Is it time that we took a closer look at UKIP?

First topic message reminder :

The UKIP vote in Eastleigh rose from 3.6% in 2010 to 27.8% in the by-election on Thursday. It may have been because the party is mopping up the mid-term protest votes which traditionally went to the Liberal Democrats before they climbed into bed with the devil in May 2010. It may be because many people – wrongly - feel that the three main parties in Westminster are “all the same”, a feeling which the Tories have helped to create by transferring so much real power from democratic accountability to unelected and unaccountable corporations as they privatise everything on which they can lay their grubby hands. What I don’t believe is that this bubble of support for UKIP is because of the party’s reactionary, right-wing policies, which aim to take us back to the 1950s.

The one policy which everyone associates with UKIP is withdrawal from the EU. UKIP has claimed that by leaving the EU, the UK would save over £45 million a day plus £60 billion a year, conveniently ignoring any EU rebates and regional grants. I’m not sure where it gets those figures from, since the Treasury says that the UK paid £8.9 billion into EU budget in 2010/11 (out of £706 billion of public spending). The European Commission puts the UK's net contribution at £5.85 billion.

The EU is the UK's main trading partner, accounting for 52% of our total trade in goods and services; if Britain went for a clean break from the EU, its exports would be subject to EU export tariffs. Millions of jobs could be lost as global manufacturers move to low-cost countries within the EU, and Britain's foreign-owned car industry might well shift into the EU. However, withdrawal from the EU was the issue which UKIP exploited and which put it on the political map. With his half-baked promise of a referendum at some point in the future, the idiotic Cameron has increased UKIP’s credibility by showing that he’s afraid of it.

Cameron also said that UKIP is “full of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists", and perhaps on that last point he could now be right. The Eastleigh by-election showed that UKIP is appealing to racists, causing one person on Twitter to refer to it as “the BNP for the Notting Hill set”. UKIP may be more subtle than the BNP, but it wants to freeze immigration, pandering to the Alf Garnetts who see all foreigners as problems, and has even thrown in the contentious claim that “multiculturalism has split our society”.

In December 2011, the UK had 88,179 people in prison, more per head of the population than any other country in Europe, yet UKIP wants to double the number of prison places. UKIP says that the £2 billion cost of building new prisons is negligible compared to the cost of crime, but it hasn’t factored in the cost of keeping prisoners in jail, which amounts to at least £40,000 a year for each of them. Yet UKIP would refuse to accept European Arrest Warrants, which could well mean delays for the UK in extraditing suspects from other European countries.

The NHS would be no safer with UKIP than it’s been with the Tories, since the party believes that “other models are worth considering to see whether lessons can be learned from abroad”. On education, UKIP wants to bring back grammar schools, so that we can once again tell about 80% of eleven-year-olds that they’re failures, while at the same time giving parents education vouchers, which would be a way of subsidising private school fees.

The cornerstone of UKIP’s tax policies is to roll the employee national insurance and basic rate income tax into a flat rate of income tax of 31%. There would be no higher rate tax, since UKIP perpetuates the Tory lie that the 50% income tax rate cost the economy money; it hasn’t, it has brought in £2.7 billion a year. UKIP’s policy would be a massive tax cut for the rich, far bigger than the one that’s being introduced by the Tories in April. Even greater inequality would be created by abolishing national insurance for employers.

UKIP policies, like so many Tory ones, amount to an attack on our rights. UKIP would put an end to most legislation regarding matters such as weekly working hours, holidays, overtime, redundancy and sick pay, while leaving it up to each employer to decide whether to offer parental leave. It says it would also scrap most ‘equality and discrimination’ legislation.

If you need any more reasons not to vote for UKIP, it denies climate change and would make increased defence spending “a clear priority, even in these difficult times”. It opposes equal marriage, would hold a referendum in each county on ending the hunting ban and would allow smoking in allocated rooms in public houses, clubs and hotels. It’s no wonder that UKIP has been likened to “the political wing of a Home Counties golf club”.

You may not like the EU, and you may think that after 38 years it’s time to hold another referendum on our membership. However, before you vote for a party that makes that its flagship policy, look a little more closely at what else you would be voting for at the same time.

Sources used:-

http://www.ukip.org/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20448450

Maybe it is a 2pt glass Redflag?

Anyone who voted Labour previously and is now thinking of switching to UKIP should take note - Farage is prepared to prop up the Tories if they'll hold an EU referendum next year. Personally I doubt whether UKIP will win more than three seats in the election, and I'm not sure that Farage is capable of propping up anything other than a pub bar.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B6lYggWIAAEjLdS.jpg

Labour will get my vote do not worry.

I am a new comer, an 88 year old lady, so bear with me.. I have voted labour all my life, but I look at the leaders of the main party's and think, ''Would I trust any of them enough to buy a used car off them'' and the answer is a definite 'NO'.
So, where do I go from here, there is a lot I dont like about UKIP, but do we have another Tory / Labour alliance, or would a Tory / UKIP one be better... HELP.

Hi bizzieowen

It's my notion that Ed Milli is keeping his powder dry and will in fact be a decent, left-wingish PM. Having grown up with a Labour government, I'm satisfied that means a bit more fairness than we're getting from the current government's policies. I've heard Ed speak, and my impression was that he is an honest bloke who does listen to what people have to say. At a recent meeting in my home town I saw him deal with random questions from the floor for almost an hour, without appearing to try to fudge - clear answers, clear statements about what he will do - I think he'll be accountable in a way that Cameron et al are not.

A Tory/UKIP alliance would, in my opinion, be even worse than the ConDems, as UKIP policies and political thinking seems quite far to the right of the Tories.

Personally, I'll be voting Labour, as I feel voting for any of the smaller parties that may seem to have policies that are a bit more enticing is only going to split the vote and may have the unwanted outcome of giving Cameron and his mates another 5 years.

Another 5 years of Tory government will likely see the NHS dismantled, along with most other public services, GB out of the EU, which I think would be very bad for us economically, and inequality completely off the scale. I don't think services and financial support for us older citizens will be at all exempt from the Tories' ideological desire to shrink the state, and growing old with any measure of dignity will be the prerogative only of the seriously rich - for the rest of us - the workhouse.

Them's my thoughts for what they're worth - I'm not really politically minded and I'm sure some wiser heads than mine will be giving a view in due course.

By the way, welcome to the forum

Hello bizzieowen my love, welcome to the forum.
Voting for UKIP is for voters that are basically very racist, and who would wish to take us out of the E.U. along with the Tories i'm afraid, which as boatlady said in her post would be bad for us economically.
Voting Tory then you will lose the free NHS, and I hope you are well provided for financially as pensions will go down too under a next tory government if they got into power.
A Tory UKIP alliance would be disastrous altogether with what they now both think together.
The best alternative is of course to go to the left with Labour, who at least so far we have a chance of him keeping his word unlike the tories have done over the last 5years have they?
Best of luck in your decision, and I hope you make the right one bizzieowen, and take care.

Hi bzziowen

Welcome to cutting edge and hope you get answer to the question you posed so here is my twopence worth.

You have seen over the last 5years how the Tories & L/Ds are paying the deficit down off the backs of the sick disabled unemployed  and making scapegoats out of them.    But those earning over £150.000 per year got a 5p tax cut bringing them in another £40,000 per year custisey of the Chancer of Exchequer, which costs the treasury £3billion a year less coming in to pay for our public services.    The Tories have ner been kean on our NHS they where against its conception in 1947 and have been trying to get rid of it since then, the Tories where agains the minimum wage when the Labour party brought it in.   As for the NHS let me put you straight on that after 18 years of the Thatcher gov't and she neglected it so by the time of 1997 when Labour came back into to power the waiting list for operations was at 18 months, people where dying waiting for there operations so Tony Blair gave the private health sector money to do operations so people did not die for the want of an operation.

As for Ukip there policies are worse than the Tories in fact you could not get a cigarette paper between the two of them bizzieowen.

I am with the rest of the people on this forum Ed Miliband will make a good PM, he may not have Camerons charisma or as I say LIE through his back teeth to the good people of the UK, so if you want a fair for all gov't vote Labour they will not make scapegoats out of the disabled which has caused crimes both verbal & physical to rise since the Tories came into power plus Osborne has said he will take another £12 billion out of Welfare which I would reckon will lead to the building of the WORKHOUSEs that were in use many years ago.

One more thing bizzieowen I have always been just a Labour voter all my voting life that was until 2010 when the Tories got voted into gov't then I became a Labour party member and very proud to be so, the reason I joined is simple I knew what was coming from the Tories after living through 18 years of Thatchers Tory gov't.

How many voters thinking of supporting UKIP in the next Election realise they would probably be voting for a Tory who thinks Cameron's government hasn't gone far enough?

I am hoping not many OW, because if the Ukip voters get there way in the general election we are all in trouble we will all suffer from the nasty policies they will bring in.

I will second that Redflag, very nasty ones at that.

Accoding to Osborne he will cut £12 billion from Welfare but according to the OBR that is more like £21 billion to meet the deficit that Osborne wants to do, but Osborne has already said that those 18-25yr olds will not receive any housing benefit so up will go those living rough will go through the roof.

The panicking Jeremy Hunt, emailed hospitals in trouble and told them to tell him what it needed to get them out of it, the thing was he wanted the answer 4 hours later.
Is he panicking or what?

Nigel will be enjoying the sight of Tories and Labour carving lumps off of each other over the current NHS drama as it plays out on the nation's media.

Probably will get him more votes unfortunately eh OW.

Redflag surely they cannot stop the 18-25 year old's from getting housing benefit? what if they are already in receipt of it? have no family? they really cannot be such arse holes surely?

I am afraid I am right stuart they have said this will be in there 2015 Manifesto where do you think Osborne is going to get his £12 billion of cuts off the Welfare bill, I am ceertain that Ivan will have heard all about ir even some of the others on this forum.

Oh my god Redflag, they are going to need more space on the streets for them to sleep and food help,and clothing, and washing.
How do they expect them to go to job interviews like that?
This country is dying on it's knees under this Tory government, but Labour will not be able to put it right in their first year or maybe not even their second either.
As this is going to take some decent thinking to put right starting firstly I hope with the NHS which is on it's knees and near to breaking point now, as so many staff are leaving it as they cannot take anymore, my local 2 hospitals have hit crisis point now.

If Ed is fair to the people of the UK he will get another term in office stuart, and by that time people will see the real Ed Miliband and give him a third and even fourth term that is when we will have to remind folk what the Tories are capable of doing to the UK.

I can see him getting a third term in office at least Redflag, just hoping that he gets in this time, which is the crucial one I can assure you. The stupid people in this country just sometimes cannot see the wood for the trees and that is being a kind way to describe the damn Tories. This is the most crucial election in years, we have to make sure that labour win outright.

Getting back to UKIP.........

If that is not enough reasons not to vote for UKIP Ivan, then the people must be blind or stupid or both.

It is just that some people are easily fooled stuart, if you look at the people that are voting Ukip in local & by-election plus EU elections they are just as good as the Tories at telling barefaced LIES

Very true Redflag, a lot of people are easily fooled are they not.

"I'm dismayed that Nigel Farage immediately thinks, on the back of the bloody murders that we saw on the streets of Paris, that his first reflex is to seek to make political points.” (Nick Clegg)

Farage's exploitation of the Charlie Hebdo murders is a new low

From an article by George Eaton:-

“With its assortment of racists, homophobes and all-purpose bigots, UKIP may have raised the shock threshold in British politics, but Nigel Farage's response to the Charlie Hebdo murders is still breathtaking in its cynicism. Rather than offering a simple expression of sympathy for the victims' families, and a defence of free speech, Farage could not resist grandstanding against multiculturalism.

In these circumstances, there is little more destructive than his casual equation of multiculturalism with terrorism (the irony being that France is one of the least multicultural countries in Europe), let alone his use of the knowingly toxic ‘fifth column’. As scholars of Islamist extremism point out, jihadists (such as the 7/7 bombers) are often among the most notionally ‘integrated’ citizens. Fortunately, and unlike on other occasions when Farage has offended basic decency, he has been swiftly condemned by all parties.

There are some, on left and right, who write of Farage as a welcome addition to the British political scene, a cheeky chappie taking on the establishment. But on the day that Ofcom has ruled (rightly) that UKIP is now a ‘major party’, his exploitation of the Paris murders is a reminder of his malign intent.”

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/01/farages-exploitation-charlie-hebdo-murders-new-low

Almost as inflammatory in its way as the 'Rivers of blood' speech

I would hope Ivan that people had Farages number long before what happened in Paris, though it is possible for some people to still be fooled but they must be going round with there rose tinted specs on.

Or the poor people may be blind altogether, which would explain a lot.

Lynton Yates is the UKIP parliamentary candidate for Charnwood for the general election in May. He wants to ban all benefit claimants from driving in order to ease congestion on Britain’s roads, and he thinks cyclists should be forced to ride on the pavement. The leaflet in which he makes these statements ends with: "Yet again we're proposing common sense policies and common sense solutions".  

It’s hardly surprising that Labour’s shadow health minister, Jamie Reed, has called UKIP “not so much a political party as a stag night out of control”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/11361505/Ban-the-jobless-from-driving-to-ease-congestion-Ukip-candidate-says.html

If UKIP really wanted to clear the roads of traffic they might suggest removing all those vehicles which haven't actually been paid for yet.

oftenwrong wrote:If UKIP really wanted to clear the roads of traffic they might suggest removing all those vehicles which haven't actually been paid for yet.

Ot those cars that are controlled by Idiots like Ukip candidates

tlttf wrote:What a wonderful blinkered view of UKIP Ivan, why is pulling out of the EU a negative, we buy more than we sell to them are they going to tell us to piss off? At least UKIP have said what they want to do (simplicity is good), what are labour offering to the working man?

What makes you think the price of what we buy won't increase if we were rash or shortsighted enough to leave the EU? Couple that prospect with the import tariffs they'd likely impose on us and UKIP'a simple plan is precisely that, simple and ill conceived.

The cynic in me thinks they're playing on base fears to push their own agenda. Improving our position in the EU is a far better idea' but that takes time and effort which are much harder work than telling people what they want to hear with a snappy slogan that you're unlikely to ever have to make good on.

Meet Nigel Farage:-

http://www.meetnigelfarage.com/   

Well he had to look smart OW, so he could tell everybody that the NHS is a waste of time.
Also to echo your view Ivan I believe he deserves more than one,

That Nigel Farage - he'll say anything but his prayers

He says them to himself boatlady, as he thinks he is god.

stuart torr wrote:Well he had to look smart OW, so he could tell everybody that the NHS is a waste of time.
Also to echo your view Ivan I believe he deserves more than one,  

Farage will be just like this lot we have right now, they will say anything until they get your vote then once there in atell some LIE for not keeping there Manifesto promise stuart.

Fortunately Redflag, I cannot see garage and UKIP winning that many seats Redflag, so he can go back to his beer drinking days.

That is the best place for Farage stuart, the place where he is hoping to get his own seat is South Thanet (Kent) but the females in ST are trying to stop him

NO way I have had to just call 999 for an ambulance for a friend who was on the floor almost unconcious almost passed away, and helped the crew sort things out give all his details etc, that is when my old nurse training comes back, you never bottle things my darling--x--