Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

by tlttf Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:16 am

First topic message reminder :

Fantastic article from the "New Statesman", sums up politics as is?

Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

All parties love the easy, polarising rhetoric of “us” against “them” – but how distinct are their ideas?

By Rafael Behr, Published 31 January 2013

There is a reliable way to tell if David Cameron is rattled. When the Prime Minister is on shaky ground, he hurls the charge of being “left-wing” at Ed Miliband as if it were the foulest thing he could say within the bounds of parliamentary protocol. The “Red Ed” label has never been a plausible line of attack but it is a comforting fiction for senior Conservatives who deride the Labour leader’s agenda as a slide into unelectable socialism.

Take time out from tribalism and read the article!

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/politics/2013/01/taking-sides-dividing-lines-british-politics

by marcolucco Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:35 am

"Nos podemos volver al por favor tema?"
I've appealed a few times in English for a return to topic but maybe oftenwrong has still more avuncular advice for poor marco.

by oftenwrong Tue Dec 15, 2015 12:30 pm

How dare anyone describe my rapier wit as "avancular"? Have a care, Sir, lest I have my seconds call you out! He that filches from me my good name robs me of that which not enriches him, but makes me poor indeed etc., etc., yawn.

A false trail is led when a post calls for a "return to the topic" whilst proceeding in a contrary direction, so let us by all means discuss the validity of the manufactured "differences" between British political Parties - which all dance a stately gavotte around the Centre. They feel obliged to do that because the Voter traditionally rejects extremism whether from the Right or the Left, thus supporting my theory that Fascists and Communists have more in common than either would like to admit. Each is devoted to a departure from the status quo (there's no escaping Latin, it seems).

The falsity of "difference" is demonstrated on television at each State Opening of Parliament, during which "opposing" members are witnessed having friendly chats as they process from the House of Commons to another place. There is also unity whenever the question of Parliamentary wages-and-pensions arises.

Finally, there has never been a shortage of people condemning the hypocrisy with such opinions as "they're all the same". As indeed some say about washing powders.

by **moonbeam** Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:00 am

marcolucco,

Your post has been removed. If you have nothing more to bring to the table than insults to others, then perhaps it is time for you to find another forum to post on. Frankly, your superiority complex has grown old.

~moonbeam.

by marcolucco Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:14 am

Good post, oftenwrong. Your points are well made. Our banter was misconstrued, perhaps. Best regards.

by marcolucco Wed Dec 16, 2015 8:33 am

Phil wrote:But possibly a piranha if a toe were to be dipped in

I liked your cheeky sense of humour Phil. If we had only reached those pluperfect subjunctives...oops, there one goes.
Best regards, enjoy the season's festivities, and be good to OW.

by Redflag Wed Dec 16, 2015 9:02 am

oftenwrong wrote:The falsity of "difference" is demonstrated on television at each State Opening of Parliament, during which "opposing" members are witnessed having friendly chats as they process from the House of Commons to another place. There is also unity whenever the question of Parliamentary wages-and-pensions arises.

Finally, there has never been a shortage of people condemning the hypocrisy with such opinions as "they're all the same". As indeed some say about washing powders.

The difference between the parties has just happened recently OW, in fact since Jc became the leader of the tory party un till then there had been NO DIFFERENCE brcause it was the labour party with tory policies that is why wed lost so many labour members & voters we also got back thE FBU after 20 years.

by oftenwrong Wed Dec 16, 2015 10:57 am

marcolucco wrote:Good post, oftenwrong. Your points are well made. Our banter was misconstrued, perhaps. Best regards.

Gloria was sick on a train last Monday.

by **Phil Hornby** Wed Dec 16, 2015 3:23 pm

Ah, those happy fourth-form Latin afternoons.

How I don't miss them... Smile

by **moonbeam** Thu Dec 17, 2015 1:19 am

marcolucco wrote:
Phil wrote:But possibly a piranha if a toe were to be dipped in

I liked your cheeky sense of humour Phil. If we had only reached those pluperfect subjunctives...oops, there one goes.
Best regards, enjoy the season's festivities, and be good to OW.

marcolucco,

My post was more of a suggestion that you debate the subject, rather than calling out others for what you deem to be their failings or inferiorities. Judging by your use of past tense in your response to Phil, it would seem that you have decided you can't *not* insult others, which is a pity. And, in that case, I suppose you will have made the best choice.

I'd much rather you continue to participate, minus the insults, however.

by Redflag Fri Dec 18, 2015 11:31 am

boatlady wrote:I talk from experience of universities, boatlady.

hadn't realised you were an academic - where did you do your degree(s)?

At the Uversity of Capatalism & future Tory voters boatlady. Hope this answers your question boatlady.

by boatlady Fri Dec 18, 2015 4:28 pm

I'd have thought you were more of a University of life person, Red - as am I these days - although it's sometimes handy to have the other kind of credentials when dealing with intellectual snobs Cool

by bobby Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:42 pm

" it's sometimes handy to have the other kind of credentials when dealing with intellectual snobs"

Sometimes a good kick in the teeth has a calming influence.

by **Phil Hornby** Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:02 pm

Understated , as always, bobby... Shocked

by boatlady Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:03 pm

I consider myself a woman of peace and would never resort to such - not saying I'm never tempted, mind

by **Phil Hornby** Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:08 pm

It reminds me of a notice reportedly seen in a shop : " Please do not ask for credit as a punch in the nose often offends"...

by bobby Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:50 pm

Must have been my shop Phil.

by **Ivan** Mon Feb 01, 2016 12:31 pm

Electoral reform: Party leaders call for pact to achieve alternative voting system after next election

The SNP, Greens and Welsh Nationalists have united to call for an electoral pact with Labour and the Liberal Democrats to agree sweeping changes to the voting system for Westminster elections.

Jeremy Corbyn has admitted that he is “open” to an electoral pact with other parties to force through electoral reform. Asked if he would be willing to talk to the Liberal Democrats and other parties about agreeing changes to the voting system, the Labour leader said “obviously”. He said he was willing to consider a form of proportional representation as long as it maintained the link between an MP and their constituency.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/electoral-reform-party-leaders-call-for-pact-to-achieve-alternative-voting-system-after-next-a6843716.html

by oftenwrong Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:26 pm

Wow! That was quick! It only took them 8 months to come up with the suggestions already made on Cutting Edge, and even so talking about reform five+ years into the future.

by Redflag Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:51 am

boatlady wrote:I consider myself a woman of peace and would never resort to such - not saying I'm never tempted, mind

You are a better person than me boatlady, and I would not just hand out a punch in the mouth either, my thoughts a quite a bit darker like giving the Tories there head in there hands to play with LITTERALLY

by oftenwrong Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:07 pm

An American "take" on the topic is interesting:

http://agreenroad.blogspot.com.br/2012/11/10-reasons-why-people-dont-vote-and-ten.html?_escaped_fragment_

by oftenwrong Thu Jun 16, 2016 7:35 pm

The shocking and disgraceful event in a small Yorkshire community today passes comprehension for ordinary decent normal people. But the passion engendered by the current debate about Britain's continuing membership of the EU has inevitably polarised opinion, and increasingly personal insults have been traded between the opposing sides.

If there is anything positive to emerge from the temporary "cease-fire", it will be a reminder that democracy for all its faults is better than bloody rebellion. Petty concerns about economics and immigration emphasise that improved Quality of Life depends primarily upon having a life to improve.

by trevorw2539 Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:06 pm

oftenwrong wrote:How dare anyone describe my rapier wit as "avancular"? Have a care, Sir, lest I have my seconds call you out! He that filches from me my good name robs me of that which not enriches him, but makes me poor indeed etc., etc., yawn.

A false trail is led when a post calls for a "return to the topic" whilst proceeding in a contrary direction, so let us by all means discuss the validity of the manufactured "differences" between British political Parties - which all dance a stately gavotte around the Centre. They feel obliged to do that because the Voter traditionally rejects extremism whether from the Right or the Left, thus supporting my theory that Fascists and Communists have more in common than either would like to admit. Each is devoted to a departure from the status quo (there's no escaping Latin, it seems).

The falsity of "difference" is demonstrated on television at each State Opening of Parliament, during which "opposing" members are witnessed having friendly chats as they process from the House of Commons to another place. There is also unity whenever the question of Parliamentary wages-and-pensions arises.

Finally, there has never been a shortage of people condemning the hypocrisy with such opinions as "they're all the same". As indeed some say about washing powders.

Oh, come on. You know as well as I do the chat is all friendly. They're simply talking about 'S' who's is having an affair with 'T's' wife while he is supposed to be in the Chamber. And 'did you know I claimed for...no I'd better not tell you, you might try it, and that wouldn't be honest, would it'.

As to MP's wages, we all know they're set by the Independent..er..Parliamentary Standards Authority. What could be more impartial than an Independent committee. I ask you. doh

by boatlady Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:09 pm

OW - good point

Trevor - I think you may be responding to an older post - not sure I get your drift at this point

by trevorw2539 Fri Jun 17, 2016 2:36 pm

boatlady wrote:OW - good point

Trevor - I think you may be responding to an older post - not sure I get your drift at this point

You're probably right. I've not been on for some time. It was just a lighthearted comment on the 'mysteries' of Parliamentary conduct. I need to get back to speed.

I've been spending time on another forum trying to get people to use the Internet to get varied views and real facts available on the internet instead of listening to the 'facts' being spouted by both sides. As usual, too many people are going on gut feeling instead of really thinking things through. It seems to be too much trouble to consider their future.
Still, I shouldn't really say anything. I shall not be voting. The future belongs to my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren. Though my eldest greatgrandchild (6 years) hasn't quite got the idea of the voting system yet. Wink

by oftenwrong Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:58 am

Senior Labour rebels are so convinced that Jeremy Corbyn will win the leadership contest that they are planning to elect their own leader and launch a legal challenge for the party's name.

Leading moderates have told The Telegraph they are looking at plans to set up their own “alternative Labour” in a “semi-split” of the party if Mr Corbyn remains in post.

The move would see them create their own shadow cabinet and even elect a leader within Parliament to rival Mr Corbyn’s front bench and take on the Tories.

They are considering going through the courts to get the right to use Labour’s name and assets including property owned by the party across the country

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/labour-rebels-plan-to-elect-own-leader-and-create-%e2%80%98alternative%e2%80%99-group-if-jeremy-corbyn-is-re-elected/ar-BBv2pWn?li=BBoPWjQ&ocid=iehp

This story is an example of the way an experienced reporter can create something out of nothing. Authoritative sounding assertions, none of which can be checked or verified.

Note the use of "One prominent Corbyn critic";
"One senior moderate told the Telegraph";
"Another moderate said..";
"said a Labour MP";
“He [The Commons Speaker] is deeply concerned the current situation is damaging the mother of all parliaments,” one moderate speculated."
Speculate is a weasel word. The only actual person named is described as a "Corbyn ally" so on the other side of the argument.

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Taking sides: the dividing lines of British politics

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atque in perpetuum, frater, ave atque vale.

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The power of The Press

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