Is it time that we took a closer look at UKIP?

First topic message reminder :

The UKIP vote in Eastleigh rose from 3.6% in 2010 to 27.8% in the by-election on Thursday. It may have been because the party is mopping up the mid-term protest votes which traditionally went to the Liberal Democrats before they climbed into bed with the devil in May 2010. It may be because many people – wrongly - feel that the three main parties in Westminster are “all the same”, a feeling which the Tories have helped to create by transferring so much real power from democratic accountability to unelected and unaccountable corporations as they privatise everything on which they can lay their grubby hands. What I don’t believe is that this bubble of support for UKIP is because of the party’s reactionary, right-wing policies, which aim to take us back to the 1950s.

The one policy which everyone associates with UKIP is withdrawal from the EU. UKIP has claimed that by leaving the EU, the UK would save over £45 million a day plus £60 billion a year, conveniently ignoring any EU rebates and regional grants. I’m not sure where it gets those figures from, since the Treasury says that the UK paid £8.9 billion into EU budget in 2010/11 (out of £706 billion of public spending). The European Commission puts the UK's net contribution at £5.85 billion.

The EU is the UK's main trading partner, accounting for 52% of our total trade in goods and services; if Britain went for a clean break from the EU, its exports would be subject to EU export tariffs. Millions of jobs could be lost as global manufacturers move to low-cost countries within the EU, and Britain's foreign-owned car industry might well shift into the EU. However, withdrawal from the EU was the issue which UKIP exploited and which put it on the political map. With his half-baked promise of a referendum at some point in the future, the idiotic Cameron has increased UKIP’s credibility by showing that he’s afraid of it.

Cameron also said that UKIP is “full of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists", and perhaps on that last point he could now be right. The Eastleigh by-election showed that UKIP is appealing to racists, causing one person on Twitter to refer to it as “the BNP for the Notting Hill set”. UKIP may be more subtle than the BNP, but it wants to freeze immigration, pandering to the Alf Garnetts who see all foreigners as problems, and has even thrown in the contentious claim that “multiculturalism has split our society”.

In December 2011, the UK had 88,179 people in prison, more per head of the population than any other country in Europe, yet UKIP wants to double the number of prison places. UKIP says that the £2 billion cost of building new prisons is negligible compared to the cost of crime, but it hasn’t factored in the cost of keeping prisoners in jail, which amounts to at least £40,000 a year for each of them. Yet UKIP would refuse to accept European Arrest Warrants, which could well mean delays for the UK in extraditing suspects from other European countries.

The NHS would be no safer with UKIP than it’s been with the Tories, since the party believes that “other models are worth considering to see whether lessons can be learned from abroad”. On education, UKIP wants to bring back grammar schools, so that we can once again tell about 80% of eleven-year-olds that they’re failures, while at the same time giving parents education vouchers, which would be a way of subsidising private school fees.

The cornerstone of UKIP’s tax policies is to roll the employee national insurance and basic rate income tax into a flat rate of income tax of 31%. There would be no higher rate tax, since UKIP perpetuates the Tory lie that the 50% income tax rate cost the economy money; it hasn’t, it has brought in £2.7 billion a year. UKIP’s policy would be a massive tax cut for the rich, far bigger than the one that’s being introduced by the Tories in April. Even greater inequality would be created by abolishing national insurance for employers.

UKIP policies, like so many Tory ones, amount to an attack on our rights. UKIP would put an end to most legislation regarding matters such as weekly working hours, holidays, overtime, redundancy and sick pay, while leaving it up to each employer to decide whether to offer parental leave. It says it would also scrap most ‘equality and discrimination’ legislation.

If you need any more reasons not to vote for UKIP, it denies climate change and would make increased defence spending “a clear priority, even in these difficult times”. It opposes equal marriage, would hold a referendum in each county on ending the hunting ban and would allow smoking in allocated rooms in public houses, clubs and hotels. It’s no wonder that UKIP has been likened to “the political wing of a Home Counties golf club”.

You may not like the EU, and you may think that after 38 years it’s time to hold another referendum on our membership. However, before you vote for a party that makes that its flagship policy, look a little more closely at what else you would be voting for at the same time.

Sources used:-

http://www.ukip.org/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20448450

The UKIP only really stand for three things, white Britain, racism, and homophobia.
Why do people actually vote for them? they should be banned.

Stuart if you ever find out why normal Labour voters think that Ukip are the party for the working man/women please let me know why they vote Ukip.

I have not the foggiest idea myself Redflag love.

Redflag Said: "Stuart if you ever find out why normal Labour voters think that Ukip are the party for the working man/women please let me know why they vote Ukip." It could be for the same reasons loads of Scottish Labour people voted SNP. All I can add to that is "forgive them Father, for they know not what they do"

One way of looking at it them bobby, another is "take them father
they are long overdue".

Political parties in Scotland are a little shy about the actual numbers in membership, but assuming the SNP members number between 25,000 (in 2012, the last published figure) and 30,000 now, they're relying upon the support tomorrow of a large number of so-far-uncommitted voters.

Lovely flow chart - I won't fit in - saved me a journey to Doncaster

Ukip would fund plans to abolish tax for workers on the minimum wage and cut the rate for higher earners by quitting the European Union and ditching High Speed 2, Nigel Farage has said.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/wider-political-news/farage-ukip-would-scrap-hs2-to-cut-tax.1411723524

"Ditching HS2" to cut taxes is very like what poor British people have been forced to do under the Coalition. They've had to ditch holidays and most other kinds of indulgence just to keep warm and fed.

Farage has also said he would cut the highest rate of tax and include National Insurance and would cost the highest earners 40p in the £, even a better deal for the wealthy from Farage than the Tories have given them OW.

oftenwrong wrote:-
Ukip would fund plans to abolish tax for workers on the minimum wage

But if Farage gets his way, there won't be a minimum wage:-


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BimzlksIUAAplxv.jpg

Farage also intends to cut the top rate of tax Ivan, by including National Insurance and tax in a one off payment of 40p in the £.
Heaven help us if Farage and the Tories get together the UK would go down the drain, to be honest Ivan nor do the Tories want to keep the minimum wage that is why they have not implimented the living wage.

You forgot to add ;-
gained popular support for a brief time until the 'man in the street' understood his message was fascism pure and simple

Good old boatlady always remembers the best bit

'Always look on the bright side of life' (sung to the tune of 'Always look on the bright side of life')

Ivan wrote:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwtuVTZCMAAu4z6.jpg

I would like to know when the normal man/women in the street is going to see right through Farage & Ukip, even here in Scotland where we NEVER EVER vote Tory but we have a Ukip MEP which I find scarey will Scotland start voting Tory tho I think the SNP are a bit right wing.

Redflag apologies friend but your post seems a little mixed up, any chance of explaining it properly to me if it is myself that is mixed up :-)

How is a voter to make any sense out of the current British political scene?

Tories move to the Right in order to counter UKIP, and Labour move to the Left to fight off the tarnish of the 2008 credit crunch.

People's Party for the liberation of England, anyone?

We do indeed live in interesting times.

May God bless our souls.
If we possess a soul,
and if there is a God.

Well not a very nice place to live or visit at all is it Ivan, do not suppose it has a UKIP MP by any chance?

stuart torr wrote:Redflag apologies friend but your post seems a little mixed up, any chance of explaining it properly to me if it is myself that is mixed up :-)

All I am saying Stuart is Ukip is more right wing than the Tories, Scotland DOES NOT vote Tory of any shade but some people in Scotland voted for Ukip in the EU elections which surprised me after the reception Edinburgh gave Farage last year. One of the reason I voted NO in the Indy Referendum was that SNP where looking a bit too much to the right for my liking.

Oh right, very true with regards UKIP, I think a lot of the separate parties are turning more right hoping to hold power come the election, if you see what I mean, then joining forces with camshaft can keep him in power.

This is what happened when a UKIP voter tried to explain to James O'Brien what the party stands for:-

http://www.lbc.co.uk/this-ukip-voter-is-skillfully-dispatched-by-james-obrien-98492

Just realised folks that I joined cutting edge a year ago:lol:

That James O'Brien is good

Are you not going to wish me happy anniversary boatlady one year old today.

On the border between Turkey and Syria, the only topic of conversation is the UKIP victory in Clacton, and near-victory ( second, but might as well be 102nd under our FPTP system) in a suburb of a northern English city.

Happy anniversary Stuart - and many happy returns of the day

Ivan wrote:This is what happened when a UKIP voter tried to explain to James O'Brien what the party stands for:-

http://www.lbc.co.uk/this-ukip-voter-is-skillfully-dispatched-by-james-obrien-98492

Thank you Ivan that was some interview the caller could not list one thing to james O'Brien, I think this proves that people voting for Ukip do not have a clue what they stand for, is Farage using brain washing in place of policies? Farage will have to produce a Manifesto if he wants to get seats in the HOC, could Farage fall flat on his face when it comes to a Ukips Manifesto or will he do what Clegg did say one thing and do another when in power.

Since Douglas Carswell won in Clacton Farage will be hanging round the HOC like a bad smell, perhaps Farage will be picking his seat on the green benches.

Thanks boatlady well the year has gone by pretty quick, and most enjoyable.

stuart torr wrote:Thanks boatlady well the year has gone by pretty quick, and most enjoyable.

Happy Anniversery Stuart how have you found your first year I hope you have enjoyed it

Thanks Redflag.
I found it different to my usual forum to start with because the posters are so much friendlier, and there are no votes too which is also a big plus.
Also the left wing side of it is a plus, and it was so easy to get into the swing of things despite the obvious mistake in the first month or two but I always apologise if I make a boob
but it's great.

Well Farage and his boys are aiming to do to Rochester what they did to Clacton next are they not? according to big mouth Farage and the ex-tory who is standing for the seat at Rochester today, nothing is going to stop them now, only voters seeing bleeding sense, the stupid arseholes.

The existence and the current 'success' of UKIP is akin to the prevalence of scurvy when people didn't eat enough fruit or other vitamin C sources. In political terms the nation has lacked a sensible approach to the type of issues upon which UKIP centres.

Moral of the tale ? Get a better diet of Westminster leadership and the 'scurvy' will quickly be consigned to being a thing of the past.

Couldn't agree more, Phil, but the Westminster village likes FPTP polling because "either/or" is a simple proposition, easily understood. Proportional voting is usually difficult to explain, and can result in fragile alliances that engender another General Election at inconvenient moments.

If you need any proof that UKIP is ‘the even nastier party’, have a read of the treatment which Labour MEP Richard Howitt has received for speaking out against disgusting comments made by UKIP candidates about disabled people:-

A toad, a lying piece of excrement, vile, thick, a “dick”, dangerous, supporting “paedos, gang and child rape”, a "dog", hateful, a “vile excuse for a human being”.

These are some of the more polite (and hence printable) insults thrown at me by some 500 UKIP representatives and supporters in an apparently organised attack through social media. Although I regard it as pathetic, many people would find sinister their messages to me saying they are “looking forward to my demise”, “the sooner extinct, the better” and I’ve got “nowhere to hide”.

It seems they’ve noticed a comment in which I drew attention to a blog by the protest group ‘Disabled People Against The Cuts’, who are by two-thirds victims of the iniquitous bedroom tax, which lambasted unsavoury and offensive statements about disabled people made by UKIP candidates or in UKIP policy.

The article showed how UKIP defended the right of one of their local candidates who they described as “excellent” to argue for forced abortion of disabled foetuses; how their 2010 manifesto contained proposals for learning disabled people to be put in segregated communities, and how UKIP’s leader personally said another local candidate could not stand for the party because of his physical disability.

The blanket denials and torrent of abuse from UKIP against me for simply drawing attention to the article continues unabated.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/10/ukip-should-examine-its-own-record-over-disability-tirade

As a technically disabled person if I met that guy I think I would get arrested, but how can they charge me for hitting shit?

IVAN I dispair at the voting public when will they wake up to Ukip and realise they are worse than the Tories, plus it seems the Labour MPs are fighting among themselves regarding Eds leadership can someone bang there heads togetheer because they certainly need it let us hope tomorrow nights meeting sorts this all out.