Welcome to Cutting Edge. Guests can see and read the contents of most of the boards on this forum but need to become members to read all of them. Currently membership is instant, but new accounts may be deleted if not activated within fourteen days.

If you decide to join the forum, please open your welcome message for further details. New members are requested to introduce themselves on the appropriate thread on our welcome board.

Members may post messages and start threads, but it is essential that they read our posting rules and advice before doing so. If you have any immediate questions or queries, please post them on the suggestions board.

After posting at least ten messages, members are able to contact each other and the staff through our personal messaging system.

This forum is administrated by Ivan and moonbeam and moderated by boatlady and astradt1.

Thank you for visiting Cutting Edge.

Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by Ivan on Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:23 pm

The Elgin Marbles (more appropriately known as ‘The Parthenon Marbles’) are a collection of 88 classical Greek marble sculptures that used to be part of the Parthenon and other buildings on the Acropolis of Athens. In 1811, when Greece was part of the Ottoman Empire, Lord Elgin obtained permission to do some excavating, but actually removed about half of the surviving sculptures of the Parthenon and transported them by sea to Britain. They have been in the British Museum in London since 1816.

Greece, which became an independent country in 1830, wants the sculptures returned to them. It considers that the cutting and removal of the monuments was illegal, a blatant act of vandalism and the theft of intellectual property. The Greeks have raised the issue on an international level since the 1980s, with the Greek actress, singer and politician Melina Mercouri (1920-1994) leading the campaign. Neil Kinnock promised that if Labour won the general election of 1992 the sculptures would be returned to Greece, but sadly for the Greeks (and for us) it didn’t win. This year UNESCO has agreed to mediate in resolving the dispute, but there hasn't yet been a response from the UK.

So why haven’t the sculptures been returned to Greece? Boris Johnson is vehemently opposed to the suggestion, stupidly describing it as a “Hitlerian agenda for London’s cultural treasures”. The Parthenon was built in the 5th century BC by the city-state of Athens, long before Greece existed as a country. Elgin had a licence from the Turkish rulers of Athens to tamper with the site and he may have saved the sculptures from a worse fate at the hands of the Turks. The British state bought the sculptures from Elgin and turned them over to the British Museum, whose trustees are now their legal owners. Sending one set of artefacts to Greece would set a precedent: museums all over the world might then be expected to send exhibits to the modern nation states occupying the land on which they were built or found. ‘The Mona Lisa’, dating from the early 16th century, was "acquired" by King Francis I of France and has been in The Louvre in Paris since 1797; do you think the French would ever send it back to Italy, which didn’t exist as a nation before the 1860s?

I certainly don’t buy much of that. Can you imagine the reaction if a British monument had been treated in the same way as the Parthenon? Supposing Big Ben had been taken by the Nazis and sold ‘legally’ to another country (how’s that for a “Hitlerian agenda”, Boris?), or if the Greeks had relocated Stonehenge to Athens or taken the Crown Jewels from the Tower of London! Even Elgin’s licence from the Turkish rulers of Athens was probably exceeded, since asset-stripping isn’t quite the same thing as excavating. As to possibly saving the sculptures from destruction by the Turks, that’s hardly a claim to legitimate ownership; if you stop a thief from stealing some of your neighbour’s property, it doesn’t make it yours. The bottom line for me is that if you take something that doesn’t belong to you, and you get caught, then you have to give it back. Theft is theft, and the passage of time doesn’t lessen the crime.

Opinion polls in the last two decades have shown that Britons overwhelmingly agree with Neil Kinnock and think the sculptures should be returned. The Greeks have even suggested joint curatorship of them through the establishment of a branch of the British Museum, within sight of the Parthenon, on the top floor of the new Acropolis Museum. Writing in ‘The Guardian’, Josephine Quinn said: “There's a persuasive argument that people should have the chance to see the marbles beside the Acropolis on which they were first erected. In the new Acropolis Museum, the Parthenon itself is visible through the windows of the room in which the marbles would be displayed together with the fragments that remained in Athens. The sculptures currently split in two – including a decapitated goddess and a great procession that disappears half way through – would be reunited, and would finally make all their sense. Athens is no less accessible than London to the rest of the world, and to see and think about this temple and almost all of its sculpture on the same morning, under the same Athenian sky, would be a privilege and a joy.”

Sources used:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_Marbles

http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2014/oct/19/return-the-elgin-marbles-to-athens-helena-smith

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/14/parthenon-marbles-greece-george-clooney
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 6834
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by stuart torr on Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:52 pm

Wow Ivan.
I really did not know that is how we got them, technically speaking we are thieves are we not? I believe without a doubt that they should go back to Greece straight away. If it does set precedence's for other artifacts/paintings ETC then so be it, it cannot be helped.
avatar
stuart torr
Deceased

Posts : 3187
Join date : 2013-10-10
Age : 57
Location : Nottingham. England. UK.

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Nov 02, 2014 12:11 pm

The phrase "Dog in a manger" would seem to apply.

However, if a general principle were to be established that historical artefacts ought to be returned to their original site, most of the world's Museums would soon look like the scene of a major burglary.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11527
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by stuart torr on Sun Nov 02, 2014 2:41 pm

How come OW? France returns stuff to Italy? now surely a country has something of France's? we return the Elgin Marbles? Has a country got something of ours? and it all carries on like that, so we would have something to replace them, if not it would only be England losing out would it not?
avatar
stuart torr
Deceased

Posts : 3187
Join date : 2013-10-10
Age : 57
Location : Nottingham. England. UK.

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by Ivan on Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:27 pm

oftenwrong wrote:-
if a general principle were to be established that historical artefacts ought to be returned to their original site….
I understand the point that returning the Elgin Marbles could set a precedent, but I think this case is unique for several reasons:-

- The sculptures were acquired in very dubious circumstances. It’s not even clear that the Ottoman rulers of Athens gave permission for the wanton acts of vandalism which Elgin carried out. He didn’t pay anyone for his acquisitions. On the other hand, many of the artefacts in museums around the world have been purchased legally.

- There’s a big difference between simply moving a painting from one art gallery in Paris to another one in Florence and reuniting parts of sculptures. For example, at the moment a huge statue of Poseidon has his upper part in London and his lower part in Athens.

- The Greeks have suggested joint curatorship of the sculptures through the establishment of a branch of the British Museum within sight of the Parthenon. Aesthetically, it would be a better place to view the complete sculptures than having pieces of them in the badly lit British Museum in London.

- This isn’t a whim. Although the modern campaign began in the 1980s, the Greeks first asked for the sculptures back during the reign of King Otto, who was their first monarch after the nation won independence in 1830.
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 6834
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by stuart torr on Sun Nov 02, 2014 5:20 pm

I think the Greeks are being far too generous where the Marbles are concerned, because as you have pointed out Ivan, Elgin was nothing but a wanton vandal was he not? especially when it comes to cutting a huge statue of Poseidon in half !! They must be re-united as a whole, in Athens I believe along with the rest of the Marbles.
Also it would not set such a precedence either, because as you pointed out Ivan, most of the other artifacts were actually paid for and not stolen.
avatar
stuart torr
Deceased

Posts : 3187
Join date : 2013-10-10
Age : 57
Location : Nottingham. England. UK.

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Nov 03, 2014 5:29 pm

"Elgin was nothing but a wanton vandal was he not?"

Like so many things, it depends upon your point of view. Reportedly, Elgin found that the Turkish soldiery then occupying Greece, were in process of defacing the statuary and carving graffiti on the marble, so he felt it necessary to "rescue" the stones for posterity.

People are still "rescuing" historical memorabilia from a skip.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11527
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by stuart torr on Tue Nov 04, 2014 8:48 pm

Well OW we will just have to agree to differ on this point will we not.
Then see what happens when our countries come to an agreement.
avatar
stuart torr
Deceased

Posts : 3187
Join date : 2013-10-10
Age : 57
Location : Nottingham. England. UK.

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by Ivan on Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:25 pm

Hmm, so if I think some thugs are about to vandalise my neighbour's car and I can get the car into my garage to deter them, can I keep the car or should I give it back to the neighbour when he asks for it?  
confused
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 6834
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by stuart torr on Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:31 pm

As I agree with the Marbles Ivan you give it back to your neighbour when he asks for it do you not?
avatar
stuart torr
Deceased

Posts : 3187
Join date : 2013-10-10
Age : 57
Location : Nottingham. England. UK.

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by Ivan on Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:57 pm

"The Greek government has a just cause and it is time the British Museum recognised this and returned the marbles to Greece. This is not just what we are saying, this is what the United Nations has said, the European Parliament has said, and in one opinion poll after another, this is what the British people have also demanded. A horseman has his head in Athens and body in London. The Greek God Poseidon has his torso separated between Greece and the UK. This means that nobody can celebrate the marbles united in the place that they come from, which is a monument that represents Greek ancient history, and the birthplace of our modern civilisation." (Amal Clooney, October, 2014)

avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 6834
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Should the Elgin Marbles be returned?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:25 pm

Oh, well, of course if the new wife of a Hollywood "star" says so, then it must happen.

Meanwhile, where is Egypt to store, conservate and display the returning volume of looted artefacts, and will the crooked dealers be prosecuted? Or Greece, or Syria, most of whom's national treasures disappeared under an American administration following 2002?

Be prepared for a very dirty international disagreement over a period of even more years.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11527
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by stuart torr on Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:38 pm

I have already said Ivan that the Marbles should be returned to Greece from whence they came, it just appears that OW is of a different opinion does it not.
avatar
stuart torr
Deceased

Posts : 3187
Join date : 2013-10-10
Age : 57
Location : Nottingham. England. UK.

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:45 pm

Yes, Stu, it does. Possession is nine-points of the Law. Discuss.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11527
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by Ivan on Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:45 pm

I accept that Mrs Clooney is a barrister and may well be being paid to take up the cause of returning the Elgin Marbles to Greece, but that makes the case neither more nor less valid.

For reasons I've stated earlier, I don't see why this should open the floodgates for a massive demand to return artefacts to their places of origin - and certainly not if the receiving country has nowhere to store them!

Why can't we, like good parents, just settle for joint custody in a branch of the British Museum within sight of the Parthenon?
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 6834
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:49 pm

When does a grave-robber turn into an archaeologist?
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11527
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by stuart torr on Tue Nov 04, 2014 10:57 pm

OW I have to laugh in a way at your determination to stick by your argument, yet also congratulate you too because I know you will not give up.
avatar
stuart torr
Deceased

Posts : 3187
Join date : 2013-10-10
Age : 57
Location : Nottingham. England. UK.

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:14 pm

On the one hand, THIS. On the other hand THAT, Stu. So when you've run out of hands, what are you going to do?

Stick to your principles is what.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11527
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by stuart torr on Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:21 pm

Laughing Laughing Laughing
avatar
stuart torr
Deceased

Posts : 3187
Join date : 2013-10-10
Age : 57
Location : Nottingham. England. UK.

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by Ivan on Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:17 pm

Amid sanctions, British Museum lends Russia controversial Elgin Marble

From an article by Richard Allen Greene, Susannah Cullinane and Teo Kermeliotis:-

As the United Kingdom continues to enforce sanctions on Russia over its actions in Ukraine, the British Museum has announced it is lending one of the controversial Elgin Marbles to a St. Petersburg museum.

Greek Prime Minister Antonis Samaras described it as "a provocation to the Greek people. The Parthenon and its sculptures have been looted. The value of the sculptures is priceless. We Greeks identify with our history and culture, which cannot be fragmented, loaned or bestowed."

Earlier this year, UNESCO said it had received a request from Greece to mediate in the dispute with Britain over the Elgin Marbles. In October, the agency said it had not yet received a response to an official letter sent to the British government and the British Museum.


http://edition.cnn.com/2014/12/05/world/europe/uk-elgin-marbles-russia/
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 6834
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by stuart torr on Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:35 pm

This loaning of the Elgin Marble statue is very antagonistic towards the Greek peoples, and they should be returned to Greece immediately, or Britain will face sanctions of some kind I do believe.
avatar
stuart torr
Deceased

Posts : 3187
Join date : 2013-10-10
Age : 57
Location : Nottingham. England. UK.

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:37 pm

If the Elgin Marbles were to be sent back to Greece, I forecast with total confidence that it would not be at the expense of the Greek government or People.

avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11527
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by stuart torr on Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:18 am

No OW IT would be at our expense one presumes.
avatar
stuart torr
Deceased

Posts : 3187
Join date : 2013-10-10
Age : 57
Location : Nottingham. England. UK.

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:00 pm

.... and then something like THIS happens:



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28191181

How Syria's ancient treasures are being smashed
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11527
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Mar 08, 2015 7:13 pm



avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11527
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by boatlady on Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:12 pm

I really had hoped the human race might have grown out of that sort of thing
avatar
boatlady
Administrator (Global Moderator)

Posts : 3592
Join date : 2012-08-24
Location : Norfolk

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by Ivan on Sun Mar 08, 2015 10:34 pm

Yes, ISIS has destroyed thousands of books and manuscripts in Mosul libraries and is now looting and demolishing the ancient Assyrian city of Nimrud. Eradicating a society’s history is tantamount to destroying its memory, which suits the ISIS mindset; nothing prior to the year 622, during which the emigration of Muhammad from Mecca to Medina occurred, has any value to the evil bastards who support that murderous movement. However, ISIS has also slaughtered thousands of innocent people, and I wonder how many of those who are now justifiably condemning this sickening vandalism have taken the same stance over the appalling loss of human life? Aren’t people always more important than inanimate objects?

I’m not quite sure what the point of all this is on a thread about the Elgin Marbles, unless it’s to advocate removing artefacts from their natural homeland to save them from invaders, whether it be ISIS in Syria or the Turks in Greece in the early 19th century. It can hardly be justified as a reason for not returning the Elgin Marbles to Greece now; despite what the right-wing media might tell us, Syriza can’t exactly be equated with ISIS!
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 6834
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Mar 08, 2015 11:20 pm

Syriza finance minister Yanis Varoufakis might be wondering how much Greece would need to spend on a careful restoration of the Elgin Marbles to their original setting in the Akropolis.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11527
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by marcolucco on Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:03 pm

Those who know best about the value of the Elgin Marbles would say that they have been remarkably well cared for; the purpose of preserving them has nothing to do with Athenian Democracy or Greek monetary problems - they are safer where they are than where they would be if returned to Greece. It is possible that had they remained there they would be crumbling now. Before pronouncing philosophically, perhaps one should consult archaeologists.

avatar
marcolucco

Posts : 256
Join date : 2015-11-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by Ivan on Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:59 pm

Hmm. Are you implying that it might be okay to steal something as long as you look after it better than the rightful owner?

This issue matters a lot to many Greeks, and I believe that the best solution would be joint curatorship of the sculptures in a branch of the British Museum within sight of the Parthenon.
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 6834
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by marcolucco on Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:31 pm

Are you implying that it might be okay to steal something as long as you look after it better than the rightful owner?
I suppose there are circumstances where such an action is correct. If we move from the Platonic theoretical into practicalities, it is a question of something from antiquity being preserved for future generations who might, in fact, have no regard for concepts such as Greece , Afghanistan, America or Asia. In history there were many conquests in the course of which goods were taken. It would be silly to attempt to ask Brennus, for instance, to return the Roman gold he stole. It was silly of Pope John Paul 11 to apologise for the crusades; at that period in history there was some justification for them but we who are alive centuries on have no right to make apologies. A similar apology might have been expected from those who stormed the Middle East and Asia to make forcible conversions to Islam. If we want to re-write history then we must depose our rather efficient sovereign and return a Stuart heir.

But if we move away from reality into moral philosophy then it's a good debate. Best wishes.
avatar
marcolucco

Posts : 256
Join date : 2015-11-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:39 pm

Everything in the British Museum, including the Elgin Marbles, can be seen on a computer screen near you - wherever you are, including Greece.

http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/collection_online/search.aspx?searchText=elgin+marbles
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11527
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by marcolucco on Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:54 pm

You are invariably right, often wrong.

May I say, in passing, that the image with which you challenge us creates in me feelings of such enormous compassion that I am constantly moving to my wallet by way of response. I hope you are eating well.
avatar
marcolucco

Posts : 256
Join date : 2015-11-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by oftenwrong on Mon Nov 16, 2015 11:24 pm

Thank you marcolucco for your kind concern. Although my resources don't quite reach to a TW10 postcode, I haven't needed recourse to the bins behind Sainsbury's for nourishment, though of course we have yet to receive Gideon Osborne's early Christmas blessings, so I might then have to let the under-butler go.

avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11527
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by marcolucco on Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:10 am

Thank you, often wrong, for the thoughtful message regarding your welfare; I am considerably relieved that, as yet, you are not foraging in food bins. I can now worry about the Elgin Marbles without fretting in your direction. So pleased.

( I suspect you are a fan of Downton Abbey. )
avatar
marcolucco

Posts : 256
Join date : 2015-11-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by Ivan on Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:27 pm

(We have a personal messaging system for members wishing to chat to each other. Thanks.)

Returning the Elgin Marbles to Greece might gain us a few more votes in the Eurovision Song Contest, though I’m not sure if that’s a good or bad thing….  Rolling Eyes

These are some of the usual arguments for returning the sculptures:-

- Thomas Bruce, the British ambassador in Istanbul in 1801, did not have the legal right to remove them from the Parthenon. Officially, Elgin obtained a ‘firman’ from the Ottoman authorities, but when Parliament asked to examine it, he couldn’t submit it.

- Precedent: Los Angeles, Heidelberg University and the Vatican have all returned artefacts to Greece.

- If the sculptures were exhibited in the new Acropolis Museum, visitors could appreciate them in their original environment, in sight of the Parthenon and close to other ancient Athenian sites.

- According to a poll conducted in Britain by Ipsos-Mori in 2008, 69% of those asked were in favour of returning the sculptures, 13% were against. Another poll, for ‘The Guardian’ in February 2014, suggested that 88% of British people (after hearing a statement from George Clooney on the subject) support the return of the sculptures to Greece.

http://www.elginism.com/new-acropolis-museum/eight-reasons-why-the-elgin-marbles-should-be-returned-to-greece/20090225/1754/

http://www.elginism.com/elgin-marbles/guardian-poll-shows-17-every-20-people-support-return-marbles/20140217/7281/

P.S. If you want issues that tend to be more philosophical, this board might be of interest:-
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/f32-general-political-and-economic-issues
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 6834
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by marcolucco on Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:54 pm

If George Clooney wants the Elgin Marbles returned there is no more to say. The healthy economy that is modern Greece will certainly look after them better than, say, ISIS.

As for mister man-in-the-street being asked for an opinion..... why not have him perform heart surgery?

avatar
marcolucco

Posts : 256
Join date : 2015-11-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:24 pm

safe·keeping.
[ˌsāfˈkēpiNG]  NOUN
1.preservation in a safe place:
"she'd put her wedding ring in her purse for safekeeping"
Oxford Dictionaries · © Oxford University Press



Discussion about The Elgin Marbles would not be taking place at all had they been left where they were in Turkish-occupied Greece during expansion of the Ottoman Empire.

Contemporary British society hasn't chosen to rebuild Coventry Cathedral and many other "heritage" buildings that were lost during WW2.










avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11527
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by marcolucco on Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:31 pm

I bet there is some tenuous connection between a wedding ring, Coventry Cathedral and the Elgin Marbles but I just can't see it. I will keep trying.











avatar
marcolucco

Posts : 256
Join date : 2015-11-06

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by Ivan on Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:16 pm

As for mister man-in-the-street being asked for an opinion..... why not have him perform heart surgery?
That sounds like both a logical fallacy and an argument against democracy. Surely there’s a world of difference between having a life-saving skill and holding an opinion on whether or not stolen goods should be returned to their owners?
avatar
Ivan
Administrator (Correspondence & Recruitment)

Posts : 6834
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : West Sussex, UK

http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk

Back to top Go down

Re: Should the Elgin Marbles be returned to Greece?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum