Ed Miliband.... an unknown quantity?

by Papaumau Thu May 02, 2013 11:59 am

First topic message reminder :

Any of us that follow British politics will know that our Ed was elected to the leadership of the Labour party by a very narrow margin of votes that were bolstered by the votes from the unions. With this in mind, I am tempted to ask:

Is Ed Miliband, like his father was, ( an intellectual Marxist ), or is he a closet Blairite ?

I think we all knew that his brother David WAS a Blairite and now that he is gone and out of British politics there is surely nothing to stop Ed Miliband from admitting that he is a true Socialist.

I think we know that Ed Miliband, as the leader of the Labour party and as the opposition leader in the commons has to keep many of his plans for Britain's political future under wraps because he does not want to give too much away to the opposition before the general election hustings in 2015, BUT.... do you people think that he is holding too many of his cards too close to his chest when potential voters like us are crying out for signs of a future Labour Prime Minister ?

OR.... do any of you think that Ed Miliband just has not got it in him to be the next Labour Prime Minister of Britain?

Regards.....

Papaumau.

by **Phil Hornby** Wed May 08, 2013 6:37 pm

I always feel it's a shame when landy has nothing in the pantry for tea and finds himself with too much time on his hands... Very Happy

by **Ivan** Wed May 08, 2013 9:46 pm

Extracts from Ed Miliband’s reply to the Queen’s Speech:-

Referring to Iain Duncan Smith's suggestion that wealthy pensioners hand back their winter fuel payments, he asked Cameron: "Why don’t you set an example and hand back the tax cut you’ve given yourself?"

Seizing on David Davis's plea for "no more Old Etonian advisers", he quipped that it was "time for some diversity, let's have someone from Harrow".

After the abandonment of minimum alcohol pricing and plain cigarette packaging, Miliband also brought up Lynton Crosby's links to the alcohol and tobacco industries, declaring, once again, that Cameron stands up for "the wrong people". This is what they used to say about cigarette packaging: “It's wrong that children are being attracted to smoke by glitzy designs on packets … children should be protected from the start.” “But that was the previous Health Secretary. Before they hired their new strategist. The one whose company worked for big tobacco. And now what’s happened? They’ve dropped the bill.”

"The lesson for the Prime Minister is you can’t out-Farage Farage. Banging on about Europe won’t convince the public. And the people behind him will just keep coming back for more. A Europe referendum tomorrow. Drop same sex marriage. The demands go on and on. They will never be satisfied. And every day he spends dealing with the problem behind him, he’s not dealing with the problems facing the country."

Probably his best moment was when he referenced the calls from Tory MPs for a pact or even a coalition with UKIP: "They used to call them clowns. Now they want to join the circus.”

by oftenwrong Wed May 08, 2013 10:40 pm

Electors who regard Ed Miliband as a lightweight will probably have the opportunity to vote instead for a snake-oil salesman, a Posh Boy or (another) Posh Boy. Though that may change to be a different Posh Boy if Boris's supporters have their way.

"Goodbye, Cruel World, I'm off to join the Circus!"

by Redflag Thu May 09, 2013 12:45 am

Did anybody hear Dennis Skinner's reply to Black Rod today "Royal Mail for Sale, Queens Head to be PRIVATIZED" trust our Dennis our one ray of SUNSHINE amongst a lot of nothing else from this shower of F***IES that calls itself our gov't.

by tlttf Thu May 16, 2013 4:09 pm

Just when the economy is picking up and labour are staying quiet (as usual) one of their own opens up.

Dan Hodges
Dan Hodges is a Blairite cuckoo in the Miliband nest. He has worked for the Labour Party, the GMB trade union and managed numerous independent political campaigns. He writes about Labour with tribal loyalty and without reservation.
Ignore the Tory Euro-turmoil. The economy is improving and Ed Miliband still has the political nous of a whelk

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100217259/ignore-the-tory-euro-turmoil-the-economy-is-improving-and-ed-miliband-still-has-the-political-nous-of-a-whelk/

by **Ivan** Thu May 16, 2013 4:50 pm

Just when the economy is picking up....The economy is improving

tlttf. You must be joking! No doubt the 15,000 increase in unemployment announced this week inspired that crass remark. But if a Tory rag says it, you're bound to accept it at face value, aren't you?

He writes about Labour with tribal loyalty and without reservation.

Utter rubbish. Dan Hodges voted for Boris Johnson last year.

Don't tell people what they have to read, and kindly get out of the habit of repeating yourself when you make your dreary contributions. Posting a lie twice doesn't make it any closer to the truth.

by Redflag Thu May 16, 2013 5:23 pm

Deleted for breach of posting rule 1. Ivan.

https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t18-posting-rules

by cybercheshired Fri May 17, 2013 8:46 pm

The lesson of Brown was ignored with choice of Ed. A leader must look the part. Sad but true. Blair and Cameron do. Ed doesn't. Labour seem to following the Hague/ IDS/Howard path to disaster

by boatlady Fri May 17, 2013 9:09 pm

One always hopes people will vote on the issues - but sadly personalities do seem to have the last word

by **Ivan** Fri May 17, 2013 9:31 pm

personalities do seem to have the last word

More so since so many people have been dumbed down by reality TV shows. I can't begin to understand the mentality of anyone who could watch someone sitting on the 'Big Brother' settee eating pot noodles. Watching paint dry is probably more exciting.

In the days when politicians weren't required to be television celebrities, Clement Attlee led the Labour Party to a landslide victory over Winston Churchill.

by Redflag Fri May 17, 2013 9:41 pm

cybercheshired wrote:The lesson of Brown was ignored with choice of Ed. A leader must look the part. Sad but true. Blair and Cameron do. Ed doesn't. Labour seem to following the Hague/ IDS/Howard path to disaster

Choice did not come into it cybercheshired Ed Miliband was voted in by EVERYONE that holds a Labour party membership card, and before you go on about the Unions its the Union members that donate so much a month out of there salaries to go the Labour party that gives them the RIGHT to vote in election within the Labour party. You seem to be writing Ed off far too quickly, IMHO I think he is keeping his powder dry until the time is right when the likes of Cameron and Cleggy have wrote him off plus the nasty cuts this coalition are bringing in forcing the low paid sick and disabled to pay for the bankers night at the Casino (bankers bail out) while the bankers are still getting there huge salaries and ENORMOUS bonuses. cheers

by oftenwrong Fri May 17, 2013 10:38 pm

boatlady wrote:One always hopes people will vote on the issues - but sadly personalities do seem to have the last word

A purely personal explanation draws on the prevailing anti-socialist bias of the media. Many Readers find it convenient to have their opinions suggested by Newspaper Proprietors - who are never going to favour power to the people or "fair shares for all".

Accordingly, popular opinion studiously ignores self-interest at Election time, in favour of right-wing propaganda. How stupid can you get?

by boatlady Sat May 18, 2013 11:12 am

It's a bit like Turkeys voting for Christmas

by oftenwrong Sat May 18, 2013 12:52 pm

cybercheshired wrote:The lesson of Brown was ignored with choice of Ed. A leader must look the part. Sad but true. Blair and Cameron do. Ed doesn't. Labour seem to following the Hague/ IDS/Howard path to disaster

American Republicans who accepted that argument elected a Hollywood Film Star to be their President.

by skwalker1964 Sat May 18, 2013 7:05 pm

tlttf wrote:Just when the economy is picking up and labour are staying quiet (as usual) one of their own opens up.

Dan Hodges
Dan Hodges is a Blairite cuckoo in the Miliband nest. He has worked for the Labour Party, the GMB trade union and managed numerous independent political campaigns. He writes about Labour with tribal loyalty and without reservation.
Ignore the Tory Euro-turmoil. The economy is improving and Ed Miliband still has the political nous of a whelk

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100217259/ignore-the-tory-euro-turmoil-the-economy-is-improving-and-ed-miliband-still-has-the-political-nous-of-a-whelk/

The economy's improving? A manufactured 0.1% GDP increase that will be adjusted away when it's less damaging, and a 15k rise in unemployment (which is far bigger but masked by workfare and the continued rise in low-paid, low-hours jobs).

Hodges' mother should have him over her knee - after all, Glenda Jackson is no shrinking violet - and if he hasn't already been kicked out of the Labour party he should be.

If the Telegraph is your barometer of what's going on, you're doomed to misread the 'weather', 't'.

by oftenwrong Mon May 20, 2013 7:59 pm

As is usual preceding a General Election, all sorts of creatures emerge from the woodwork. The above is only one example. Labour's eminence gris Lord Mandelson is already proferring advice and will not be alone in bending Miliband's ear. Although the description "Champagne Socialist" could have been devised precisely for Peter M.

The next General Election is Labour's to lose, but the surprising thing is how many Labour "Supporters" are uncertain about that outcome.

With friends like that, who needs enemies?

by sickchip Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:44 am

With recent Labour statements on welfare, pensions, etc showing them pandering to Daily Mailesque opinion and 'getting tough', Ed's Labour party appear to be closer to the Tory party than many imagined. Have they been listening to Blair?

Ed's reputation as being left of centre is beginning to look extremely dubious.

What do Labour supporters think?

by tlttf Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:22 am

As you know sickchip, I'm no labour supporter. All the political pollsters are calling them "The Blue Labour Party", considering previously they were led by Blair, that's quite an achievement. The same pollsters are calling the tories "The Red Tory Party" though, so who knows.

by boatlady Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:40 am

Cut costs by helping the long-term unemployed back to work
• Make sure jobs are well-paid to reward work, so the state does not face rising subsidies for low pay
• Get the cost of renting down by ensuring more homes are built – thereby reducing the welfare bill
• Cap social security spending by focusing on the deep-rooted reasons benefit spending goes up.

extract from current Labour policy - you can find it on Twitter or Facebook - red enough for me
scratch

by Redflag Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:18 am

tlttf wrote:As you know sickchip, I'm no labour supporter. All the political pollsters are calling them "The Blue Labour Party", considering previously they were led by Blair, that's quite an achievement. The same pollsters are calling the tories "The Red Tory Party" though, so who knows.

tittf the Tory will NEVER be any shade of RED in the creation of craws shyte, they will never endorse Socalist Values so until they do they will always be blue.

by **Ivan** Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:25 pm

tlttf wrote:-
I'm no labour supporter.

Thanks for telling us. We would never have guessed. Sleep

All the political pollsters are calling them "The Blue Labour Party"

No they’re not.

The same pollsters are calling the tories "The Red Tory Party" though

Pure fiction. Why do you make this stuff up? I read enough polls and I’ve never come across that absurd phrase.

Anyone who thinks there’s anything ‘red’ about the most right-wing government in living memory must have spent too much time reading ‘The Daily Mail’ and the blogs of crackpots like John Redwood.

by Redflag Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:21 pm

IVAN Do you think perhaps tittf has had a bit too much of the sun I know there has not been that hot but surely this sort of TRIPE can not just come from that rag Daily Fail there must be more too it or he has been through the Tory party sausage machine too many times.

by Ivanhoe Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:11 pm

blueturando wrote:
Sadly Blair had the charisma but did not have the vision, and even if Ed Miliband does not have much charisma I would hope that he might have the vision to take the Labour party back to its roots, where it should be.

Papa....I think you do Blair a disservice, he got middle England voting for Labour once again. His vision was to bury the worst of the Labour party in the past and the a great extent that's what he managed to do

I am totally sick of governments of the past kowtowing to the right wing, ( including New-Labour ), when there is a magnificent tradition of middle-of-the-road Socialism just waiting to be reborn

I agree Papa, there is an imbalance in our society that favours the right, but I think the right have gaged the mood of the people and exploiting this to their advantage.
On the other hand Left wing socialism has disconnected with the realities of the modern world we live in and if it was possible to stick to 'Middle of the road socialism' then (taking my Tory hat off for a moment) I think we would have a better society. The problem is with both the Left and right, when you give them too much power they always go to the extremes and this is where you lose the publics faith...and ultimately their vote

bluey, What would you call the worst of the Labour party ?

Ivanhoe

by boatlady Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:39 pm

Nice to see you Ivanhoe - not really sure what the extended (old) quote is for

by blueturando Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:13 am

bluey, What would you call the worst of the Labour party ?

Ivanhoe

Sorry Ivanhoe, I cannot answer your question as I am no longer posting on Cutting Edge...but I do drop by for a read from time to time

I hope you are well sir

by Ivanhoe Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:10 am

blueturando wrote:
bluey, What would you call the worst of the Labour party ?

Ivanhoe

Sorry Ivanhoe, I cannot answer your question as I am no longer posting on Cutting Edge...but I do drop by for a read from time to time

I hope you are well sir

That's almost funny bluey.

Ivanhoe

by bobby Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:52 pm

blueturando said: Sorry Ivanhoe, I cannot answer your question as I am no longer posting on Cutting Edge...but I do drop by for a read from time to time

Hello Bluey mate, Although I will not miss having to see your Avatar again, I most certainly will miss your input to these boards. Please reconsider as you have more friends (not political) than you may think. Bob.

by blueturando Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:44 pm

Thank you Bobby, that's really appreciated.....Just got fed up with being gagged all the time, so I post somewhere else now. Its a shame because without differing views from the likes of me a tlttf there seems to be no debate. Just looking at the forum and it seems very quiet of late and maybe thats the reason

bluey, What would you call the worst of the Labour party ?

Ivanhoe

However I will answer the question. For me the worst of the Labour Party is the hypocrisy that's on display. The party and core supporters will kick and scream over Tory policies and cuts, painting them as the 'Nasty' Party, but will then keep said policies and cuts if they come into power.....So what choice does the electorate have right now

Ed Miliband will today tell the party faithfull at the national policy forum that he would NOT reverse ANY of the cuts made by the coalition, dispite opposing every coalition cut made, unless he can make cuts to other government budgets...which he cannot.

So is Ed really RED or will he change his policies to try and garner more votes rather than stick to his so called Labour principles

by boatlady Sat Jun 22, 2013 5:44 pm

blue, sorry you feel you've been 'gagged all the time' As I recall it, you had a couple of 24 hour bans for breaking forum rules - same as several others, including redflag as I recall.

http://t.co/19ggvqBQL2

transcript of the speech I believe you are referring to

Put our young people back to work and give every young person a chance at a qualification.
Radically reform our banks so that they serve our country.
Take on all the vested interests that hold our country back.
Protect and improve our NHS.
Invest in the homes and infrastructure of the future.
And safeguard our environment for generations to come.

seems a worthwhile set of objectives for a start.
Not sure what the coalition is going to be promising - maybe you'll let us know?

by oftenwrong Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:21 pm

Whatever any other party leader says between now and the General Election will automatically be rubbished by the Tory Party's media wonks - and vice versa - it's what they all do.

What support might the Public give to a Government of National Unity however? I'll let someone else answer that.

by Redflag Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:52 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Whatever any other party leader says between now and the General Election will automatically be rubbished by the Tory Party's media wonks - and vice versa - it's what they all do.

What support might the Public give to a Government of National Unity however? I'll let someone else answer that.

OW I think the people of the UK will rubbish the Tory gov't, and they have every right with the economy not growing since they took office, in truth there are three things that have grown 1) bankers bonuses 2) the number of Millionaires 3) the gap between the have and have nots.

by tlttf Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:11 pm

You forgot number 4 Red.

The labour government won't change a thing unless it benefits them personally.

by oftenwrong Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:40 pm

The labour government won't change a thing unless it benefits them personally

Which differentiates them from your esteemed self in precisely what respect, tlttf?

by sickchip Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:19 pm

Are the cruel Tory welfare reforms ok - now that Red Ed and his Labour party are supporting them?

by oftenwrong Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:44 pm

t'ole world's mad 'cept thee and me, sickchip.
Though I'm not so sure about thee.

by sickchip Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:57 pm

Indeed, ow. Indeed Exclamation

by **Ivan** Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:52 am

blueturando wrote:-
Just got fed up with being gagged all the time

You haven’t been “gagged” for your odious views but for your continued breaches of the house rules, especially on not using threads to make complaints, which you appear to be doing once again. Your repeated targeting of one female member also got you into hot water. But never mind, you carry on pretending that you were censored for your political stance, even if it is a whopping lie.

For me the worst of the Labour Party is the hypocrisy that's on display.

If you want hypocrisy, start with that disgusting avatar of yours. “Where there is discord, we will bring harmony”, said the most divisive Prime Minister in modern history. “We have no plans to increase VAT”, she said, even though papers released under the 30-year rule showed that Geoffrey Howe had briefed the Treasury before the 1979 election of the proposal to increase VAT from 8% to 15% within weeks. Still, this thread is no place to be discussing your ‘hero’, as you called her elsewhere.

As OW has reminded us several times, it is the duty of the opposition to oppose. I don’t recall Cameron being reluctant to criticise all and sundry, and even to blame Gordon Brown for the global credit crunch, but then lies are second nature to Tories, their whole philosophy is based on myths which the gullible are persuaded to believe.

For what it’s worth, I suspect that most of the Labour supporters here are opposed to austerity, because it hurts the poor most and doesn’t actually work. It’s just an excuse for right-wingers to shrink the state. Ed Miliband and Ed Balls have decided that it’s best not to raise people’s hopes and expectations and to appear ‘fiscally responsible’, but I have no doubt that they will behave very differently from this cruel outfit when they sweep to power in 2015.

Ed Miliband will today tell the party faithfull at the national policy forum that he would NOT reverse ANY of the cuts made by the coalition, dispite opposing every coalition cut made, unless he can make cuts to other government budgets...which he cannot.

Yes he can. When there is a shortage of school places in some parts of the country, it makes no sense to do what Gove is doing, building his free schools in other areas where there is a surplus of places. Labour can also tax differently. This is what Ed Miliband actually said to Labour’s national policy forum:-

“So when people ask you what difference Labour would make right now if we were in government, let’s tell them.

We would tax those bankers’ bonuses, so we can guarantee work for the young people who’ve been out of work for more than a year.

We would cancel that millionaires’ tax cut and use the money to protect the tax credits that help make work pay for millions of ordinary families.

And we’d have a Mansion Tax on houses worth over £2 million and use the money to bring back a 10p starting rate of tax.

Those with the broadest shoulders should always carry the biggest burden.”

http://www.labour.org.uk/the-discipline-to-make-a-difference---ed-miliband

Its a shame because without differing views from the likes of me a tlttf there seems to be no debate. Just looking at the forum and it seems very quiet of late and maybe thats the reason

Don’t delude yourself. There are plenty of differences between the social democrats and socialists, the monarchists and the republicans, the pro- and anti- EU posters, the religious and the atheists, those who favour universal benefits or means tests etc etc, without having to rely on tired old Tory lies to stimulate discussion. The forum went very quiet this time last year, as the discussion in our staff room indicates, partly due to the summer – holidays, gardening, Wimbledon, people wanting to get outside rather than sit behind a computer. Having both administrators away recently probably hasn’t helped.

I post somewhere else now.

I remember your enthusiasm when an aggressive EDL/UKIP moron, so stupid that he used a medieval Frenchman as his avatar, dropped in here and broke our rules by advertising another website on our forum. However, as we know, you have no respect for house rules. So maybe you’re happy now wallowing around in his recommended sewer, that’s your choice.

by Redflag Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:04 pm

Thank you Ivan for putting tittf and blue straight and you have cleared up a few things for me, as for Geofrey Howe and the vat increase Cameron did something similar on the run up to the 2010 G.E "The NHS is safe in my Hands" we all know its the Tory Ideology to do away with the state as we know it.

I do believe Ivan when Labour get into power in 2015 they will find so much SHYTE that the Tories and Lib-Dems have left for them they will be shovelling 24/7 for many months, the only problem will be that most of them that caused this will not be in the H.O.C as the people of the UK will have kicked them out, and I am glad to say the Tories divide and rule will not have worked.

by blueturando Fri Jun 28, 2013 12:49 am

Ivan....I know you must be storming around with steam coming out of your ears now that your beloved Labour party have shown their true colours and now agree with the coalitions cuts....Red Ed is looking a bit more tangoed these days and it wont be long before turns a shade of blue, bless him....But....

You haven’t been “gagged” for your odious views but for your continued breaches of the house rules, especially on not using threads to make complaints, which you appear to be doing once again. Your repeated targeting of one female member also got you into hot water. But never mind, you carry on pretending that you were censored for your political stance, even if it is a whopping lie

I wish as a moderator you wouldn't use the forum to complain about me, perhaps you could address this with a personal message....thank you.

I also did not single out a particular poster...that person posts the most messages on here and thats why I was engaged in debate with her. If it was one of our fellow posters I would (and have) engage in the same way. Do you have the same concerns for me or TLTTF, or do you make exceptions in our case? When this poster goes on 'wild rants' without any basis or coherence, I questioned her and you think that's bullying. When TLTTF posts you happily hone in like a scud missile and berate him over half a page or more....A balanced approach to ALL posters is needed

No idea who the EDL/UKIP poster was and have not followed them to any site. I am sure you will trawl the forum history to find this example, but I have long forgotten

you have no respect for house rules

Practice what you preach and there will be no issues my friend

THIS IS NOT A COMPLAINT ON THE FORUM, I AM JUST RESPONDING TO YOUR POST....So I hope you wont use your position to delete this message as you have allowed your own to stand

Peace and olive branches....Blue

by **Ivan** Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:16 am

blueturando wrote:-
THIS IS NOT A COMPLAINT ON THE FORUM, I AM JUST RESPONDING TO YOUR POST

...which is exactly what I was doing to your claim of being "gagged", but then hypocrisy knows no bounds when it comes to a Tory. Had you not posted that lie for all our members to see, it would not have been necessary for me to refute it. Once again you're behaving like a troll.

Posting five successive messages to one member, some clearly designed to goad her, is nothing short of harassment and won't be tolerated.

What a poor memory you have! The poster you so admired for his right-wing rants, unsupported by any facts or sources, went by the name of 'Internet cynic'. And you've conveniently forgotten that when you reported a derogatory posting about tlttf, it was removed immediately.
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t782-censorship

You're well aware that if you want to conduct a conversation with another member, there is a personal messaging system for that purpose. Use it and you can tell as many lies as you like, make as many libellous statements as you like, and noboby but the recipient of your message will ever see them.

Now perhaps you will, for once, conduct any further discussion with me, should it be necessary, by personal message; the rules do apply to you, even though you never seem to have accepted that fact.

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