay little or no tax because of tax avoidance schemes.

Here is a report I found online this morning that tells the whole story:

George Osborne 'shocked' at level of tax avoidance among wealthy

The Chancellor says he has found that some of Britain's richest people have regularly paid 'virtually no income tax, he also said that he had seen tax returns submitted by multimillionaires using aggressive avoidance schemes.

He said: An HMRC study convinced him of the need to "take action" to ensure high earners pay more income tax. HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) found that the income tax rate among some of the highest earners was, on average, only 10%. They, ( HRMC ) also found that hundreds of millions of pounds of income tax is avoided by using legal loopholes. ( In my estimation, which could easily be closed if the desire in government was there to do it ).

The main methods included writing off business losses, offsetting the cost of business mortgages, and borrowing on buy-to-let properties. Others took advantage of tax relief on donations to charity. But charities have warned that limiting tax relief on donations will reduce philanthropic giving. But Osborne said: "I was very clear in the budget that we are specifically looking at making sure we are still encouraging philanthropy and charitable giving. But that is a specific issue we can deal with."

Osborne has been criticised by Labour for cutting the top rate of income tax from 50p to 45p, in a move that will cut the tax bills of people earning more than £150,000 a year. But he said the 50p rate introduced by the last Labour government was "spin over substance". "You produce a press release which says Britain has a 50p tax rate while you preside over a tax system where some people are paying zero per cent tax," he said.

"I've come up with a budget that has reduced the 50p rate to 45p, so we don't have the highest income tax rate in the world. But I've also asked people who are currently paying zero to pay income tax."

Who does he think he is kidding ?

Does he think that we think that he has just discovered all about these kinds of tax fiddles ?

Does he also think that we don't know that he is - by this statement - just trying to soften the blows he has hit the poorest people in this society with in his budget ?

Such tax loopholes have been used by these people for many years if not hundreds of years and successive governments have done little or nothing about it.

Do we think that Osborne - a millionaire himself - is at last going to close these loopholes ?

I certainly don't, do you ?

Regards.....

Papaumau.

by bobby Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:42 pm

"I've come up with a budget that has reduced the 50p rate to 45p, so we don't have the highest income tax rate in the world. But I've also asked people who are currently paying zero to pay income tax."

I suppose that if the silly git says pretty please, all his rich thieving mates and Tory front benchers (alledgedly including Gideon himself) will pay their dues?

by Mel Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:04 pm

Absolutely correct papa. As you so rightly say he has known about these companies and people who have avoided paying theit taxes.
HMRC would have undoutably known about these loopholes and no doubt have advised governments of theit existance.

Here we have this pathetic Gideon boy in short trousers trying to dupe the public into thinking he is trying to put us "all in it together" when in actual fact he has put us all except the rich in the shyte.

As you say, who does the twit think he is kidding. Naturally nothing will be done, just the usual rhetoric and the usual glossing over the problem in the hope that we will have forgotten his promises which are utterly false.

by trevorw2539 Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:38 pm

Settle down and let me tell you a story.

Many centuries ago there was a wicked army called the Midianite Army who came to besiege the the Israelites.

A young commander named Gideon stepped forward and took 100 men. In the middle of the night they very quietly came near to the Midianite Army who were unaware of their presence.

Gideon and his men suddenly smashed pitchers that they had taken with them, and shouted aloud.

The Midianites were so startled they jumped up and started to fight among themselves before running away.

Now, as I see it. Our Gideon has already caused consternation among his own side. Maybe we will see some more infighting. Maybe, just maybe, some will take flight (Lib/Dems) and the battle will be won. All thanks to our Gideon. Smile

And as all fairy stories end. We all lived happily ever after.

by oftenwrong Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:34 pm

Why shouldn't Gideon be described as "shocked" at anything he discovers?

For the past two years he's been pretending to know what he was doing.

by trevorw2539 Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:49 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Why shouldn't Gideon be described as "shocked" at anything he discovers?

For the past two years he's been pretending to know what he was doing.

He knows what he's doing. It's just that no-one else does. Rolling Eyes

by Mel Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:40 pm

I do not envy Camer-con in some respects.

I mean to say, who would want a novice incapable so called Chancellor on the one side and a self serving unpredictable git of a Deputy PM on the other with that FANNY Alexander in between? Throw in the mix that little beauty Theressa along with difficult Ken and the politically suicidal Landsley and he has the makings of a mixture sure to go sour very soon.

by Stox 16 Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:11 am

Papaumau wrote:

I find it crass and totally unbelievable that George, ( Gideon ) Osborne has just wakened up to the fact that many of the country's millionaires and billionaires pay little or no tax because of tax avoidance schemes.

Here is a report I found online this morning that tells the whole story:

George Osborne 'shocked' at level of tax avoidance among wealthy

The Chancellor says he has found that some of Britain's richest people have regularly paid 'virtually no income tax, he also said that he had seen tax returns submitted by multimillionaires using aggressive avoidance schemes.

He said: An HMRC study convinced him of the need to "take action" to ensure high earners pay more income tax. HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) found that the income tax rate among some of the highest earners was, on average, only 10%. They, ( HRMC ) also found that hundreds of millions of pounds of income tax is avoided by using legal loopholes. ( In my estimation, which could easily be closed if the desire in government was there to do it ).

The main methods included writing off business losses, offsetting the cost of business mortgages, and borrowing on buy-to-let properties. Others took advantage of tax relief on donations to charity. But charities have warned that limiting tax relief on donations will reduce philanthropic giving. But Osborne said: "I was very clear in the budget that we are specifically looking at making sure we are still encouraging philanthropy and charitable giving. But that is a specific issue we can deal with."

Osborne has been criticised by Labour for cutting the top rate of income tax from 50p to 45p, in a move that will cut the tax bills of people earning more than £150,000 a year. But he said the 50p rate introduced by the last Labour government was "spin over substance". "You produce a press release which says Britain has a 50p tax rate while you preside over a tax system where some people are paying zero per cent tax," he said.

"I've come up with a budget that has reduced the 50p rate to 45p, so we don't have the highest income tax rate in the world. But I've also asked people who are currently paying zero to pay income tax."

Who does he think he is kidding ?

Does he think that we think that he has just discovered all about these kinds of tax fiddles ?

Does he also think that we don't know that he is - by this statement - just trying to soften the blows he has hit the poorest people in this society with in his budget ?

Such tax loopholes have been used by these people for many years if not hundreds of years and successive governments have done little or nothing about it.

Do we think that Osborne - a millionaire himself - is at last going to close these loopholes ?

I certainly don't, do you ?

Regards.....

Papaumau.

I cannot agree more with you papa and I would add the following

The Missing Billions – found that the 700 largest corporations in the UK had an effective tax rate 7.5 percentage points below the corporation tax rate set by Parliament (30 per cent at the time).

With corporation tax now at 24 per cent, the effective rate for many big companies is well below 20 per cent – the rate that small businesses pay on their profits, basic rate income tax and VAT.

Media investigations about the tax arrangements of companies like Amazon, Google and Barclays show that some companies are paying virtually no corporation tax despite enjoying huge profits.

While perfectly legal, tax avoidance by multi-national corporations and super-rich individuals is costing the government at least £25bn a year (HMCR) – or £1,500 for every family in the UK – and undermining the UK tax system at a time when ordinary families are being squeezed by tax rises and falling wages.

or lets put it this way. that is a cool £125 Billion over the life time of just this Government, with your own Government borrowing now standing at £127 billion with it expected to rise to £169 Billion by the end of 2012.

Total UK Receipts £592 billion and Total UK expenditure £638 billion. Deficit of £46 billion -(Budget 2012) in his own words

OBR figures on TORY PARTY GOVERNMENT borrowing

Public Sector Net Borrowing excluding financial interventions £15.2 billion (February 2012)
this is £6.3 billion higher than in February 2011 (Monthly), UK. Last updated: 21 March 2012

Public Sector Net Debt excluding financial interventions £995.0 billion (February 2012)
this compares to £877.3 billion at the end of February 2011 (Monthly), UK. Last updated: 21 March 2012
Top

by **Phil Hornby** Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:08 am

..... frown, and wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command...

Who does Gideon Osborne think he is kidding? - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQwtfY-3eMxOs1xWKIL9fN8JUHksEwWhAN-ssX6SMhbYiB3BchC

Who does Gideon Osborne think he is kidding? - Page 2 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQwtfY-3eMxOs1xWKIL9fN8JUHksEwWhAN-ssX6SMhbYiB3BchC

(georgeosbornelookingevil.tumblr.com)

“My name is Ossybornias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!”

( with apologies to Percy Bysshe Shelley)

by Papaumau Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:50 am

I have always based my attacks on the super-rich and privileged in this country on the fact that it has been published that when we look at all of the wealth that is in this country the taxation based on that wealth is very seldom anywhere near the 45 percent that our Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne, has recently lowered and keeps harping on about.

It is known that 70 percent of the wealth of this country is in the hands of thirty percent of the population and that the other thirty percent of that wealth - that is floating around the country in the hands of the seventy percent of the population - is taxed to the hilt using P.A.Y.E. methods that are very difficult if not impossible to avoid.

It appears that government after government and HM Revenue and Customs after HM Revenue and Customs have spent all of their working days trying to protect the super-rich from paying their whack while they screw the rest of us right into the ground with tax demands.

This rich/poor divide is now becoming so wide and the incidences of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer is now becoming so clear and constant that the "them and us" feeling has to be as strong as it ever has been in this country.

It is this phenomenon that has triggered a campaign by myself and a large number of like-minded people whereby we can try to effectively steer the political direction that governments of the future might take.

If any of you are interested in trying to right this wrong and are willing to try to persuade our political servants in Britain to bring back some sense and some true fairness into this society then why don't you have a look at our "Bring Back Labour" campaign that is highlighted in our open letter to Ed Miliband HERE

Regards...

Papa......

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